StillDtruth:


You are lying like a person seeing that his child looks like his wife's boss and yet he says he sees no evidence of cheating.

not an accurate analogy... I'm curious to see how you apply this to the concept of a god existing

Wilgrea7:


not an accurate analogy... I'm curious to see how you apply this to the concept of a god existing

Its as accurate as seeing used condoms in your toilet and sewage where you are living w in a house witb only your wife in it, for i bave severally pointed out to you that the proof of God is that this House called earth, cannot and did not build itself exaclty az you do not imagine that Sheraton built itself.

And for 2 years running you have never being able to give a valid counter.

StillDtruth:


This is a fallacy.

The mere fact that we and our house called earth were created ....

You have not provided any evidence of this so called "created".

budaatum:


You have not provided any evidence of this so called "created".

Fallacy of reversal of burden of proof/change of post. The topic is not about proof of "created "

Besides, It is evident and known that nothing in this world created itself, so no point

ReacherSaidNoth:
How can you tell whether something is designed? When you look at mountains, the course of rivers, sand dune, waterfalls and all the magnificent physical features on our planet, what about them tells you that they are the works of a god and not just any god, the one you believe in?

I believe in intelligent creation. I look at everything, the birds, and how well they were tailored to divide into hundreds of species solely by adapting to their environments, the dogs, the sky, how perfectly it's engineered to have its colour, and how perfectly the earth rotates every 24 hours, and revolves around the sun every three sixty five(and a quarter) days. Do you know that if the earth was an inch closer to the sun, we'd all burn up immediately? And if the earth was an inch farther from the sun we'd freeze to death. The earth is in its perfect position. Perfect for us humans, with water, and plants and animals for food. We could have landed up in Jupiter. Or Venus. But we're here. The perfect planet.

Thinking about this makes me realize something created this. Not just something, an intelligent something. An intelligent creator that gives us a conscience and (most likely) free will.

All ancient cultures had the idea of God. Even ours. We knew something brought us there, and instinct was put in us to worship something we could think was creator of the world. Igbos believed in Chukwu, represented by the sun. Yorubas had Olodumare. Mind you, long before the Europeans came.

ReacherSaidNoth:
It's not my fault you education was inadequate and you know nothing of organic evolution.

Organic evolution did not start the universe.

CMdunk35:


I believe in intelligent creation. I look at everything, the birds, and how well they were tailored to divide into hundreds of species solely by adapting to their environments, the dogs, the sky, how perfectly it's engineered to have its colour, and how perfectly the earth rotates every 24 hours, and revolves around the sun every three sixty five(and a quarter) days. Do you know that if the earth was an inch closer to the sun, we'd all burn up immediately? And if the earth was an inch farther from the sun we'd freeze to death. The earth is in its perfect position. Perfect for us humans, with water, and plants and animals for food. We could have landed up in Jupiter. Or Venus. But we're here. The perfect planet.

Thinking about this makes me realize something created this. Not just something, an intelligent something. An intelligent creator that gives us a conscience and (most likely) free will.

All ancient cultures had the idea of God. Even ours. We knew something brought us there, and instinct was put in us to worship something we could think was creator of the world. Igbos believed in Chukwu, represented by the sun. Yorubas had Olodumare. Mind you, long before the Europeans came.

All what you have mentioned here fall under "the fine tuning" argument for a creator god.

You are wrong about the bolded. We would not freeze or burn with an inch difference either way, that is completely bullshit. It exposes scientific ignorance on your part.

The idea that we live on a perfect planet made with our comfort in mind can only seem true if you cherry-pick positives.

Let looks at some points that rubbish that claim:

-Only about 30% of the planet's surface is land, the rest is covered by water, of which only 3% of that water is fresh. Of the 3% freshwater, most of it is locked up in ice. Also only 10% of the land we have is arable, does any of this seem like intelligent action that benefits us?

-Before man became the apex species on the planet, our ancestors were at the mercy of stronger, more deadly animals, and we still are in a way. Even today microbes could end us all, all it would take is one super resistant pathogen to cause another worldwide pandemic.

-Let us not forget natural disasters like earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, drought, volcanic eruptions, lightning storms, flooding etc, all of which are a constant threat to life on this planet.

-Even looking at man, we are clearly not perfectly designed. Look how fragile we are compared to some others animals, the poor 'design' of breathing out of the same tube through which we swallow, congenital diseases... Where is the perfection?

There are much more points to show that we are not specially designed organisms put on a perfect planet, but I will pause here.

