Dux01: any person born of a union between a man and a woman has commited sin.

have u heard of immaculate conception. pls make ur findings.

nnatom:

have u heard of immaculate conception. pls make ur findings.

that was what man researched.does God know immaculate conception?

OLAADEGBU:

Even though Jesus did what Mary said but this was not after He had somewhat rebuked her by saying that His mission was not to do temporary ephemeral things but to save His people from their sins. Apart from this place, Mary is never shown in Scripture to demand or request anything from Jesus.

So, from your sola scriptura, you were able to read that Jesus said 'his mission was not to do temporary ephemeral things....?unfortunately,This is your own interpretation of the verse. Another effort to dishonour the blessed virgin Mary.Did the bible record everything that happened historically? Bros,please try to quit all this nonsense of opening threads to slate the CC and try to get some understanding of what the CC teaches and why..

Dux01: that was what man researched.does God know immaculate conception?

very soon u we ask weather God know about DNA since it is man that researched it

OLAADEGBU: "My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Saviour, for He has been mindful of the humble state of His servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed, for the Mighty One has done great things for me — holy is His name" (Luke 1:46-49).

This is the prayer Mary prayed. She said God my Saviour, meaning that she was a sinner saved by God. Do you see why we are not to worship her?

It's worth taking a look at the immaculate conception dogma. Yes she needed a saviour, hers was just done earlier by a singular act of grace from God, she was freed from original sin at conception.This all hacks back to gen 3 :15. As @nnatom implied, Jesus was conceived in Mary's womb and this had to be sinless. Adam and Eve were also created sinless so nothing God cannot do.

nnatom:

very soon u we ask weather God know about DNA since it is man that researched it

these are spiritual matters.there was nothing spectacular about mary's life after Jesus.it was just like any other woman

Dux01: these are spiritual matters.there was nothing spectacular about mary's life after Jesus.it was just like any other woman

you don't knw what u are saying. can u proof it.

Hi,

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btoks:

It's worth taking a look at the immaculate conception dogma. Yes she needed a saviour, hers was just done earlier by a singular act of grace from God, she was freed from original sin at conception.This all hacks back to gen 3 :15. As @nnatom implied, Jesus was conceived in Mary's womb and this had to be sinless. Adam and Eve were also created sinless so nothing God cannot do.

On what authority do you say Mary was freed from original sin at conception?

semmysh:

Hi,

Those of us from naijaland dot com dot ng enjoyed this post.

We will like you to share some of the info at naijaland dot com dot ng too

Thanks

Thanks for the invitation.

OLAADEGBU:

On what authority do you say Mary was freed from original sin at conception?

the same authority that gave us the bible, that defined articles of Christian faith like - The nature of Jesus, Trinity, Easter, 7 Sacraments, Apostles Creed etc.

btoks:

the same authority that gave us the bible, that defined articles of Christian faith like - The nature of Jesus, Trinity, Easter, 7 Sacraments, Apostles Creed etc.

Are you saying that your so called "authority" gave us the OT scriptures?

OLAADEGBU: Question: "What does the Bible say about the virgin Mary?"

Answer: Mary the mother of Jesus was described by God as "highly favoured" (Luke 1:28). The phrase "highly favoured" comes from a single Greek word, which essentially means "much grace." Mary received God’s grace.

Grace is "unmerited favour," meaning something we receive despite the fact that we do not deserve it. Mary needed grace from God just as the rest of us do. Mary herself understood this fact, as she declared in Luke 1:47, “. . . and my spirit rejoices in God my Saviour. . .”

Mary recognized that she needed the Saviour. The Bible never says that Mary was anyone but an ordinary human whom God chose to use in an extraordinary way. Yes, Mary was a righteous woman and favoured (graced) by God (Luke 1:27-28). At the same time, Mary was a sinful human being who needed Jesus Christ as her Saviour, just like everyone else (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 6:23; 1 John 1:8.)

Mary did not have an "immaculate conception." The Bible doesn’t suggest Mary’s birth was anything but a normal human birth. Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus (Luke 1:34-38), but the idea of the perpetual virginity of Mary is unbiblical. Matthew 1:25, speaking of Joseph, declares, "But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave Him the name Jesus."

The word "until" clearly indicates that Joseph and Mary did have sexual union after Jesus was born. Joseph and Mary had several children together after Jesus was born. Jesus had four half-brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). Jesus also had half-sisters, although they are not named or numbered (Matthew 13:55-56). God blessed and graced Mary by giving her several children, which in that culture was the clearest indication of God’s blessing on a woman.

One time when Jesus was speaking, a woman in the crowd proclaimed, "Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed" (Luke 11:27). There was never a better opportunity for Jesus to declare that Mary was indeed worthy of praise and adoration. What was Jesus’ response? "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it" (Luke 11:28). To Jesus, obedience to God’s Word was more important than being the woman who gave birth to the Saviour.

Nowhere in Scripture does Jesus, or anyone else, direct any praise, glory, or adoration towards Mary. Elizabeth, Mary’s relative, praised Mary in Luke 1:42-44, but her praise is based on the blessing of giving birth to the Messiah. It was not based on any inherent glory in Mary.

