coogar:

to be honest, the seasoned english fans don't rate english players. the media don't speak for everyone. there's hardly any article in the english media that does not get shouted at by english fans. majority of the english fans are realistic about the chances of the english team & they are the biggest critics of the 3 lions.



england are the biggest underachievers in world football. with the calibre of players & the state of the art facilities in the country, england should have won at least 3 world cups since 66 and perhaps another 2 trophies in the european championship.

the golden generation - hargreaves, neville, cashley, rio, carragher, brown, terry, campbell, beckham, scholes, gerrard, lampard, rooney, etc won nothing for the country & nearly all of them won champions league for their respective clubs.

If almost all of them won champions league then it meant they are actually gifted individually and technically. They are not over hyped in my opinion. Liverpool was the most feared team in Europe during Bernitez. They played two finals and were winning home and away.

England have only not done well collectively but individually the players can hold their own any where. English clubs were always in the UCL last four between 2005- 2009. So the players deserve their ratings. I see no over hype there.

coogar:

england are the biggest underachievers in world football. with the calibre of players & the state of the art facilities in the country, england should have won at least 3 world cups since 66 and perhaps another 2 trophies in the european championship.

the golden generation - hargreaves, neville, cashley, rio, carragher, brown, terry, campbell, beckham, scholes, gerrard, lampard, rooney, etc won nothing for the country & nearly all of them won champions league for their respective clubs.

If they were that good, they would have won something. Winning the champions league is not the same thing because they all played with pretty gifted foreign players. Gerrard is perhaps the only English player who was above his team mates in 2005. In 99, Manure won with Schmeichel, Yorke, Solskjær, Keane. In 2008, Manure had Tevez, Ronaldo, Evra, Van der sar. Chelsea had Cech, Drogba, Mata, Mikel, Luiz, Kalou.

coogar:

at least close to 100 of lampard's goals for club & country are from the penalty spot. same as gerrard! like fergie said in his book, carrick & scholes are better technically than gerrard & lampard but the media darlings pad up their mediocrity with goals scored from penalties & freekicks.

Scholes or Carrick or Lampard could not have carried a poor Liverpool side for a generation - Gerrard has done that. Ferguson is just being an ar.se as usual. There is no way Carrick is better than Gerrard.

elampiro:
If almost all of them won champions league then it meant they are actually gifted individually and technically. They are not over hyped in my opinion. Liverpool was the most feared team in Europe during Bernitez. They played two finals and were winning home and away.

if almost all of them won champions league & they cannot transfer that form into the national team then they are underachievers. they should be doing better for the 3 lions - english league had the champions league competition in their pocket between 2005 & 2011. what did the players win for england in this period? nothing!!! they even failed to make euro 2008....

England have only not done well collectively but individually the players can hold their own any where. English clubs were always in the UCL last four between 2005- 2009. So the players deserve their ratings. I see no over hype there.

they don't deserve their ratings - in that period of champions league dominance, the foreign players were really the drivers of the success of english clubs. ronaldo for united, drogba for chelsea, henry for arsenal, hamann, alonso, garcia, etc for liverpool.

Katsumoto:
Scholes or Carrick or Lampard could not have carried a poor Liverpool side for a generation - Gerrard has done that. Ferguson is just being an ar.se as usual. There is no way Carrick is better than Gerrard.

gerrard has done that & won what? gerrard has no league title to his name so what exactly has gerrard done for a generation? he's the most overhyped player in england.

the common denominator in united's success between 2006 & 2013 is michael carrick in united's midfield. he's won 5 league titles in 7 seasons playing in the most important position for man utd. if he's the type that craves the limelight, he would be worshipped in this country.

lay down carrick's credentials & compare to gerrard and the scouser would be embarrassed. besides, you never can tell who is capable of carrying a midfield on his back. would you have wagered on aaron ramsey carrying arsenal's midfield on his back in the summer?

Ibime:

Wetin you remember no concern us. We Chelsea fans remember them and the statisticians have counted them. Frank has the highest output of any central midfielder in history!!!

Lampard played in the midfield along Ballack for Chelsea, I guess when Ballack was the German captain.

Between the two who was better? I guess Lampard. Now has anyone ever accused Ballack of being overhyped?