CMdunk35:


Organic evolution did not start the universe.

Who made the claim that it did?

CMdunk35:


I believe in intelligent creation. I look at everything, the birds, and how well they were tailored to divide into hundreds of species solely by adapting to their environments, the dogs, the sky, how perfectly it's engineered to have its colour, and how perfectly the earth rotates every 24 hours, and revolves around the sun every three sixty five(and a quarter) days. Do you know that if the earth was an inch closer to the sun, we'd all burn up immediately? And if the earth was an inch farther from the sun we'd freeze to death. The earth is in its perfect position. Perfect for us humans, with water, and plants and animals for food. We could have landed up in Jupiter. Or Venus. But we're here. The perfect planet.

Thinking about this makes me realize something created this. Not just something, an intelligent something. An intelligent creator that gives us a conscience and (most likely) free will.

All ancient cultures had the idea of God. Even ours. We knew something brought us there, and instinct was put in us to worship something we could think was creator of the world. Igbos believed in Chukwu, represented by the sun. Yorubas had Olodumare. Mind you, long before the Europeans came.

Your intuition is worthless in this matter. You are like the primitives who intuited that a god was hurling lightning but today we know no god is doing that. Leave primitive thinking behind, we've passed that stage.

LordReed:


Your intuition is worthless in this matter. You are like the primitives who intuited that a god was hurling lightning but today we know no god is doing that. Leave primitive thinking behind, we've passed that stage.

I don’t think the primitives were any dumber than the moderns. Yes, some may have believed that a god was indeed hurling the lighting, and I’m sure that some knew that such beliefs were nonsense. Similar to current beliefs that are just as absurd as the primitive but nevertheless are known to false by some.

What’s the difference between the person that thinks a god hurls thunderbolts and the person that thinks bread and wine consumed turn into the body of a god?

Also, those primitives built the foundation of everything we know and are capable of. They observed the stars and noticed the changes that occurred around them as the stars appeared to move. The named those stars, created agriculture, and domesticated wild animals. Shit, they were necessarily smarter and hardier than moderns. Letter down the line, they created astrology and their legacy endures to this day because astrology is the mother of the supernatural beliefs found in religion and the father of astronomy.

CMdunk35:

Do you know that if the earth was an inch closer to the sun, we'd all burn up immediately? And if the earth was an inch farther from the sun we'd freeze to death. The earth is in its perfect position.

The difference in the distance between Earth’s closest approach to the Sun (known as perihelion), which occurs on or about January 3 each year, and its farthest departure from the Sun (known as aphelion) on or about July 4, is currently about 5.1 million kilometers (about 3.2 million miles).

https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/space-science/orbital-eccentricity

KnownUnknown:


I don’t think the primitives were any dumber than the moderns. Yes, some may have believed that a god was indeed hurling the lighting, and I’m sure that some knew that such beliefs were nonsense. Similar to current beliefs that are just as absurd as the primitive but nevertheless are known to false by some.

What’s the difference between the person that thinks a god hurls thunderbolts and the person that thinks bread and wine consumed turn into the body of a god?

Also, those primitives built the foundation of everything we know and are capable of. They observed the stars and noticed the changes that occurred around them as the stars appeared to move. The named those stars, created agriculture, and domesticated wild animals. Shit, they were necessarily smarter and hardier than moderns. Letter down the line, they created astrology and their legacy endures to this day because astrology is the mother of the supernatural beliefs found in religion and the father of astronomy.

I didn't say anything about being dumber, I said it was a stage in our thinking. A primitive intuition based stage. We obviously cannot remain at that stage but people like CMdunk35 want to remain there.

KnownUnknown:


The difference in the distance between Earth’s closest approach to the Sun (known as perihelion), which occurs on or about January 3 each year, and its farthest departure from the Sun (known as aphelion) on or about July 4, is currently about 5.1 million kilometers (about 3.2 million miles).

https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/space-science/orbital-eccentricity

LoLz! See what I am saying? CMdunk35 is relying on an intuition based statement that is obviously just bullocks but it sounds good to him because it fits with what he believes.

Oh I like intelligent debate like this, please all should be civil, no one should throw insults. Most of us are here to learn!!...

KnownUnknown:


The difference in the distance between Earth’s closest approach to the Sun (known as perihelion), which occurs on or about January 3 each year, and its farthest departure from the Sun (known as aphelion) on or about July 4, is currently about 5.1 million kilometers (about 3.2 million miles).

https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/space-science/orbital-eccentricity

Inch should be taken figuratively.

