SIRTee15:


Jesus said I and the Father are one. That's same nature.


Another one...
John 5

17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but Jesus was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

I will come back later and explain divinity of Jesus and hypostatic union for you.
Its only fair U understand what we believe.
whether U accept or not is up to U.

Emusan:


This doesn't answer my question.

I can jump to anywhere or is it not the same issue we're addressing?

Emusan:


Let's recap from here, is the problem you have is BIBLE INTERPRETATION (which means you agree all Bible text are correct) or HOW NEW TESTAMENT WAS CREATED TO MAKE JESUS GOD?

SIRTee15:


Jesus himself use his mouth to say he was physically present in the old testament.

Matthew 22
41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?”

“The son of David,” they replied.

43 Jesus said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him ‘Lord’? For he says,

44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet.”’[e]

45 If then David calls the Messiah ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?” 46 No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.


Now Jesus was referring to psalm 110 in this passage and was making it clear David in the spirit saw the Messiah and wrote about him.

I think we will turn this debate into a bible study class for AbuTwin. We will teach him out bible and not the dawahgandist he's been trained to parrot in the mosque.

Here we will give him sound and true knowledge of our scriptures.
Hopefully one day he will join his nairaland Muslim colleague to admit and confess Jesus Christ is divine.

AbuTwins:


All of the above and more!

AbuTwins:


Sound and true knowledge of Scripture indeed!

1. Are you sure David wrote that Psalm cos the last time there was a claim that David didn't write a Psalm verse here.

2. Psalm 110:1
New International Version
Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”

In the above there are two people referred namely The LORD (Yahweh) and another my lord (la·ḏō·nî). Now it is common sense that adoni is used for man with authority as master or ruler not God which you claim Jesus was!

For Example in 1 Samuel 24:8, David called Saul his lord (adoni)
Then David went out of the cave and called out to Saul, “My lord (adoni) the king!” When Saul looked behind him, David bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.

Also Elisha's followers called him lord (adoni) in 2 Kings 2:19.
The people of the city said to Elisha, “Look, our lord, this town is well situated, as you can see, but the water is bad and the land is unproductive.”

Don't worry i know the NT tried to make Jesus God with this one too but the reference from the Old testament is clear on this!

Yahweh is the father!
Adoni is a man with authority not God!
This is busted!

cc: Emusan

AbuTwins:


What are the contexts of those verse?

Emusan:


For them to keep dodging these simple questions means they know what they are actually doing.

AbuTwins:
One of the flimsy reasons why Jesus is called God today was because people pay homage to him as a Prophet and man of God!

Here are some of the verses:

Matthew 28:9
And behold, Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!” And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him (prosekynēsan).

What does prosekynēsan mean in Greek that New Testament was translated from?
It means to fawn or crouch to, i.e. prostrate oneself in homage.

Why was "Worshipped" used above?
To make Jesus God!

Matthew 14:33
And those in the boat worshiped him(prosekynēsan), saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

Again what does prosekynēsan mean in Greek that New Testament was translated from?
It means to fawn or crouch to, i.e. prostrate oneself in homage.

Why was "Worshipped" used above?
To make Jesus God!

Matthew 2:11
And going into the house, they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him (prosekynēsan). Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.

Luke 24.52
And the disciples worshiped him (prosekynēsan) and returned to Jerusalem with great joy.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The man bowed (prosekynēsan) in front of Jesus and said, "I believe, Lord." John 9:38

What does prosekynēsan mean in Greek that New Testament was translated from?
It means to fawn or crouch to, i.e. prostrate oneself in homage.

It seems the Bible translators had been toying with many brains for long!

Finally when Jesus worshipped the father in Matthew 26:39, they never used worshipped even when it is clear that he was earnestly praying to someone greater than him!

Going a little farther, he (Jesus) fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

AbuTwins:


So Jesus is God in Human flesh and yet still worshipped God? Where did Jesus say he has the same nature of God in him?

Does it mean that the father and spirit too can become human and die like Jesus?

Is Jesus coequal with the father and Spirit? If yes, Prove it?

AbuTwins:

And more so, Abraham's sons are to be the nation of God! And truly, from Ismael came only Muhammad as the only Arab Prophet!
All nations had Prophets!

Antilslaam:


But your allah wish to have a son

Quran 39:4
If Allah had willed to choose a son, He could have chosen what He would of that which He hath created. Be He Glorified! He is Allah, the One, the Absolute.

