One thing I have noticed is that Christians,I mean staunch Christians have formed deep emotional attachment with "Yahweh". It's just like When you love someone deeply, no matter What negative thing another person might tell you about your lover,you won't believe it nor want to accept it because of the emotional attachment you have with the person,you would only think the person is jealous.
The same thing applies to Christians,They are emotionally bonded to "Yahweh" so whatever negative thing you say or imply or that you are driving at, would be opposed logically or illogically,because "Yahweh" is So dear to their heart you shouldn't mess with "him/it/her" .

If you want to have a reasonable debate with Christians first make them understand that you do not hate "Yahweh", that you are not against Christianity, that you don't think their belief is silly,you just have to appeal to their emotions first and respect their beliefs.

How do I know?

I was once a staunch Christian too,and I have had arguments with atheists as a Christian, the reason why I never saw any sense in whatever logical explanations They gave was because I thought They were only against God,I thought They were never Christians and that They aren't good people, more frightening I thought They were sent from the devil,I even thought some of them aren't ordinary humans,Yes you heard me right. I thought They were demons in human forms,So automatically whatever They say would never make any sense to me because I would never support Satan and I would always support God,I was fighting for God,and I thought God was smiling in heaven saying "That's my son" ,who knows? He could be smiling......Lol......

Being in their position once, I understand perfectly why a plainly logical statement from an atheist would NEVER convince a staunch Christian. Even If a Christian attacks me for this thread,I totally understand why.

Trust me that is exactly What the British Christians did to make primitive yorubas renounce their gods for "Yahweh" and That's the same way you can make them............you know the rest..........

Some of them are just comfortable with their believe, They will shut their ears to all facts. Even if the "god" they worship came down to tell them you are wrong there won't still believe. Those are closed minded Christians and it is best you avoid them or you would give your self an headache. They won't throw facts at you, they won't even give you a scripture to proof their point. All what they would say is "I am right! and you are wrong!" or "God said it! I believed it! and that settle it!". These are the routes they take in an argument(pic).

Really I don't just know,why its so difficult for christians to know the power of their mind and it is that same power of the mind they entrusted to an unknown existence because of fabricated stories they read in a book called bible,forgetting that the bible was amended in such a way,the catholic and the protestant/pentecostal have their own version and now they gullible because they gotta act according to what was written by man....Christians fear death and wish for eternal life believing there is life after death and only God can guarantee that,funny i must say,earth is the only planet where an unknown exist for real. Lastly,what the Op wrote is very true because socialization and internalization got yall christians believing there is God and hard to change you believe cus you grew with that but tryna be logical for once to envision the truth...Before Henry Townsend brought christianity to nigeria our forefathers had solutions to their problems so just sit back and have a deep thought or should I say secluded thought lol

Most Atheists I have met are just some folks frustrated with live and are just care again. So they just take life as it is. Taking life as it. So for me to accept the inconsistent and half baked theories that once exposed to hard facts will not stand a chance. Some other Atheists just got mingling with deluded nonentities and before you know it, they will be spewing some outrageous clams they have no clue about. In fact I have met people spewing Science fictions as if they have been using the technology themselves.

Many so called Atheists are still very superstitious in life - forgetting that being an Atheist is not believing in any higher being and spirituality.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstein

egift:
Most Atheists I have met are just some folks frustrated with live and are just care again. So they just take life as it is. Taking life as it. So for me to accept the inconsistent and half baked theories that once exposed to hard facts will not stand a chance. Some other Atheists just got mingling with deluded nonentities and before you know it, they will be spewing some outrageous clams they have no clue about. In fact I have met people spewing Science fictions as if they have been using the technology themselves.

