budaatum:


A human being is a person.

Xavier5 is a human being who is a person.

An donkey is not a human being and is also not a person.

Since you can't define what a human life is... or what it means to be a person. Let's end the discussion. Have a nice day 🚶🚶🚶

As for the intrinsic value discussion, we will have it either later in the week or next week when I'm Chanced.


#Xavier

bemeruca:

please tell us what the below mean

OK so you admit I didn't write that it was good for the Nazis.

We were talking about the definition of murder. YOU brought up a definition that included the the word unlawful so I was pointing out to you that there was no legal impediment within the Nazi state to them killing the Jews. I never said it was good. I never said it was right. All I did was point out the path of their actions.

And once again, to clarify that this was all to aid my subjectivity argument, I contrasted the Nazi actions with that of the Allies, who definitely held the Nazis as murderers.

And to go back even further I wasn't even the one who brought up the Nazis.

Xavier5:


Since you can't define what a human life is... or what it means to be a person. Let's end the discussion.

What you are saying is, you are not accepting my definition of human life.

Do note!

bemeruca:


Honesty
Compassion
Respect
Integrity
Fairness
Responsibility
Love
Courage

Not intrinsic. Not even by a longshot.

budaatum:


How are those intrinsic when many humans do their exact opposite constantly?

Can you say honesty is intrinsic in a liar?

Is compassion intrinsic in a narcissist?

In fact, lets start with intrinsic. Tell me what intrinsic means to you please.

humans have an inherent capacity for violence and self-interest (e.g., in the "state of nature," life is "nasty, brutish, and short". , violence and the potential for murder are intrinsic to human behavior, but not necessarily moral values. In other words, while people might be naturally capable of committing acts like murder, that doesn't mean murder is morally intrinsic or justified.

- Thomas Hobbes

LordReed:
Maeve7, budaatum

It occurred to me that they might actually be referring to our instinctive drive for survival. But I don't consider that an intrinsic human value, it's a biological imperative like hunger pangs. What do you think?

His intrinsic value argument is based on Christian beliefs. Christianity is also the basis for what I can tell most if not all of his argument. It's the same form of "liberalism" that fueled the Catholics pro-life movement in the 70's.
Christians believe humans are created from the image of God and for HIS purpose. Hence the intrinsic value.

bemeruca:


- Thomas Hobbes

You are really funny, and to be honest, I think Hobbes is way beyond your level of comprehension.

From what you quoted, "violence and the potential for murder are intrinsic to human behavior", but "that doesn't mean murder is morally intrinsic .....".

Is violence intrinsic to your behaviour?

Do you have the potential to murder anyone?

In fact, is your life "nasty, brutish, and short", or are you letting Hobbes tell you it is?

bemeruca:


- Thomas Hobbes

And by the way, you have not answered the questions I asked you!

IjeBos:


His intrinsic value argument is based on Christian beliefs. Christianity is also the basis for what I can tell most if not all of his argument. It's the same form of "liberalism" that fueled the Catholics pro-life movement in the 70's.
Christians believe humans are created from the image of God and for HIS purpose. Hence the intrinsic value.

Mmmm. It's what Maeve7 said that got me thinking they may be conflating separate ideas or even coopting the survival instinct into their beliefs.

LordReed:


OK so you admit I didn't write that it was good for the Nazis.

We were talking about the definition of murder. YOU brought up a definition that included the the word unlawful so I was pointing out to you that there was no legal impediment within the Nazi state to them killing the Jews. I never said it was good. I never said it was right. All I did was point out the path of their actions.

And once again, to clarify that this was all to aid my subjectivity argument, I contrasted the Nazi actions with that of the Allies, who definitely held the Nazis as murderers.

And to go back even further I wasn't even the one who brought up the Nazis.

I did not admit it. you are doing what you are accusing me of. If I tell you to quote where I said you did not write "it was good for the nazis" can you? you will say response implies you did not say it. that is how I saw your post.

See what I said:

The Nazis didn't see it as murder?
When you take God out of the equation, you take objective morality out of the question.

