PerfectView:
If we read these verses literally, Genesis 1:31 says that God was satisfied that everything in creation was good, and Genesis 6:6 says that God later realised that this was not the case. That means that at the time of creation, God did not know what the future would be—he was not omniscient. What is your view about this?

I view this passages as anthropopathic—using human terms to describe God's actions in ways we can understand.

God is omniscient, meaning He knew from the beginning how history would unfold. Genesis 6:6, which speaks of God "regretting" or being "grieved," is often understood as a way of expressing His moral displeasure with human sin, not a sign that He lacked foreknowledge. This aligns with the idea that God's regret is relational, showing His sorrow over humanity’s choices rather than indicating a change in His knowledge or nature.

Thankgod89:


I view this passages as anthropopathic—using human terms to describe God's actions in ways we can understand.

God is omniscient, meaning He knew from the beginning how history would unfold. Genesis 6:6, which speaks of God "regretting" or being "grieved," is often understood as a way of expressing His moral displeasure with human sin, not a sign that He lacked foreknowledge. This aligns with the idea that God's regret is relational, showing His sorrow over humanity’s choices rather than indicating a change in His knowledge or nature.

Precisely.

How people don't see it just amazes me

MaxInDHouse:
He never claimed omniscient it's humans with their presumptuousness who are saying all that!

That’s an interesting take. However, many scriptures in the Bible describe God as all-knowing. For example, Psalm 147:5 says, "Great is our Lord and abundant in power; His understanding is beyond measure." And 1 John 3:20 states, "God is greater than our heart, and He knows everything."

Would you say these verses suggest omniscience, or do you interpret them differently?

Kobojunkie:
In the period between Genesis 1vs 31 and Genesis 6 vs 6, we also learn that YHWH, who later introduces Himself as God of Israel, cursed all that He created after man fell. Can that which is cursed remain good?

I thought you were seriously smart, honestly. I see people who critique scriptures as smart people, but you have disappointed that idea, now I will pay much attention and critique the critic. You absolutely haven't read the bible well.
I should probably not respond to you but for the sake of people who will view this thread.

Concerning the cursing of the ground.
It can be understood as God telling Adam a natural consequence of Adam's actions—much like how breaking a law leads to punishment, not because the law enforcer directly harms you, but because that’s the outcome of your actions.

The Biblical Context

In Genesis 3:17, God says:
"Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life."

The phrase "because of you" suggests that the ground was not cursed by an arbitrary divine act but as a result of Adam’s disobedience.

It aligns with a recurring biblical theme: sin brings consequences, sometimes indirectly.



Another case would be that of Pharaoh:
Did God Directly Harden Pharaoh’s Heart?

At first glance, Exodus 9:12 says:

> "But the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not listen to them, just as the Lord had spoken to Moses."



This makes it sound like God forced Pharaoh to be stubborn. But if we look deeper, we see a pattern:

1. Pharaoh hardened his own heart first

Exodus 8:15 – “But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not listen to them.”

Exodus 8:32 – “But Pharaoh hardened his heart this time also, and he did not let the people go.”

Exodus 9:34 – “But when Pharaoh saw that the rain, hail, and thunder had ceased, he sinned yet again and hardened his heart. ”
Here it says he sinned yet again


2. Later, God hardened Pharaoh’s heart further

Exodus 9:12 – “The Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart.”

Exodus 10:20, 10:27, 11:10 – Repeats that God hardened Pharaoh’s heart.




What This Means

Pharaoh made his own choice first. He was already rejecting God.

God simply reinforced what Pharaoh had already decided.

This aligns with the principle of consequences. Just like Adam faced the natural results of his sin, Pharaoh was given over to his own stubbornness.


The Biblical Pattern

This idea shows up elsewhere in Scripture:

Romans 1:24-26 – “God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity.”

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 – “God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false.”

Actually use your brain when reading scriptures, ask questions, what's the context, is this a figure of speech, if it is, what type, is this some form of ancient tradition, is it influenced by the translators culture and traditions, language?

It's just like a parent who tells his child not to do evil and the child goes on to do it repeatedly, and the parent says "Okay, have your way". The child will find out the consequences of the evil actions.

