MaxInDHouse:

Guy the Bible said both of them are PROPHETS {Deuteronomy 18:18-19} Moses used animals because no human blood can blot out sin since we are all born in sin as descendants of Adam {Psalms 49:7-9 compare to Romans 3:23} only one who isn't a descendant of Adam and has not inherited sin could offer his own perfect human life to redeem mankind.
That's why God's word equate Jesus and Adam {1Corinthians 15:45} because it's through one perfect man all humans inherited sin so it's through one perfect man that our sins could be removed! 1Corinthians 15:21
So they are equal as prophets but when it comes to their makeup Jesus is a perfect man who didn't inherit sin while Moses is a descendants of Adam!

MightySparrow:

You are not far from the truth
Phil.2.5 - Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phil.2.6 - Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phil.2.7 - But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
and
Exod.7.1 - And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
Note the bolded any differences?

MaxInDHouse:


These are the works of translators the title has nothing to do with upper or lower case whether you write GOD or God or god all has the same pronunciation so they all mean the same thing the only difference is who the Gods are in person Jesus is God's Son!

MightySparrow:

We are talking of the essence here. The godship of Moses and that of Moses are they the same?

MightySparrow:


You are not far from the truth

Phil.2.5 - Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phil.2.6 - Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phil.2.7 - But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:


and

Exod.7.1 - And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

Note the bolded any differences?

John 14:28, did Jesus teach Sparrow that Jesus is equal with God his Father?

In heaven,@ Revelation 3:12 did Jesus teach Sparrow that Jesus is equal to God?

You dey quote Textus Receptus Trinitarian TWISTING of Philippians 2:6

Go study Phillipians 2:6 Mounce Greek interlinear bible & receive Sense

AbuTwins:


What does prosekynēsan mean in Greek that New Testament was translated from?
It means to fawn or crouch to, i.e. prostrate oneself in homage.

When you do that for God is it not worship or what else can it mean?

A final example for you to check out:
“At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ Matthew 18:26

Same word prosekynei is used in the verse above again translated as fell on his kneel!

Assuming Jesus was involved it will also be worshipped!

Is it not clearly dubious?

AbuTwins:


These are what you should tell your parents so that you stop worshipping them right?

Why didn't Jesus stop them from falling down for him?
Because Jesus is a messenger of God!

And messengers of God are His representative on Earth!

The word Shachah and Proskuneo aaccounts for more than 80% of what is translated as worship in the old testament and New Testament.

Example
Then the LORD said to Moses, “Come up to the LORD, you and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. You are to worship (shachah) at a distance Exodus 24:1

Whenever the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the entrance to the tent, they all stood and worshipped (shachah), each at the entrance to their tent. Exodus 33:10

The same worship (Shachah) is used below for humans:

Genesis 19:1 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. Lot worshipped Angels!

Exodus 18:7 So Moses went out to meet his father-in-law and bowed down and kissed him. They greeted each other and then went into the tent. Moses worshiped his in law and kissed him! Na same Kiss o!

Genesis 23:7 Then Abraham rose and bowed down before the people of the land, the Hittites. Abraham dey worship humans!

Genesis 33:3 Then Jacob went on ahead. As he approached his brother, he bowed to the ground seven times before him. Jacob worshiped his brother!

Genesis 42:6 Now Joseph was the governor of the land, the person who sold grain to all its people. So when Joseph’s brothers arrived, they bowed down to him with their faces to the ground. Joseph's family worshipped him!

Matthew 18:26 “At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ Is this worship too?

1 Kings 1:23 And the king was told, “Nathan the prophet is here.” So he went before the king and bowed with his face to the ground. Is this worship too?

2 Samuel 14:22 Joab fell with his face to the ground to pay him honor, and he blessed the king. Joab said, “Today your servant knows that he has found favor in your eyes, my lord the king, because the king has granted his servant’s request.” Is this worship too?

1 Samuel 24:8 Then David went out of the cave and called out to Saul, “My lord the king!” When Saul looked behind him, David bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground. David worshipped Saul!

1 Kings 1:53 Then King Solomon sent men, and they brought him down from the altar. And Adonijah came and bowed down to King Solomon, and Solomon said, “Go to your home.” Adonijah worshipped Solomon too!

So people worshipped Solomon, Saul, and many others! It is not only Jesus!
But the hypocrisy is that only Jesus's own will be translated as worship others will be translated as bow down, Kneel down, fell down, etc.
And the same word is translated!

SIRTee15:


Let me ask U a question.
According to the Koran, if Jesus is indeed the son of God, should he be worshipped?.

Ken4Christ:


You did not answer the question. Why was the same word used when worship was directed to God the Father.

In Matthew 4:4. The word worship is from the same source.

