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EPL Chatroom - All Discussions - European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) (5169) - Nairaland

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Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by liveLongNprospa(m): 5:08pm On Aug 13
iamoyindamola:

Location?

Lagos
Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by iamoyindamola(m): 5:11pm On Aug 13
liveLongNprospa:


Lagos
Since morning we don't have
Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by Theflint1(m): 5:11pm On Aug 13
iamoyindamola:

Location?
Ogba, there's actually been light for most of the day, they took it not long ago.
Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by Theflint1(m): 5:15pm On Aug 13
A perspective on the Dangote vs NNPC issue

Larride, LivelongnProspa, BlueRayDick, Izzou


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA7leQMzhFg
Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by Ellexy: 6:23pm On Aug 13
Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by BlueRayDick: 7:08pm On Aug 13
Theflint1:
A perspective on the Dangote vs NNPC issue

Larride, LivelongnProspa, BlueRayDick, Izzou


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA7leQMzhFg

God bless Dumebi Kachikwu; finally someone has to call it what it is. Most of the fault is on Dangote for failing to have relevant contracts signed for feedstock supply and a part of the blame is on NNPC/FG under Buhari that was busy selling hope that The Dangote Refinery NNPC/Dangote joint venture that is the solution to our oil problems.

I mentioned it the last time I was discussing with Monerozi and prospa that Dangote needs to provide an agreement/contract signed with NNPC pledging feedstock to him. In the oil and gas space nobody relies on gentleman agreements that are not enforceable either at arbitration or in law courts . Like Kachikwu rightly stated , players in the Oil and Gas space sign agreements years ahead before even commissioning the plant ( I know these things, in fact Iā€™ve been privileged to sight one of such documents between one of the players in the industry and its suppliers)

You didnā€™t build a 650,000bpd refinery designed to serve the west African market only to be relying on crude from NNPC that keeps entering into forward sales of untapped crude every eke market day. All those letter headed press release Dangote group keeps churning are just emotions, emotions and emotions .

NNPC/FG under Buhari had used so much propaganda to pollute peopleā€™s minds to the extent that they genuinely believe Dangote refinery (a private company that has its shareholders and management team who take business decisions with profit motive) will takeover the responsibility of subsidy (a socialist initiative ) which FG was running away from.

I can see Rufai has already conditioned his mind to believe ā€œcabals are after Dangote ā€œ šŸ˜‚. No matter how Kachikwu tries to disabuse his mind to focus on real issues; heā€™s bent on believing ā€œthe Malta connectionā€ being responsible for why Dangote doesnā€™t have crude .

NNPC too have their fault for not being transparent with details of the forward loans they took , how much they pledged, how much crude we have after deducting the crude repayment and the duration of the loans

7 Likes 2 Shares

Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by reccy(m): 7:41pm On Aug 13
embarassed embarassed embarassed

Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by GloriousGbola: 7:47pm On Aug 13
BlueRayDick:


God bless Dumebi Kachikwu; finally someone has to call it what it is. Most of the fault is on Dangote for failing to have relevant contracts signed for feedstock supply and a part of the blame is on NNPC/FG under Buhari that was busy selling hope that The Dangote Refinery NNPC/Dangote joint venture that is the solution to our oil problems.

I mentioned it the last time I was discussing with Monerozi and prospa that Dangote needs to provide an agreement/contract signed with NNPC pledging feedstock to him. In the oil and gas space nobody relies on gentleman agreements that are not enforceable either at arbitration or in law courts . Like Kachikwu rightly stated , players in the Oil and Gas space sign agreements years ahead before even commissioning the plant ( I know these things, in fact Iā€™ve been privileged to sight one of such documents between one of the players in the industry and its suppliers)

You didnā€™t build a 650,000bpd refinery designed to serve the west African market only to be relying on crude from NNPC that keeps entering into forward sales of untapped crude every eke market day. All those letter headed press release Dangote group keeps churning are just emotions, emotions and emotions .

NNPC/FG under Buhari had used so much propaganda to pollute peopleā€™s minds to the extent that they genuinely believe Dangote refinery (a private company that has its shareholders and management team who take business decisions with profit motive) will takeover the responsibility of subsidy (a socialist initiative ) which FG was running away from.

I can see Rufus has already conditioned his mind to believe ā€œcabals are after Dangote ā€œ šŸ˜‚. No matter how Kachikwu tries to disabuse his mind to focus on real issues; heā€™s bent on believing ā€œthe Malta connectionā€ being responsible for why Dangote doesnā€™t have crude .