Nachmonides:
➜I thought you were seriously smart, honestly. I see people who critique scriptures as smart people, but you have disappointed that idea, now I will pay much attention and critique the critic. You absolutely haven't read the bible well.
I should probably not respond to you but for the sake of people who will view this thread.
Concerning the cursing of the ground.
It can be understood as God telling Adam a natural consequence of Adam's actions—much like how breaking a law leads to punishment, not because the law enforcer directly harms you, but because that’s the outcome of your actions.
The Biblical Context
In Genesis 3:17, God says:
"Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life."
The phrase "because of you" suggests that the ground was not cursed by an arbitrary divine act but as a result of Adam’s disobedience.
It aligns with a recurring biblical theme: sin brings consequences, sometimes indirectly.
Another case would be that of Pharaoh:
Did God Directly Harden Pharaoh’s Heart?

At first glance, Exodus 9:12 says:
> "But the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not listen to them, just as the Lord had spoken to Moses."
This makes it sound like God forced Pharaoh to be stubborn. But if we look deeper, we see a pattern:
1. Pharaoh hardened his own heart first
Exodus 8:15 – “But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not listen to them.”
Exodus 8:32 – “But Pharaoh hardened his heart this time also, and he did not let the people go.”
Exodus 9:34 – “But when Pharaoh saw that the rain, hail, and thunder had ceased, he sinned yet again and hardened his heart. ”
Here it says he sinned yet again
2. Later, God hardened Pharaoh’s heart further
Exodus 9:12 – “The Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart.”

Exodus 10:20, 10:27, 11:10 – Repeats that God hardened Pharaoh’s heart.What This Means

Pharaoh made his own choice first. He was already rejecting God.

God simply reinforced what Pharaoh had already decided.

This aligns with the principle of consequences. Just like Adam faced the natural results of his sin, Pharaoh was given over to his own stubbornness.


The Biblical Pattern

This idea shows up elsewhere in Scripture:

Romans 1:24-26 – “God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity.”

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 – “God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false.”

Actually use your brain when reading scriptures, ask questions, what's the context, is this a figure of speech, if it is, what type, is this some form of ancient tradition, is it influenced by the translators culture and traditions, language?

It's just like a parent who tells his child not to do evil and the child goes on to do it repeatedly, and the parent says "Okay, have your way". The child will find out the consequences of the evil actions.

I am still allergic to Religious gobbledegook, so stop inundating me with your meaningless drivels!

ichuka:

Everything being very good doesn't mean perfection.the creation in genesis was a prototype to the real deal, which is Christ.
Prototype might be good or even very good,that doesn't make it the reality on ground. Perfection is from Christ(the second Adam)not Adam in prototype in genesis(first Adam)

I wouldn't say a prototype, a prototype is indeed the original model from which other versions are derived, but not necessarily the final perfected version. It serves as the basis or foundation for the final product, often used to test, refine, and improve upon.


If we say Adam was the prototype based on this, we are saying that God used Adam to test, refine, and improve upon his mistakes or shortcomings, whereas scriptures tell us Christ had been the plan of God even before the foundations of the world, before he even created Adam. So therefore Christ was first in the mind of God, not Adam.

However, we also cannot use the word prototype for Jesus, even though he is the first born, the model, the pattern for all mankind, because prototype suggests it's not the final perfected version and there'd be a refining, testing, improving.

I'd say we should use what scriptures use:
The Greek word "πρωτότοκος" (prototokos) is generally translated as "firstborn," but its meaning is more nuanced than just chronological order. It primarily conveys preeminence, supremacy, or superiority, rather than just being a prototype in the modern sense of an initial model.

Meaning of "πρωτότοκος" (Prototokos)

1. Firstborn in Rank and Preeminence
In biblical context, "πρωτότοκος" does not necessarily refer to the first to be born in a literal, chronological sense. Instead, it emphasizes rank and superiority. In the ancient world, the firstborn was granted authority over the family or inheritance, symbolizing supremacy and leadership.

Colossians 1:15-18 uses "πρωτότοκος" to describe Christ as the firstborn of all creation. This indicates His supremacy over all creation, not merely that He was the first created being. Christ is the preeminent one, having authority over all things.

Kobojunkie:
I am still allergic to Religious gobbledegook, so stop inundating me with your meaningless drivels!

