TenQ:
The wages of sin is death!
People who commit sin go to the lake of fire!
Babies don't commit sin: for theirs is the kingdom of God.

I believe I have told you that if you want to open a new thread, feel free. The issue here is the hadith at stake.

Here is the hadith again.


Sunan Abi Dawud 4717
‘Amir reported the Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) as saying :
The woman who buries alive her new-born girl and the girl who is buried alive both will go to Hell. This tradition has also been transmitted by Ibn Mas’ud from the Prophet (May peace be upon him) to the same effect through a different chain of narrators



Does this hadith say that these murdered babies with their mothers are going to hell?

It is a YES or NO answer!

Maybe you have to pay more attention to your Bible than Quran

Lemme re list the verses in the Bible that clearly states that babies are born sinful. I have posted them before but it looks like you can't concentrate

Romans 5:12
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned

Romans 3:23
for all(including babies and adults) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Job 14:4,
“Who can produce someone clean from someone unclean? No one can!”

Psalm 51:5,
“Look! I was born guilty of error (sin), And my mother conceived me in sin.”

So from the above verses, are babies sinless or not? And what is the reward for sin?
So imagine a baby dies soon after birth. Where does the Bible say such babies go to?
Again I'm not asking of your view. I'm asking for THE BIBLE VIEW

TenQ:
Mr advocatejare
I believe the above was for Antichristian!

LOL!
He indeed fled the scene!
Not all lies are defendable!

Yeah, it was for AntiChristian. He lied as usual that you fled when every evidence shows that he was the one that fled

jaephoenix:

Maybe you have to pay more attention to your Bible than Quran

Lemme re list the verses in the Bible that clearly states that babies are born sinful. I have posted them before but it looks like you can't concentrate

Romans 5:12
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned

Romans 3:23
for all(including babies and adults) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Job 14:4,
“Who can produce someone clean from someone unclean? No one can!”

Psalm 51:5,
“Look! I was born guilty of error (sin), And my mother conceived me in sin.”

So from the above verses, are babies sinless or not? And what is the reward for sin?
So imagine a baby dies soon after birth. Where does the Bible say such babies go to?
Again I'm not asking of your view. I'm asking for THE BIBLE VIEW

Sorry!
Open your own thread or answer my question!

It's your call!

advocatejare:

Yeah, it was for AntiChristian. He lied as usual that you fled when every evidence shows that he was the one that fled

Don't mind him.

Like their father the devil, so they are with respect to lies!

TenQ:

Sorry!
Open your own thread or answer my question!

It's your call!

Lol 😆
Bro don dodge
Anyway, at least folks have seen youre clueless in your attack of Muslims

jaephoenix:

Lol 😆
Bro don dodge
Anyway, at least folks have seen youre clueless in your attack of Muslims

I asked you a basic question on the hadith in question only for you to attempt to change the discussion without answering my question.
You are free to create your own topic otherwise, get off this thread!

TenQ:

The point I am making is this:
You made your point that you don't believe the 13.8billion year age of the universe as "speculated" by scientists
Thus I ask
1. What is your belief about the age of the universe?

Typical believer question, thinking everyone must believe something like they do.

I do not have beliefs about the age of the universe! It was so long ago that having beliefs about it that even those who propose an age call speculative is just ignorant.

Its like believing the first human being was Adam even though the Bible that makes that claim states clearly that before Adam was the creation of both male and female in God's image, and the evidence shows humans evolved from previous humanoids, just as the universe likely evolved from a previous state.

budaatum:


Typical believer question, thinking everyone must believe something like they do.

I do not have beliefs about the age of the universe! It was so long ago that having beliefs about it that even those who propose an age call speculative is just ignorant.

Its like believing the first human being was Adam even though the Bible that makes that claim states clearly that before Adam was the creation of both male and female in God's image, and the evidence shows humans evolved from previous humanoids, just as the universe likely evolved from a previous state.

Only normal humans have beliefs not based just on their feelings.