NNPC too have their fault for not being transparent with details of the forward loans they took , how much they pledged, how much crude we have after deducting the crude repayment and the duration of the loans

One of the ways in which Nigerians brains have been thoroughly fked is they think businesses with significant capital outlay can be run as altruistic charity. To this day Nigerians hail adenuga for per second billing because they actually think he did it out of altruism.

But what can you expect in the country that gave us ajaoluta where people spent entire careers, collected pension and gratuity without delivering any value? The country that gave us nnpc kaduna.

Once you enter a business / industry you haven't worked in before there will be a learning curve and there will be mistakes. That is where dangote is right now.

As for rufai oseni, always keep in mind he is far from cerebral - he read Animal Anatomy & Physiology at the University of Agriculture, Abeokuta. He is not going to give you researched or deep dive takes - the best you will get from him is repeats of poorly informed layman takes

6 Likes 1 Share

Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by BlueRayDick: 8:21pm On Aug 13
GloriousGbola:


One of the ways in which Nigerians brains have been thoroughly fked is they think businesses with significant capital outlay can be run as altruistic charity. To this day Nigerians hail adenuga for per second billing because they actually think he did it out of altruism.

But what can you expect in the country that gave us ajaoluta where people spent entire careers, collected pension and gratuity without delivering any value? The country that gave us nnpc kaduna.

Once you enter a business / industry you haven't worked in before there will be a learning curve and there will be mistakes. That is where dangote is right now.

As for rufai oseni, always keep in mind he is far from cerebral - he read Animal Anatomy & Physiology at the University of Agriculture, Abeokuta. He is not going to give you researched or deep dive takes

It was really funny seeing Rufai not keeping calm to learn instead he was more interested in discussing the *Malta Debacle*. He was hassling the Kachikwu guy like the guy was APC/FG/NNPC spokesperson .

I believe they brought the guy in to share his perspective and also educate the public about the issues and non-issues over the whole Dangote Refinery matter . To me , Rufai was just seeing it as another opportunity to knock APC/FG for their numerous mess-ups.

The main issue : WHAT WAS DANGOTEā€™s PLAN ON SOURCING FEEDSTOCK ?

If he has any legal document/contract that FG has breached , let him enforce his right to seek redress through available channels . You donā€™t run such a multi-billion dollar venture on hope and ā€œTrust me bro, I go lie for u ? ā€œ šŸ˜‚

2 Likes

Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by liveLongNprospa(m): 8:26pm On Aug 13
Theflint1:
A perspective on the Dangote vs NNPC issue

Larride, LivelongnProspa, BlueRayDick, Izzou


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA7leQMzhFg



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibgzSu_Q2xI?si=HWnHPDXlP7xZxd54

Watch this too
Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by liveLongNprospa(m): 8:29pm On Aug 13
BlueRayDick:


It was really funny seeing Rufai not keeping calm to learn instead he was more interested in discussing the *Malta Debacle*. He was hassling the Kachikwu guy like the guy was APC/FG/NNPC spokesperson .

I believe they brought the guy in to share his perspective and also educate the public about the issues and non-issues over the whole Dangote Refinery matter . To me , Rufai was just seeing it as another opportunity to knock APC/FG for their numerous mess-ups.

The main issue : WHAT WAS DANGOTEā€™s PLAN ON SOURCING FEEDSTOCK ?

If he has any legal document/contract that FG has breached , let him enforce his right to seek redress through available channels . You donā€™t run such a multi-billion dollar venture on hope and ā€œTrust me bro, I go lie for u ? ā€œ šŸ˜‚

I thought the inability for NNPC to provide a certain amount of crude oil also was part of the reason their 20% reduced to 7% stake
Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by BlueRayDick: 8:43pm On Aug 13
liveLongNprospa:


I thought the inability for NNPC to provide a certain amount of crude oil also was part of the reason their 20% reduced to 7% stake

No na, u are conflating issues . That stake had nothing to do with availability of crude or no availability of crude .

NNPCā€™s stake in Dangote refinery is limited by shares which they paid-up to the tune of 7%. It was supposed to be 20%, NNPC paid for 7% and promised to pay the balance at a later date which they never did. That was why Dangote had to set record straight that NNPC has just 7% stake in his refinery . What it simply means is that if Dangote does business and makes profit , NNPC will get 7% of the profit declared as dividend to shareholders .

This has nothing to do with NNPC giving him crude or not.

I think what is responsible for all these confusion is how Buhariā€™s government was using Dangoteā€™s private refinery to run PR for itself while it lasted . So many people are disillusioned by the reality of things . Dangoteā€™s silence while the going was sweet also didnā€™t help matters

2 Likes

Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by GloriousGbola: 8:51pm On Aug 13
BlueRayDick:


No na, u are conflating issues . That stake had nothing to do with availability of crude or no availability of crude .