Many so called Atheists are still very superstitious in life - forgetting that being an Atheist is not believing in any higher being and spirituality.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstein

Can you give me one of those hard facts? Just one pls

Dapo777:
Can you give me one of those hard facts? Just one pls

Just so we be clear - Are you an Atheist? How did you become one? What do you believe in?

egift:
Most Atheists I have met are just some folks frustrated with live and are just care again. So they just take life as it is. Taking life as it. So for me to accept the inconsistent and half baked theories that once exposed to hard facts will not stand a chance. Some other Atheists just got mingling with deluded nonentities and before you know it, they will be spewing some outrageous clams they have no clue about. In fact I have met people spewing Science fictions as if they have been using the technology themselves.

Many so called Atheists are still very superstitious in life - forgetting that being an Atheist is not believing in any higher being and spirituality.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstein

einstein made no such statement...
you claim atheists spew claims they know nothing about and have done the very same thing [url] http://www.theguardian.com/science/2008/may/12/peopleinscience.religion [/url]

[b] " "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is
blind." So said Albert Einstein , and his famous aphorism has
been the source of endless debate between believers and non-
believers wanting to claim the greatest scientist of the 20th
century as their own.
A little known letter written by him, however, may help to
settle the argument - or at least provoke further controversy
about his views.
Due to be auctioned this week in London after being in a
private collection for more than 50 years, the document
leaves no doubt that the theoretical physicist was no
supporter of religious beliefs, which he regarded as "childish
superstitions".
Einstein penned the letter on January 3 1954 to the
philosopher Eric Gutkind who had sent him a copy of his book
Choose Life: The Biblical Call to Revolt. The letter went on
public sale a year later and has remained in private hands
ever since.
In the letter, he states: "The word god is for me nothing more
than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the
Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends
which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no
matter how subtle can (for me) change this."
Einstein, who was Jewish and who declined an offer to be the
state of Israel's second president, also rejected the idea that
the Jews are God's favoured people." [/b]

Because atheists lack wisdom.

jmoore:
Because atheists lack wisdom.

I suppose the below is the "wisdom" atheist lack...

davien:
einstein made no such statement...
you claim atheists spew claims they know nothing about and have done the very same thing [url] http://www.theguardian.com/science/2008/may/12/peopleinscience.religion [/url]

You my friend are the one deluding yourself. That quote is from Einstein’s essay titled “Science and Religion,”. By Lesiker, Arnold V - St Cloud State University, in 1954.

Whether you agree in his postulation or not, is up for debate and has been so for generations.

All Atheists I have met are very superstitious and parade wild claims they have not experience at all. At least for religion, people can attest for personal experiences of the supernatural in their lives and for centuries they are very extensive documentation on that.

egift:


Just so we be clear - Are you an Atheist? How did you become one? What do you believe in?

I think it is evident from his post his stance towards religion.

egift:


You my friend are the one deluding yourself. That quote is from Einstein’s essay titled “Science and Religion,”. By Lesiker, Arnold V - St Cloud State University, in 1954.

Whether you agree in his postulation or not, is up for debate and has been so for generations.

All Atheists I have met are very superstitious and parade wild claims they have not experience at all. At least for religion, people can attest for personal experiences of the supernatural in their lives and for centuries they are very extensive documentation on that.

Really....so there are documentations that snakes talked and bats are "fowls"?...please mention the "superstitions atheists believed"...

neoapocalypse:

I think it is evident from his post his stance towards religion.

Let him say and defend it. We want to hear his testimony and personal experiences.

In religion, people have individual experiences - be it Hindu, Islam, Christianity, etc - Even the Native Doctor in my village did not believe his Oracle on hear-say - He has personal experiences that proves to him that the Oracle has power.

Dapo777:
One thing I have noticed is that Christians,I mean staunch Christians have formed deep emotional attachment with "Yahweh". It's just like When you love someone deeply, no matter What negative thing another person might tell you about your lover,you won't believe it nor want to accept it because of the emotional attachment you have with the person,you would only think the person is jealous.
The same thing applies to Christians,They are emotionally bonded to "Yahweh" so whatever negative thing you say or imply or that you are driving at, would be opposed logically or illogically,because "Yahweh" is So dear to their heart you shouldn't mess with "him/it/her" .