But you have clearly shown that even though you claim not to have beliefs, you make plans for short term and long term periods. Meaning that you probably don't understand what it means to have beliefs!

Note your inconsistencies:
You claim not to have beliefs yet
1. You speak of humans evolving from previous humanoids,.. borrowing from you, is evolution not a speculative biology ?
2. You claim that universe likely evolved from a previous state....is this another speculative conclusion?
What are your evidences for these two statements above or I put it to you that your beliefs have no iota of foundational basis!

How do you call a student who doesn't have any idea about the solution to a problem but is the greatest "rejector" of other people's solutions?

TenQ:

Only normal humans have beliefs not based just on their feelings.

But you have clearly shown that even though you claim not to have beliefs, you make plans for short term and long term periods. Meaning that you probably don't understand what it means to have beliefs!

Note your inconsistencies:
You claim not to have beliefs yet
1. You speak of humans evolving from previous humanoids,.. borrowing from you, is evolution not a speculative biology ?
2. You claim that universe likely evolved from a previous state....is this another speculative conclusion?
What are your evidences for these two statements above or I put it to you that your beliefs have no iota of foundational basis!

You equate beliefs to be the same as factual evidence based knowledge. Things that I believe are things I am not certain or sure of or have not checked and indeed "have no iota of foundational basis" for. One does not "likely" "claim". The fact I said "likely", which was intentional, shows it is indeed speculative. You must please call me very ignorant if I make a "claim" about what might have happened 13.7 billion years ago.

I may for instance, believe I have a billion pounds in my bank account, but as soon as I check my bank balance I would have immense foundational basis of evidence and would need to stop believing and instead know whether I have a billion pounds in my bank account or not. Hopefully, you can see how ignorant I would need to be to be arguing how much is in my bank account without actually checking in order to have foundational basis of evidence.

If I claim to "believe" in the existence of God, I would be saying I am not certain there is God. Its one reason I get to laugh at believers. If I were them, I would know my God exists and live accordingly. And I would expect to be burnt on the spot if I dare not love my neighbour.

Evolution is not speculative biology! There is sufficient evidence out there to show that humans evolved, and you asking for evidence is just lazy of you, since you can very easily educate yourself with Google. In fact, if you read your Bible starting from the beginning and go page by page to the very end you'd even see brimstone and fire God evolving into gentle and meek Jesus Christ, but I do understand that believers find that as hard to comprehend as threading a camel through the eye of a needle. Its the same difficult you are experiencing in evolving your understanding of your own subject in this thread. I mean, do you really believe anyone believes they are going to hell for anything? How about for not loving one's neighbour? Would your god give you a waiver for hating your Muslim neighbours?

The fact is, even you admit that something big must have made something go bang. You call it God, while I say you are filling a gap of ignorance.

budaatum:


You equate beliefs to be the same as factual evidence based knowledge. Things that I believe are things I am not certain or sure of or have not checked and indeed "have no iota of foundational basis" for. One does not "likely" "claim". The fact I said "likely", which was intentional, shows it is indeed speculative. You must please call me very ignorant if I make a "claim" about what might have happened 13.7 billion years ago.

This 13.8 billion years was actually based on calculations sir!
All humans live by sets of belief systems.

This is why you can board a plane believing that the Pilot is qualified to fly the plane. You believe that the plane wouldn't crash on the way.

Except you don't know what it means to have a Belief!

budaatum:

I may for instance, believe I have a billion pounds in my bank account, but as soon as I check my bank balance I would have immense foundational basis of evidence and would need to stop believing and instead know whether I have a billion pounds in my bank account or not. Hopefully, you can see how ignorant I would need to be to be arguing how much is in my bank account without actually checking in order to have foundational basis of evidence.

This isn't belief but insanity.

Every belief is based on having good reasons to take a particular position and a reasonable statistical probability that your position is correct.

What reasons will make you believe you have a billion pounds in your account? If you can neither give a good reason or having a reasonable statistical probability for such, your claim is just a wish.

budaatum:

If I claim to "believe" in the existence of God, I would be saying I am not certain there is God. Its one reason I get to laugh at believers. If I were them, I would know my God exists and live accordingly. And I would expect to be burnt on the spot if I dare not love my neighbour.