If you don't read it's fine. In fact, it's absolutely alright.

I just had to comment because people who read this thread may see your comment and have doubts as well, so I had to clarify for them.

ichuka:


Rom8:29...
For those whom He "FOREKNEW", He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters;
He knew Adam will sin before He created him,He then made provision for redemption through Himself.becoming the last man/second Adam.

So sin and suffering and death was the plan of God from the beginning Even before he created man?

Sirmwill:

Even If it is possible that Adam could choose to not sin even with his freedom, he sinned by going against that law
And every other descendants up to the time of the Israelites had the Law of Moses to live by which was not easy.In fact no one could keep it.
Read the book of Romans first three chapters to avoid asking unnecessary questions on this as your answers are there.

Then

Jesus had to come to give another set of commandments that was easier to follow
Read Luke Chapter 6 and John Chapter 15 to see those commandments.

How could Adam had sinned by going against the law according to your submission up there?

Dtruthspeaker:


For you to say has issues means it was perfect before when it was created.

And fixing it means I am redeeming it. Same way God created us perfect and then Satan caused us to have damaging issues. And now God is coming to redeem us.

So stop mixing up the processes.

No it was good or very good doesn't make it perfect.our perfection is in Christ only.

Truthseeker10:

So sin and suffering and death was the plan of God from the beginning Even before he created man?

God already FOREKNEW that His created beings(angels and man) would sin before His creation.through there disobedience.and in the Godhead before creation I believe there's nothing like obedience(because God is God and there's nothing to obey to) He FOREKNEW it in the beginning.since there's no constituents of obedience in Him because of who He is, the creation of angels and man was good but can't be perfect.
I believe He Has a deficiency of obedience in the beginning.
In Heb5:8.. says,..Although He was a Son, He LEARNED OBEDIENCE from the things which He suffered.
so God learnt obedience.meaning obedience was created by the Son of God.
Creation in genesis was good but it was perfected or completed on the cross when He
said "it's finished" perfecting what He started in genesis on Calvary.

Nachmonides:


I wouldn't say a prototype, a prototype is indeed the original model from which other versions are derived, but not necessarily the final perfected version. It serves as the basis or foundation for the final product, often used to test, refine, and improve upon.


If we say Adam was the prototype based on this, we are saying that God used Adam to test, refine, and improve upon his mistakes or shortcomings, whereas scriptures tell us Christ had been the plan of God even before the foundations of the world, before he even created Adam. So therefore Christ was first in the mind of God, not Adam.

However, we also cannot use the word prototype for Jesus, even though he is the first born, the model, the pattern for all mankind, because prototype suggests it's not the final perfected version and there'd be a refining, testing, improving.

I'd say we should use what scriptures use:
The Greek word "πρωτότοκος" (prototokos) is generally translated as "firstborn," but its meaning is more nuanced than just chronological order. It primarily conveys preeminence, supremacy, or superiority, rather than just being a prototype in the modern sense of an initial model.

Meaning of "πρωτότοκος" (Prototokos)

1. Firstborn in Rank and Preeminence
In biblical context, "πρωτότοκος" does not necessarily refer to the first to be born in a literal, chronological sense. Instead, it emphasizes rank and superiority. In the ancient world, the firstborn was granted authority over the family or inheritance, symbolizing supremacy and leadership.

Colossians 1:15-18 uses "πρωτότοκος" to describe Christ as the firstborn of all creation. This indicates His supremacy over all creation, not merely that He was the first created being. Christ is the preeminent one, having authority over all things.

Hi bro, please can you explain Hebrew5:8 for us,in view of the topic.
Thanks

Nachmonides:
➜If you don't read it's fine. In fact, it's absolutely alright. I just had to comment because people who read this thread may see your comment and have doubts as well, so I had to clarify for them.

Posting religious gobbledegook aka meaningless bullsheet delivers people from doubts? Are you OK at all?

ichuka:

God already FOREKNEW that His created beings(angels and man) would sin before His creation.through there disobedience.and in the Godhead before creation I believe there's nothing like obedience(because God is God and there's nothing to obey to) He FOREKNEW it in the beginning.since there's no constituents of obedience in Him because of who He is, the creation of angels and man was good but can't be perfect.
I believe He Has a deficiency of obedience in the beginning.
In Heb5:8.. says,..Although He was a Son, He LEARNED OBEDIENCE from the things which He suffered.
so God learnt obedience.meaning obedience was created by the Son of God.
Creation in genesis was good but it was perfected or completed on the cross when He
said "it's finished" perfecting what He started in genesis on Calvary.

