Eph.2.8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. (NKJV)

Phil.2.12-13 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. (NKJV)

Sir, I read this verses and I have a question how can salvation be a gift and I have to work my salvation out with fear and trembling?

gohf:
Eph.2.8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. (NKJV)

Phil.2.12-13 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. (NKJV)

Sir, I read this verses and I have a question how can salvation be a gift and I have to work my salvation out with fear and trembling?

To answer this question I ask one question, Paul mentions three things, grace, salvation and faith, so which of these three is actually the gift of God (the 'doron' of God)?

If your neighbour "dash" you free chicken, swallow it alive.

gohf:
Eph.2.8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. (NKJV)

Phil.2.12-13 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. (NKJV)

Sir, I read this verses and I have a question how can salvation be a gift and I have to work my salvation out with fear and trembling?

Salvation is a free gift from God, not something we earn. However, it is our responsibility to respond to it by embracing and living it out. This response is what it means to "work out our salvation."

Think of it like receiving a free gym membership—you didn’t pay for it, but to benefit from it, you need to exercise. Your effort doesn’t earn the membership, but it helps you grow stronger. In the same way, while salvation is a gift, our obedience and spiritual growth enable us to fully experience its transforming power.

Thankgod89:


Salvation is a free gift from God, not something we earn. However, it is our responsibility to respond to it by embracing and living it out. This response is what it means to "work out our salvation."

Think of it like receiving a free gym membership—you didn’t pay for it, but to benefit from it, you need to exercise. Your effort doesn’t earn the membership, but it helps you grow stronger. In the same way, while salvation is a gift, our obedience and spiritual growth enable us to fully experience its transforming power.

so are you saying that salvation is a means to an end and not the end or goal itself?

CodeTemplarr:
If your neighbour dash you free chicken, swallow it alive.

is the chicken supposed to be your analogical synonym with salvation?

gohf:
is the chicken supposed to be your analogical synonym with salvation?

yes.

CodeTemplarr:
yes.

so salvation is something you are supposed to cook and eat, or use for your satisfaction?

gohf:
so salvation is something you are supposed to cook and eat, or use for your satisfaction?

no...something to be worked out and upon. Or is salvation live chicken to you?

CodeTemplarr:
no...something to be worked out and upon. Or is salvation live chicken to you?

you didn't explain your analogy

Someone gave another a chicken without telling them what to use it for?

And now you are writing salvation is to be worked out and upon, without explaining what that means.

gohf:
so are you saying that salvation is a means to an end and not the end or goal itself?

Salvation is both a gift and the beginning of a journey rather than just the final goal.

When we receive salvation, we are saved from sin and given eternal life (John 3:16), but that’s not the end of the story. Salvation is also a process of transformation where we grow in Christ, becoming more like Him (Romans 8:29). This is why Philippians 2:12 tells us to “work out” our salvation—not to earn it, but to live it out and grow in it.

The ultimate goal is eternal life with God, but salvation is the doorway into that life. It’s like being given citizenship in a new country—you receive it freely, but now you must learn its culture, laws, and way of life.

So, in a way, salvation is not just the end goal; it is the beginning of a lifelong journey of faith, leading to our final glorification with Christ (Philippians 3:20-21).

Thankgod89:


Salvation is both a gift and the beginning of a journey rather than just the final goal.

When we receive salvation, we are saved from sin and given eternal life (John 3:16), but that’s not the end of the story. Salvation is also a process of transformation where we grow in Christ, becoming more like Him (Romans 8:29). This is why Philippians 2:12 tells us to “work out” our salvation—not to earn it, but to live it out and grow in it.

The ultimate goal is eternal life with God, but salvation is the doorway into that life. It’s like being given citizenship in a new country—you receive it freely, but now you must learn its culture, laws, and way of life.

So, in a way, salvation is not just the end goal; it is the beginning of a lifelong journey of faith, leading to our final glorification with Christ (Philippians 3:20-21).

so you are saying salvation is both a free gift and what you work for? Or you are saying it's just a gift and the beginning of a journey rather than a final goal. If it's the later then your answer to my question is that salvation is not the goal but a means to an end, the end being eternal life.


You defined salvation as being saved from sin and given eternal life but then you say salvation is a means to an end which is eternal life. So you are saying the person didn't receive eternal life when they received salvation.. Right?

Now the verses you quoted

John.3.16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

This verse doesn't differentiate salvation from eternal life like you did. Neither Rom.8.29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Then you explain "work out" in Philippians 2:12 to mean to live in it, to grow in it. The Greek word used there is "katergazesthe" to effect by labor, to achieve. In that very verse and even the next on, Paul writes about obedience which is brought about by God enabling us to obey Him.