Coming from a person who doesn't know God nor believe in Him, you have no idea.

This is why you wouldn't know the difference between Belief and Faith!

The knowledge of God is never Absolute because no one can fully comprehend God enough to fully know Him.

budaatum:

Evolution is not speculative biology! There is sufficient evidence out there to show that humans evolved, and you asking for evidence is just lazy of you, since you can very easily educate yourself with Google. In fact, if you read your Bible starting from the beginning and go page by page to the very end you'd even see brimstone and fire God evolving into gentle and meek Jesus Christ, but I do understand that believers find that as hard to comprehend as threading a camel through the eye of a needle. Its the same difficult you are experiencing in evolving your understanding of your own subject in this thread. I mean, do you really believe anyone believes they are going to hell for anything? How about for not loving one's neighbour? Would your god give you a waiver for hating your Muslim neighbours?

All you need to do is to show how a species evolved into another species and you would prove that evolution biology is not speculative.

Evolution of species in biology takes place supposedly over millions of years.

budaatum:


The fact is, even you admit that something big must have made something go bang. You call it God, while I say you are filling a gap of ignorance.

Even if you don't want to call the Prime mover of the Universe by the title God, it is impossible to escape the fact based on the laws of nature that an Uncaused First-Cause of Everything is the origin of everything.

Why?
Change only occurs when there is a cause and it is impossible to have an infinite regress of cause and effect
If you understand this alone, you will stop all your rejection of God as the alternative does not make sense.

TenQ:

This 13.8 billion years was actually based on calculations sir!
All humans live by sets of belief systems.

The 13.7 billion years is speculative. Those who came up with it admit as much, so it is rather ignorant for one to believe what those who propose it don't believe. But then, that is not unusual for many.

A bridge is built based on calculations, and you believe the bridge will stand based on those calculations. The calculations themselves are not "sets of beliefs", but empirically tested mathematical evidence based on bridges that have been built and that still stand. You never know if the bridge will stand until you've actually built and tested it.

Humans who live by beliefs are ignorant. They cry to heaven for their daily bread instead of feeding themselves by the sweat off their brow. If you go outside their houses you will see the gutters in which they breed the mosquitoes that suck their blood and kill them. If you check their life expectancy, you'd find it is much lower than that of nations who choose to live by knowledge. And such believers tend to end up as naked slaves like Adam, making food for the gods.

The British who brought us the Bible did not believe they were created from mud anymore after years of being enslaved to Rome their masters by ignorant beliefs. By the time they got on their boats and arrived at your shores they were singing what evolved into Rule Britannia, because some 200 or so years prior they'd got to understand (or chose to believe) that they were no more slaves to Rome, afraid of nourishing themselves with knowledge because it would kill them, but chose to change their beliefs to being created in God's image and could eat as much fruits of knowledge as their hearts desire and it would not kill them. That's what then enabled them to set forth from their tiny island to "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it and rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground", such that, at one time the sun never set on the British empire. Basically, they stopped believing, and instead asked questions and knocked and sought answers with their own hearts and souls and minds so that they may know, instead of letting Rome feed them crappy beliefs that only profited Rome.

And that is what you would one day do, I hope. Instead of asking me to provide you with evidence, which is you just asking me to preach and spoonfeed you, you will do your own research so that you actually know. And then, greater things will you indeed do than you currently are doing.

budaatum:
If I want you to appreciate new born babies and not bury them at birth in 7AD, I'd tell you you and the baby will go to hell in order to deter you.

I'm aware it wouldn't work in 2024AD though, and would think you were being absurd if you still thought there was even a hell for you to go to.

Maybe so the mother can breastfeed the baby 🙄😁

I just dey confused or na insomnia cause am?

Crazy musulmen... 🤣

Smh

correctguy101:


Maybe so the mother can breastfeed the baby 🙄😁

I just dey confused or na insomnia cause am?