NNPCā€™s stake in Dangote refinery is limited by shares which they paid-up to the tune of 7%. It was supposed to be 20%, NNPC paid for 7% and promised to pay the balance at a later date which they never did. That was why Dangote had to set record straight that NNPC has just 7% stake in his refinery . What it simply means is that if Dangote does business and makes profit , NNPC will get 7% of the profit declared as dividend to shareholders .

This has nothing to do with NNPC giving him crude or not.

I think what is responsible for all these confusion is how Buhariā€™s government was using Dangoteā€™s private refinery to run PR for itself while it lasted . So many people are disillusioned by the reality of things . Dangoteā€™s silence while the going was sweet also didnā€™t help matters

to be fair though i think dangote had seriously been counting on that 20% for cash flow to complete the refinery. now the man is in a very hard place.

https://nairametrics.com/2024/07/14/breaking-nnpc-no-longer-owns-20-of-dangote-refinery-says-aliko-dangote/

Earlier this year, Nairametrics reported that the 2022 audited financial statement of the Nigerian National Petroleum Company (NNPC) Ltd contained information which showed that it had acquired a 20% stake in Dangote refinery for $2.76 billion through a $1.036 billion funding from Lekki Refinery Funding Limited of which $1 billion was paid to Dangote Refinery and $36 million was for transaction costs.

dangote likely needs 1.76 billion usd to ensure his refinery is fully operational.
Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by BlueRayDick: 8:58pm On Aug 13
GloriousGbola:


to be fair though i think dangote had seriously been counting on that 20% for cash flow to complete the refinery. now the man is in a very hard place.

https://nairametrics.com/2024/07/14/breaking-nnpc-no-longer-owns-20-of-dangote-refinery-says-aliko-dangote/



dangote likely needs 1.76 billion usd to ensure his refinery is fully operational.

Yeah, I understand . It appears he counted his chicks before they hatched .

He relied on funds NNPC donā€™t have readily available and donā€™t have prospect of raising considering so many obligations they are tied to fulfill.

Now they have left him behind !

*In Asari voice* Dem tear gas am! He fell, He fainted , he pass out; He pass out !

1 Like

Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by raumdeuter: 9:09pm On Aug 13
BlueRayDick:


God bless Dumebi Kachikwu; finally someone has to call it what it is. Most of the fault is on Dangote for failing to have relevant contracts signed for feedstock supply and a part of the blame is on NNPC/FG under Buhari that was busy selling hope that The Dangote Refinery NNPC/Dangote joint venture that is the solution to our oil problems.

I mentioned it the last time I was discussing with Monerozi and prospa that Dangote needs to provide an agreement/contract signed with NNPC pledging feedstock to him. In the oil and gas space nobody relies on gentleman agreements that are not enforceable either at arbitration or in law courts . Like Kachikwu rightly stated , players in the Oil and Gas space sign agreements years ahead before even commissioning the plant ( I know these things, in fact Iā€™ve been privileged to sight one of such documents between one of the players in the industry and its suppliers)

You didnā€™t build a 650,000bpd refinery designed to serve the west African market only to be relying on crude from NNPC that keeps entering into forward sales of untapped crude every eke market day. All those letter headed press release Dangote group keeps churning are just emotions, emotions and emotions .

NNPC/FG under Buhari had used so much propaganda to pollute peopleā€™s minds to the extent that they genuinely believe Dangote refinery (a private company that has its shareholders and management team who take business decisions with profit motive) will takeover the responsibility of subsidy (a socialist initiative ) which FG was running away from.

I can see Rufai has already conditioned his mind to believe ā€œcabals are after Dangote ā€œ šŸ˜‚. No matter how Kachikwu tries to disabuse his mind to focus on real issues; heā€™s bent on believing ā€œthe Malta connectionā€ being responsible for why Dangote doesnā€™t have crude .