Lampard is accused of being overhyped just because he's English.

coogar:

if almost all of them won champions league & they cannot transfer that form into the national team then they are underachievers. they should be doing better for the 3 lions - english league had the champions league competition in their pocket between 2005 & 2011. what did the players win for england in this period? nothing!!! they even failed to make euro 2008....



they don't deserve their ratings - in that period of champions league dominance, the foreign players were really the drivers of the success of english clubs. ronaldo for united, drogba for chelsea, henry for arsenal, hamann, alonso, garcia, etc for liverpool.

Drogba for Chelsea? What about Lampard and Cole?

Liverpool was had Gerald and Caragher. You did not mention them.

*** one of Brazil best squad ever did not win the world cup in 1982. Does it mean the players were not gifted technically? I am almost sure Ronaldo will never win anything in the national team. Messi may manage to go into retirement with just Copa America cup should Argentina win soon. Now these two are under achievers?

elampiro:

Drogba for Chelsea? What about Lampard and Cole?

Liverpool was had Gerald and Caragher. You did not mention them.

*** one of Brazil best squad ever did not win the world cup in 1982. Does it mean the players were not gifted technically? I am almost sure Ronaldo will never win anything in the national team. Messi may manage to go into retirement with just Copa America cup should Argentina win soon. Now these two are under achievers?

Football is a team sport. Individual achievement is different from team achievement. Ronaldo and Messi are great players but they will not be legends until they win the WC. That's the way it is. The reason Zico is not counted amongst legends is because Brazil didn't win in 82 and 86.

elampiro:
Drogba for Chelsea? What about Lampard and Cole? Liverpool was had Gerald and Caragher. You did not mention them.

when all hopes seem lost in munich, who dug chelsea out from the grave muller placed them in? it was drogba

*** one of Brazil best squad ever did not win the world cup in 1982. Does it mean the players were not gifted technically?

that 82 team were underachievers - they had what it takes to win that world cup but they chose a wrong match to drop form & paolo rossi made them pay. they played italy off the park but individual errors in the defence destroyed brazil.

I am almost sure Ronaldo will never win anything in the national team. Messi may manage to go into retirement with just Copa America cup should Argentina win soon. Now these two are under achievers?

portugal actually punch above their weight. you can only name 4-5 decent players in their team. same as argentina - they have not been producing top players lately. however, on paper, the english team looks promising but when push comes to a shove, they fail at the big stage.

Katsumoto:

Scholes or Carrick or Lampard could not have carried a poor Liverpool side for a generation - Gerrard has done that. Ferguson is just being an ar.se as usual. There is no way Carrick is better than Gerrard.

Carried wetin? Carried them to eighth place in the table as soon as Xabi Alonso left?

Carry ko, carry ni!

Greatest English midfielder of last 15 years is Scholes, then Lampard. The others are not worth mentioning.

And 3 slaps to whoever mentioned Carrick when midfielders are being discussed.

Ibime:

Carried wetin? Carried them to eighth place in the table as soon as Xabi Alonso left?

Carry ko, carry ni!

Greatest English midfielder of last 15 years is Scholes, then Lampard. The others are not worth mentioning.

And 3 slaps to whoever mentioned Carrick when midfielders are being discussed.

carrick is not worth mentioning? if chelsea had carrick in their midfield, they would have won 7 league titles since the roman era.

what gerrard/lampard do is to play rubbish for 90 mins then score a goal or two after their stupidity has made their team concede 5 goals in the other end.

carrick is the quiet worker who no one seems to notice but does his job neatly & effectively. drogba's offside goal & aguero's last minute goal is the reason carrick hasn't won 7 straight league titles.

think about it.......

Ibime:

Carried wetin? Carried them to eighth place in the table as soon as Xabi Alonso left?

Carry ko, carry ni!

Greatest English midfielder of last 15 years is Scholes, then Lampard. The others are not worth mentioning.

And 3 slaps to whoever mentioned Carrick when midfielders are being discussed.

And I was taking you seriously as a football fan. Anyone who rates Fat Frank above Gerrard is a Chelsea fan.

