A verse that i find particularly interesting from childhood was this:

"Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him." (Revelation 12:7-9, NIV).


My question is, would the devil have fought if he didn't think that he had a chance?

God cannot certainly be such a weakling as described.

How does an omniscient god of all galaxies and universes be so clueless about the blatant coup attempt on his own yard?


The second question is if there's no other Option of faith on EARTH besides Christianity, would you rather face God as a person still in search of truth or would you face God as a person who believes a book that suggests His dominion could be usurped by His creations if they try hard enough?

The tory go long man.
That's what religion can do; brainwashing people into believing nonsense

FarSide:
The tory go long man. That's what religion can do; brainwashing people into believing nonsense

All religions.... Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, etc. are political scams.

Whyai:
A verse that i find particularly interesting from childhood was this:

"Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him." (Revelation 12:7-9, NIV).


My question is, would the devil have fought if he didn't think that he had a chance?

God cannot certainly be such a weakling as described.

How does an omniscient god of all galaxies and universes be so clueless about the blatant coup attempt on his own yard?


The second question is if there's no other Option of faith on EARTH besides Christianity, would you rather face God as a person still in search of truth or would you face God as a person who believes a book that suggests His dominion could be usurped by His creations if they try hard enough?

Don’t worry dude. Just believe that “for God so loved the world and he brings his only forgotten son….bla bla bla….”. Thats all you need, okay!!!

drlateef:



Don’t worry dude. Just believe that “for God so loved the world and he brings his only forgotten son….bla bla bla….”. Thats all you need, okay!!!

Imagine, he almost lost His kingdom to coup, like a mere earthly king, then had to appease his creation, by sacrificing sth dear to him:not even animal or hectares of land, but a supposed son, who is supposed to run heaven alongside him.

That is some Greek Zeus bullshit.

Whyai:

My question is, would the devil have fought if he didn't think that he had a chance?

Proud pple always have an inflated sense of self .....so yeah....like adolf hitler, the devil can try thinking he can win when he actually cant..

Whyai:

God cannot certainly be such a weakling as described.

weakling?? not sure what your context is here.....because one creation decides to rebel makes God a weakling?? How? We humans on earth here rebel all the time...u are making it sound like a bigger deal what the devil did.......creations have free will right? ....

Whyai:

How does an omniscient god of all galaxies and universes be so clueless about the blatant coup attempt on his own yard?

It's is my opinion that God omniscient capacity doesnt mean he knows his creation's final decision...why did i say this? I mean, You cannot give total free will (the ability to do whatever you want) to each creation and also have the right to know the creations final decision on a matter....that's wont be free will

My opinion is what God sees or knows in his omniscient capacity is all the possible outcomes / decisions you can make concerning an issue.... E.g...if are lusting after a woman... There are many possible outcomes from that lust...assuming its 4...
1.you approach the lady & sleep with her
2..you rápe her...
3..you ignore your lust and move on
4. You kill her because u angry u can't get her....

God sees and knows all these 4 outcomes even before you choose but what u will do eventually is totally up to you alone because that's what free will truly means...

Which is why I also believe it was said about Abraham "now I know you truly fear me" (Gen. 22:12).

Whyai:

The second question is if there's no other Option of faith on EARTH besides Christianity, would you rather face God as a person still in search of truth or would you face God as a person who believes a book that suggests His dominion could be usurped by His creations if they try hard enough?

Anyone who believes God only because of what he reads in the Bible or becos of what some pastor said is just doing religion or bandwagon followership
There were no books or Bible written about God thousands of years ago.....yet people somehow encountered God..like abraham, isaac, moses, etc.. . And that little aspect of God they encountered (referred to as conviction) is usually enough to carry them for one life time

Children of apes and their folly. You no go find something productive?

advanceDNA:

Proud pple always have an inflated sense of self .....so yeah....like adolf hitler, the devil can try thinking he can win when he actually cant..

weakling?? not sure what your context is here.....because one creation decides to rebel makes God a weakling?? How? We humans on earth here rebel all the time...u are making it sound like a bigger deal what the devil did.......creations have free will right? ....