According to your explanation salvation means you are already a citizen of God's kingdom, why does Paul then tell them to achieve it by obeying God.


How does one "live out salvation" if it's not to attain it through obedience to God?

Remember the question is if salvation is a free gift why should a person "live it out". Either you are saying a person can be saved and not attain eternal life, or that salvation is free but you have to work for eternal life, so you can be saved and still perish.

gohf:
so you are saying salvation is both a free gift and what you work for? Or you are saying it's just a gift and the beginning of a journey rather than a final goal. If it's the later then your answer to my question is that salvation is not the goal but a means to an end, the end being eternal life.


You defined salvation as being saved from sin and given eternal life but then you say salvation is a means to an end which is eternal life. So you are saying the person didn't receive eternal life when they received salvation.. Right?

Now the verses you quoted

John.3.16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

This verse doesn't differentiate salvation from eternal life like you did. Neither Rom.8.29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Then you explain "work out" in Philippians 2:12 to mean to live in it, to grow in it. The Greek word used there is "katergazesthe" to effect by labor, to achieve. In that very verse and even the next on, Paul writes about obedience which is brought about by God enabling us to obey Him.

According to your explanation salvation means you are already a citizen of God's kingdom, why does Paul then tell them to achieve it by obeying God.


How does one "live out salvation" if it's not to attain it through obedience to God?

Remember the question is if salvation is a free gift why should a person "live it out". Either you are saying a person can be saved and not attain eternal life, or that salvation is free but you have to work for eternal life, so you can be saved and still perish.

Salvation is not merely a means to an end; it includes eternal life but also leads to its full realization in the future.

According to Ephesians 2:8-9, salvation is 100% a free gift—not something we earn. However, receiving salvation marks the start of a lifelong journey, not just a one-time event. The Bible speaks of salvation in different tenses:

Past: "You have been saved" (Ephesians 2: – Justification (declared righteous).

Present: "You are being saved" (1 Corinthians 1:18) – Sanctification (growing in holiness).

Future: "You will be saved" (Romans 5:9-10) – Glorification (final transformation).


Thus, while we don’t work for salvation, we are called to work out our salvation (Philippians 2:12) because God is actively working in us (Philippians 2:13).

You also asked that can Someone Be Saved and Still Perish?

No. If salvation is a gift from God and is received by faith, a truly saved person will not perish (John 10:28). However, someone who merely claims to be saved but does not bear fruit may not truly be saved (Matthew 7:21-23).

Salvation results in a transformed life, but good works are the evidence of salvation, not the requirement for it (Ephesians 2:10).

Thankgod89:


Salvation is not merely a means to an end; it includes eternal life but also leads to its full realization in the future.

According to Ephesians 2:8-9, salvation is 100% a free gift—not something we earn. However, receiving salvation marks the start of a lifelong journey, not just a one-time event. The Bible speaks of salvation in different tenses:

Past: "You have been saved" (Ephesians 2: – Justification (declared righteous).

Present: "You are being saved" (1 Corinthians 1:18) – Sanctification (growing in holiness).

Future: "You will be saved" (Romans 5:9-10) – Glorification (final transformation).


Thus, while we don’t work for salvation, we are called to work out our salvation (Philippians 2:12) because God is actively working in us (Philippians 2:13).

You also asked that can Someone Be Saved and Still Perish?

No. If salvation is a gift from God and is received by faith, a truly saved person will not perish (John 10:28). However, someone who merely claims to be saved but does not bear fruit may not truly be saved (Matthew 7:21-23).

Salvation results in a transformed life, but good works are the evidence of salvation, not the requirement for it (Ephesians 2:10).

before I give a detailed response to this. Are you now saying that Salvation and eternal life are not two different things anymore but that eternal life is in salvation and not the goal of salvation?

Thankgod89:


Salvation is not merely a means to an end; it includes eternal life but also leads to its full realization in the future.

According to Ephesians 2:8-9, salvation is 100% a free gift—not something we earn. However, receiving salvation marks the start of a lifelong journey, not just a one-time event. The Bible speaks of salvation in different tenses:

Past: "You have been saved" (Ephesians 2: – Justification (declared righteous).

Present: "You are being saved" (1 Corinthians 1:18) – Sanctification (growing in holiness).

Future: "You will be saved" (Romans 5:9-10) – Glorification (final transformation).


Thus, while we don’t work for salvation, we are called to work out our salvation (Philippians 2:12) because God is actively working in us (Philippians 2:13).

You also asked that can Someone Be Saved and Still Perish?