LordReed:


I didn't say anything about being dumber, I said it was a stage in our thinking. A primitive intuition based stage. We obviously cannot remain at that stage but people like CMdunk35 want to remain there.

You can't tell me fully how the universe came to be. I say the universe came to be by something. Nothing can't create anything. Something outside the bounds of time and space, had to be responsible for everything. And judging by how beautifully, and complexly made it is, I put it all on intelligent creation, simple.

I like remaining in your so called outdated spot. Because it's the only way I can have an explanation. A simple scientific fact is that everything can't come from nothing. What is that starting point? God. The people of the old, and a ton of people now, including Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, believe in the creator aspect of the universe.

CMdunk35:


I believe in intelligent creation. I look at everything, the birds, and how well they were tailored to divide into hundreds of species solely by adapting to their environments, the dogs, the sky, how perfectly it's engineered to have its colour, and how perfectly the earth rotates every 24 hours, and revolves around the sun every three sixty five(and a quarter) days. Do you know that if the earth was an inch closer to the sun, we'd all burn up immediately? And if the earth was an inch farther from the sun we'd freeze to death. The earth is in its perfect position. Perfect for us humans, with water, and plants and animals for food. We could have landed up in Jupiter. Or Venus. But we're here. The perfect planet.

Thinking about this makes me realize something created this. Not just something, an intelligent something. An intelligent creator that gives us a conscience and (most likely) free will.

All ancient cultures had the idea of God. Even ours. We knew something brought us there, and instinct was put in us to worship something we could think was creator of the world. Igbos believed in Chukwu, represented by the sun. Yorubas had Olodumare. Mind you, long before the Europeans came.

Fine tuning argument is pretty stupid though. it states the universe is supposedly fine tuned for the presence of intelligent beings. A universe suitable for intelligent beings is said to be highly improbable, so its existence needs an explanation. Yet the "explanation" they suggest involves an intelligent being which just exists, is unexplained, without the need for a "fine tuned" universe to live in. How am I supposed to welcome the idea that a universe with intelligent beings is improbable and requires an explanation, while also believing that an intelligent being can exist without explanation and without anyone fine tuning the conditions for its existence?

All these one degree hotter or little farther from the sun don't even support finetuning if one looks beyond the superficial aspects of the argument.
I’d be a lot more accepting of the “fine tuning” argument if modern physics showed that it was "impossible" for the universe to exist given the values of the fundamental physical constants it has discovered.
In that situation some variation of God’s Sustaining Hand™ would become more plausible.
This is largely Sean Carroll's argument. He says that the constants could be anything and God could still create life. He's magic, after all. That we do indeed have life-supporting constants says that we don't need God to sustain life.

ReacherSaidNoth:
All what you have mentioned here fall under "the fine tuning" argument for a creator god.

You are wrong about the bolded. We would not freeze or burn with an inch difference either way, that is completely bullshit. It exposes scientific ignorance on your part.

The idea that we live on a perfect planet made with our comfort in mind can only seem true if you cherry-pick positives.

Let looks at some points that rubbish that claim:

-Only about 30% of the planet's surface is land, the rest is covered by water, of which only 3% of that water is fresh. Of the 3% freshwater, most of it is locked up in ice. Also only 10% of the land we have is arable, does any of this seem like intelligent action that benefits us?

-Before man became the apex species on the planet, our ancestors were at the mercy of stronger, more deadly animals, and we still are in a way. Even today microbes could end us all, all it would take is one super resistant pathogen to cause another worldwide pandemic.

-Let us not forget natural disasters like earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, drought, volcanic eruptions, lightning storms, flooding etc, all of which are a constant threat to life on this planet.

-Even looking at man, we are clearly not perfectly designed. Look how fragile we are compared to some others animals, the poor 'design' of breathing out of the same tube through which we swallow, congenital diseases... Where is the perfection?

There are much more points to show that we are not specially designed organisms put on a perfect planet, but I will pause here.

Also the fact that both Vagyna opening and anal opening are very next to each other and if they mix, which happens accidentally at times could lead to serious issues

CMdunk35:

Inch should be taken figuratively.

Sure. Move the goal post a little more to the left, then shove it up your ass…….figuratively.

CMdunk35:


You can't tell me fully how the universe came to be. I say the universe came to be by something. Nothing can't create anything. Something outside the bounds of time and space, had to be responsible for everything. And judging by how beautifully, and complexly made it is, I put it all on intelligent creation, simple.

