samuk:
...

I know you get it, you understand what history is, but it seems many of our brothers just can't make the intellectual effort.
It is not that they have bad intentions or that they are not trying to defend our cultural heritage, it is just that they refuse to evolve intellectually and remain stuck at a semi-literate state which was the norm around 60 years ago.
How on hell do people still believe those fairytales in 2024 ?

Guys listen well: there was no odudiwa, there was no oranmiyan, all these are stories like Peter Pan story, like spider man story...

I tried to teach this to our media savvy brother (I won't say his name to avoid backlash on him, but I think you know whom I'm talking about), he ended up insulting me on facebook, for the crime of trying to bring education to him.

@UMUAZEE
The thing which people like you fail to understand is the concept of "unknown past". You guys seem to believe that whatever happened in the past must be known today by people born several hundred years after that past ?

I don't know if you've followed the hard work which specialists do in order to unearth the past of Egypt. Yet you think you and "elders" can just as easily as that unearth the history of Benin, without doing any work ?

And in the case of Egypt, the Egyptians have had a written language for more than 2000 years !
Reading the scriptures left behind is what constitutes the history of Egypt.

History needs eyewitness written documents, that is the basis of history ! Benin has a history which started around the 1400's: that means eyewitness written documents describing Benin were written as early as the 1400's. It doesn't mean we didn't exist prior to the 1400's. Stop trying to fill the unknown past with fairytales! That is just nonsense!
(The yoruba do not have any history, that is why they are pretending fairytales are their history)
Our known past (History: based on eyewitness written documents) is too long for us to be wasting time on fairytales about unknown past which would be more than 600 years backward !

Guys listen well: there was no odudiwa, there was no oranmiyan, all these are stories like Peter Pan story, like spider man story...

This is 2024, for God's sake.

AnambraPikinSel:


Tame ooni of ife?what is there to be obsessed about inferior Yoruba king called Oku opolo in Benin palace? We don't come to your palace to claim anything,your people came to ile ife because they know their Origin yet you still audacity to blame us.

Authenticity check:
1. Locate bight of Ife
2. Locate Ife republic.
3. Show me a precolonial map of Ife
4. What battle against the British did Ife do ?
5. Show me the ancient palace of Ife ?

Even your own brothers admitted on nairaland that Ife is just a place which the yoruba chose in awolowo's era as their "source". It has nothing to do with actual history, it is just politics. The oni of ife is just a priest with a small priest-dom called ife.

Benin Empire and even oyo kingdom have many such priests and the oni was just one of such priests under the alafin of oyo.

The oni isn't even fit to be a king, but you guys want to call him emperor 🤣
And you want to compare him with an actual emperor whose treasures are still sitting in multiple museums accros western Europe and America ?

If you want to locate oni of ife's crown, look at the picture below:

Benin, a true emperor, a true history.
Not the 419 yarri.ba monarchy and "history".
https://uniquemaps.eu/products/rare-old-map-of-africa-1747-by-emanuel-bowen-pre-colonial-handcoloured-slave-trade-negroland-ethiopia-barbary-nubia?currency=EUR&variant=43501503971558&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&cmp_id=21218862151&adg_id=&kwd=&device=m&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw57exBhAsEiwAaIxaZq1XzZWLmjRymmGc7jWcpTKshT4k9mklhU4qkyzGkSRh9qVqrw4XnxoC9ZIQAvD_BwE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aELM8h_euNI?feature=shared

Ghostagain:

I'm not using kid's gloves with you anymore.
You don't know what history is.
Your intellectual laziness is killing our culture !
"History" and "past" are two different things.
Everybody has a past ! But not everybody has a history ! Do you understand that ?
History is a bunch of events which are proven, not a bunch of fairytales told by story tellers describing a period of time which is hundreds of years before their birth.

You can't understand this because you are not using your brain fully. You believe "elders" have magical powers to do some time travel and see what took place hundreds of years before they were born ?
History is the study of eyewitness-written documents. You don't need to be a genius to understand this.

This is 2024 and your brain is stuck in 1970. Your brain is lazy, very lazy.