Meanwhile your allah has daughters

Quran 37:153 Muhammad Asad
“He has chosen daughters in preference to sons”

Quran 37:153 Wahiduddin Khan
Has He chosen daughters over sons

Quran 37:153 Muhammad Ahmed & Samira
He chose/purified the daughters on/over the sons


AND THE DAUGTHERS ARE:

Quran 53:19-21
Have you then considered Lat and ‘Uzza And another, the third, Manat Are the males for you and for Him the females

Emusan:


So, by this statement "the New Testament was created to make Jesus God" you're referring to the whole New Testament right?

Lastly, do you mean the New Testament is fake all through?

AbuTwins:
Of course! The whole New testament was tailored to make Jesus divine. But the job was done woefully!

Even in anything fake there may still be some atom of truth!

"For example, Hear O Israel the Lord our God is one" is a true statement that is believed from time immemorial as a statement of Prophets.

Emusan:


You can see you're just going back and forth.

At first you wanted to pin it on TRANSLATION

Which means reading the New Testament one will conclude that Jesus is God.

So there are ATOM of truth in the New Testament yet your first sentence read "Of course, THE WHOLE OF New Testament was tailored to make Jesus Divine"

This shows the level of your confusion.

You enter this confusion because one part of mind still believes that Muhammad was mentioned in the same TAILORED New Testament.

Ken4Christ:


Yes, he is God in human flesh but he didn't function as God on earth. This is why he had to be anointed by the Holy Spirit to carry out his mission.

However, he was very conscious of his divinity and said it in many ways. But on earth, he functioned as a man empowered by the Holy Spirit.

On one occasion, he said, I and my father are one. This is one proof that he is equal with God in the very essence of his nature. He had the divine life of God flowing in his vein.

So as man on earth, he had to worship the Father.

Notice that before Jesus came, no one ever called God father. Not even the likes of Abraham, Moses, David, Elijah etc.

So, the Jews wanted to kill him for calling God is father. They knew what he meant. They accused him of making himself equal with God.

The Holy Spirit is also known as the Spirit of the father. In another place, he is called the Spirit of Christ. That shows the oneness in the Trinity.

On one occasion, he said that he will send the Holy Spirit from the Father. On another occasion, he said that the Father will send the Holy Spirit. Trinity is a mystery beyond human comprehension. You receive such truth with your spirit. You can't figure it out with your senses because it doesn't make sense. This is why you should be born again so you can have the capacity to grasp certain spiritual truths that the mind cannot understand.

Westerhoffe:



What do you know about JESUS CHRIST?

SIRTee15:


What do U understand by sitting on the right hand of God.
That does right hand of God and what does it mean for someone to sit at the right hand of God.
Where will this person sit on the right hand of God- heaven or earth.
So a mere mortal will sit on the right hand of God in heaven!!!!
In case U don't know the judaism regard the passage as refering to the Messiah.
And then verse 4 spoke about being a priest forever on the order of Melchizedek
Islam 110 is definitely not talking about a mortal man.

AbuTwins:
It is more than translation error! I will go back and forth when it's not only you i respond to here!

The book being tailored to make Jesus divine does not mean there won't be some truth therein.

There's no confusion in this!

Emusan:


Which means you agreed that what you read in your translation(s) is what the translator(s) understand from the manuscripts that were used, is that right?

Does this tailor come as a result of TRANSLATION or what was pen down before translation?

There's confusion and it's because you want to eat your cake and also have it.

Here is the confusion again: "So there are ATOM of truth in the New Testament yet your first sentence read "Of course, THE WHOLE OF New Testament was tailored to make Jesus Divine"

How can you say there's an atom of truth IN THE WHOLE OF WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE FRAUD?

Do you know the meaning of 'WHOLE' or you want to admit that's not the word you intended to use?

AbuTwins:
Most likely. I think Erasmus didn't even used his Textus Receptus fully well...and that's why the KJV has too many grave errors!

Both and also the councils from Nicaea onwards fixed a lot of things!

There's no confusion except the one you want to create. There can be truth even in the midst of an entire fraud!

A politician can make a budget of N70Bn for a project and can use only N7Bn for the same project in reality!
The N7Bn is the true value of the N70Bn project cost!

Emusan:


So in a nutshell, we should discard the New Testament in totality. Right?

