Ohyoudidnt:


The result of killing someone is death or dying isn't it? What plausible explanation for the presence of kill in that verse if it has no relation to dying of both the body and soul?

Are your Bible authors simply playing with words?

I don't understand U. Is there a word called spirit in that verse.

MightySparrow:


Are we discussing biology now?
. why are you a Muslim?

You made a claim below:

MightySparrow:


You qouted a reference nah!

Check my signature.
It is hypocrisy to quote a reference you don't believe in for the sake of winning an argument.

And I showed we how we've quoted so many things we do not believe!

Stop the diversions and answer the OP! Olodo upon ten!

SIRTee15:


Was the procreation in heaven or earth?

If on earth, that means they incarnated and took upon real human nature like Jesus?

Did the Father ever incarnate into a real human body?

Did God drink Adeboye's tea on earth or in heaven?

GothamCities:


The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one. However, all administration resides in the Father. The three have one mind. The Father is the Administrator while the Son is the Executor. The Holy Spirit is the Operator or 'Manifestor'.

For example, whatever the Father wants to do, He simply Speaks it. The Son who is the Word of the Father goes out to make it happen. The Holy Spirit then manifests what the Word (Son) has accomplished.

Isaiah 34:16 says:
“His mouth has commanded it and His Spirit hath gathered them.”

This verse above shows the Trinity in action. His mouth commands. That's the Word sent out. His Spirit gathers or manifests what the Word has accomplished.

This is what Jesus meant. Whatever the Father does in His Mind is carried out by the Son and manifested by the Holy Ghost.

The Father administers the universe through His Word (The Son) and His Holy Spirit.

This is simply your interpretation that lacks explicit references from your Bible. However you really tried a little.

But it still falls short of explaining the OP! You even created another set of problems by mentioning the trinity!

1. So the father had already eaten in mind before Jesus ate?

2. The father had already died in his mind before Jesus died?

3. The father had already risen before Jesus rose from the dead?

4. The father already wept before Jesus wept in John 11:35?

5. And if the three are one and one i.e. the son died how are they still one?

6. If the father and the spirit has never died nor become man, doesn't that mean Jesus is superior to them? " The father is greater than I" Jesus said!

7. Lastly you contradicted yourself in the statements in bold. In the first you wrote the father was speaking it for Jesus to act. In the latter you said the father does it in his mind then Jesus acts. This is due to your own exegesis which is not established upon any biblical fact.

AntiChristian:

Jesus doesn't understand Greek! The new testament was written in Greek not Hebrew!

Jesus surely understands Greek language very well because in the first century the Romans were ruling Israel after the fall of Greece but before then the Greeks have colonized many countries including Israel so the official language of all those living around the Mediterranean Sea was Greek that's why the New Testament was written in Greek.
Jesus a child born and raised under that colony must be able to speak the language that most people around understood just as your own child today will speak English yet you are not English!

SIRTee15:


I don't understand U. Is there a word called spirit in that verse.

The verse doesn't say spirit but soul and I put it to you that there is no difference between the two. You claim otherwise but cannot prove it.

SIRTee15:


First let's start with definition of trinity.
What is your understanding of trinity according to Christians.

Outside what I have restated for you of Father, son and holy spirit being coequal, one and the same?

Take it that I don't know and convincingly tell me all there is to know unless you are reneging on your earlier statement.

SIRTee15:


First let's start with definition of trinity.
What is your understanding of trinity according to Christians.

Do tell me all if you are sure there's no confusion of the understanding according to Christians

MaxInDHouse:

Jesus surely understands Greek language very well because in the first century the Romans were ruling Israel after the fall of Greece but before then the Greeks have colonized many countries including Israel so the official language of all those living around the Mediterranean Sea was Greek that's why the New Testament was written in Greek.
Jesus a child born and raised under that colony must be able to speak the language that most people around understood just as your own child today will speak English yet you are not English!

Yeah! That's why he would rather say Eli Eli than speak Greek! What your proof he understood Greek from the Bible?