Crazy musulmen... 🤣

Smh

LOL!
Best answer so far!
Blood and Sweat did not reveal this to you but Jibril or Mohammed himself!
LOL!

budaatum:


The 13.7 billion years is speculative. Those who came up with it admit as much, so it is rather ignorant for one to believe what those who propose it don't believe. But then, that is not unusual for many.

Says Buda, the professor of Astronomy who seems not to realise that he is the one throwing wild baseless speculations as fact!

budaatum:

A bridge is built based on calculations, and you believe the bridge will stand based on those calculations. The calculations themselves are not "sets of beliefs", but empirically tested mathematical evidence based on bridges that have been built and that still stand. You never know if the bridge will stand until you've actually built and tested it.

Buda doesn't seem to understand that parameters and not figures set the rules of engineering beliefs.

budaatum:

Humans who live by beliefs are ignorant.

-Says Buda who sleeps while making plans for the next day!
-Says Buda who boards a plane believing that the Pilot is well trained to fly the plane
-Says Buda who accepts Doctors prescription and diagnosis without having to learn his own medicine
-Says Buda who believes in evolution despite never witnessing a single species evolving into another

Indeed, is Buda calling himself Human who doesn't know he lives by Believing?

budaatum:

And that is what you would one day do, I hope. Instead of asking me to provide you with evidence, which is you just asking me to preach and spoonfeed you, you will do your own research so that you actually know. And then, greater things will you indeed do than you currently are doing.

And I hope that one day, you will not use yourself as your own standard of Belief for this is the greatest of all sin. This is Independence from the Source of Existence! At death Buda shall truely KNOW that he had believed using the "wrongest" set of criteria!

TenQ:
At death Buda shall truely KNOW that he had believed using the "wrongest" set of criteria!

I'm very certain you say this only because you have died and met you imaginary maker and come back to tell buda about it.

If you knew your god existed your entire heart would be full of love for your Nairaland neighbours instead of the hatred you have shown in this thread to those who believe in a different book to your own.

budaatum:


I'm very certain you say this only because you have died and met you imaginary maker and come back to tell buda about it.

If you knew your god existed your entire heart would be full of love for your Nairaland neighbours instead of the hatred you have shown in this thread to those who believe in a different book to your own.

The definition of Love is certainly not agreeing that Evil, Deception and Spiritual Sickness befall those around us.

A person who claims to love but watch his neighbour enter into destruction is the worst human in existence.

Buda, in the name of Love I will do as much as tie you up to prevent you from eating Poison from your enemy!
FYI: those who think I should be passive to your case are in union with this enemy!

TenQ:

Buda, in the name of Love I will do as much as tie you up to prevent you from eating Poison from your enemy!
FYI: those who think I should be passive to your case are in union with this enemy!

Thankfully, buda is not subject to you nor need your protection from your imaginary boogey god, and will have you arrested for kidnapping buda.

And to be honest, I do fear for the children you might go on to have, for I can just about see you doing this in your god's name.

TenQ:

A person who claims to love but watch his neighbour enter into destruction is the worst human in existence.

You are, by the way, no different from isis boko haram jihadists.

They too force their warped ideology on others in the name of saving them.

budaatum:


Thankfully, buda is not subject to you nor need your protection from your imaginary boogey god, and will have you arrested for kidnapping buda.

And to be honest, I do fear for the children you might go on to have, for I can just about see you doing this in your god's name.

I think you should fear for your existence now and later.
The fact that I do my best that you would not perish does not mean that you don't have your will.
Exercise your will because you have understanding and not because you are ignorant!

Birds of the same family!

budaatum:


You are, by the way, no different from isis boko haram jihadists.

They too force their warped ideology on others in the name of saving them.

I just wonder how a hopeless mass of stardust meat becomes a moral police.
According to the rule of your master "the prince of this world", what does it matter to you?

I understand why you came to bail out your fellow from another mother and it is amusing!