You sound a bit off.. you need to calm down, don't let your frustration get the better of you.
You cannot separate History and past as 2 different things.They are both connected, History is on going discussions based on past events. In other words, History relies on the Past.
Like you said, everyone has a past, if they decide to document their past it becomes history.
History is NOT the study of eyewitness-written documents like you implied. It is simply the study of past events. And it is oral account that we study to be able to know and understand our history.

If I may ask you, when did your history start?

Please stop confusing yourself, you need to calm down.

UMUAZEE:


Like you said, everyone has a past, if they decide to document their past it becomes history.

You still don't get it. You can't wake up today and start documenting things which took place 600 years ago.
You need to be an eyewitness to the era which you are describing for your "documentation" to be historical.

You still can't understand that there is a known past and an unknown one. The known past is known thanks to eyewitness-written documents. The unknown past is unknown due to lack of such documents for that period of time.

You seem to believe in magic 🪄, how else would you have "oral accounts" of a period of time which is located more than 600 years in the past ? You are confusing mere stories no different from science fiction or fantastic novels with actual history and actual past.

The fact you think you are as educated and intellectually actif as me is a little bit insulting to say the least. I'm trying to educate you and you seem to believe I'm debating you.

In 2024, there is no excuse for you to not be past the semi-literate phase.

Ghostagain:
@UMUAZEE
The thing which people like you fail to understand is the concept of "unknown past". You guys seem to believe that whatever happened in the past must be known today by people born several hundred years after that past ?

I don't know if you've followed the hard work which specialists do in order to unearth the past of Egypt. Yet you think you and "elders" can just as easily as that unearth the history of Benin, without doing any work ?

And in the case of Egypt, the Egyptians have had a written language for more than 2000 years !
Reading the scriptures left behind is what constitutes the history of Egypt.

History needs eyewitness written documents, that is the basis of history ! Benin has a history which started around the 1400's: that means eyewitness written documents describing Benin were written as early as the 1400's. It doesn't mean we didn't exist prior to the 1400's. Stop trying to fill the unknown past with fairytales! That is just nonsense!
(The yoruba do not have any history, that is why they are pretending fairytales are their history)
Our known past (History: based on eyewitness written documents) is too long for us to be wasting time on fairytales about unknown past which would be more than 600 years backward !

You need to understand that history is not fixed. It is an ongoing study and always subject to change.

Will you now say Ogisos did not exist or Igodomigodo is a fairytale because the Europeans did not meet them?

Like i said earlier, our history did not start with the coming of the Europeans, it is way older than that. Oral history may not be the best firm of history but it is also considered history.

UMUAZEE:


You need to understand that history is not fixed. It is an ongoing study and always subject to change.

Will you now say Ogisos did not exist or Igodomigodo is a fairytale because the Europeans did not meet them?

Like i said earlier, our history did not start with the coming of the Europeans, it is way older than that. Oral history may not be the best firm of history but it is also considered history.

Ogiso never existed, igodomigodo never existed. Are you listening to me at all ?
Why are you so stubborn?
I have given you the definition of history, but it doesn't seem to enter your brain as you reveal that you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

You don't seem to understand that your ogiso and other fairytales are not backed by any proof ! And you seem to be saying "just because there is no proof, are you going to deny they existed ?"

Ghostagain:


The fact you think you are as educated and intellectually actif as me is a little bit insulting to say the least. I'm trying to educate you and you seem to believe I'm debating you.

Really you make me laugh.
Leave the intellectual or educated talk on the side, we are not competing about that else you find yourself in last position.

Your idea of history or when you believe history started is the bone of contention here..

@UMUAZEE
Giving education to people like you is like battling a lion, your cognitive dissonance acts like an antivirus which identifies education as virus and eliminates it.

UMUAZEE:


Really you make me laugh.
Leave the intellectual or educated talk on the side, we are not competing about that else you find yourself in last position.

Your idea of history or when you believe history started is the bone of contention here..

What don't you understand in the simple words which I spoke ?
Your history starts at the period in which the first document mentioning you was written. Is this so hard to understand?

Ghostagain:

Ogiso never existed, igodomigodo never existed. Are you listening to me at all ?
Why are you so stubborn?
I have given you the definition of history, but it doesn't seem to enter your brain as you reveal that you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

You don't seem to understand that your ogiso and other fairytales are not backed by any proof ! And you seem to be saying "just because there is no proof, are you going to deny they existed ?"