🤣🤣you are funny....so God made a flaw in creating man? So who do we blame for the sin of man, Adam or God?

Kobojunkie:
Posting religious gobbledegook aka meaningless bullsheet delivers people from doubts? Are you OK at all?

Go and rest, you're not wise.

Nachmonides:
➜Go and rest, you're not wise.

You mean brain-f-cked, right? Look who's talking abeg ! 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

Truthseeker10:

🤣🤣you are funny....so God made a flaw in creating man? So who do we blame for the sin of man, Adam or God?

No He didn't, the last man was He's intent from the beginning but there must be a kind of prototype that will lead to the main being which is Christ.
Jeremiah18:
1The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying, 2“Arise and go down to the potter’s house, and there I will announce My words to you.” 3So I went down to the potter’s house, and there he was, making something on the wheel. 4But the vessel that he was making of clay was spoiled in the hand of the potter; so he remade it into another vessel, as it pleased the potter to make.
The first vessel wasn't perfect and the potter needs perfection in His vessel, so it has to be remade .

ichuka:

Hi bro, please can you explain Hebrew5:8 for us,in view of the topic.
Thanks

You'd have to formulate your question properly so I don't assume. The topic is about God's omniscience.

ichuka:

No He didn't, the last man was He's intent from the beginning but there must be a kind of prototype that will lead to the main being which is Christ.
Jeremiah18:
1The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying, 2“Arise and go down to the potter’s house, and there I will announce My words to you.” 3So I went down to the potter’s house, and there he was, making something on the wheel. 4But the vessel that he was making of clay was spoiled in the hand of the potter; so he remade it into another vessel, as it pleased the potter to make.
The first vessel wasn't perfect and the potter needs perfection in His vessel, so it has to be remade .

So is God responsible and to blame for the sin suffering and death of mankind?

Nachmonides:


You'd have to formulate your question properly so I don't assume. The topic is about God's omniscience.

Ok
Why would Jesus who is God and the creator of Heavens and earth learn obedience?
Why would God learn something?

Truthseeker10:

So is God responsible and to blame for the sin suffering and death of mankind?

Nope He's not

ichuka:

Nope He's not

So who is responsible?

Truthseeker10:

So who is responsible?

Whoever sins dies.
So He came took our sins/imperfections and dies in our place.perfecting the imperfections in us.

ichuka:

Whoever sins dies.
So He came took our sins/imperfections and dies in our place.perfecting the imperfections in us.

You are funny....how did sin enter the world?

ichuka:

Ok
Why would Jesus who is God and the creator of Heavens and earth learn obedience?
Why would God learn something?

That's a very interesting question, if we all read the Bible cover to cover before really asking questions, I opine that this type of question would not surface at all.


Alright.
We read scriptures contextually, the writer of Hebrews saying Jesus learned Obedience is not something new, especially since Jesus is referred to as the Last Adam.

Similar to Hebrews 5:8 is Romans 5:19 (Greek);

ὥσπερ γὰρ διὰ τῆς παρακοῆς τοῦ ἑνὸς ἀνθρώπου ἁμαρτωλοὶ κατεστάθησαν οἱ πολλοί, οὕτως καὶ διὰ τῆς ὑπακοῆς τοῦ ἑνὸς δίκαιοι κατασταθήσονται οἱ πολλοί.

Transliteration:
hōsper gàr dià tēs parakoēs toû henòs anthrṓpou hamartōloì katestáthēsan hoi polloí, hoútōs kaì dià tēs hypakoēs toû henòs díkaiōi katastathḗsontai hoi polloí.

"For as by the one man's [b]disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous[/b]".

Adam - Disobeyed
Jesus - Obeyed

It doesn't tell us of an acquisition of knowledge, a learning in the modern sense that we understand it. It simply means one disobeyed what was said or instructed or commanded, the other obeyed what was said or instructed or commanded.