For your information, the hadith was:

Prophet Mohammad said:

Sunan Abi Dawud 4717
‘Amir reported the Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) as saying :
The woman who buries alive her new-born girl and the girl who is buried alive both will go to Hell. This tradition has also been transmitted by Ibn Mas’ud from the Prophet (May peace be upon him) to the same effect through a different chain of narrators

The Muslims say that according to this hadith:
The Babygirl would not enter the fire but the midwife who buried her.
Birds of the same feather!

TenQ:

I asked you a basic question on the hadith in question only for you to attempt to change the discussion without answering my question.
You are free to create your own topic otherwise, get off this thread!

I'm not here to defend the Muslims. You know I'm an atheist. The point I'm tryna make is that you have no grounds to attack the Muslims based on how flawed their book is, when in fact, your own book is also a sorry mess

jaephoenix:

I'm not here to defend the Muslims. You know I'm an atheist. The point I'm tryna make is that you have no grounds to attack the Muslims based on how flawed their book is, when in fact, your own book is also a sorry mess

It is glaringly obvious that You are here to defend Muslims!

The question I asked was simple and direct based on their hadith.

For your information, the hadith from www.sunnah.com was:

Sunan Abi Dawud 4717
‘Amir reported the Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) as saying :
The woman who buries alive her new-born girl and the girl who is buried alive both will go to Hell. This tradition has also been transmitted by Ibn Mas’ud from the Prophet (May peace be upon him) to the same effect through a different chain of narrators


The Muslims say that according to this hadith:
The Babygirl would not enter the fire but the midwife who buried her.

According to you who claim to be impartial, Is this a TRUE statement from the hadith?

TenQ:

It is glaringly obvious that You are here to defend Muslims!

The question I asked was simple and direct based on their hadith.

For your information, the hadith from www.sunnah.com was:

Sunan Abi Dawud 4717
‘Amir reported the Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) as saying :
The woman who buries alive her new-born girl and the girl who is buried alive both will go to Hell. This tradition has also been transmitted by Ibn Mas’ud from the Prophet (May peace be upon him) to the same effect through a different chain of narrators


The Muslims say that according to this hadith:
The Babygirl would not enter the fire but the midwife who buried her.

According to you who claim to be impartial, Is this a TRUE statement from the hadith?

Maybe you have comprehension issues. Lemme rephrase…
Both the Bible and Quran are error-strewn books. So there are no grounds for Christians to castigate Muslims, vice versa.
So asking me if a particular verse in the Hadith is legit, is useless.
My point is Christians commenting in this thread and pointing at the Quran is dvmb since the Bible itself is poorly written with errors and lies

jaephoenix:

Maybe you have comprehension issues. Lemme rephrase…
Both the Bible and Quran are error-strewn books. So there are no grounds for Christians to castigate Muslims, vice versa.
So asking me if a particular verse in the Hadith is legit, is useless.
My point is Christians commenting in this thread and pointing at the Quran is dvmb since the Bible itself is poorly written with errors and lies

I don't respect people who avoid the truth!
Have a nice day

TenQ:

I don't respect people who avoid the truth!
Have a nice day

Hehehehe lol 😆
What truth did I avoid?
Lame ass excuse

jaephoenix:

Hehehehe lol 😆
What truth did I avoid?
Lame ass excuse

Your conscience (if you still have one) is your judge

TenQ:

Your conscience (if you still have one) is your judge

He has dodged finally
I know Muslims are reading this and know what a clueless dude you are. Next time, read that your clueless Bible properly before jumping out to attack Muslims. Your Babble even said to remove the log in your eyes before looking at the speck in another person's eye

jaephoenix:

He has dodged finally
I know Muslims are reading this and know what a clueless dude you are. Next time, read that your clueless Bible properly before jumping out to attack Muslims. Your Babble even said to remove the log in your eyes before looking at the speck in another person's eye

My Babble said what!?
Clowns of the same father!

TenQ:

My Babble said what!?
Clowns of the same father!

Matthew 7:5
Like I said, the time you spend online attacking Muslims would be better spent actually perusing this clusterfuck of a book called the Bible