Eli Eli lama sabachthani is a proof of a language! Jesus was local and never communicated with external persons who do not understand his first language!

TenQ:

Hevis running away from answering my questions

I already answered those with sense!

SIRTee15:


Bible differentiates btw soul and spirit. According to the bible, the spirit of man return to God. It doesn't die.

Did the fallen angels procreate in heaven or on earth?

If it was on earth, that mean they incarnated into real human nature right?

So how's that different from ordinary men.

The question is can a spirit procreate, can a spirit die?

Even the Bible talks of Jesus being troubled in spirit and soul in different verses without clearly differentiating between them. John 12:27 and John 13:21

Does your Bible clearly tell you the Angels incarnated as man before procreating with women? This seems to be your exclusive explanation from the limited Bible of sirtee15. Where can I get a copy?

AntiChristian:

Yeah! That's why he would rather say Eli Eli than speak Greek! What your proof he understood Greek from the Bible?
Eli Eli lama sabachthani is a proof of a language! Jesus was local and never communicated with external persons who do not understand his first language!

Jesus was talking to his God in that verse that is why he spoke in his mother's tongue nah but if he has to speak with Pontius Pilate a Roman Governor {John 18:33-48} he must use the lingua franca!

MaxInDHouse:


Jesus was talking to his God in that verse that is why he spoke in his mother's tongue nah but if he has to speak with Pontius Pilate a Roman Governor {John 18:33-48} he must use the lingua franca!

Who told you the Roman governor doesn't understand Jesus's language? Didn't he also communicate with the commoners?

AntiChristian:

Who told you the Roman governor doesn't understand Jesus's language? Didn't he also communicate with the commoners?

The Roman Governor doesn't need to speak the language of those he is governing just as British governors sent to Nigeria during colonial era doesn't need to speak either Hausa, Ibo or Yorùbá before resuming office!

MaxInDHouse:

The Roman Governor doesn't need to speak the language of those he is governing just as British governors sent to Nigeria during colonial era doesn't need to speak either Hausa, Ibo or Yorùbá before resuming office!

Then a translator is employed!

AntiChristian:

Then a translator is employed!

That's why literacy became part of the criteria to appoint traditional rulers when the British colonized us but centuries before the time of Jesus the Greek language has been the lingua franca commonly spoken around the Mediterranean Sea.
So if you can't speak the elite's Greek language you should at least be able to speak ponia (pidgin Greek) whoever can't speak both surely have a problem because when such a person is unfairly treated nobody will get a translator for him or her!

MaxInDHouse:

That's why literacy became part of the criteria to appoint traditional rulers when the British colonized us but centuries before the time of Jesus the Greek language has been the lingua franca commonly spoken around the Mediterranean Sea.
So if you can't speak the elite's Greek language you should at least be able to speak ponia (pidgin Greek) whoever can't speak both surely have a problem because when such a person is unfairly treated nobody will get a translator for him or her!

The British a hundred or two years ago is difficult from the Romans over 2000 years ago!

Some people like Paul/Saul have dual names since they are registered as partly Roman!

Jesus was completely local!

AntiChristian:


You made a claim below: And I showed we how we've quoted so many things we do not believe!

Stop the diversions and answer the OP! Olodo upon ten!

That would be dishonesty nah. Imagine you qoute a none existing authority or paper or a thing not relevant or not credible or reliable to acquire a degree, your research would be unreliable and of no use in any place. Moreso, if in medical field or engineering, you would be a killer - reseacher.

Now that you are doing taquiyya with facts, how do you mean?

MaxInDHouse:

Jesus surely understands Greek language very well because in the first century the Romans were ruling Israel after the fall of Greece but before then the Greeks have colonized many countries including Israel so the official language of all those living around the Mediterranean Sea was Greek that's why the New Testament was written in Greek.
Jesus a child born and raised under that colony must be able to speak the language that most people around understood just as your own child today will speak English yet you are not English!