I like remaining in your so called outdated spot. Because it's the only way I can have an explanation. A simple scientific fact is that everything can't come from nothing. What is that starting point? God. The people of the old, and a ton of people now, including Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, believe in the creator aspect of the universe.

Why must you have an explanation? Why do you have to fill a gap in knowledge with your imagination? You aren't a primitive who is still unaware of the physics of the universe or at least you have access to learn about it. Also which person said everything came from nothing if not you theists? What did the god you believe in create the universe from?

LordReed:


Why must you have an explanation? Why do you have to fill a gap in knowledge with your imagination? You aren't a primitive who is still unaware of the physics of the universe or at least you have access to learn about it. Also which person said everything came from nothing if not you theists? What did the god you believe in create the universe from?

Isn't your question about what you call "gap"?

hopefulLandlord:
Fine tuning argument is pretty stupid though. it states the universe is supposedly fine tuned for the presence of intelligent beings. A universe suitable for intelligent beings is said to be highly improbable, so its existence needs an explanation. Yet the "explanation" they suggest involves an intelligent being which just exists, is unexplained, without the need for a "fine tuned" universe to live in. How am I supposed to welcome the idea that a universe with intelligent beings is improbable and requires an explanation, while also believing that an intelligent being can exist without explanation and without anyone fine tuning the conditions for its existence?...

Do you not see that you have shifted post?

Is the topic not about us and our House we call the universe?

So why are you shifting the argunent from here to where/how The Creator of our universe comes from when it is not the topic of discussion?

StillDtruth:


Do you not see that you have shifted post?

Is the topic not about us and our House we call the universe?

So why are you shifting the argunent from here to where/how The Creator of our universe comes from when it is not the topic of discussion?

What sort of dishonesty is this? You cut the part that addresses your point head on to pretend it doesn't exist?

well, you all agree that water is an evidence of the universe, but i dont.



as 4 the issue of god, i blame the structure/state/level of the brain of those capable of forming words .

the brain has helped to form words that have failed to address the issue of the origin/purpose of man and his surrounding or whatever that(man and his surrounding) means.

Well,the meaning of man and his surrounding has 2 determine whether there must be origin/purpose or not 4 that(man and his surrounding).


But the brain has 2 pass this level of hopeless words if such must be addressed!

however,i think the question WHERE DO WE COME FROM? is useless.


WHERE ARE WE GOING? is baseless


lez stop asking such questions

itz a waste of blood and water

a waste of time and energy

a waste of speech


am just here 2 exist anyhow possible

whatever it means 2 exist

So when we end such questions,we shall have no level 2 pass or reach.

But churches,mosques and shrines cant cease 2 exist b4 humans go extinct.

I mean they are here 2 stay with us!


Cuz the most powerful entities among those forming/using words want them to remain


but the poor will be seen as an injury 2 to the society

a deformity 2 behold

they will be accused of everything

budaatum and co. have no reason 2 be sincere with them

since they were born poor, they are expected 2 accept every insult till death.




What a damn world!

Michael Jackson died at 50 while trying 2 rest after wasting his talent trying 2 make it a better/more entertaining place

He said let me sleep well nah

They said go 2 hell


And hell is here 2 tell the story

hopefulLandlord:


What sort of dishonesty is this? You cut the part that addresses your point head on to pretend it doesn't exist?

There is nothing dishonest in addressing a specific point you made. Any issue a person raises is right to be addressed.

And at least you have impliedly admitted that this point, which i faced is a departure from post

Now to address your point, i an unable to grasp the point you were trying to make for you did not actually make it. Rather you made your allegation which calls on you to prove, theefore you departed from making your point.

"Fine tuning argument is pretty stupid though. it states the universe is supposedly fine tuned for the presence of intelligent beings. A universe suitable for intelligent beings is said to be highly improbable, so its existence needs an explanation..."

The bold is you allegging that this universe is not suitable for intelligent beings and this is not a counter but an allegation begging for proof which will be a departure from post.

And all your attempt to make a point stand on this fall, "Yet the "explanation" they suggest involves an intelligent being which just exists, is unexplained, without the need for a "fine tuned" universe to live in. How am I supposed to welcome the idea that a universe with intelligent beings is improbable and requires an explanation,"

So, sorry, you made no point but created an alleagation argument which you sought to use as counter.

KnownUnknown:


Sure. Move the goal post a little more to the left, then shove it up your ass…….figuratively.

they swallow everything their clergy men tell them hook line and sinker