Ojuntana:

I don't agree that they don't. If it were so, Tinubu will not survive OBJ. It seems Tinubu's boys are fighting governors for political supremacy. It might not augur well for him in the long run if care is not taken. Governors are closer to the grassroot than any Abuja boy

OBJ did everything from 2002 to bring TINUBU down political he failed, nothing like TINUBU will not survive obj. Obj change cp of police and INEC state chairman a day to 2007 governoship election in Lagos state just to make sure they did what the FG want yet he failed. Obj withheld Lagos state funds despite court order. Obj used EFCC under nuhu rebadu yet TINUBU survived.

yarimo:
OBJ did everything from 2002 to bring TINUBU down political he failed, nothing like TINUBU will not survive obj. Obj change cp of police and INEC state chairman a day to 2007 governoship election in Lagos state just to make sure they did what the FG want yet he failed. Obj withheld Lagos state funds despite court order. Obj used EFCC under nuhu rebadu yet TINUBU survived.

Lol. You simply don't understand English do you? Go back and read carefully what I wrote and see how offpoint you are

Ojuntana:

Lol. You simply don't understand English do you? Go back and read carefully what I wrote and see how offpoint you are

thank God you get the message, next time do not think everyone in nairaland is kid like you. don't just wake up and start posting what you don't know nothing about and expect everyone to agree with

yarimo:
recognises abi ? Lawmakers that are now recognize by law as members, until they impeach him and tell him to go to court. Let the governor lose guard

vanitybutiwanti:
you know nothing, he has no budget and there is a subsisting Judgement from the federal high court to that effect and they don't need the governors recognition law is law, its just like saying Tinubu shouldn't recognise state governors because he doesn't like their faces. The commisioners were screened after he obtained the illegal judgement from the state high court, I dare him, his fake attorney general , his fake commisioners to present themselves in official capacity, he will ve impeached and heaven will not fall, why didn't the fake speaker screen the fake commisioners before they sought the illegal judgement from the state high court to perpetuate their illegality? He has gone to the supreme Court and he will get the same result, there is even a subsisting Federal High Court judgement by omotosho validating the seats of Martins and the other lawmakers, left for me alone, he should be impeached and the state should move on.

How many times am I going to tell you guys that lawmakers can't impeach the gov all by themselves

yarimo:
thank God you get the message, next time do not think everyone in nairaland is kid like you. don't just wake up and start posting what you don't know nothing about and expect everyone to agree with

But did you get the message you replied to

Have you ever been to Lagos?

adekolaelect:
Even writing in Capital letter can never make you right. You write nonsense in capital letter can only make you Capital Mr no sense .

truths is bitter. Pro Wike lawmakers remain sacked

Ojuntana:

According to section 109, the claim of defection is ascertained by a declaration by the defector on the floor of the House. Let me ask you a simple question since you say PDP is an authority. If PDP expels a member of the assembly. Does he automatically also lose his seat by virtue of that expulsion since he's no longer a member of PDP? I want you to think very well about your answer.

Read the section below very carefully so see that the party is not a decider on defection

I am not sure this has happened to elected officials in recent history. The only matter close to it in recent history was when Umahi, his deputy & house assembly members defected to APC, and despite the FHC ruling to vacate their seats, it was appealed and they retained the same seats till the end of his term, which is now a precedent.

As for the attached image, you need to understand that the court is the place of last resort for everyone. If, for example, the reasons cited by the speaker are not germane, the court can revert the decision of the speaker. Likewise, if the court wants to ascertain the membership of a political party, only the party can confirm or refute it. This is simple; if someone claims to be a member of an organization, logically, only that organization can confirm the person's membership.

Ojuntana:

Fubara withdrew from the suit before Omotosho gave his judgement. Can he still appeal a case he withdrew from?

Attorney-General of Rivers State is still. Defendant there.

Victor Oko-Jumbo is also a party to that suit, they didn't withdraw.