News flash, if the nazis did not see it as murder, the rest of the world wouldn't see it like that. But there is this thing called objective morality(universal truth that transcends human subjectivity), which is why people are willing to fight and die to stop Germany.
What is even funny, is that people were sent to jail in Germany for murder before the killing of the Jews started. So how can they not see it as murder?


I don't know a parent who teaches his kids at 3 4 or 5 years not to kill. That is ingrained in us. Children in the womb of their parents knew something is out there that can kill them as well.

See what you replied:

Define murder

Me:

What does defining murder has to do with this?

But: Murder is the intentional and unlawful killing of one person by another with malice aforethought. It typically involves premeditation or a deliberate intent to cause death or serious harm. In legal terms, murder is distinguished from other forms of killing (such as manslaughter) by the presence of intent and the unlawful nature of the act.

See your reply:

UNLAWFUL. Which of the Nazi laws stopped them from killing the Jews?

this reply implies that it was okay for Nazis to kill the jews because there were no laws stoping them from doing it.

budaatum:


You are really funny, and to be honest, I think Hobbes is way beyond your level of comprehension.

From what you quoted, "violence and the potential for murder are intrinsic to human behavior", but "that doesn't mean murder is morally intrinsic .....".

Is violence intrinsic to your behaviour?

Do you have the potential to murder anyone?

In fact, is your life "nasty, brutish, and short", or are you letting Hobbes tell you it is?

define intrinsic

bemeruca:


I did not admit it. you are doing what you are accusing me of. If I tell you to quote where I said you did not write "it was good for the nazis" can you? you will say response implies you did not say it. that is how I saw your post.

See what I said:

See what you replied:
Me:


See your reply:


this reply implies that it was okay for Nazis to kill the jews because there were no laws stoping them from doing it.

I no where wrote it was good for the Nazis and I have repeatedly written that I said no such thing so if you want to keep strawmanning what I have repeatedly clarified then that's on you.

There is no such implication. You are conflating LEGAL with GOOD and that's on you. Legal is not always synonymous with good, you should have this always in your front pocket.

bemeruca:
define intrinsic

Should I define intrinsic after I asked you first and you haven't answered or before?

budaatum:
In fact, lets start with intrinsic. Tell me what intrinsic means to you please.

IjeBos:


His intrinsic value argument is based on Christian beliefs. Christianity is also the basis for what I can tell most if not all of his argument. It's the same form of "liberalism" that fueled the Catholics pro-life movement in the 70's.
Christians believe humans are created from the image of God and for HIS purpose. Hence the intrinsic value.

"Camouflage for some imaginary God", I called it. Like they want to bring their God in through the back door and hope we don't notice!

How I wish they wouldn't try to insult my intelligence by insulting themselves.

I've seen this floating around.
So, what's the deal with conservatives and raw milk this time?

Is this some kind of psyop to get these people to die of self inflicted food poisoning?

LordReed:


I no where wrote it was good for the Nazis and I have repeatedly written that I said no such thing so if you want to keep strawmanning what I have repeatedly clarified then that's on you.

There is no such implication. You are conflating LEGAL with GOOD and that's on you. Legal is not always synonymous with good, you should have this always in your front pocket.

You did not say it, that statement implies what the nazis did to the jews is not wrong because they did not break any law. if you say that is not what you mean I agree. which is why I asked you to explain it or make it clear. it is very open to interpretation.

when we are talking about subjective belief and you said that... based on the context I was not conflating anything.

budaatum:


You must show where buda said government must fund the abortion of basilico please, because, personally, I'm very willing to pay to abort you myself!

You never said that explicitly.What you've advocated for previously is worse than that.
If you ever visited P Diddy,it's hard to deny that Diddy dindu nothing to you because it's already a stinker.

For those who have been thinking Kamala Harris will be different from joe Biden, her response to the view settles the point she is part of Biden destroy America agenda. Talking to the lunatics of "The View"


Sunny Hostin:“If anything, would you have done something differently than President Biden during the past four years?”

Kamala Harris: “There is not a thing that comes to mind. And I’ve been a part of most of the decisions that have had an impact.”