Gerrard has carried Liverpool for years. If you are looking for one of the best Champions league finals performances, Gerrard would be up there. All Lampard has is a good shot and sometimes, it is even deflected. Lampard can't bend, can't run past players. Gerrard does all that. Ibime, please go and sleep.

elampiro:

Lampard played in the midfield along Ballack for Chelsea, I guess when Ballack was the German captain.

Between the two who was better? I guess Lampard. Now has anyone ever accused Ballack of being overhyped?

Lampard is accused of being overhyped just because he's English.

Every Chelsea fan knows the monumental achievements of the nigga.

From bitchslapping teams willy nilly in the noughties, decimating grounds like Nou Camp and Allianz to setting up two goals against Barca last year in UCL semifinal at the age of 34, Lampard is not to be messed with.

He set the standards that others aspire to. Even Fabregas had to copy his runs before he started scoringregularly. A ninja with 27 goals and 20 assists in 2010. And ninjas are talking about Carrick!!!

Carrick! Carrick!!!

coogar:

when all hopes seem lost in munich, who dug chelsea out from the grave muller placed them in? it was drogba



that 82 team were underachievers - they had what it takes to win that world cup but they chose a wrong match to drop form & paolo rossi made them pay. they played italy off the park but individual errors in the defence destroyed brazil.



portugal actually punch above their weights. you can only name 4-5 decent players in their team. same as argentina - they have not been producing top players lately. however, on paper, the english team looks promising but when push comes to a shove, they fail at the big stage.

Argentina has had the best team for some years now.

Tevez, Di Maria, Aguero, Mascherano, Messi, Zableta, Higuain, etc.

They have been having a better team and players than England for many years.

Porugal has no excuse to losing to Greece in the final of eufa 2006.

Every team has its time, England will come good in the future. You can never tell.

Katsumoto:

And I was taking you seriously as a football fan. Anyone who rates Fat Frank above Gerrard is a Chelsea fan.

Gerrard has carried Liverpool for years. If you are looking for one of the best Champions league finals performances, Gerrard would be up there. All Lampard has is a good shot and sometimes, it is even deflected. Lampard can't bend, can't run past players. Gerrard does all that. Ibime, please go and sleep.

lampard is better than gerrard - unless you find roy of the rovers antics appealing, gerrard shouldn't even be playing for england.

he's not positionally disciplined - this is why benitez kept moving him. left wing, right wing, behind the centre forward, etc where his mistakes won't hurt his team.

yes he scores goals & runs like a headless chicken but he lacks a football brain. go on google & read what arrigo sacchi said about gerrard.


“When I was director of football at Real Madrid I had to evaluate the players coming through the youth ranks. We had some who were very good footballers. They had technique, they had athleticism, they had drive, they were hungry.

"But they lacked what I call knowing-how-to-play-football. They lacked decision making. They lacked positioning. They didn't have the subtle sensitivity of football: how a player should move within the collective. And for many, I wasn't sure they were going to learn".

“You see, strength, passion, technique, athleticism, all of these are very important. But they are a means to an end, not an end in itself. They help you reach your goal, which is putting your talent at the service of the team and, by doing this, making both of you and the team greater.

"In situations like that, I just have to say, Gerrard's a great footballer, but perhaps not a great player."

coogar:

lampard is better than gerrard - unless you find roy of the rovers antics appealing, gerrard shouldn't even be playing for england.

he's not positionally disciplined - this is why benitez kept moving him. left wing, right wing, behind the centre forward, etc where his mistakes won't hurt his team.

yes he scores goals & runs like a headless chicken but he lacks a football brain. go on google & read what arrigo sacchi said about gerrard.

Lampard to Gerrard!! Ok, thank God for individual opinions.

Ibime:

Every Chelsea fan knows the monumental achievements of the nigga.

From bitchslapping teams willy nilly in the noughties, decimating grounds like Nou Camp and Allianz to setting up two goals against Barca last year in UCL semifinal at the age of 34, Lampard is not to be messed with.

He set the standards that others aspire to. Even Fabregas had to copy his runs before he started scoringregularly. A ninja with 27 goals and 20 assists in 2010.

My point exactly. If Lampard is an over hyped, them Ballack, Drogba, Torres are overhyped times 100. Lampard outshone them all. Imagine what he did from a midfield position as compared to Drogba. Infact Lampard is under hype.