Ojuntana:



How many times am I going to tell you guys that lawmakers can't impeach the gov all by themselves

we all know they need the chief justice of the state, when that time comes you will learn

vanitybutiwanti:
we all know they need the chief justice of the state, when that time comes you will learn

Ok. We'll wait

BERNIMOORE:
Obviously your illiteratecy is on another level I have since stopped arguing with obedients because its a waste of time. ....You should know that the issue in contention is not neccesarily defection, and so the Onus or burden is on the fubara and co to pursue defection issue earlier before This particular suit was brought up. PDP itself sought the appeal court to give their prayers that the 27 lawmakers are their members, so Defection is Not proven by Fubara, and cannot be part of the prayers sought by Amauwhule, citing the interlocutory court order or the High court in Rivers state which pronounced the 3 man House of assembly speaker as a result of Defection, Now The Appeal court has set aside that ruling meaning that defection or no defection, Ameawhule restored be the Apeal court as the Authentic speaker.......Amauwhule filed this Appeal, and he is Not asking to be restored as speaker on the basis of Defection, PDP who actually Joined in the suit claim that Amawhule remain their Members ....and since Fubara and co cannot supply evidence of their defection within 14 days to the court, The court gave its Judjement restoring Amawhule as the Authentic speaker.....it is Laughable that we have to keep educating you stubborn obidients with little brains

Stop this misinformation, stop manufacturing laws and concoction of justice.

Amewhule and his co travelers remain suspended.

The court only ruled on jurisdiction and not reenstatement of decamped lawbreakers.

fergie001:

Attorney-General of Rivers State is still. Defendant there.

Victor Oko-Jumbo is also a party to that suit, they didn't withdraw.

Oh ok. But was the defection a substantive matter in the suit?

What I saw that the suit was about was fubara's act of recognising the Ehie faction then and working with them

lionshare:


I am not sure this has happened to elected officials in recent history. The only matter close to it in recent history was when Umahi, his deputy & house assembly members defected to APC, and despite the FHC ruling to vacate their seats, it was appealed and they retained the same seats till the end of his term, which is now a precedent.

As for the attached image, you need to understand that the court is the place of last resort for everyone. If, for example, the reasons cited by the speaker are not germane, the court can revert the decision of the speaker. Likewise, if the court wants to ascertain the membership of a political party, only the party can confirm or refute it. This is simple; if someone claims to be a member of an organization, logically, only that organization can confirm the person's membership.

I'm not talking of defection but expulsion. When a party expels you, you are no longer a member of the party. Based on section 109g, will a member of the House lose his seat if his party expels him?

Yeah. The court can reverse the decision of the speaker. No one doubts that but the speaker does not need to wait for the courts to declare the seats of defectors vacant.
You are just turning the matter upside down. The question is not a debate of if they are members of PDPD but that whether they defected from PDP to APC. The party cannot decide who defected or not. Besides, do you realizeLet it is possible to leave a party without officially resigning and joining another? Let's stretch it a bit. Are you saying a member of APC who died since 2022 remains a member of the party because he did not write a letter of resignation and his name is on the party register?

Ojuntana:
Yeah. The court can reverse the decision of the speaker. No one doubts that but the speaker does not need to wait for the courts to declare the seats of defectors vacant.
You are just turning the matter upside down. The question is not a debate of if they are members of PDPD but that whether they defected from PDP to APC. The party cannot decide who defected or not. Besides, do you realizeLet it is possible to leave a party without officially resigning and joining another? Let's stretch it a bit. Are you saying a member of APC who died since 2022 remains a member of the party because he did not write a letter of resignation and his name is on the party register?

No, I am not. You are creating scenarios because you do not want to accept reality. And yes, you can leave a party anytime as long as there are no litigations. Assuming the act was followed and the speaker announced the defection and was legally constituted, which is not the case in this instance. If there are any litigations, who do you think the court will rely on to make a decision as to your party membership? You or the complaint, the speaker, or the new party, or the previous party?

lionshare:


No, I am not. You are creating scenarios because you do not want to accept reality. And yes, you can leave a party anytime as long as there are no litigations. Assuming the act was followed and the speaker announced the defection and was legally constituted, which is not the case in this instance. If there are any litigations, who do you think the court will rely on to make a decision as to your party membership? You or the complaint, the speaker, or the new party, or the previous party?

I'm not creating scenarios. It is you who is bringing if and buts. Let's follow section 109. The speaker's attention is brought to the fact that a member has defected from his party. The speaker checks to see if it is true. The speaker is convinced that the evidence of defection before him is true. The speaker declares member's seat vacant and writes to INEC to fill the vacancy. It is as simple as that.