You don't understand the meaning and purpose of history.
History is also the study of those things you call fairytales and "fairytales" accounts for a large part of history books you see.
Ogisos and Igodomigodo were real.

@samuk, can you speak some senses into this brother ?
Did God curse us (the black man) with stupidity ?
You see this guy who can't reason above the capacity of a 10 year old, and this is supposedly an adult.

God have mercy.

Ghostagain:

What don't you understand in the simple words which I said ?
Your history starts at the period in which the first document mentioning you was written. Is this so hard to understand?

What you don't understand is that my history goes beyond what you believe to be the beginning of my history. It did not start in the 14th century like you implied.

I have a strong firewall against foolishness emanating from you.

You try to gift these guys some education and they want to fight you in response.

Ghostagain:
@samuk, can you speak some senses into this brother ?
Did God curse us (the black man) with stupidity ?
You see this guy who can't reason above the capacity of a 10 year old, and this is supposedly an adult.

God have mercy.

Unless you and @samuk is the same, nobody will subscribe to this nonsense you are saying.

UMUAZEE:


Unless you and @samuk is the same, nobody will subscribe to this nonsense you are saying.

Brother, you are dumb, your intelligence is that of a child.
And you won't ever be smarter until you change your attitude.
Unfortunately Africa is filled with brothers like you, and that is why Africa is incapable of developing.
Our ancestors were much smarter than this. Colonization really destroyed the psyche of the black man.

Ghostagain:


Our ancestors were much smarter than this. Colonization really destroyed the psyche of the black man.

Which ancestors are you talking about? The ones before the coming of the Europeans or the ones after the Europeans came? You said anything before the Europeans came is null and void abi?

May frustration not be the end of you bro..

UMUAZEE:


Which ancestors are you talking about? The ones before the coming of the Europeans or the ones after the Europeans came? You said anything before the Europeans came is null and void abi?

May frustration not be the end of you bro..

You keep exposing your comprehension problems.
As I already said, there is a known past and an uknown one.
History is the known past and it is known due to the fact it is on eyewitness-written documents.
I even stressed that the beginning of your history is not the beginning of your existence.
We did have ancestors who lived before the beginning of our history. (Actually most of our ancestors lived before the Beginning of our history)

Your brain is basically that of a 10 year old.

UMUAZEE:


What you don't understand is that my history goes beyond what you believe to be the beginning of my history. It did not start in the 14th century like you implied.

I have a strong firewall against foolishness emanating from you.

I guess your firewall also stopped you from knowing that the 1400's is actually the 15th century, not the 14th.
I think 10 year old kids must be feeling insulted that I compare you to them.

Ghostagain:

You keep exposing your comprehension problems.
As I already said, there is a known past and an uknown one.
History is the known past and it is known due to the fact it is on eyewitness-written documents.
I even stressed that the beginning of your history is not the beginning of your existence.
We did have ancestors who lived before the beginning of our history.

Your brain is basically that of a 10 year old.

The era of Ogisos and Igodomigodo is known past. It may be unknown to you or maybe you just refuse to accept it. What is fairytale to you is history to others. You are alone in your foolish conviction.

If there is no eyewitness-written account, there is eyewitness-oral account.

Are you going to say because the Europeans weren't around during the time of Oba Eweka 1 then he did not exit, its just fairytales?
There's always some levels of truth in oral history even though some aspects may change overtime.

Ghostagain:

I guess your firewall also stopped you from knowing that the 1400's is actually the 15th century, not the 14th.
I think 10 year old kids must be feeling insulted that I compare you to them.

You continually sound like a frustrated person filled with despair.
Go learn proper history and stop coming on here with nonsense.

Ghostagain:

Authenticity check:
1. Locate bight of Ife
2. Locate Ife republic.
3. Show me a precolonial map of Ife
4. What battle against the British did Ife do ?
5. Show me the ancient palace of Ife ?

Even your own brothers admitted on nairaland that Ife is just a place which the yoruba chose in awolowo's era as their "source". It has nothing to do with actual history, it is just politics. The oni of ife is just a priest with a small priest-dom called ife.

Benin Empire and even oyo kingdom have many such priests and the oni was just one of such priests under the alafin of oyo.