Joe Biden crashed into a press conference the other day and confirmed that Kamala was part and parcel of decisions taken.
That happened when she has largely been trying to steal maga ideas and distance herself from the failed administration policies.

budaatum:


"Camouflage for some imaginary God", I called it. Like they want to bring their God in through the back door and hope we don't notice!

How I wish they wouldn't try to insult my intelligence by insulting themselves.

I'll disagree with the "imaginary God" part of your argument, but it is true his argument was somewhat of a camouflage. From the jump, I could tell whatever argument he made in support of his pro life position would have a religious undertone to it.

basilico:


You are Harvard material but everyone else here thinks little of you.

Well, you aren't Harvard material and everyone here thinks little of you.
Still rather be me, abi?

IjeBos:


Well, you aren't Harvard material and everyone here thinks little of you.
Still rather be me, abi?

Of course Few others believe that Joe Biden didn't rig, FBi is not corrupt, carbon dioxide causes global warming, IVM and HCL didn't help treat COVID , people are born gay, a man can be a woman, abortion is a family planning method, Kamala Harris is a not a Kamunist, Walz didn't lie about his military rank, covid vaccines work best with boosters, main stream media like CNN, MSNBC, wapo et al are honest and not biased, etc.
Completely opposite what I believe in, my mind is made up .
I don't care what you liberals think about me.

IMAliyu2:
I've seen this floating around.
So, what's the deal with conservatives and raw milk this time?

Is this some kind of psyop to get these people to die of self inflicted food poisoning?

Might be the same tactic 419ers use to weed out rational people so that those that remain are easier to con.

basilico:


You never said that explicitly.

You, basilico, are aborted for making up lies as you do.

Whistleblower
.Secret Service denying govt auditors documents for a very curious reason.

The useless Biden admin has a new one.
Trump is lying that FEMA aid has been diverted to illegal immigrants.

IMAliyu2:
I've seen this floating around.
So, what's the deal with conservatives and raw milk this time?

Is this some kind of psyop to get these people to die of self inflicted food poisoning?

6,000 likes for a clearly misinformed post. MAGA.

LordReed:


BTW didn't you oppose vaccine mandates? Was that not society's autonomy on display?

"You" as in me? or "You" as in Republicans, or "You" as in "anti-vaxers" or "You" as in Liberals?

I certainly know I'm me and me is Liberal.

I don't know where I opposed vaccine mandates. Afterall, I have vaccines running through my viens and watch in horror as a certain demographic who refused to take them keep producing kids with body deformities---of the outrageous kind. To top it off, these kids were inbreeding. It's a horror house!

Like I said, I can go to the pharmacist and demand for prescription drug without a prescription, but society exercises it's autonomy over mine. Suppose we were on the brink of extinction, pro-abortion laws will also be revoked and society becomes pro-life. That's just the way it is.

Abortion, in our society isn't the norm. Since it's an new development, it's up to it's champions to come up with arguments to convince society to accept it. Either that or they employ the governments autonomy to enforce it.

You can't enter building and tell somebody who believes babies are gifts from God that the "baby is like a parasite." Haba!

That argument won't cut it.

CBS 60 minutes took 36 hours to upload video of Kamala Harris interview. They edited out her word salads,
What kind of journalism is this? There should be repercussions.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1843664856446316758

This is the edited full version CBS uploaded.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJys7OVH24E

Why this should be allowed beats me.Alvin Bragg case Trump was accused of the crime of killing a story from being published . It was a crime to deny voters the right to make their choice , according to the sham trial.
We have not forgotten how they killed the laptop from hell story.
Jackboot also charged Trump with a conspiracy to deny voters their right of votes to be counted as though there were no grounds of coordinated and massive fraud.

kkins25:


"You" as in me? or "You" as in Republicans, or "You" as in "anti-vaxers" or "You" as in Liberals?

I certainly know I'm me and me is Liberal.

I don't know where I opposed vaccine mandates. Afterall, I have vaccines running through my viens and watch in horror as a certain demographic who refused to take them keep producing kids with body deformities---of the outrageous kind. To top it off, these kids were inbreeding. It's a horror house!