In a scenario where the speaker wrongly declares the member's seat vacant, the member can approach the court for redress. In a situation where the speaker refuses to declare a member's seat vacant even after defection is established based on his own interpretation, the party is at liberty to seek redress.
Note that, the party is not required to confirm or deny the member's membership on the floor of the House. Straight and simple.

Ojuntana:

I'm not creating scenarios. It is you who is bringing if and buts. Let's follow section 109. The speaker's attention is brought to the fact that a member has defected from his party. The speaker checks to see if it is true. The speaker is convinced that the evidence of defection before him is true. The speaker declares member's seat vacant and writes to INEC to fill the vacancy. It is as simple as that.

In a scenario where the speaker wrongly declares the member's seat vacant, the member can approach the court for redress. In a situation where the speaker refuses to declare a member's seat vacant even after defection is established based on his own interpretation, the party is at liberty to seek redress.
Note that, the party is not required to confirm or deny the member's membership on the floor of the House. Straight and simple.

Think beyond the house of assembly because the governor can get the speaker to remove anyone. But in court, you'll have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the said member cross-carpeted to a new party. My point you're deflecting from is that only the party can confirm if someone is still their member or not; the judge can't rely on any other source, not even the resignation letter or video evidence, because the lawyer can easily disprove that.

Ojuntana:


But did you get the message you replied to

Have you ever been to Lagos?

Shifting from real politics talk to have you been to Lagos 🤣🤣🤣. Kids everywhere

Ojuntana:



How many times am I going to tell you guys that lawmakers can't impeach the gov all by themselves

How many times am i going to tell you that you are a kid

lionshare:



Think beyond the house of assembly because the governor can get the speaker to remove anyone. But in court, you'll have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the said member cross-carpeted to a new party. My point you're deflecting from is that only the party can confirm if someone is still their member or not; the judge can't rely on any other source, not even the resignation letter or video evidence, because the lawyer can easily disprove that.

Your point is wrong and I have told you many times. You're just holding stubbornly to it. The question is not if the person is a member but if he defected. You can defect today and return back to the party you defected from tomorrow. In that scenario, will that person still be a valid member according to our laws? These things are simple.
Again, teh question is not who is a member or not but if a member defected. As a matter of fact, that's why you see the Amaewhule guys coming back to claim they never defected. They should have just claimed that they returned na.

yarimo:
Shifting from real politics talk to have you been to Lagos 🤣🤣🤣. Kids everywhere

Did you get the message?

Have you been to Lagos before? Kogi boy

Ojuntana:


Did you get the message?

Have you been to Lagos before? Kogi boy

ok

Ojuntana:

Lol. You simply don't understand English do you? Go back and read carefully what I wrote and see how offpoint you are

They've approached the supreme court to appeal on the same issue of JURISDICTION! 😂 You see the game?? 😂

lionshare:



Think beyond the house of assembly because the governor can get the speaker to remove anyone. But in court, you'll have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the said member cross-carpeted to a new party. My point you're deflecting from is that only the party can confirm if someone is still their member or not; the judge can't rely on any other source, not even the resignation letter or video evidence, because the lawyer can easily disprove that.

No! The onus is on you to prove they've left your party and NOT to prove theyve JOINED ANOTHER

Ojuntana:

Your point is wrong and I have told you many times. You're just holding stubbornly to it. The question is not if the person is a member but if he defected. You can defect today and return back to the party you defected from tomorrow. In that scenario, will that person still be a valid member according to our laws? These things are simple.
Again, teh question is not who is a member or not but if a member defected. As a matter of fact, that's why you see the Amaewhule guys coming back to claim they never defected. They should have just claimed that they returned na.

The only material evidence that matters to prove defection is the party register.
Every other thing can be successfully argued in court.

The governor seems to misunderstand the game being played. If he understood, he wouldn't have gone to court. They don't need to defect now because they control APC in Rivers and PDP at the national level.

The national PDP is supporting them against the governor in court, and it is superior to the state PDP chapter. The real drama will unfold during electioneering

Lastly, since you think you're correct, why did you think the governor went to the Rivers state high court instead of the federal high court?

lionshare:


The only material evidence that matters to prove defection is the party register.
Every other thing can be successfully argued in court.

The governor seems to misunderstand the game being played. If he understood, he wouldn't have gone to court. They don't need to defect now because they control APC in Rivers and PDP at the national level.