Mary was present at the cross when Jesus died (John 19:25). Mary was also with the apostles on the day of Pentecost (Acts 1:14). However, Mary is never mentioned again after Acts chapter 1. The apostles did not give Mary a prominent role. Mary’s death is not recorded in the Bible. Nothing is said about Mary ascending to heaven or having an exalted role there. As the earthly mother of Jesus, Mary should be respected, but she is not worthy of our worship or adoration.

The Bible nowhere indicates that Mary can hear our prayers or that she can mediate for us with God. Jesus is our only advocate and mediator in heaven (1 Timothy 2:5). If offered worship, adoration, or prayers, Mary would say the same as the angels: "Worship God!" (see Revelation 19:10; 22:9.) Mary herself sets the example for us, directing her worship, adoration, and praise to God alone: "My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Saviour, for He has been mindful of the humble state of His servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed, for the Mighty One has done great things for me — holy is His name" (Luke 1:46-49).

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/virgin-Mary.html#ixzz3CGQKef6b

prophet of doom,stay clear of drugs

OLAADEGBU:

Are you saying that your so called "authority" gave us the OT scriptures?

Bros, you're better than than this. This has been bashed so many times. If you're so concerned you really should follow the line of the Jews. They rejected the whole of the new testament!

ifeness:

prophet of doom,stay clear of drugs

Thanks for your advise. Now what's your contribution to the OP?

btoks:

Bros, you're better than than this. This has been bashed so many times. If you're so concerned you really should follow the line of the Jews. They rejected the whole of the new testament!

Before we get into the new testaments tell us that your church was responsible for compiling the Hebrew scriptures.

The Hebrew Scriptures are the same as the OT Scriptures in the Bible. Who compiled the Hebrew Scriptures, the Roman Catholics?

OLAADEGBU: The Hebrew Scriptures are the same as the OT Scriptures in the Bible. Who compiled the Hebrew Scriptures, the Roman Catholics?

There are critical differences between the two. For example, the Hebrew Torah doesn't contain a prophecy about a virgin giving birth, and your old testament does.

Weah96:

There are critical differences between the two. For example, the Hebrew Torah doesn't contain a prophecy about a virgin giving birth, and your old testament does.

The Hebrew scriptures is the same with the OT Scriptures, not more and not less. It's better you stay with your evolution myth than getting involved in what you don't know.

OLAADEGBU:

The Hebrew scriptures is the same with the OT Scriptures, not more and not less. It's better you stay with your evolution myth than getting involved in what you don't know.

So Isaiah 7:14 is the same in the Torah as it is your bible? Does the Torah contain any prophecy about virgin giving birth to people?

Weah96:

So Isaiah 7:14 is the same in the Torah as it is your bible? Does the Torah contain any prophecy about virgin giving birth to people?

I told you that as an atheist you should not dabble into things you are not capable of defending. The Hebrew Scriptures consists of the Torah, the former and latter prophets and the writings. The torah is just the first 5 books of Moses.

OLAADEGBU:
The torah is just the first 5 books of Moses.

Not exclusively. The word can also be used to refer to all of Jewish scriptures. I suggest that you abandon this your stalling tactic and answer the question.

You said that there is no difference between the Torah and the old testament. I disagreed. Answer the question on the table.

Weah96:

Not exclusively. The word can also be used to refer to all of Jewish scriptures. I suggest that you abandon this your stalling tactic and answer the question.

You said that there is no difference between the Torah and the old testament. I disagreed. Answer the question on the table.

How many books does the Jewish Scripture have?

She was a virgin.

MightySparrow:

She was a virgin.

Mary was a virgin until she gave birth to Jesus. She did not have any erotic experience and response with Joseph until after the birth of Jesus Christ.

OLAADEGBU:

Mary was a virgin until she gave birth to Jesus. She did not have any erotic experience and response with Joseph until after the birth of Jesus Christ.

Even your protestant pioneers - Martin Luther, John Calvin, and Ulrich Zwingli will disagree with you, so does the church prior to modern interpretations. Just so you know the word "until" was not used in the same sense as it might mean today. It was just trying to let us know what happened before the birth of Christ and not after. Check out this sentence - Emeka was broke until the day he died, doesn't tell us anything about what happened after he died.

btoks:

Even your protestant pioneers - Martin Luther, John Calvin, and Ulrich Zwingli will disagree with you, so does the church prior to modern interpretations. Just so you know the word "until" was not used in the same sense as it might mean today. It was just trying to let us know what happened before the birth of Christ and not after. Check out this sentence - Emeka was broke until the day he died, doesn't tell us anything about what happened after he died.

This is one of the points where your church tradition goes against the Scriptures. Let me refer you to an excerpt from the OP:

Mary did not have an "immaculate conception." The Bible doesn’t suggest Mary’s birth was anything but a normal human birth. Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus (Luke 1:34-38), but the idea of the perpetual virginity of Mary is unbiblical. Matthew 1:25, speaking of Joseph, declares, "But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave Him the name Jesus."