It's is my opinion that God omniscient capacity doesnt mean he knows his creation's final decision...why did i say this? I mean, You cannot give total free will (the ability to do whatever you want) to each creation and also have the right to know the creations final decision on a matter....that's wont be free will

My opinion is what God sees or knows in his omniscient capacity is all the possible outcomes / decisions you can make concerning an issue.... E.g...if are lusting after a woman... There are many possible outcomes from that lust...assuming its 4...
1.you approach the lady & sleep with her
2..you rápe her...
3..you ignore your lust and move on
4. You kill her because u angry u can't get her....

God sees and knows all these 4 outcomes even before you choose but what u will do eventually is totally up to you alone because that's what free will truly means...

Which is why I also believe it was said about Abraham "now I know you truly fear me" (Gen. 22:12).



Anyone who believes God only because of what he reads in the Bible or becos of what some pastor said is just doing religion or bandwagon followership
There were no books or Bible written about God thousands of years ago.....yet people somehow encountered God..like abraham, isaac, moses, etc.. . And that little aspect of God they encountered (referred to as conviction) is usually enough to carry them for one life time

Interesting response. Except that there are apparent flaws in it.

1. The devil didn't act alone.
2. Unlike Hitler and the Nazis, the devil and his fellow rebels must have known that the described god is all powerful.
3. According to Isiah 14:12-15. He really thought they had a chance to usurp the dominion of heaven. The devil didnt do it just to spite the authority of the God for the sakė of free will. There is an under tone of "see - finish". The worst is he communicated this to others and helped them see reason.
4. If a book is supposedly divine and a message from a God, it should be taken seriously and also be able to address critical assessment in a way that is not self-contradictory like an ordinary book.

Whyai:



Interesting response. Except that there are apparent flaws in it.

1. The devil didn't act alone.
2. Unlike Hitler and the Nazis, the devil and his fellow rebels must have known that the described god is all powerful.
3. According to Isiah 14:12-15. He really thought they had a chance to usurp the dominion of heaven. The devil didnt do it just to spite the authority of the God for the sakė of free will. There is an under tone of "see - finish". The worst is he communicated this to others and helped them see reason.
4. If a book is supposedly divine and a message from a God, it should be taken seriously and also be able to address critical assessment in a way that is not self-contradictory like an ordinary book.

" God" might have a weakness,the devil probably secretly discovered, and he wanted to take advantage but did not succeed.

We only have limited knowledge of God

Whyai:


1. The devil didn't act alone.

so..?? What has not acting alone got to do with his intention ....the text said he's the gang leader...other were just riding on his deceptive and pride-driven mandate.....The others probably believed him because of his position .... Imagine the senate president planning a coup....being a member of the senate others could Believe him compared to a random local government chairman trying to do the same

Whyai:

2. Unlike Hitler and the Nazis, the devil and his fellow rebels must have known that the described god is all powerful.

must have known?? You funny....This is fallacy of hasty conclusion....their is no evidence for this claim...its not even a plausible conclusion.

Anyways...What the devil knew as u claim or thought doesn't matter....... Pride as recorded likely made him thought he could deafet his boss ....this i feel is the plausible explanation for his move as the bible records that he was perfect before he allowed pride take him over to think he would ascend the throne of God

Whyai:

3. According to Isiah 14:12-15. He really thought they had a chance to usurp the dominion of heaven. The devil didnt do it just to spite the authority of the God for the sakė of free will. There is an under tone of "see - finish". The worst is he communicated this to others and helped them see reason.

Like I said.....What he thought doesn't matter in this context because he was wrong.....isnt it clearly evident from his defeat.??...he couldn't even defeat the remaining co angels

Whyai:

4. If a book is supposedly divine and a message from a God, it should be taken seriously and also be able to address critical assessment in a way that is not self-contradictory like an ordinary book.