NNPC too have their fault for not being transparent with details of the forward loans they took , how much they pledged, how much crude we have after deducting the crude repayment and the duration of the loans

This part in bold here is key

FG has sold a significant part of our future crude and the buyer is waiting, So where do they get enough for Dangote and at the same time enough to get funds for running the day to day govt

Dangote might need to speak to Tompolo if they have some crude supply for him, instead of selling stolen crude abroad
Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by BlueRayDick: 9:13pm On Aug 13
raumdeuter:


This part in bold here is key

FG has sold a significant part of our future crude and the buyer is waiting, So where do they get enough for Dangote and at the same time enough to get funds for running the day to day govt

Dangote might need to speak to Tompolo if they have some crude supply for him, instead of selling stolen crude abroad

šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚

Another angu ! He should have an arrangement with Tompolo to be arresting crude thieves and sending the seized crude to him instead of destroying the crude and vessel
Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by GloriousGbola: 9:15pm On Aug 13
raumdeuter:


This part in bold here is key

FG has sold a significant part of our future crude and the buyer is waiting, So where do they get enough for Dangote and at the same time enough to get funds for running the day to day govt

Dangote might need to speak to Tompolo if they have some crude supply for him, instead of selling stolen crude abroad

over to ibime - oya it is your time to broker agreement between dangote and tompolo - for naija, for energy security - so your guy can continue to stack his jerry cans. and for a small fee tongue
Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by Ibime(m): 11:26pm On Aug 13
BlueRayDick:

The main issue : WHAT WAS DANGOTEā€™s PLAN ON SOURCING FEEDSTOCK ?

If he has any legal document/contract that FG has breached , let him enforce his right to seek redress through available channels . You donā€™t run such a multi-billion dollar venture on hope and ā€œTrust me bro, I go lie for u ? ā€œ šŸ˜‚

BlueRayDick:

I think what is responsible for all these confusion is how Buhariā€™s government was using Dangoteā€™s private refinery to run PR for itself while it lasted . So many people are disillusioned by the reality of things . Dangoteā€™s silence while the going was sweet also didnā€™t help matters

I believe the nail must be having migraines by now cos you keep hitting it on the head.

Either Dangote has contract for supply of crude or he does not.

Na simple sturvs.

I don't believe anyone is compelled to do anything in business unless they have contractual agreement. Once you align with a suppliers profit motive or legal obligation, there is no need for long talk or reh reh reh. Business is not vibes and inshi-Allah.

The devil is in the detail here. Dangote may argue that Government has a moral obligation to subsidise the nations internal crude demand and supply crude in Naira at a discount. Is that crude demand 650,000 barrels (refinery capacity), 100,000 barrels or 200,000 barrels? Govt supplying anything above Nigerias internal demand is subsidising Dangotes profit margin, not Nigerians

Let's assume Nigerians only actually consume 100,000 barrels per day and NNPC supplies Dangote 650,000 barrells at discount. The excess 550,000 barrells will be exported at international market prices to Dangotes benefit. So it's important to establish Nigerias internal demand and only supply him that amount at discount if we are to agree that all Nigerians deserve a subsidy windfall as a result of our citizenship. We must be precise when dealing with numbers.

The honest truth is Dangote is only supplying diesel at the moment and Government has no historical moral obligation with its citizens to subsidise diesel for them. We may discuss FG providing petrol subsidy to its citizens via Dangote when Dangote is in a position to supply PMS. Until then, Dangote is a normal market participant like any other and must compete for supply like any other by paying the market price for supply.

The whole point of refinery is to make your profit by adding value through the refining process. The input price of crude should not matter unless you are a rent seeker. Your profit is the difference in price between refined crude and unrefined crude less your costs. If Dangote wants Nigerian crude, he should bid the right price. Anything else na story.

How many times have we read that dozens of ships with Nigerian crude are just parked in the high seas awaiting buyers who are not forthcoming from time to time. Dangote can have Nigerian crude if he pays the right price, what he wants is discount as always ontop say na Diesel him want produce and FG does not subsidise diesel.

11 Likes 4 Shares

Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by liveLongNprospa(m): 4:17am On Aug 14
Ibime:




I believe the nail must be having migraines by now cos you keep hitting it on the head.

Either Dangote has contract for supply of crude or he does not.

Na simple sturvs.

I don't believe anyone is compelled to do anything in business unless they have contractual agreement. Once you align with a suppliers profit motive or legal obligation, there is no need for long talk or reh reh reh. Business is not vibes and inshi-Allah.

The devil is in the detail here. Dangote may argue that Government has a moral obligation to subsidise the nations internal crude demand and supply crude in Naira at a discount. Is that crude demand 650,000 barrels (refinery capacity), 100,000 barrels or 200,000 barrels? Govt supplying anything above Nigerias internal demand is subsidising Dangotes profit margin, not Nigerians

Let's assume Nigerians only actually consume 100,000 barrels per day and NNPC supplies Dangote 650,000 barrells at discount. The excess 550,000 barrells will be exported at international market prices to Dangotes benefit. So it's important to establish Nigerias internal demand and only supply him that amount at discount if we are to agree that all Nigerians deserve a subsidy windfall as a result of our citizenship. We must be precise when dealing with numbers.