Katsumoto:



Lampard to Gerrard!! Ok, thank God for individual opinions.

lampard still understands his role - in his peak years, he won for chelsea as a very important piece in the team. gerrard is just the midfielder version of rooney.

gut-busting runs in the game that stay in the memory of the fans but amount to nothing. why try to take on 8 players & lose the ball when carrick's vertical pass achieves it's aim & even leads directly to a goal that wins matches?

Ibime:

Wetin you remember no concern us. We Chelsea fans remember them and the statisticians have counted them. Frank has the highest output of any central midfielder in history!!!

But in the hierarchy of central midfielders Lampard suppose still know him rank. Which is below Xavi,Pirlo,Schweinsteiger etc

Katsumoto:

And I was taking you seriously as a football fan. Anyone who rates Fat Frank above Gerrard is a Chelsea fan.

Gerrard has carried Liverpool for years. If you are looking for one of the best Champions league finals performances, Gerrard would be up there. All Lampard has is a good shot and sometimes, it is even deflected. Lampard can't bend, can't run past players. Gerrard does all that. Ibime, please go and sleep.

Why did Liverpool disappear off the face of the earth when Xabi Alonso left? I thought you said Gerrard was carrying Liverpool.

My friend, you are a kid in football, harping on about one UCL as evidence of Gerrards greatness. Save the Roy of the rovers stories for the starry eyed kids. Lampard has tonnes of big matches in Europe whilst you keep harping about one lucky final. Go ask the people of Barca and Bayern what Lampard did in their grounds to demolish them. Then giving us silly stories about who can run pass players or not. Dat one no concern us with midfielders. Lampard is a slow burner type of player not explosive like Gerrard, yet twice as effective and twice as competent in midfield play which has nothing to do with "running past players".

Since you want to harp on about Roy of the Rovers UCL story about Gerrard but forgetting that Lamps has scored in UCL finals and performed at top level in latter stages, then I just have to remind ninjas that nothing Gerrard has ever produced in UCL can top the performances Lamps gave at Allianz and Camp Nou:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNXszJDJpOQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP_5QhKnt1k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

^^^^

while gerrard did this to his team at different times in his career.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJIi86iywqU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GprcTAFLQCw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF9IHQ8Z16w

watch from 3.00 in the last clip.

As we stand Lampard should be standing on close to 210 goals and 150 assists, a record some of the greatest strikers in history would be proud of, yet some miseducated prat is talking about "he can't run past players and he can't bend".

Why can't those who can run and bend achieve even half of that? Mschew!!!

Lampard that hasn't scored at a tournament since 2004 and has no goal in two World Cups despite goals being his only contribution.

Lampard is shiite.Lampard has played for a better team than Gerrard; that is all.

I didn't say Gerrard was great, I am saying he is better than Lampard by a mile.

Ibime: As we stand Lampard should be standing on close to 210 goals and 150 assists, a record some of the greatest strikers in history would be proud of, yet some miseducated prat is talking about "he can't run past players and he can't bend".

Why can't those who can run and bend achieve even half of that? Mschew!!!

Whats the reason for name calling?

Katsumoto:

Lampard that hasn't scored at a tournament since 2004 and has no goal in two World Cups despite goals being his only contribution.

Lampard is shiite.Lampard has played for a better team than Gerrard; that is all.

I didn't say Gerrard was great, I am saying he is better than Lampard by a mile.

he scored against germany in the last world cup but dayokanu disallowed it.

Katsumoto:


Lampard that hasn't scored at a tournament since 2004 and has no goal in two World Cups despite goals being his only contribution.

Lampard is shiite.Lampard has played for a better team than Gerrard; that is all.

I didn't say Gerrard was great, I am saying he is better than Lampard by a mile.

Lampard has more England goals and assists than Gerrard in less games. Tell us another story.

The dude forgot when Lamps was topping all the charts for passes made and distance covered in the Prem year on year in his younger days but wants to talk about who can run and bend. I thought dude was comparing Ross Barkley to Lampard with all this talk of running and bending.