The bible is a merged account of different people who encountered God in different ways ......it's was merged for collective reference ....it ddnt really need to be merged if u ask me......in those days ...the books were stored in scrolls separately

Until u encounter God urself like those whose accounts were recorded.....all u have is religion or bandwagon followership... Bible or no bible

advanceDNA:
so..?? What has not acting alone got to do with his intention ....the text said he's the gang leader...other were just riding on his deceptive and pride-driven mandate.....The others probably believed him because of his position .... Imagine the senate president planning a coup....being a member of the senate others could Believe him compared to a random local government chairman trying to do the same

must have known?? You funny....This is fallacy of hasty conclusion....their is no evidence for this claim...its not even a plausible conclusion.

Anyways...What the devil knew as u claim or thought doesn't matter....... Pride as recorded likely made him thought he could deafet his boss ....this i feel is the plausible explanation for his move as the bible records that he was perfect before he allowed pride take him over to think he would ascend the throne of God


Like I said.....What he thought doesn't matter in this context because he was wrong.....isnt it clearly evident from his defeat.??...he couldn't even defeat the remaining co angels



The bible is a merged account of different people who encountered God in different ways ......it's was merged for collective reference ....it ddnt really needed to be merged if u ask me......in those days ...the books were stored in scrolls separately

Until u encounter God urself like those whose accounts were recorded.....all u have is religion or bandwagon wagon followership... Bible or no bible

1. Bible is the merger of various Accounts. Which means the authors would be vetted for it to be acceptable? If you dont know the authors, how then were they vetted and their writings divine?

2. According to the Bible, the angels who acted with him also have free will and are rational. If they are influenced by the devil, then they would have a shared conception of a weakness they could capitalize upon.

3. By your house of senate reference, you are affirming that the Bible's heavenly leadership structure is earthly, therefore without an absolute power ir perhaps such that can be threatened.

If the Bible's god's heaven is so disfunctional, another battle in heaven could be under way, so he cant be all powerful.


This cant be the analogy of an all powerful God. The only way for christianity to be truthful is to affirm the Bible as being corrupted, hence the corrupted image of the Christian god.

Then, people can find their God elsewhere.

Whyai:

1. Bible is the merger of various Accounts. Which means the authors would be vested for it to be axceptable? If you dont know the authors, how then were they vested and their writibgs divine?

u have free will...no body expects u to accept anything....the bible is an account of pple's encounter, from the law to prophets and the gospels.... Its only divine to who believes and find God through them..

Whyai:

2. According to the Bible, the angels who acted with him also have free will and are rational. If they are influenced by the devil, then must have a shared conception of a weakness they can capitalize upon.

lol...u funny
..U use "must" a lot without evidence of any plausibility ...this is fallacy.....
Also u keep using weakness yet the so called coup ddnt even succeeded...the orchestrator of the coup and his accomplices couldn't even defeat their fellow angels let alone God....so what's this weakness u keep rambling about??
I mentioned earlier ...that the devil is no different from humans here on earth..we insult God, we rebel all the time with our free will...so u feel God shouldn't let anyone rebel against him...lol.....nigga thats not free will

Whyai:

3. By your house of senate reference, you are affirming that the Bible's heavenly leadership structure is earthly, therefore without an absolute power ir perhaps such that can be threatened.

.another fallacy of hasty conclusion ...I'm not affirming anything... I only made an analogy.. the structure of governmental arrangement cannot possible be compared to heaven's

Whyai:

If the Bible's god's heaven is so disfunctional, another battle in heaven could be under way, so he cant be all powerful.

... I can see a whole lot of order, and perfection in this cosmos....so i don't get your context of dysfunctional and I certainly dont get the context of ur all-knowing

Whyai:

This cant be the analogy of an all powerful God. The only way for christianity to be truthful is to affirm the Bible has been corrupted, hence the corrupted image of the Christian god.

opinion is free....like i said...u rush into fallacy alot

Whyai:

Then, people can find their God elsewhere.