The honest truth is Dangote is only supplying diesel at the moment and Government has no historical moral obligation with its citizens to subsidise diesel for them. We may discuss FG providing petrol subsidy to its citizens via Dangote when Dangote is in a position to supply PMS. Until then, Dangote is a normal market participant like any other and must compete for supply like any other by paying the market price for supply.

The whole point of refinery is to make your profit by adding value through the refining process. The input price of crude should not matter unless you are a rent seeker. Your profit is the difference in price between refined crude and unrefined crude less your costs. If Dangote wants Nigerian crude, he should bid the right price. Anything else na story.

How many times have we read that dozens of ships with Nigerian crude are just parked in the high seas awaiting buyers who are not forthcoming from time to time. Dangote can have Nigerian crude if he pays the right price, what he wants is discount as always ontop say na Diesel him want produce and FG does not subsidise diesel.

But this issue has been trashed.
Dangote doesn't want discount ooo.
He wants to pay the actual price of crude and not the price the IOC state for him after adding multiple charges (which is against the PIA they all signed).

4 Likes

Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by Spy360(m): 4:36am On Aug 14
BlueRayDick:


God bless Dumebi Kachikwu; finally someone has to call it what it is. Most of the fault is on Dangote for failing to have relevant contracts signed for feedstock supply and a part of the blame is on NNPC/FG under Buhari that was busy selling hope that The Dangote Refinery NNPC/Dangote joint venture that is the solution to our oil problems.

I mentioned it the last time I was discussing with Monerozi and prospa that Dangote needs to provide an agreement/contract signed with NNPC pledging feedstock to him. In the oil and gas space nobody relies on gentleman agreements that are not enforceable either at arbitration or in law courts . Like Kachikwu rightly stated , players in the Oil and Gas space sign agreements years ahead before even commissioning the plant ( I know these things, in fact Iā€™ve been privileged to sight one of such documents between one of the players in the industry and its suppliers)

You didnā€™t build a 650,000bpd refinery designed to serve the west African market only to be relying on crude from NNPC that keeps entering into forward sales of untapped crude every eke market day. All those letter headed press release Dangote group keeps churning are just emotions, emotions and emotions .

NNPC/FG under Buhari had used so much propaganda to pollute peopleā€™s minds to the extent that they genuinely believe Dangote refinery (a private company that has its shareholders and management team who take business decisions with profit motive) will takeover the responsibility of subsidy (a socialist initiative ) which FG was running away from.

I can see Rufai has already conditioned his mind to believe ā€œcabals are after Dangote ā€œ šŸ˜‚. No matter how Kachikwu tries to disabuse his mind to focus on real issues; heā€™s bent on believing ā€œthe Malta connectionā€ being responsible for why Dangote doesnā€™t have crude .

NNPC too have their fault for not being transparent with details of the forward loans they took , how much they pledged, how much crude we have after deducting the crude repayment and the duration of the loans
Without arguing the accuracy of what you have stated here. My question is should Nigerians and the economy suffer because of a simple document Dangote is unable to provide?

If this were to be Saudi Arabia or Britain for example, would they use such bureaucracy to hamper their economic well being?

If Dangote refinery can help alleviate the problems Nigerians are facing then all the blame goes to the government.
Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by BlueRayDick: 5:21am On Aug 14
liveLongNprospa:


But this issue has been trashed.
Dangote doesn't want discount ooo.
He wants to pay the actual price of crude and not the price the IOC state for him after adding multiple charges (which is against the PIA they all signed).

This is another thing people are getting wrong ; THE PIA.

The PIA like some of Nigerian laws is another vague document that is not specific in addressing critical matters appropriately (matters the local allocation of crude u are referring to )

For example, the PIA was not clear/specific on the quantity of oil that must be allocated to local refineries . Nowhere in the act did it say local refineries must get all their crude from Nigeriaā€™s portion of crude.

So when NNPC is unable to give them the quantity they require , they have no choice but to refer them to IOCs operating in Nigeria . The IOCs unlike Dangote have a lot of forward contracts already signed with other refineries all over the world to supply them at the normal regular price . It is only normal for them to sell above premium to u at that point because u are in dire need of the crude .

I donā€™t the process our law makers use in drafting laws but I think they need to always carry relevant stakeholders along so that some of these laws can actually be specific and address the most critical issues . Itā€™s not just PIA if u check several other legislations like Electoral act, u will see vagueness and inconsistency in some of its provisions
Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by BlueRayDick: 5:33am On Aug 14
Spy360:

Without arguing the accuracy of what you have stated here. My question is should Nigerians and the economy suffer because of a simple document Dangote is unable to provide?