In Revelation 4:10 & 5:14, it's also from the same Creek word. Your argument has failed.

Common sense should tell you that Jesus is the Son of God and by inference, God in nature. Like begat like.

No man slept with Mary before he was born. So, he is not the Son of Joseph.

If he is not the Son of Joseph, he must be someone's Son. Use your small brain.

AbuTwins:


1. God does not need a son or helper in His dominion as He is All-Powerful to do all things!
2. Only Allah (God, the creator of All) alone deserves our entire worship!
3. God does not become man!
4. God does not debase Himself. He is at all times greater than all His creations!

AbuTwins:


It is simple!

God called himself God many times in the old testament!
Even Jesus directed all worship to the father by saying "Our Father who is in heaven....(never on earth).

How many times did Jesus prayed to God in the Bible?

He never for once without ambiguity call himself God!

If Jesus is the son of God!
And Sons of God came to have sex with daughters of men in Genesis 6:1-4!
Was Jesus among them then?

So Son of God can only be a metaphor!

AbuTwins:


1. God does not need a son or helper in His dominion as He is All-Powerful to do all things!
2. Only Allah (God, the creator of All) alone deserves our entire worship!
3. God does not become man!
4. God does not debase Himself. He is at all times greater than all His creations!

AbuTwins:


These are what you should tell your parents so that you stop worshipping them right?

Why didn't Jesus stop them from falling down for him?
Because Jesus is a messenger of God!

And messengers of God are His representative on Earth!

The word Shachah and Proskuneo aaccounts for more than 80% of what is translated as worship in the old testament and New Testament.

Example
Then the LORD said to Moses, “Come up to the LORD, you and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. You are to worship (shachah) at a distance Exodus 24:1

Whenever the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the entrance to the tent, they all stood and worshipped (shachah), each at the entrance to their tent. Exodus 33:10

The same worship (Shachah) is used below for humans:

Genesis 19:1 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. Lot worshipped Angels!

Exodus 18:7 So Moses went out to meet his father-in-law and bowed down and kissed him. They greeted each other and then went into the tent. Moses worshiped his in law and kissed him! Na same Kiss o!

Genesis 23:7 Then Abraham rose and bowed down before the people of the land, the Hittites. Abraham dey worship humans!

Genesis 33:3 Then Jacob went on ahead. As he approached his brother, he bowed to the ground seven times before him. Jacob worshiped his brother!

Genesis 42:6 Now Joseph was the governor of the land, the person who sold grain to all its people. So when Joseph’s brothers arrived, they bowed down to him with their faces to the ground. Joseph's family worshipped him!

Matthew 18:26 “At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ Is this worship too?

1 Kings 1:23 And the king was told, “Nathan the prophet is here.” So he went before the king and bowed with his face to the ground. Is this worship too?

2 Samuel 14:22 Joab fell with his face to the ground to pay him honor, and he blessed the king. Joab said, “Today your servant knows that he has found favor in your eyes, my lord the king, because the king has granted his servant’s request.” Is this worship too?

1 Samuel 24:8 Then David went out of the cave and called out to Saul, “My lord the king!” When Saul looked behind him, David bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground. David worshipped Saul!

1 Kings 1:53 Then King Solomon sent men, and they brought him down from the altar. And Adonijah came and bowed down to King Solomon, and Solomon said, “Go to your home.” Adonijah worshipped Solomon too!

So people worshipped Solomon, Saul, and many others! It is not only Jesus!
But the hypocrisy is that only Jesus's own will be translated as worship others will be translated as bow down, Kneel down, fell down, etc.
And the same word is translated!

SIRTee15:


Old testament was written in Hebrew whilst new testament in greek. The lexicon, usage and application of word in both languages are different.
How proskyneson could be applied is different from shachah.

That's why I'm asking U why did Peter and the angel rejected worship- proskyneson within the realm it was applied whereas Jesus was collecting it up and down.

That's my question, don't deviate. If U don't know, say I don't know.
If U want to talk about worship in the old testament, open a thread for that and we will meet to give u
some lectures in ancient Hebrew language.

Ken4Christ:


Jesus prayed to God because he was human on earth.

Jesus off course claimed to be God in many occasions.

1. When he said, : before Abraham was I Am.

2. When he forgave sins. Can ordinary human forgive sin.

3. When he called God his Father. Not even Moses or Elijah addressed God as their father.

4. When he said, he who has seen me has seen the Father.

5. When he said that he is the first and last.

6. When he said he will send down the Holy Spirit. Which mortal man has the power to send down the Holy Spirit. Remember that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God.

7. When he accepted worship on several occasions.

I could go on and on.

Yes, there were angels called sons of God. But Jesus is the only incarnate son of God or the only begotten Son of God. And he also became the first begotten from the dead.