Sure....Find ur God wherever u want, i.e if u want
I said that earlier...pple have been finding God long before the bible....but u were probably not following ..

advanceDNA:
so..?? What has not acting alone got to do with his intention ....the text said he's the gang leader...other were just riding on his deceptive and pride-driven mandate.....The others probably believed him because of his position .... Imagine the senate president planning a coup....being a member of the senate others could Believe him compared to a random local government chairman trying to do the same

must have known?? You funny....This is fallacy of hasty conclusion....their is no evidence for this claim...its not even a plausible conclusion.

Anyways...What the devil knew as u claim or thought doesn't matter....... Pride as recorded likely made him thought he could deafet his boss ....this i feel is the plausible explanation for his move as the bible records that he was perfect before he allowed pride take him over to think he would ascend the throne of God


Like I said.....What he thought doesn't matter in this context because he was wrong.....isnt it clearly evident from his defeat.??...he couldn't even defeat the remaining co angels



The bible is a merged account of different people who encountered God in different ways ......it's was merged for collective reference ....it ddnt really need to be merged if u ask me......in those days ...the books were stored in scrolls separately

Until u encounter God urself like those whose accounts were recorded.....all u have is religion or bandwagon followership... Bible or no bible

If it is hasty fallacy to conclude that a power (particularly with a claim of being the ultimate), which can be confronted in a coup is not infallible. Don't you think it is ridiculous to base faith on the fact that such story as a whole could be true.

This is just one aspect of inconsistency in the nature of the biblical god.

Your defence has fallen apart in my opinion and dismissing my point as fallacy doesn't suffice.

Whyai:



If it is hasty fallacy to conclude that a power (particularly with a claim of being ultimate) that can be confronted in a coup is not infallible. Don't you think it is ridiculous to base faith on the fact that such story as a whole could be true.

This is just one aspect of inconsistency in the nature of the biblical god.

Your defence has fallen apart in my opinion and dismissing my point as fallacy doesn't suffice.

U reach nonplausible conclusions without evidence ....that's why i said ur points are fallacy.....read ur own comment...u use the word "must" without evidence weda biblical or general conventionality

Defence.....?? Nigga u funny....I thought we are just exchanging line of thought on this issue as devils advocates...don't forget...no one has full knowledge of who God is or his capacity... Like I said....the bible are just accounts of encounters...man is of course not perfect

Altogether...whatever version makes u sleep well I might is totally fine by me.... If u here to play game of right to wrong.... U are free to call me wrong..that's fine too

The freedom you have to either believe in "Christian God" or not is the same freedom the devil had; a mind of his own
If you want to use the "Christian Bible" as a pointer to say that God is not what we believe he his, Remember Isaiah 14vs12:13.
How did the Christian God knows what the Devil had in his heart? The Devil said in his mind that he wants to create a parallel government with God, while this is even more daring, but he acknowledged that the Most High can't be defeated. ( correcting your view of a coup).
Immediately the Devil conceived the idea, in his heart, God knows, accordingly to the Isaiah 14vs12:14. That means all other efforts he made to bring some angels together were not hidden from God too.
So pride can make someone thinks too highly of oneself. He was defeated by his fellow Angel.

Whyai:



Interesting response. Except that there are apparent flaws in it.

1. The devil didn't act alone.
2. Unlike Hitler and the Nazis, the devil and his fellow rebels must have known that the described god is all powerful.
3. According to Isiah 14:12-15. He really thought they had a chance to usurp the dominion of heaven. The devil didnt do it just to spite the authority of the God for the sakė of free will. There is an under tone of "see - finish". The worst is he communicated this to others and helped them see reason.
4. If a book is supposedly divine and a message from a God, it should be taken seriously and also be able to address critical assessment in a way that is not self-contradictory like an ordinary book.

All Books was written by Human being.