No. If salvation is a gift from God and is received by faith, a truly saved person will not perish (John 10:28). However, someone who merely claims to be saved but does not bear fruit may not truly be saved (Matthew 7:21-23).

Salvation results in a transformed life, but good works are the evidence of salvation, not the requirement for it (Ephesians 2:10).

First off in Ephesians 2, Paul is addressing those who have repented from their former way of life, verse 2- 5... in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.

But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. (NIV)

So because of those sins we were dead but then because of God's mercy we are made alive and then by grace we have been saved. Then in verse 8, Paul mentions faith

If we are to say what does Paul mean by works, he usually mentions it in line with circumcision, laws of Moses and the Jews which he does once again in verse 11. But in verse 10 Paul talks about the purpose of our new creation is to do new works which I believe is opposite of the works of sin and the flesh the believers repented from.

Have you tried considering that maybe salvation isn't what Paul is referring to as "it is the free gift of God"

It is not by works, what is not by laws of Moses or circumcision, thats salvation.

If the "it" is salvation, which is not by works but by the gift of God, do you realize then that Paul didn't write that salvation is 100% a gift of God?

Thankgod89:


Salvation is not merely a means to an end; it includes eternal life but also leads to its full realization in the future.

According to Ephesians 2:8-9, salvation is 100% a free gift—not something we earn. However, receiving salvation marks the start of a lifelong journey, not just a one-time event. The Bible speaks of salvation in different tenses:

Past: "You have been saved" (Ephesians 2: – Justification (declared righteous).

Present: "You are being saved" (1 Corinthians 1:18) – Sanctification (growing in holiness).

Future: "You will be saved" (Romans 5:9-10) – Glorification (final transformation).


Thus, while we don’t work for salvation, we are called to work out our salvation (Philippians 2:12) because God is actively working in us (Philippians 2:13).

You also asked that can Someone Be Saved and Still Perish?

No. If salvation is a gift from God and is received by faith, a truly saved person will not perish (John 10:28). However, someone who merely claims to be saved but does not bear fruit may not truly be saved (Matthew 7:21-23).

Salvation results in a transformed life, but good works are the evidence of salvation, not the requirement for it (Ephesians 2:10).

now from 1 Corinthians 1:18 and Romans 5:9-10 that you quoted we can see the agreement with John 3:16 that salvation is the goal.

Now the basis of the question was on you previously suggesting that salvation is the means of attaining eternal life. But one understands that salvation is eternal life, one would know it is impossible to perish when you have been saved. It shows it as an end goal. Like you quoted John.10.28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them away from me,... and also Matt 7:21-23 of those who confess but do not obey God, would not be saved. So it stands to reason that salvation is attainable.

Good works are actually an evidence of faith which results to salvation for those who please God.

gohf:
so are you saying that salvation is a means to an end and not the end or goal itself?

the work of our salvation is already done. All you have to do is believed.

Now, how can we recognise the saved man, ? We can only recognise him by his good work, this work is not the work of his salvation, is an evidence for a save faith.

Is like you want to go for a journey, you simply enter the car, rest and allowed the car take you to your destination. You are resting on the work of this car .

I do not work my soul to save, That my Lord hath done but I will work like any slave for the love of God dear son.

gohf:
before I give a detailed response to this. Are you now saying that Salvation and eternal life are not two different things anymore but that eternal life is in salvation and not the goal of salvation?

Salvation and eternal life are not separate; rather, eternal life is an essential part of salvation, not just its ultimate goal and I don’t believe I ever implied otherwise, Mind you the ultimate goal of salvation is not just receiving eternal life but being fully united with God, transformed into the image of Christ, and dwelling with Him forever.

When a person is saved, they immediately receive eternal life (John 3:16, John 5:24). However, the full experience of eternal life will be realized in the future when we are glorified with Christ (Romans 8:30, Philippians 3:20-21).

Also, I’d like to emphasize this: "Someone who merely claims to be saved but does not bear fruit may not truly be saved."

malvisguy212:
the work of our salvation is already done. All you have to do is believed.

Now, how can we recognise the saved man, ? We can only recognise him by his good work, this work is not the work of his salvation, is an evidence for a save faith.

Is like you want to go for a journey, you simply enter the car, rest and allowed the car take you to your destination. You are resting on the work of this car .

I do not work my soul to save, That my Lord hath done but I will work like any slave for the love of God dear son.

except that you actually have to drive the car to get to your destination.

The work of salvation is the work towards salvation, so when you say the work is already done you mean the person is already saved then there is no more work needed for the person has entered God's rest.

But then even Paul said he had not yet attained it, or that he should miss it.