The national PDP is supporting them against the governor in court, and it is superior to the state PDP chapter. The real drama will unfold during electioneering

Lastly, since you think you're correct, why did you think the governor went to the Rivers state high court instead of the federal high court?

To buy time. He knew it was wrong. He needed time to remove the Wike LG chairmen. Strike 1.. those ones are not coming back. The tenure elongation law has been struck out!

phantom:


To buy time. He knew it was wrong. He needed time to remove the Wike LG chairmen. Strike 1.. those ones are not coming back. The tenure elongation law has been struck out!

It’s an effort in futility because every approval he’s getting from the current HOA will be cancelled. All the actions of those appointed will be null & void; we all should pray against having smart enemies that knows the workings of both the law & politics.

lionshare:


It’s an effort in futility because every approval he’s getting from the current HOA will be cancelled. All the actions of those appointed will be null & void; we all should pray against having smart enemies that knows the workings of both the law & politics.

Even if you say Martins and co should rescreen CTC chairmen, who are those who will be screened? Will they fall from heaven 😂.., my brother, the LG chairmen are gone! That was fubaras aim.. Martins can't bring them back.

phantom:


Even if you say Martins and co should rescreen CTC chairmen, who are those who will be screened? Will they fall from heaven 😂.., my brother, the LG chairmen are gone! That was fubaras aim.. Martins can't bring them back.

As usual time will tell!

lionshare:


The only material evidence that matters to prove defection is the party register.
Every other thing can be successfully argued in court.

The governor seems to misunderstand the game being played. If he understood, he wouldn't have gone to court. They don't need to defect now because they control APC in Rivers and PDP at the national level.

The national PDP is supporting them against the governor in court, and it is superior to the state PDP chapter. The real drama will unfold during electioneering

Lastly, since you think you're correct, why did you think the governor went to the Rivers state high court instead of the federal high court?

You continue to claim only party register proves defection while you have not shown any authority by which you are making this claim. Below is part of Justice Taiwo's judgement against the Cross River assembly members in 2022. Come and show me where he mentioned party register.

Ojuntana:

You continue to claim only party register proves defection while you have not shown any authority by which you are making this claim. Below is part of Justice Taiwo's judgement against the Cross River assembly members in 2022. Come and show me where he mentioned party register.

Why are you shooting yourself in the foot? The example you cited implies defection to APC from PDP; do you expect APC to accept knowledge of their membership in court knowing they will lose their seats. If you are looking to refute my position then PDP where they defected from should be acknowledging their membership in court as we have seen in rivers.

if you still do not agree after now. Lets just wait it out- time reveals everything.

lionshare:


Why are you shooting yourself in the foot? The example you cited implies defection to APC from PDP; do you expect APC to accept knowledge of their membership in court knowing they will lose their seats. If you are looking to refute my position then PDP where they defected from should be acknowledging their membership in court as we have seen in rivers.

if you still do not agree after now. Lets just wait it out- time reveals everything.

You don't understand. APC claimed they are not their members. In effect, APC is saying they did not defect to their party. Remember your premise is that only a party can determine its members. If the allegation says they defected from PDP to APC and APC says they are not their members, does it not imply that they never defected? See the judge's reply. He said their defection was loud and clear and they even took photographs. He didn't ask for party register to prove or disprove it.Read the last line. He said they took photographs. PDP is acknowledging them as members in a bid to quash the defection and turn it to ordinary rumour. But that won't hold because their letters of defection was read on the floor of the House. I'm aware there's a suit by BOOT party on the defection matter. Let us see how it goes.

Ojuntana:

You don't understand. APC claimed they are not their members. In effect, APC is saying they did not defect to their party. Remember your premise is that only a party can determine its members. If the allegation says they defected from PDP to APC and APC says they are not their members, does it not imply that they never defected? See the judge's reply. He said their defection was loud and clear and they even took photographs. He didn't ask for party register to prove or disprove it.Read the last line. He said they took photographs. PDP is acknowledging them as members in a bid to quash the defection and turn it to ordinary rumour. But that won't hold because their letters of defection was read on the floor of the House. I'm aware there's a suit by BOOT party on the defection matter. Let us see how it goes.

In the case cited if the party from where people are defecting (PDP) agrees they are still members what do you think the judge will do? Lets see how the boot party case goes.