If this were to be Saudi Arabia or Britain for example, would they use such bureaucracy to hamper their economic well being?

If Dangote refinery can help alleviate the problems Nigerians are facing then all the blame goes to the government.

U need to watch the video and understand some things first . If u watch the video , it will disabuse ur mind and purge it of some preconceived misinformation that probably formed the basis upon which u are asking this question.

Thereā€™s a price for failure to plan and itā€™s usually costly . It is costlier for a multi-billion dollar business .

What u call simple document can make or mar ur business and all investments.

For ur information , all over the world thereā€™s no refinery that rely solely on crude from local sources as feedstock . Refineries all over the world source their crude from different sources . two of the largest refineries in the world are sighted in Singapore and South Korea yet, none of the two countries has proven oil reserves. It simply means they buy crude , refine and export fuel & its byproducts .

The government owned Kaduna refinery , before it commenced operations back then Nigeria entered into supply contract with Venezuela and Saudi Arabia to be supplying us crude for the refinery . Thatā€™s the standard practice , a refinery enters into contract if supply with suppliers years ahead so u donā€™t have a fully functional refinery with no feedstock to refine .

Permit me to ask ; which problem is the Dangote refinery (a private business ) supposed to alleviate ?
Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by BlueRayDick: 5:42am On Aug 14
Ibime:




I believe the nail must be having migraines by now cos you keep hitting it on the head.

Either Dangote has contract for supply of crude or he does not.

Na simple sturvs.

I don't believe anyone is compelled to do anything in business unless they have contractual agreement. Once you align with a suppliers profit motive or legal obligation, there is no need for long talk or reh reh reh. Business is not vibes and inshi-Allah.

The devil is in the detail here. Dangote may argue that Government has a moral obligation to subsidise the nations internal crude demand and supply crude in Naira at a discount. Is that crude demand 650,000 barrels (refinery capacity), 100,000 barrels or 200,000 barrels? Govt supplying anything above Nigerias internal demand is subsidising Dangotes profit margin, not Nigerians

Let's assume Nigerians only actually consume 100,000 barrels per day and NNPC supplies Dangote 650,000 barrells at discount. The excess 550,000 barrells will be exported at international market prices to Dangotes benefit. So it's important to establish Nigerias internal demand and only supply him that amount at discount if we are to agree that all Nigerians deserve a subsidy windfall as a result of our citizenship. We must be precise when dealing with numbers.

The honest truth is Dangote is only supplying diesel at the moment and Government has no historical moral obligation with its citizens to subsidise diesel for them. We may discuss FG providing petrol subsidy to its citizens via Dangote when Dangote is in a position to supply PMS. Until then, Dangote is a normal market participant like any other and must compete for supply like any other by paying the market price for supply.

The whole point of refinery is to make your profit by adding value through the refining process. The input price of crude should not matter unless you are a rent seeker. Your profit is the difference in price between refined crude and unrefined crude less your costs. If Dangote wants Nigerian crude, he should bid the right price. Anything else na story.

How many times have we read that dozens of ships with Nigerian crude are just parked in the high seas awaiting buyers who are not forthcoming from time to time. Dangote can have Nigerian crude if he pays the right price, what he wants is discount as always ontop say na Diesel him want produce and FG does not subsidise diesel.

Dangote understands that Nigerians hate Nigerian government more than they like the truth/facts and heā€™s using that to his utmost advantage .

He knows Nigerians would rather believe FG/NNPC/Cabals messed up instead of believing the fault is totally his for overly relying on governmentā€™s benevolence where he should be relying on contracts signed instead.
Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by monerozi5590: 6:20am On Aug 14
BlueRayDick:


God bless Dumebi Kachikwu; finally someone has to call it what it is. Most of the fault is on Dangote for failing to have relevant contracts signed for feedstock supply and a part of the blame is on NNPC/FG under Buhari that was busy selling hope that The Dangote Refinery NNPC/Dangote joint venture that is the solution to our oil problems.

I mentioned it the last time I was discussing with Monerozi and prospa that Dangote needs to provide an agreement/contract signed with NNPC pledging feedstock to him. In the oil and gas space nobody relies on gentleman agreements that are not enforceable either at arbitration or in law courts . Like Kachikwu rightly stated , players in the Oil and Gas space sign agreements years ahead before even commissioning the plant ( I know these things, in fact Iā€™ve been privileged to sight one of such documents between one of the players in the industry and its suppliers)

You didnā€™t build a 650,000bpd refinery designed to serve the west African market only to be relying on crude from NNPC that keeps entering into forward sales of untapped crude every eke market day. All those letter headed press release Dangote group keeps churning are just emotions, emotions and emotions .