If you are referring to the cross of Christ, that work is the foundation of our faith but Jesus never said that once he died there was nothing for us to do. He was asked a number of times concerning eternal life and salvation and his response was obedience to God. Jesus said pick up your cross and follow me.

You wrote of evidence of a saved man, well what is a man saved from, if you say from sin then that means he would never commit a sin till he dies if you say saved from death then it means he would never physically die.

Now the evidence you speak of, is for those who believe and have faith, those whose hope is for the salvation of their souls.

1Pet.1.9 for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

gohf:
expect that you actually have to drive the car to get to your destination.

The work of salvation is the work towards salvation, so when you say the work is already done you mean the person is already saved then there is no more work needed for the person has entered God's rest.

But then even Paul said he had not yet attained it, or that he should miss it.

If you are referring to the cross of Christ, that work is the foundation of our faith but Jesus never said that once he died there was nothing for us to do. He was asked a number of times concerning eternal life and salvation and his response was obedience to God. Jesus said pick up your cross and follow me.

You wrote of evidence of a saved man, well what is a man saved from, if you say from sin then that means he would never commit a sin till he dies if you say saved from death then it means he would never physically die.

Now the evidence you speak of, is for those who believe and have faith, those whose hope is for the salvation of their souls.

1Pet.1.9 for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

answer this question. When you are saved. How can you show the evidence of a save faith?
Good works are not what a man DOES in order to be SAVED; Good works are what a SAVED MAN DOES .

Now listen, God’s holiness utterly condemns the best man but God grace freely justify the worst.

gohf:
now from 1 Corinthians 1:18 and Romans 5:9-10 that you quoted we can see the agreement with John 3:16 that salvation is the goal.

Now the basis of the question was on you previously suggesting that salvation is the means of attaining eternal life. But one understands that salvation is eternal life, one would know it is impossible to perish when you have been saved. It shows it as an end goal. Like you quoted John.10.28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them away from me,... and also Matt 7:21-23 of those who confess but do not obey God, would not be saved. So it stands to reason that salvation is attainable.

Good works are actually an evidence of faith which results to salvation for those who please God.

I see your point, and I agree that salvation is attainable and secure in Christ (John 10:28). However, while salvation includes eternal life, the ultimate goal is not just receiving eternal life but being fully restored to perfect fellowship with God (Revelation 21:3-4) and conformed to Christ’s image (Romans 8:29).

Salvation is both a gift received and a journey of transformation. Those who are truly saved will bear fruit, not as a means to earn salvation but as evidence of genuine faith (Ephesians 2:10, James 2:17).

Thankgod89:


Salvation and eternal life are not separate; rather, eternal life is an essential part of salvation, not just its ultimate goal and I don’t believe I ever implied otherwise, Mind you the ultimate goal of salvation is not just receiving eternal life but being fully united with God, transformed into the image of Christ, and dwelling with Him forever.

When a person is saved, they immediately receive eternal life (John 3:16, John 5:24). However, the full experience of eternal life will be realized in the future when we are glorified with Christ (Romans 8:30, Philippians 3:20-21).

Also, I’d like to emphasize this: "Someone who merely claims to be saved but does not bear fruit may not truly be saved."

Are these not your very words?
"The ultimate goal is eternal life with God, but salvation is the doorway into that life."

Now you are saying you didn't imply it, and writing that, "ultimate goal of salvation is not just receiving eternal life but being fully united with God, transformed into the image of Christ, and dwelling with Him forever."

Adding more words doesn't change what you wrote.

Anyway this isn't a simple answer to yes salvation and eternal life are the same, because I believe that's what you mean when you write when a person is saved they receive eternal life. And that salvation and eternal life are not separate so they are the same.

Thankgod89:


I see your point, and I agree that salvation is attainable and secure in Christ (John 10:28). However, while salvation includes eternal life, the ultimate goal is not just receiving eternal life but being fully restored to perfect fellowship with God (Revelation 21:3-4) and conformed to Christ’s image (Romans 8:29).

Salvation is both a gift received and a journey of transformation. Those who are truly saved will bear fruit, not as a means to earn salvation but as evidence of genuine faith (Ephesians 2:10, James 2:17).

James 2:17 you are mixing faith and salvation again. In Ephesians Paul already clarified that faith is the process, through faith and he doesn't refer to salvation as the process because it is the goal that we are saved. It is because the faith required for us to be saved comes from God not from ourselves that makes faith in Jesus whom God sends to us, the gift. Paul wrote this is faith, that we don't think who will send Jesus to us or bring him out from the grave but God has done all that, that we believe what God has done and live by it.