Antichristian is doing taquiyya with words. He tries to rubbish the Bible like his mentors (Yussuf Adepọju, Adegbuwa, Zakir Naik, Ahmed Deedat, Shabby Ally, Mohammed Hijab...). The annoying thing is that he shows abysmal ignorance than knowledge he wants to show.


In a response below, he was saying how could Jesus be saying Eli, Eli, antichristian himself is a Yoruba man and has not forgotten his own language despite English is Nigeria's official language.

AntiChristian:

The British a hundred or two years ago is difficult from the Romans over 2000 years ago!
Some people like Paul/Saul have dual names since they are registered as partly Roman!
Jesus was completely local!

It has always been the same format when we are talking about foreigners ruling over indigins the language recognized by the rulers comes first.
Paul was well educated his name is Saul but later his Christian brothers began calling him Paul. As for Jesus he is a Jew taught to speak the language that other children around him could relate with just as your own child will speak both your language and English because that will help him a lot in his career or business!

MaxInDHouse:

It has always been the same format when we are talking about foreigners ruling over indigins the language recognized by the rulers comes first.
Paul was well educated his name is Saul but later his Christian brothers began calling him Paul. As for Jesus he is a Jew taught to speak the language that other children around him could relate with just as your own child will speak both your language and English because that will help him a lot in his career or business!

Was Jesus also educated like Paul and Luke? Show me sir, i want to learn! My children speak English and Arabic because they attend such schools that teaches it.

MightySparrow:


Antichristian is doing taquiyya with words. He tries to rubbish the Bible like his mentors (Yussuf Adepọju, Adegbuwa, Zakir Naik, Ahmed Deedat, Shabby Ally, Mohammed Hijab...). The annoying thing is that he shows abysmal ignorance than knowledge he wants to show.

In a response below, he was saying how could Jesus be saying Eli, Eli, antichristian himself is a Yoruba man and has not forgotten his own language despite English is Nigeria's official language.

No need to collaborate with MAX who you don't ordinarily agree with!
Comment on the OP with your shallow IQ.
Stop relying on others and claim you have one Holy Spirit!

MightySparrow:


That would be dishonesty nah. Imagine you qoute a none existing authority or paper or a thing not relevant or not credible or reliable to acquire a degree, your research would be unreliable and of no use in any place. Moreso, if in medical field or engineering, you would be a killer - reseacher.

Now that you are doing taquiyya with facts, how do you mean?

See the brain of a Homo Sapiens in 2024?

Chai! Idiotic to say the least!

AntiChristian:


See the brain of a Homo Sapiens in 2024?

Chai! Idiotic to say the least!

No honest answer?

AntiChristian:


No need to collaborate with MAX who you don't ordinarily agree with!
Comment on the OP with your shallow IQ.
Stop relying on others and claim you have one Holy Spirit!

No meaningful response?

MightySparrow:



No honest answer?

I would have answered a brainy individual!

MightySparrow:


No meaningful response?

You have answered the OP yet!

AntiChristian:


This is simply your interpretation that lacks explicit references from your Bible. However you really tried a little.

But it still falls short of explaining the OP! You even created another set of problems by mentioning the trinity!

1. So the father had already eaten in mind before Jesus ate?

2. The father had already died in his mind before Jesus died?

3. The father had already risen before Jesus rose from the dead?

4. The father already wept before Jesus wept in John 11:35?

5. And if the three are one and one i.e. the son died how are they still one?

6. If the father and the spirit has never died nor become man, doesn't that mean Jesus is superior to them? " The father is greater than I" Jesus said!

God does not operate the way you think. His way are higher than yours. Whatever is in God's mind, He does it through His Word.

If you want to build a house, how do you build it? You conceive it first in your mind, then you start speaking, and actions then follow. Your bank, architects, surveyors, masons, etc all begin to act on what you have said. Is that not it? The only difference is that God's Word is a being while yours is not. The Holy Spirit acts on the Word to bring it to pass.