If that's not enough, let's analyze the very Hebrews 5:8 (Greek);
καίπερ ὢν Υἱός, ἔμαθεν ἀφ' ὧν ἔπαθεν τὴν ὑπακοήν

Transliteration:
kaíper ōn Hyiós, émathen aph’ hōn épathen tḕn hypakoḗn

"Though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered."

The phrase "He learned obedience" in Hebrews 5:8 does not imply learning in the traditional sense, as if Jesus gained new intellectual knowledge. Instead, it refers to experiential learning—a deeper, lived-out understanding through real-life experience.

Greek Word for "Learned" – ἔμαθεν (emanthen)

The Greek word "emanthen" (ἔμαθεν) comes from manthanō, which means to learn, to come to know, or to experience. While it can mean acquiring new knowledge, in this context, it refers to experiencing something firsthand rather than simply learning intellectually.





On the other hand, the greek word for the traditional learning, teacher-student, classroom-like learning, modern learning is;
μανθάνω (manthanō - μανθάνω). - The Greek word for "learning" in the sense of acquiring knowledge that was lacking.

Definition & Usage of μανθάνω (manthanō)

It means to learn, understand, gain knowledge through study, instruction, or experience.

It can refer to academic learning, discipleship, or acquiring skills.

This is the root word for μαθητής (mathētēs, "disciple" ), which means a learner, student, or follower (hence, "disciple" in the New Testament).


Examples in the New Testament

1. Matthew 11:29 –
"μάθετε ἀπ’ ἐμοῦ" (mathete ap' emou) → "Learn from me"

Here, Jesus invites people to learn from Him, indicating acquiring knowledge and wisdom.



2. Acts 23:27 –
"μαθὼν ὅτι Ῥωμαῖός ἐστιν" (mathōn hoti Rhōmaios estin) → "Having learned that he was a Roman"

This refers to acquiring factual knowledge.



Difference Between μανθάνω (manthanō) & ἔμαθεν (émathen, "learned" in Hebrews 5:

μανθάνω (manthanō) = Learning knowledge or skills through study or teaching.

ἔμαθεν (émathen, from manthanō in aorist tense) = Learning through experience, often by going through something difficult (as in Hebrews 5:8 ).

Does This Mean a Translation Issue?

Not exactly. The translation is correct, but the misunderstanding often comes from reading it with a modern, classroom-style learning perspective. The biblical meaning is about experiencing obedience, not just acquiring facts.

Example: Learning by Experience

A soldier does not "learn bravery" by reading about it but by actually facing battles. Likewise, Jesus, as God, always knew obedience in theory, but as a human, He experienced it through suffering.

Nachmonides:


That's a very interesting question, if we all read the Bible cover to cover before really asking questions, I opine that this type of question would not surface at all.


Alright.
We read scriptures contextually, the writer of Hebrews saying Jesus learned Obedience is not something new, especially since Jesus is referred to as the Last Adam.

Similar to Hebrews 5:8 is Romans 5:19 (Greek);

ὥσπερ γὰρ διὰ τῆς παρακοῆς τοῦ ἑνὸς ἀνθρώπου ἁμαρτωλοὶ κατεστάθησαν οἱ πολλοί, οὕτως καὶ διὰ τῆς ὑπακοῆς τοῦ ἑνὸς δίκαιοι κατασταθήσονται οἱ πολλοί.

Transliteration:
hōsper gàr dià tēs parakoēs toû henòs anthrṓpou hamartōloì katestáthēsan hoi polloí, hoútōs kaì dià tēs hypakoēs toû henòs díkaiōi katastathḗsontai hoi polloí.

"For as by the one man's [b]disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous[/b]".

Adam - Disobeyed
Jesus - Obeyed

It doesn't tell us of an acquisition of knowledge, a learning in the modern sense that we understand it. It simply means one disobeyed what was said or instructed or commanded, the other obeyed what was said or instructed or commanded.




If that's not enough, let's analyze the very Hebrews 5:8 (Greek);
καίπερ ὢν Υἱός, ἔμαθεν ἀφ' ὧν ἔπαθεν τὴν ὑπακοήν

Transliteration:
kaíper ōn Hyiós, émathen aph’ hōn épathen tḕn hypakoḗn

"Though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered."