Tolumiide:
The freedom you have to either believe in "Christian God" or not is the same freedom the devil had; a mind of his own
If you want to use the "Christian Bible" as a pointer to say that God is not what we believe he his, Remember Isaiah 14vs12:13.
How did the Christian God knows what the Devil had in his heart? The Devil said in his mind that he wants to create a parallel government with God, while this is even more daring, but he acknowledged that the Most High can't be defeated. ( correcting your view of a coup).
Immediately the Devil conceived the idea, in his heart, God knows, accordingly to the Isaiah 14vs12:14. That means all other efforts he made to bring some angels together were not hidden from God too.
So pride can make someone thinks too highly of oneself. He was defeated by his fellow Angel.

and you believe all these rubbish?

Tolumiide:


.. but he acknowledged that the Most High can't be defeated. ( correcting your view of a coup).

Where, in which verse?

Why should it not be an option? You wan kpai all xtians?

Whyai:
A verse that i find particularly interesting from childhood was this:

"Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him." (Revelation 12:7-9, NIV).


My question is, would the devil have fought if he didn't think that he had a chance?

God cannot certainly be such a weakling as described.

How does an omniscient god of all galaxies and universes be so clueless about the blatant coup attempt on his own yard?

The second question is if there's no other Option of faith on EARTH besides Christianity, would you rather face God as a person still in search of truth or would you face God as a person who believes a book that suggests His dominion could be usurped by His creations if they try hard enough?

The fools say there is no God

Validated:

The fools say there is no God

I didn't post about whether there is no God. I posted that it is impossible for God to be the one described by the christian bible.

Whyai:



Where, in which verse?

The verse I quoted above. The devil's aim was to be like the most high, he knew he couldn't displaced him.
I'm certain you would love to interpret it downside up or as it pleases you.

trutharena:
Why should it not be an option? You wan kpai all xtians?

So out of all the reasonable points your fellow adults are putting forward. Killing and genocide was the only thing your brain settled for.

Go get help.

Tolumiide:


The verse I quoted above. The devil's aim was to be like the most high, he knew he couldn't displaced him.
I'm certain you would love to interpret it downside up or as it pleases you.

Which Isiah are you reading from? Abi you wan invent your own verse?


The same Isiah 14:12-15 that I quoted in this chat already?

Whyai:


I didn't post about whether there is no God. I posted that it is impossible for God to be the one described by the christian bible.

Sincerely, growing up, I doubted alot of things about religion. I always asked myself that would I be a Christian if my parents were not a Christian.

In 2010, I tried to look at alot of other religions, I careful selected
Buddhism
Jainism
Sikhism and
Christianity
Because of their message of love and peace.
It's nice seeing a topic like this again. We have the liberty to believe whatever that pleases us.

Whyai:


So out of all the reasonable points your fellow adults are putting forward. Killing and genocide was the only thing your brain settled for.

Go get help.

So what is the meaning of the thread?

My brother @whyai, looking at the Title of your Thread and your point that you believe that God exists. It's just that you don't see Christianity as an option.
You can share other good options with us, let's look at it together, sincerely, alot of people have alot of questions about religion, you could be helping someone.
These are my options, accordingly
1) Christianity
2) Sikhism
3) Jainism
4) Buddhism

Share yours

trutharena:


So what is the meaning of the thread?

Dont ask me, read like the rest.

Tolumiide:
My brother @whyai, looking at the Title of your Thread and your point that you believe that God exists. It's just that you don't see Christianity as an option.
You can share other good options with us, let's look at it together, sincerely, alot of people have alot of questions about religion, you could be helping someone.
These are my options, accordingly
1) Christianity
2) Sikhism
3) Jainism
4) Buddhism

Share yours

Cant help you, sorry.

Blessed 🙏🙏🙏🙏 be the name of our Lord Jesus Christ for ever and ever and ever

Did God fight the Devil or Angel Michael did?

God did not create Zombies but intelligent being .

I no too blame the OP na people wey dey engage am i blame... Someone will just wakeup nd start showing hatred towards christianity, i feel like such persons are not mentally stable.