NNPC/FG under Buhari had used so much propaganda to pollute peopleā€™s minds to the extent that they genuinely believe Dangote refinery (a private company that has its shareholders and management team who take business decisions with profit motive) will takeover the responsibility of subsidy (a socialist initiative ) which FG was running away from.

I can see Rufai has already conditioned his mind to believe ā€œcabals are after Dangote ā€œ šŸ˜‚. No matter how Kachikwu tries to disabuse his mind to focus on real issues; heā€™s bent on believing ā€œthe Malta connectionā€ being responsible for why Dangote doesnā€™t have crude .

NNPC too have their fault for not being transparent with details of the forward loans they took , how much they pledged, how much crude we have after deducting the crude repayment and the duration of the loans


I have trashed this issue already and I don't like repeating myself. Is your opinion. After all you even believed the lies of someone that doesn't like Dangote by saying Shell, Agip, etc have left Nigeria.

.....but please, can you tell me the propaganda Buhari did with Dangote refinery?

Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by liveLongNprospa(m): 6:37am On Aug 14
BlueRayDick:


This is another thing people are getting wrong ; THE PIA.

The PIA like some of Nigerian laws is another vague document that is not specific in addressing critical matters appropriately (matters the local allocation of crude u are referring to )

For example, the PIA was not clear/specific on the quantity of oil that must be allocated to local refineries . Nowhere in the act did it say local refineries must get all their crude from Nigeriaā€™s portion of crude.

So when NNPC is unable to give them the quantity they require , they have no choice but to refer them to IOCs operating in Nigeria . The IOCs unlike Dangote have a lot of forward contracts already signed with other refineries all over the world to supply them at the normal regular price . It is only normal for them to sell above premium to u at that point because u are in dire need of the crude .

I donā€™t the process our law makers use in drafting laws but I think they need to always carry relevant stakeholders along so that some of these laws can actually be specific and address the most critical issues . Itā€™s not just PIA if u check several other legislations like Electoral act, u will see vagueness and inconsistency in some of its provisions

I understand this but let us tackle these issues one after the other.

The DCSO in the PIA mandates the FG to ensure the necessary crude oil supply at market price to local refineries.
This document was agreed with the IOC's before it was passed as law.
They also know it exists outside of their existing deals.

The image below gives an understanding to what happens.
Before oil is sold outside Nigeria, the act states that Dangote has to first buy the amount of crude oil he deems necessary for the refinery. If the IOC's do not agree, the FG is mandated to not issue export permit.
They all agreed to it.

God see me dey fight for this mumu manšŸ™„


So the question is why is FG not doing that?
Dangote has not said he can't pay the market price for oil.
So wetin be the issue gan gan?
It's not illegal and the IOC's can't claim they don't know about it because they were all carried along during the development of the PIA.
Unless they come and tell Nigerians something new that we don't know sha

3 Likes

Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by BlueRayDick: 6:38am On Aug 14
monerozi5590:



I have trashed this issue already and I don't like repeating myself. Is your opinion. After all you even believed the lies of someone that doesn't like Dangote by saying Shell, Agip, etc have left Nigeria.

.....but please, can you tell me the propaganda Buhari did with Dangote refinery?

Most Nigerians believe Dangote refinery (a private business that is established with profit motives) will commence operation and make the after-effects of subsidy removal disappear. No disillusion surpasses that. A lot of people including u believe once Dangote comes on board PMS will be significantly cheaper simply because Dangote will be getting crude locally.

The same Buhari government entered into several forward sales for untapped crude . Now NNPC doesnā€™t have enough crude, Dangote is crying (for failing to plan properly ) and people think itā€™s the ā€œcabals ā€œ that are causing him to cry.

Even from ur position as of now sef, it appears u still believe the only reason u are not buying fuel for N200/liter is because Dangote is being frustrated from refining PMS locally šŸ˜‚
Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by liveLongNprospa(m): 6:41am On Aug 14
BlueRayDick:


This is another thing people are getting wrong ; THE PIA.

The PIA like some of Nigerian laws is another vague document that is not specific in addressing critical matters appropriately (matters the local allocation of crude u are referring to )

For example, the PIA was not clear/specific on the quantity of oil that must be allocated to local refineries . Nowhere in the act did it say local refineries must get all their crude from Nigeriaā€™s portion of crude.