AbuTwins:
You inferred this. He was human born through the vagina, was breast fed, cried, was even protected by humans!

This is a misinterpretation from your Bible translators. Ego Eimi occurs in many places in the New Testament but only in John 8:58 was it translated as I am!

Prophets of God can intercede for humans to seek God's forgiveness!

So if you call your dad father then you become equal to him? How does this make sense to you?

So if i send you a message at a time when there was no SMS, internet, phones, etc, is seeing the messenger not the same as seeing the sender of the message?

Jesus forgot to say this when he was walking around preaching to people! Na John come dey see things for vision!

So if God sent Jesus message that means Jesus is not God! If Jesus too can send Holy spirit message then that means the three are not coequal. They don't have equal power! So God is not the son nor the spirit!

He never accepted worship but homage! Many other men of God accepted such homage like Joseph whose whole family worshipped him.

Give us a Bible verse that describes Jesus as only incarnate son of God? Abeg John 3:16 didn't say incarnate son o!

How can son of God = God?

I know you guys are desperate to make Jesus God!
But he is simply human!

RightChannel:


No long thing since Quran says Jesus Christ is the word of God. The question is how can your word be you, can you separate your word from yourself?

AbuTwins:
The thread is not restricted to the New Testament.
I know the new testament was created to make Jesus God!
But we'll keep exposing the falsehood and the liars!

AbuTwins:


Your premise is essentially wrong!

The Qur'an says Jesus is the word of God!
Allah says: Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was. Qur'an 3:59

So the word is "Be" and he was.

The Qur'an is the speech of Allah!
And if anyone of the Mushrikun (polytheists, idolaters, pagans, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) seeks your protection then grant him protection, so that he may hear the Word of Allah (the Quran), and then escort him to where he can be secure, that is because they are men who know not. (Qur'an 9:6)

The Injeel is the Speech of Allah!
The Torah is the Speech of Allah!
Allah, may He be Exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Do you (faithful believers) covet that they will believe in your religion in spite of the fact that a party of them (Jewish rabbis) used to hear the Word of Allah (Torah), then they used to change it knowingly after they understood it?” [Al-Baqarah 2:75]

Allah said (interpretation of the meaning): “The Scriptures of Ibrahim (Abraham) and Musa (Moses)” [Al-A`la 87:19]

They are separate from Him!

RightChannel:


Quran says Jesus Christ is the word of God and the spirit, can you separate your word and spirit from yourself? Is your word and spirit not you?

This time around no story, answer either Yes or No

Emusan:


You knew New Testament was created to make Jesus God

Which means you know Jesus is God according to the New Testament.

Yet you want to expose the falsehood by using NT. Does it make sense to you?

AbuTwins:


Yes!

The Qur'an is the word of Allah and it is separate from Allah!

RightChannel:


See where ignorance ended you

Is Quran the spirit of allah? Can you separate your own word and spirit from yourself?

With that unanswered question, it is clear why Jesus Christ is God as he is the word and spirit of God

AbuTwins:


Adam is not God to you! You just want to make Jesus God sha!

Allah says: Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was. Qur'an 3:59

RightChannel:


Is Adam the spirit of God as Jesus Christ is the spirit of God in Quran 4:171?

AbuTwins:
I never restricted the thread in the first place!

Starting from the NT doesn't restrict me to it.

Yes, the NT especially the Book of John was tailored to make Jesus God!

AbuTwins:


Basically yes!

"So, when I have fashioned him completely and breathed into him (Adam) the soul (Ruh) which I created for him, then fall (you) down prostrating yourselves unto him." Qur'an 15:29

In fact every human created is.

Emusan:


I never said you did.

The point is you acknowledge that NT makes Jesus to be God.

Good! Which means Jesus is God according to the New Testament.

RightChannel:



Jesus Christ is the Spirit of God, he is not created as a case of Adam

So far you can't separate your word and spirit from yourself, is Jesus Christ not the spirit and word of God for arguing blindly?

AbuTwins:
It was tailored, translated and retranslated to make Jesus God!

Where is Jesus God in it?

You have to translate and retranslate one verse with the trinitarian believe to get that!

AbuTwins:


Allah says they are similar!

Even in your Bible the Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary!

Jesus was created just as Adam through God's spirit!

If you call Jesus God, Adam should be bigger than Jesus as Jesus had a mother!

Emusan:


So do you have the one not tailored, translated and retranslated that didn't make Jesus God to compare with the one we have now?

I will tell you when we establish some facts.

Now, you're changing mouth.

Your initial point was that the New Testament (Not Bible version) was created to make Jesus God.

Basically, it's only TRINITARIAN Bible that make Jesus God and not the MANUSCRIPTS we have in possession today. Is that correct?