The word "until" clearly indicates that Joseph and Mary did have intimate union after Jesus was born. Joseph and Mary had several children together after Jesus was born. Jesus had four half-brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). Jesus also had half-sisters, although they are not named or numbered (Matthew 13:55-56). God blessed and graced Mary by giving her several children, which in that culture was the clearest indication of God’s blessing on a woman.

OLAADEGBU:

How many books does the Jewish Scripture have?

From one silly question to the next. I specifically asked you about Isaiah 7:14, and all you 've managed to do was demonstrate cowardice.

The old testament and the Torah are not the same. They are key areas where they differ in translations.

catholic believe that Mary never had
anymore children after giving birth to
Jesus and that she remained a
perpetual virgin until she died. Why
are we to believe that Joseph and
Mary never had sexual intercourse?
What husband and wife live and die
together without consummating their
marriage? These are speculative
questions, but is is obvious Mary
could not have remained a virgin if
she had other children as recorded in
the Bible. (Matthew 13:55-56; Mark
6:3).

Some Roman Catholic observers believe
it may not be much longer until Mary is
officially proclaimed "Co-redemptrix
with Christ." In fact, the premier issue of
the Roman Catholic publication Catholic
Heritage displayed a front page with the
title: "Mary, Mother of the Church." In a
Question and Answer column the
question is asked, "At the foot of the
cross, Mary shared in the mystery of the
passion. True or False. Answer: True.
Mary united her sorrows to those of her
Son. The sorrowful and immaculate
heart of Mary bled with her Son for all
of mankind. For this reason, we invoke
her under the title of Co-redemptrix."
During the past forty years, each pope
has done his part to increase Mary's
influence in the Roman Catholic Church
based completely on tradition rather
than upon the Bible. In the August 28,
1975, issue of the official Vatican
newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano, Pope
Paul VI, speaking of the ceremony
celebrated the day before in honor of the
Madonna at the Feast of the Assumption
of Mary, said, "Her venerate image,
known as 'Salus Populi Romani' , was
carried in procession from St. Mary
Major's as part of the Holy Year
ceremonies, so that the overflow crowd
of pilgrims, coming from all parts of the
world, could see it and thus increase
their devotion to her. In this way we
should all be reminded of the meaning
and practice of the cult of Mary,
inseparable from the unique and central
cult of Christ ... Let us pray to her with
humble, trusting and childlike faith."

The present pope, John Paul II [died
April 2, 2005], has dedicated himself
completely to Mary. During his visit to
Vancouver, B.C. in 1985, the special
souvenir edition of B.C. Catholic carried
a full page color photo of the pope under
the caption of, Totus Tuas which, in
Latin, means "all yours." The following
explanation was then given, "When
Karol Wojtyla [John Paul II] was
consecrated bishop of Cracow by Pius XII
in 1958 he took, 'Totus Tuus' (all yours)
as his motto, thus presenting himself to
Mary. In his first Urbi et Orbi message
immediately after being elected pope he
said, 'At this difficult hour, full of fear,
we must turn our thoughts with filial
devotion to the Virgin Mary who always
lives in the midst of Christ and exists as
his mother. We must repeat the words,
Totus Tuus which 20 years ago were
inscribed into our heart and soul.'"
Pope John Paul II has visited many of the
major Shrines to Mary. He attributed his
escape from death at the hands of a
would-be assassin and the overthrow of
communism in Eastern Europe to the
intervention of Mary. Millions of
Catholics are making pilgrimages to the
various Marian shrines, seeking and
often claiming miracles of healing and
answers to their prayers to Mary. New
apparitions of Mary and special
messages from her are being claimed in
various parts of the world. Yet, there is
absolutely no Scriptural foundation for
any of these beliefs or practices. Mary
was indeed a virgin in fulfillment of the
Old Testament prophecy that Christ
would be born of a virgin (Isa. 7:14). She
was a godly woman, but not sinless. As
with all true believers in Christ, when
Mary died, her soul and spirit went to
heaven, but her body awaits the
resurrection. She did not bodily ascend
to heaven as did Jesus Christ. Nothing in
Scripture indicates that prayers were
ever offered to Mary nor that she was
worshipped by anyone. Most of Roman
Catholic teaching concerning Mary is
based entirely on human tradition and
contradicts God's Word.

OLAADEGBU:

This is one of the points where your church tradition goes against the Scriptures. Let me refer you to an excerpt from the OP:

Church tradition does not go against scriptures. You're interpreting the verse without historical context and coming up with ideas only taught since the 17th century at best . there's a general consensus on Mary's perpetual virginity amongst the church fathers and you'll see the teaching in the Catholic, Orthodox, oriental and even Lutheran churches . I'll rather take the early church interpretation than yours 2000 years after the event. Sola Scriptura cannot explain everything about the faith nor can you justify the bible only practice via it. You always need a guide.
The verse you refer to was to emphasise that Jesus' birth was a virginal birth, nothing more.