The oni isn't even fit to be a king, but you guys want to call him emperor 🤣
And you want to compare him with an actual emperor whose treasures are still sitting in multiple museums accros western Europe and America ?

If you want to locate oni of ife's crown, look at the picture below:

Benin Empire or igodomigodo empire? Emperor wey dey worship Ogun, sango and olokun all are Yoruba people

Ghostagain:
@samuk, can you speak some senses into this brother ?

UMUAZEE:
Unless you and @samuk is the same, nobody will subscribe to this nonsense you are saying.

People on a forum like this fall into different categories and personalities.

Oduduwa:

1. Why was the myth of Oduduwa created
2. Why did the Benin Palace promote it, what are the present/future benefits to the Edo nation.
3. Why didn't Oduduwa, Ife and Oranmiyan appear in Benin eyewitness historical accounts before 1897.
4. What happened to independent Benin between 1897 and 1963.

Myths are created by people for reasons. We must be careful not to lose our audience in the process of deconstructing such Myths for academic purposes.

Some Myths do play a vital role in the political and economic relevance of people and places. We have all kinds of Saints across Europe playing various roles in the lives of nations.

Oduduwa was created for the unity of the former Western region of Nigeria, which Benin was part.

People will contribute to topics based on their level of knowledge of that particular subject, not necessarily because they are stupid or dumb. They may not just know enough and we shouldn't lose their audience in trying to provide them more information about the subject matter.

Any body that feel insulted will not want to listen to your point of view no matter how important it maybe.

Ghostagain:

You have made valuable contribution in the academic discussion of Benin history over the years and it will be a shame if your audience especially your compatriots see your style as condescending.

There are those that genuinely seek the truth no matter where it leads whilst there are others that are dogmatic in their views and beliefs.

Would you say that the billions of
Christians that believe the Virgin birth of Jesus are dumb and stupid?

Certain aspects of people's lives goes beyond academic explanations.

It takes logic and intelligence to see the logic and sense in the creation of some Myths and fairytales.

I believe we can find a way to let people know that there were no mention of Oduduwa, Ife and Oranmiyan in Benin history before 1897 without them feeling insulted.

AnambraPikinSel:



Benin Empire or igodomigodo empire? Emperor wey dey worship Ogun, sango and olokun all are Yoruba people

You guys just confuse your dreams with reality. The Oba of Benin doesn't worship Ogun or sango or olokun, the Gods of Benin and the ancestors of the Oba of Benin.
But you guys don't know anything about Benin, you just love to claim "Benin migrated from Ife" and to claim Benin tradition is a derivation of yoruba tradition. But you know next to nothing about Benin.
All you can do is talk about fairytales which are online.
Deep down you know your yoruba monarchy is fake. Benin is the true empire in the south all relevant kingdoms in the south were either part of Benin empire or in the case of oyo, reliant on the help of Benin empire.
Once again, oni is just an ordinary to priest.

@UMAZEE you are a certified fool. No need to continue the discussion with you.
I've tried to educate you for free, but your cognitive dissonance is too strong, you can't elevate your iq.
I think you know that I'm way more educated than yourself and you know I'm way smarter than you, but for some reason, you refuse to let me educate you. Cognitive dissonance is a dangerous thing.
Since you wish to remain at your low level of intellect, I will grant you your wish.

Ghostagain:
@UMAZEE you are a certified fool. No need to continue the discussion with you.
I've tried to educate you for free, but your cognitive dissonance is too strong, you can't elevate your iq.
I think you know that I'm way more educated than yourself and you know I'm way smarter than you, but for some reason, you refuse to let me educate you. Cognitive dissonance is a dangerous thing.
Since you wish to remain at your low level of intellect, I will grant you your wish.

You can never be wiser than me.
You posts/rants already show what level you operate on.
Like I said earlier, you are alone in your foolishness and that is very frustrating for you.

You claim to be Edo, but you don't know what being Edo is about. You have no comprehension of your true history/past and dismiss truths as fairytales..

Mind you, I don't agree with the Oduduwa or Oranmiyan fairytale, but saying Ogisos or Igodomigodo didn't exist because the Europeans didn't witness it is sheer stupidity on your part.