Do you know the meaning of 'WHOLE'?

So how can you say "there are ATOM of truth in the New Testament yet your first sentence read "Of course, THE WHOLE OF New Testament was tailored to make Jesus Divine"?

It's evident that you want to eat your cake and also have it. Which is not possible!

AbuTwins:
That one no be my business!

Yes ask any Christian they'll tell you the NT is all about Jesus! And they'll interpret it to be just like that with the trinity mindset...

Of course it is possible!

Jesus said God is one!
Christians interpret it to mean Three in One!
One is still there!

Emusan:


If it's not your business you won't create this thread.

So answer my question.

That is Christian and leave them out of it.

I'm asking you AbuTwins, do you know the meaning of 'WHOLE' as you used it above?

You mean it's possible to eat your cake and also have it...you must be joking.

Nobody ask you this

Let's established the authenticity/fraudulent of the New Testament first.

Which is what you have been dodging for the reasons best known to you since.

My point is simple, you can't claim "there's an atom of TRUTH and at the same time affirmed that THE WHOLE New Testament was TAILORED (fogged) to make Jesus Divine"

AbuTwins:
Okay, Hell was created for a reason!

It's English and whole can be used informally to mean an appreciable amount of something!
You should get the usage!

You can eat half and still have half!

Of cos i can make such claims as there's no contradiction in it!

Emusan:


This so not answer to my question.

It's evident you don't know what you're saying and very dishonest.

To be whole is to be undivided unit.

Then it's not WHOLE.

You see how you exposed your dishonesty

You're even more confused than before.

Such a shame!

You made a claim yet you can't stand by it with your full chest.

AbuTwins:
So what is the answer since it is your question?

Not really dishonest! English language can sometimes be subjective.

I just wished to use "Whole" for an appreciable amount of something!
And rightly so!

If you mean the dictionary "Whole" then that's not what i meant!

I see no confusion or contradiction here!

Emusan:


I asked you question and you're asking me answer to the question

Here it is again, So in a nutshell, we should discard the New Testament in totality. Right?

You see how arrogance is exposing your dishonesty.

I asked you the question below then, which you dance over it, thinking you're smart. "Do you know the meaning of 'WHOLE' or you want to admit that's not the word you intended to use?

Now, you're claiming what you use WHOLE for is different, which means you decided to give it YOUR OWN MEANING and when you're even being corrected you're still being adamant.

That's bad.

Now since you agree it's not the WHOLE NEW TESTAMENT, then you're wrong with your assertion.

So how will you use a word and decided to give it YOUR OWN MEANING?

DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO YOU?

But the confusion and contradiction are well written over your post.

AbuTwins:


I asked who wrote the Psalm verse.

The question is not about who is sitting at the right side of God (which of course brings another argument that Jesus and his father are two not one) but about the word LORD aka YAHWEH and Adoni (lord)!

Stop deflecting!

AbuTwins:
All these theory are lies! God is not a man - Numbers 23:19.

Samson too was empowered by the same spirit to kill people. Jesus was simply a man!

The contexts of the verse is oneness of purpose and not oneness of persons! He did say the father is greater than him too!

So he is a worshipper!

But God was calling them son so why can't they call him father? So how did God born Jesus, is it by reproduction, adoption or what means?

He was speaking in parables and did confuse them!

John 16:25
"Though I have been speaking figuratively (paroimia), a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my Father.

Why wasn't Jesus speaking in a normal and clear way all the time? Why did Jesus then go and say that he won't 'use this kind of language' according to the Bible?

Well, here we find out why...

Mark 4:10-12
When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that," 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'

So here we see that Jesus was deceiving certain people by speaking in parables so that they won't (and God forbid!) REPENT AND BE FORGIVEN!

This is part of the Nicene creed that was fixed for you in the council of Nicaea!

Is your Spirit separate from you? If your God has a Spirit then it should not be another person other than him!



So the father can send the son on errand! The Son can send the spirit on errand! How are they equal? Trinity is a flaw that you just have to believe by faith! The Bible scholars have tried to prove and explain it from the Bible and in reality but they've always failed!

So i need to be born again to understand God when the statement is clear?

Hear O Israel the Lord our God is ONE!

AbuTwins:


He was a man approved of God with miracles and sent only to the lost sheep of Israel!

Janosky:
NOBODY worships Jesus in heaven.