The phrase "He learned obedience" in Hebrews 5:8 does not imply learning in the traditional sense, as if Jesus gained new intellectual knowledge. Instead, it refers to experiential learning—a deeper, lived-out understanding through real-life experience.

Greek Word for "Learned" – ἔμαθεν (emanthen)

The Greek word "emanthen" (ἔμαθεν) comes from manthanō, which means to learn, to come to know, or to experience. While it can mean acquiring new knowledge, in this context, it refers to experiencing something firsthand rather than simply learning intellectually.





On the other hand, the greek word for the traditional learning, teacher-student, classroom-like learning, modern learning is;
μανθάνω (manthanō - μανθάνω). - The Greek word for "learning" in the sense of acquiring knowledge that was lacking.

Definition & Usage of μανθάνω (manthanō)

It means to learn, understand, gain knowledge through study, instruction, or experience.

It can refer to academic learning, discipleship, or acquiring skills.

This is the root word for μαθητής (mathētēs, "disciple", which means a learner, student, or follower (hence, "disciple" in the New Testament).


Examples in the New Testament

1. Matthew 11:29 –
"μάθετε ἀπ’ ἐμοῦ" (mathete ap' emou) → "Learn from me"

Here, Jesus invites people to learn from Him, indicating acquiring knowledge and wisdom.



2. Acts 23:27 –
"μαθὼν ὅτι Ῥωμαῖός ἐστιν" (mathōn hoti Rhōmaios estin) → "Having learned that he was a Roman"

This refers to acquiring factual knowledge.



Difference Between μανθάνω (manthanō) & ἔμαθεν (émathen, "learned" in Hebrews 5:

μανθάνω (manthanō) = Learning knowledge or skills through study or teaching.

ἔμαθεν (émathen, from manthanō in aorist tense) = Learning through experience, often by going through something difficult (as in Hebrews 5:8 ).

Does This Mean a Translation Issue?

Not exactly. The translation is correct, but the misunderstanding often comes from reading it with a modern, classroom-style learning perspective. The biblical meaning is about experiencing obedience, not just acquiring facts.

Example: Learning by Experience

A soldier does not "learn bravery" by reading about it but by actually facing battles. Likewise, Jesus, as God, always knew obedience in theory, but as a human, He experienced it through suffering.

I didn't mean to put emoticons wherever you may find them here in my comment. NL's text formatting is still a pain in the ass.

ichuka:

No it was good or very good doesn't make it perfect.our perfection is in Christ only.

And Christ is taking us back to the way God first created us before Satan destroyed us. Which clearly means we were perfect before Satan came and spoilt us.

Truthseeker10:

How could Adam had sinned by going against the law according to your submission up there?

Do you not know that sin automatically means breach of Law aka going against the Law?

It's seems the more you talk the more your intelligence fades away.

Dtruthspeaker:


Do you not know that sin automatically means breach of Law aka going against the Law?

It's seems the more you talk the more your intelligence fades away.

You just jumped into a discussion that you do not know the beginning of. Go back and trace our discussion. How could Adam choose to obey God and not sin and still go against the law according to Sirmwill? Answer it since you like jumping into discussions that you know nothing about.

Dtruthspeaker:


Once a Creator says his creation is good and releases it for use, he impliedly says it is perfect according to him.

But perfection does not mean that a product is free from alteration or destruction. Eg see how smugglers have altered our dearly beloved Camry and Volvo in Badagry even their creators will be shocked.

His creation is perfect until sin and its originator entered the world. Sin and its originator are evil and wicked, bad like a rotten fruit which can't be eaten. These evil, wickedness which is anti to God's holiness increased until God spoke His mind in Genesis 6:6. Man was created rational, intelligent and a NATURAL SOCIAL AGENT. He was given FREE WILL JUST LIKE LUCIFER WAS. But Satan mis-used the grace(the disobedience came from his self will unlike man who was presumptuous_an evil agent was present to cause his fall_ just like we do these days). At that time, evil had multiplied. The devils took man's mind as their residence. Spiritual insanity came into play physically.
The same thing applies to a natural man at birth_he is perfect at birth as far as God's righteousness is concerned until the tendency to committing sin manifests.

Dtruthspeaker:


And Christ is taking us back to the way God first created us before Satan destroyed us. Which clearly means we were perfect before Satan came and spoilt us.