So when NNPC is unable to give them the quantity they require , they have no choice but to refer them to IOCs operating in Nigeria . The IOCs unlike Dangote have a lot of forward contracts already signed with other refineries all over the world to supply them at the normal regular price . It is only normal for them to sell above premium to u at that point because u are in dire need of the crude .

I donā€™t the process our law makers use in drafting laws but I think they need to always carry relevant stakeholders along so that some of these laws can actually be specific and address the most critical issues . Itā€™s not just PIA if u check several other legislations like Electoral act, u will see vagueness and inconsistency in some of its provisions

The IOC's cannot fulfil their contracts because the DCSO in the PIA has been triggered.

That's the place Dangote has used to hold them.
The IOC's now have to drag FG for the windfall in oil production that has led to this, which is no fault of Dangote.

It's one thing to say we have high oil production so everybody can get oil easily. Sadly we don't and the PIA has created a DSCO (energy security) to address that part. Unless I am missing something here.
Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by BlueRayDick: 6:47am On Aug 14
liveLongNprospa:


I understand this but let us tackle these issues one after the other.

The DCSO in the PIA mandates the FG to ensure the necessary crude oil supply at market price to local refineries.
This document was agreed with the IOC's before it was passed as law.
They also know it exists outside of their existing deals.

The image below gives an understanding to what happens.
Before oil is sold outside Nigeria, the act states that Dangote has to first buy the amount of crude oil he deems necessary for the refinery. If the IOC's do not agree, the FG is mandated to not issue export permit.
They all agreed to it.

God see me dey fight for this mumu manšŸ™„


So the question is why is FG not doing that?
Dangote has not said he can't pay the market price for oil.
So wetin be the issue gan gan?
It's not illegal and the IOC's can't claim they don't know about it because they were all carried along during the development of the PIA.
Unless they come and tell Nigerians something new that we don't know sha

Let me ask u one question .

Letā€™s say thereā€™s an agreement between FG/NNPC and letā€™s say Shell for oil exploration and the agreement says Shell gets 40% and NNPC 60% of the crude explored.

Now the NNPC has obligations to repay those loans out of their 60% of the last crude tapped out of the ground; they also need to sell some to international refineries to make the country money etc .

If IOCs out of their 40% chose to favor their own customers which they have contracts signed with first and then offer Dangote crude at a premium price , is that a crime according to PIA ?
Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by BlueRayDick: 6:50am On Aug 14
liveLongNprospa:


The IOC's cannot fulfil their contracts because the DCSO in the PIA has been triggered.

That's the place Dangote has used to hold them.
The IOC's now have to drag FG for the windfall in oil production that has led to this, which is no fault of Dangote.

It's one thing to say we have high oil production so everybody can get oil easily. Sadly we don't and the PIA has created a DSCO (energy security) to address that part. Unless I am missing something here.

If u believe this , then why has Dangote not enforced this through arbitration or law courts ? Why is he coming to the court of public opinion ?
Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by Itsrm(m): 6:57am On Aug 14
BlueRayDick:


Let me ask u one question .

Letā€™s say thereā€™s an agreement between FG/NNPC and letā€™s say Shell for oil exploration and the agreement says Shell gets 40% and NNPC 60% of the crude explored.

Now the NNPC has obligations to repay those loans out of their 60% of the last crude tapped out of the ground; they also need to sell some to international refineries to make the country money etc .

If IOCs out of their 40% chose to favor their own customers which they have contracts signed with first and then offer Dangote crude at a premium price , is that a crime according to PIA ?

Looks like it is. Except Dangote is lying.

Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by liveLongNprospa(m): 6:59am On Aug 14
BlueRayDick:


If u believe this , then why has Dangote not enforced this through arbitration or law courts ? Why is he coming to the court of public opinion ?

I don't have to believe this.
It is the law.
Do you want me to send it to you?
Re: EPL Chatroom - All Discussions by liveLongNprospa(m): 7:01am On Aug 14
BlueRayDick:


Let me ask u one question .

Letā€™s say thereā€™s an agreement between FG/NNPC and letā€™s say Shell for oil exploration and the agreement says Shell gets 40% and NNPC 60% of the crude explored.

Now the NNPC has obligations to repay those loans out of their 60% of the last crude tapped out of the ground; they also need to sell some to international refineries to make the country money etc .

If IOCs out of their 40% chose to favor their own customers which they have contracts signed with first and then offer Dangote crude at a premium price , is that a crime according to PIA ?

All this doesn't matter bro.
The DCSO says before oil is taken out from Nigeria, it must first be sold to Nigerian refineries.


It's that straight forward.
It supercedes whatever contract obligations you have with customers outside Nigeria.
The definition of energy security.
The IOC's agreed to it.

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