Lampard who so dominated all the stats for central midfield play that Opta had to crown him the greatest player since the Premier league begun. Thats how dominant the guy was in passes made and distance covered and other indices of midfield play.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/2783628/Lamps-is-star-of-the-decade.html

As things stand, only Ryan Giggs has more assists than Lampard in EPL history and he's been playing football since Noah landed on Mount Arafat!!!

elampiro:

If almost all of them won champions league then it meant they are actually gifted individually and technically. They are not over hyped in my opinion. Liverpool was the most feared team in Europe during Bernitez. They played two finals and were winning home and away.

England have only not done well collectively but individually the players can hold their own any where. English clubs were always in the UCL last four between 2005- 2009. So the players deserve their ratings. I see no over hype there.

How many of the players on these teams were English to start with? Arsenal's foreign legion is well documented! Liverpool save for Gerrard,Carragher was largely foreign,Chelsea too! Man United is probably the only team that can boast of a largely English make up and its less than half of the Starting XI add to the fact that English players were usually not the best on their teams that should tell you they were carried along for the most part

coogar:

he scored against germany in the last world cup but dayokanu disallowed it.

As far as records are concerned, Lampard hasn't scored at a tournament since 2004. He has more or less been a passenger.

I just saw on the EUFA website now. Rooney was named the official man of the match.

Also, goal.com, the guardian UK name him man of the match.

Goal.com did not even rate Kagawa any close to Rooney. It also blasted Kagawa's waste of two clear chances.

***** @starboard, I went into this investigation because of your statement.


**** Honesty, I don't know what some guys here have against Rooney. What do you want him to do again? He has played two UCL and he has given his all. I think I will stop reading you guys comments when I sense it's anti-Rooney.

elampiro: When last did Germany win the world cup? Does it mean they are shyte in the last 20 years? I guess England were able to beat Germany 4-1 in a certain qualifying game. Trying to recall my memory. I think it was an away fixture. If it doesn't click now, it can click for them tomorrow just as Spain was.

Germany cant be said to have been shyte in that time because in the last 20 yrs
they won the Euro cup,
They reached a world cup final,
They reached a Euro cup final
they reached 2 world cup semis
and a Euro cup final

[size=13pt]Tell us what England have achieved in that same time frame[/size]

England beat Germany 5-1 in a qualifier. No one cares about qualifiers its only what happened at the world cup that matters

Just like Brazil almost didnt qualify for the World cup in 2002 yet went in and won it all

elampiro:

Any team that has won a world cup can always point to the trophy or the year they won it. Plus, the champion of 1986 robbed them with a Maradona's hand ball.

When a country can only point to a time over 45yrs ago then they cant be taken seriously.

That means England hasnt won in my lifetime, and in Barack Obamas adult life

Almost everyone on this forum have not been born then.

Thats about the same Time Hungary was playing a world cup final

Maradona scored a hand of God and also scored a masterstroke in that game only losers keep whining about that.

Germany was robbed for England to win their only World cup but after that Germans have won 2 World cup and 3 Euro cups.

Thats how Champions behave

elampiro:

What has England won? They have a world cup trophy. Maradona also dubiously sent them home.

My point remains, before 2008, Spain were the under achievers of European football yet no one called them overhyped despite Raul, Morientes high rating and pay in world football.

Pundits called Spain overrated before 2008 thats why they are called underachievers

After 2008 they redeemed themselves and became one of the best National teams

England world cup win was a fraud, a goal that didnt cross the line was counted. After that they havent even made as much as a final in any major competition

Czech should even be rated higher than England cos they have a Euro cup, Lost a Euro final and Also played a World cup Semi more recently

[size=14pt]How can any sane analyst rate England? A country that failed to qualify for USA 94 and Euro 2008[/size]

On the Gerrard vs Lampard debate.

I would go with Lampard and most coaches would

1. Lampard has more positional discipline while Gerrard can never be trusted to hold his position. He plays like he is playing "Set" or "Monkey post". He is good in running taking shots etc but lacks the discipline to be a top footballer.

Let anyone tell us whats Gerrards best position on the field. He is just a jack of all trade master of none.

Gerrard thrive on those once in a while Highlight moments watch Gerrard carefully and you would see how useless he is

Like Sacchi said he is a good footballer, he has the skills to play football but a Terrible player