Guy,I no understand u oo

Nachmonides:


That's a very interesting question, if we all read the Bible cover to cover before really asking questions, I opine that this type of question would not surface at all.


Alright.
We read scriptures contextually, the writer of Hebrews saying Jesus learned Obedience is not something new, especially since Jesus is referred to as the Last Adam.

Similar to Hebrews 5:8 is Romans 5:19 (Greek);

ὥσπερ γὰρ διὰ τῆς παρακοῆς τοῦ ἑνὸς ἀνθρώπου ἁμαρτωλοὶ κατεστάθησαν οἱ πολλοί, οὕτως καὶ διὰ τῆς ὑπακοῆς τοῦ ἑνὸς δίκαιοι κατασταθήσονται οἱ πολλοί.

Transliteration:
hōsper gàr dià tēs parakoēs toû henòs anthrṓpou hamartōloì katestáthēsan hoi polloí, hoútōs kaì dià tēs hypakoēs toû henòs díkaiōi katastathḗsontai hoi polloí.

"For as by the one man's [b]disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous[/b]".

Adam - Disobeyed
Jesus - Obeyed

It doesn't tell us of an acquisition of knowledge, a learning in the modern sense that we understand it. It simply means one disobeyed what was said or instructed or commanded, the other obeyed what was said or instructed or commanded.




If that's not enough, let's analyze the very Hebrews 5:8 (Greek);
καίπερ ὢν Υἱός, ἔμαθεν ἀφ' ὧν ἔπαθεν τὴν ὑπακοήν

Transliteration:
kaíper ōn Hyiós, émathen aph’ hōn épathen tḕn hypakoḗn

"Though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered."

The phrase "He learned obedience" in Hebrews 5:8 does not imply learning in the traditional sense, as if Jesus gained new intellectual knowledge. Instead, it refers to experiential learning—a deeper, lived-out understanding through real-life experience.

Greek Word for "Learned" – ἔμαθεν (emanthen)

The Greek word "emanthen" (ἔμαθεν) comes from manthanō, which means to learn, to come to know, or to experience. While it can mean acquiring new knowledge, in this context, it refers to experiencing something firsthand rather than simply learning intellectually.





On the other hand, the greek word for the traditional learning, teacher-student, classroom-like learning, modern learning is;
μανθάνω (manthanō - μανθάνω). - The Greek word for "learning" in the sense of acquiring knowledge that was lacking.

Definition & Usage of μανθάνω (manthanō)

It means to learn, understand, gain knowledge through study, instruction, or experience.

It can refer to academic learning, discipleship, or acquiring skills.

This is the root word for μαθητής (mathētēs, "disciple" ), which means a learner, student, or follower (hence, "disciple" in the New Testament).


Examples in the New Testament

1. Matthew 11:29 –
"μάθετε ἀπ’ ἐμοῦ" (mathete ap' emou) → "Learn from me"

Here, Jesus invites people to learn from Him, indicating acquiring knowledge and wisdom.



2. Acts 23:27 –
"μαθὼν ὅτι Ῥωμαῖός ἐστιν" (mathōn hoti Rhōmaios estin) → "Having learned that he was a Roman"

This refers to acquiring factual knowledge.



Difference Between μανθάνω (manthanō) & ἔμαθεν (émathen, "learned" in Hebrews 5:

μανθάνω (manthanō) = Learning knowledge or skills through study or teaching.

ἔμαθεν (émathen, from manthanō in aorist tense) = Learning through experience, often by going through something difficult (as in Hebrews 5:8 ).

Does This Mean a Translation Issue?

Not exactly. The translation is correct, but the misunderstanding often comes from reading it with a modern, classroom-style learning perspective. The biblical meaning is about experiencing obedience, not just acquiring facts.

Example: Learning by Experience

A soldier does not "learn bravery" by reading about it but by actually facing battles. Likewise, Jesus, as God, always knew obedience in theory, but as a human, He experienced it through suffering.

Bro, let's not be more spiritual than the author of the bible.
Oga,God learnt obedience simple.
The creation He started in genesis was completed or perfected on His Cross of Calvary.
In the concept of salvation there's redemption and the creation of obedience.
Please let not be more holy than Holiness Himself.