7. Lastly you contradicted yourself in the statements in bold. In the first you wrote the father was speaking it for Jesus to act. In the latter you said the father does it in his mind then Jesus acts. This is due to your own exegesis which is not established upon any biblical fact.

There's no contradiction. You simply don't comprehend. The Word is not separate from God. The Word goes forth and performs. There's nothing like "When God speaks, then the Word will do..." God sends the Word to do what is in His mind. The Word does what is in God's mind. Jesus is the Word of God covered in fresh.

GothamCities:
God does not operate the way you think. His way are higher than yours. Whatever is in God's mind, He does it through His Word.

So tell us where God showed you explicitly how He operates?

If you want to build a house, how do you build it? You conceive it first in your mind, then you start speaking, and actions then follow. Your bank, architects, surveyors, masons, etc all begin to act on what you have said. Is that not it? The only difference is that God's Word is a being while yours is not. The Holy Spirit acts on the Word to bring it to pass.

Where did God Himself specifically mention His word as a being? Show us the proofs for all these theories from God Himself!

There's no contradiction. You simply don't comprehend. The Word is not separate from God. The Word goes forth and performs. There's nothing like "When God speaks, then the Word will do..." God sends the Word to do what is in His mind. The Word does what is in God's mind. Jesus is the Word of God covered in flesh.

Conceiving an action in the mind and speaking it out are two different things! But you claim it is no contradiction so why are you hiding your proofs till now?

AntiChristian:
So tell us where God showed you explicitly how He operates?

Read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and you'll immediately notice the pattern. I gave you a scripture verse yesterday. Look into it too.

See these Scriptures too:

When God wanted to heal, what did He do?

"He sent His word and healed them, and delivered them from their destruction." - Psalm 107:20

He sent His Word.

God sends His Word on errands:

"So shall My Word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it."

Where did God Himself specifically mention His word as a being? Show us the proofs for all these theories from God Himself!

Wrong question. Where did God specifically mention Himself as a Being? That's the first question. God never mentioned Himself as being a Being, did He? We know because of what He does. He behaves like a Being. The Word behaves like a Being too. The Spirit behaves like Being. God has never said "Hey, I'm a Being." Or "hey, My Word is a Being." The same way your father never told you he's a being. You know he's a being by your interactions with him. I know the Word is a Being by my interactions with the Word.

In Christendom. We don't go by letters but by Revelation. Your eyes need to be open to see what ordinary men cannot see in the Scriptures. Revelation is the real food of the spirit. Not mere letters which you wrestle with on a daily basis. Infact, the Word itself has nothing to offer man. It's Revelation that flourishes the spirit and the soul of man, and also heals his body. If the Word is not revealed to you, you can never see anything. You'll only come online all day to create threads that will never profit your soul.

But you see, by the time we got to John, 1, we have a declaration that the Word was covered with flesh and dwelt among men. Then, in the book of Revelation, John himself saw the Word:

Revelation 19:12-13

"His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God."

Conceiving an action in the mind and speaking it out are two different things! But you claim it is no contradiction so why are you hiding your proofs till now?

You still don't get it. Once God conceives an action in His mind, the Word goes forth to make it happen. It's not that God thinks, then speaks, then the word starts doing. No.

See it this way: if your children understand your body language, they'll know exactly what you want done and go do it.

It's in the Father's mind which is the same as the Son's {The Word} mind, the Word just goes forth and does it. When the Word is doing it, that's the Father speaking. When the Holy Ghost is manifesting it, that's the Father at work.

Ohyoudidnt:


Do tell me all if you are sure there's no confusion of the understanding according to Christians

I want U to tell me what U think is trinity.
because when I bring the evidence , I don't want U shifting goalpost and redefining trinity.
Trust me, this debate won't go beyond a page, the rest will be U arguing against evidence.

Ohyoudidnt:


Outside what I have restated for you of Father, son and holy spirit being coequal, one and the same?

Take it that I don't know and convincingly tell me all there is to know unless you are reneging on your earlier statement.

One and the same in what? U have debated Christians long enough.
U should do better than this...