Like I said, I can go to the pharmacist and demand for prescription drug without a prescription, but society exercises it's autonomy over mine. Suppose we were on the brink of extinction, pro-abortion laws will also be revoked and society becomes pro-life. That's just the way it is.

Abortion, in our society isn't the norm. Since it's an new development, it's up to it's champions to come up with arguments to convince society to accept it. Either that or they employ the governments autonomy to enforce it.

You can't enter building and tell somebody who believes babies are gifts from God that the "baby is like a parasite." Haba!

That argument won't cut it.

Ah, ok. I thought it was you who said back in Covid19 era that you didn't support the vaccine mandates.

Are you strawmanning me? Did I ever use the word parasite to describe the fetus?

Humans have been performing abortions since the prehistoric age when we only had herbs to aid us so no abortion is not a recent development.

basilico:
CBS 60 minutes took 36 hours to upload video of Kamala Harris interview. They edited out her word salads,
What kind of journalism is this? There should be repercussions.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1843664856446316758

This is the edited full version CBS uploaded.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJys7OVH24E

Why this should be allowed beats me.Alvin Bragg case Trump was accused of the crime of killing a story from being published . It was a crime to deny voters the right to make their choice , according to the sham trial.
We have not forgotten how they killed the laptop from hell story.
Jackboot also charged Trump with a conspiracy to deny voters their right of votes to be counted as though there were no grounds of coordinated and massive fraud.

So you've seen the unedited version? Where did you see it if so?

wirinet:

The supposed guests are not yet your own children, you are yet to meet them physically.[b] I might not have engage in coitus out of my free will, my coitus might have been a result of rape, inebriation by alcohol or drugs,

I'm not considering that context.

or share raw uncontrollable sex instincts taking control.

Interesting. I can see lawyers exploiting these "sex instincts" to defend rapists. I wouldn't go there.

Its not every time a woman engage in coitus that she will to get pregnant.

I don't understand. You mean nature is forcing a woman to have sex and then getting pregnant through hormones?

Agreed, but the imposition of millions of unwanted children is detrimental to society as a whole. Its leads to gradual erosion of the fabrics of society. This was why Rome imposed monogamous marriage where both parents are to raise their children upon its empire.

I'm actually not pro-life. That's because I somewhat hold a nihilistic view of life in general. I also value life based on how it relates to me or my values. For example, If I were to press a lever that would save 5 Atheists, but doing so would lead to the demise of 1 million Muslims, I'd push the "save the Atheist" lever. You see. Pro-abortionists would call me a murderer but, I'm simply spinning their arguments against them. some people value the fetus just like I value Atheists.


I'm not particularly arguing against abortion, I'm just trying to point out that the arguments for abortion, aside from that of rape and minors, aren't a solid one. Or, rather, not convincing.

Can you answer this though, If an unborn child is not your "child" yet, why do all states agree to check for viability before even agreeing to contemplate carrying out an abortion on a 24-week-old fetus? Why not abort an 8-month-old fetus? why not just wait until delivery and then unalive the baby? We can go on and on about the metaphysics.

For example, see this act:

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-212) is a United States law that recognizes an embryo or fetus in utero as a legal victim if they are injured or killed during the commission of any of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence. The law defines "child in utero" as "a member of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb."[1]

It's just semantics. So, there's no objective inherent value of human life. Maybe tomorrow, some people may want the right to unalive their fresh out of the womb child. who knows? At that time, today's pro-choice will be the pro-life. hahahaha.. Society!!

LordReed:


Ah, ok. I thought it was you who said back in Covid19 era that you didn't support the vaccine mandates.

We already have mandates for other vaccines. The Vaccine in that context was COVID vaccine.

[quotes] Are you strawmanning me? Did I ever use the word parasite to describe the fetus? [/quote] That's just one of the theories often used.

Humans have been performing abortions since the prehistoric age when we only had herbs to aid us so no abortion is not a recent development.

Yes, I'm aware. Our society is predominantly Christian and Muslim now, and the values have changed.