While our relationship with God is being restored through the reconciliation brought by Jesus Christ our way to God. Our full transformation occurs only after we have left his world, as this present body cannot inherit the Kingdom of God and it is not his flesh that is saved but our souls.

malvisguy212:
answer this question. When you are saved. How can you show the evidence of a save faith?
Good works are not what a man DOES in order to be SAVED; Good works are what a SAVED MAN DOES .

Now listen, God’s holiness utterly condemns the best man but God grace freely justify the worst.

first off God's holiness doesn't condemn the best man, seeing as the best man is Jesus neither does it even condemn the worst of us who repent, believe and obey God.

Also God's grace doesn't justify the worst, no, Paul wrote those who are called, God justified but we know from what Jesus said not every one called would answer, so, Jesus said, many are called few are chosen. Chosen, elected by grace.

gohf:
James 2:17 you are mixing faith and salvation again. In Ephesians Paul already clarified that faith is the process, through faith and he doesn't refer to salvation as the process because it is the goal that we are saved. It is because the faith required for us to be saved comes from God not from ourselves that makes faith in Jesus whom God sends to us, the gift. Paul wrote this is faith, that we don't think who will send Jesus to us or bring him out from the grave but God has done all that, that we believe what God has done and live by it.

While our relationship with God is being restored through the reconciliation brought by Jesus Christ our way to God. Our full transformation occurs only after we have left his world, as this present body cannot inherit the Kingdom of God and it is not his flesh that is saved but our souls.

I'm not mixing faith and salvation but emphasizing that faith leads to salvation.

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9)

Faith is God-given, not something we generate on our own. We believe in what God has done through Christ, and that faith leads to salvation.

Meanwhile James does not contradict Paul but highlights that true faith produces works as evidence of salvation:

gohf:
first off God's holiness doesn't condemn the best man, seeing as the best man is Jesus neither does it even condemn the worst of us who repent, believe and obey God.

Also God's grace doesn't justify the worst, no, Paul wrote those who are called, God justified but we know from what Jesus said not every one called would answer, so, Jesus said, many are called few are chosen. Chosen, elected by grace.

are you a Christian?

Thankgod89:


I'm not mixing faith and salvation but emphasizing that faith leads to salvation.

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9)

Faith is God-given, not something we generate on our own. We believe in what God has done through Christ, and that faith leads to salvation.

Meanwhile James does not contradict Paul but highlights that true faith produces works as evidence of salvation:

very good. Bless you. James complement Paul work. Paul teaches that Abraham believe and James complement the teaching by saying Abraham don't just seat down and claim he believed, he show the evidence of his faith by taken a bold step to sacrifice his son Isaac.

Thankgod89:


Salvation and eternal life are not separate; rather, eternal life is an essential part of salvation, not just its ultimate goal and I don’t believe I ever implied otherwise, Mind you the ultimate goal of salvation is not just receiving eternal life but being fully united with God, transformed into the image of Christ, and dwelling with Him forever.

When a person is saved, they immediately receive eternal life (John 3:16, John 5:24). However, the full experience of eternal life will be realized in the future when we are glorified with Christ (Romans 8:30, Philippians 3:20-21).

Also, I’d like to emphasize this: "Someone who merely claims to be saved but does not bear fruit may not truly be saved."

sir is John 3:15 not John 3:16. John 3:16 says everlasting life. And biblical, everlasting life is different from eternal life

Thankgod89:


I'm not mixing faith and salvation but emphasizing that faith leads to salvation.

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9)

Faith is God-given, not something we generate on our own. We believe in what God has done through Christ, and that faith leads to salvation.

Meanwhile James does not contradict Paul but highlights that true faith produces works as evidence of salvation:

how do you mean that faith is God given

malvisguy212:
very good. Bless you. James complement Paul work. Paul teaches that Abraham believe and James complement the teaching by saying Abraham don't just seat down and claim he believed, he show the evidence of his faith by taken a bold step to sacrifice his son Isaac.

And is that salvation. We talking about salvation and talking about Abraham's faith in not sacrificing his son.

delkuf:
sir is John 3:15 not John 3:16. John 3:16 says everlasting life. And biblical, everlasting life is different from eternal life

The terms eternal life and everlasting life mean the same thing in biblical context. However, some distinctions can be noted:

[
Eternal life Focuses more on the quality of life—a life that comes from God, beginning at salvation and continuing forever (John 17:3: "Now this is eternal life: that they know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.".
While Everlasting life – emphasize the duration—life that never ends.

But since the original Greek uses the same phrase for both, the meaning remains the same.

delkuf:
And is that salvation. We talking about salvation and talking about Abraham's faith in not sacrificing his son.

Paul and James use the example of Abraham when teaching about salvation.