If you want to have a reasonable debate with Christians first make them understand that you do not hate "Yahweh", that you are not against Christianity, that you don't think their belief is silly,you just have to appeal to their emotions first and respect their beliefs.

How do I know?

I was once a staunch Christian too,and I have had arguments with atheists as a Christian, the reason why I never saw any sense in whatever logical explanations They gave was because I thought They were only against God,I thought They were never Christians and that They aren't good people, more frightening I thought They were sent from the devil,I even thought some of them aren't ordinary humans,Yes you heard me right. I thought They were demons in human forms,So automatically whatever They say would never make any sense to me because I would never support Satan and I would always support God,I was fighting for God,and I thought God was smiling in heaven saying "That's my son" ,who knows? He could be smiling......Lol......

Being in their position once, I understand perfectly why a plainly logical statement from an atheist would NEVER convince a staunch Christian. Even If a Christian attacks me for this thread,I totally understand why.

Trust me that is exactly What the British Christians did to make primitive yorubas renounce their gods for "Yahweh" and That's the same way you can make them............you know the rest..........

what made u an atheist.
How long were u christian.

davien:
I suppose the below is the "wisdom" atheist lack...

The picture you posted demonstrates atheists lack wisdom.

davien:
Really....so there are documentations that snakes talked and bats are "fowls"?...please mention the superstitions "atheists* believed...

First you have refuse taking a stand if or not you are an Atheist and how you came to that deplorable condition.

On your mockery, people who lived through those times where witnesses to these events. Landmarks are there till date to validate these records and for those of us alive today are witnesses to the existence of the supernatural. The sick are healed and medically certified okay. Lives are saved in a manner that defies all physical possibilities.

That you believe or not is you prerogative. But to wrap you mind round the inconsistencies of a vacuum, randomness, simplicity and a live in a void - is an evident of a carefree attitude that have no consideration for facts.

jmoore:


The picture you posted demonstrates atheists lack wisdom.

if;
Slavery
Homophobia
Circular logic
Racism
Chauvinistic tendencies
Infanticide
Genocide etc
Is what you call wisdom then you deserve to be locked away in a mental institution....

davien:
if;
Slavery
Homophobia
Circular logic
Racism
Chauvinistic tendencies
Infanticide
Genocide etc
Is what you call wisdom then you deserve to be locked away in a mental institution....

Like I said before, atheists lack wisdom.

I am not going to argue with you, all you have written is hogwash.

[size=14pt]Atheists can't convince christians because atheists lack wisdom[/size]

davien:
if;
Slavery
Homophobia
Circular logic
Racism
Chauvinistic tendencies
Infanticide
Genocide etc
Is what you call wisdom then you deserve to be locked away in a mental institution....

Can you see who is running in circles now? There is no concrete fact you are putting up in this discussions. Also you act like Mr. Ostrich when confronted with issues to discuss.

When Atheist Discuss With You

egift:


First you have refuse taking a stand if or not you are an Atheist and how you came to that deplorable condition.

First off you never asked....you asked dapo777 and atheism isn't a "deplorable condition" it is a stance held for an unbelief in god....

On your mockery, people who lived through those times where witnesses to these events. Landmarks are there till date to validate these records and for those of us alive today are witnesses to the existence of the supernatural. The sick are healed and medically certified okay. Lives are saved in a manner that defies all physical possibilities.

really...people who lived witnessed the events?....tell me who witnessed "jesus" and recorded about him during his lifetime....no historian has ever talked about "jesus" as real....they talk about the myths about it and refer to it as the "so called christ" ....and you have to be really gullible to take hallmarks as evidence of anything other than what it is....because japan exists doesn't mean dragons are real..... and tell me again any amputee that grew limbs at any "faith healer"

That you believe or not is you prerogative. But to wrap you mind round the inconsistencies of a vacuum, randomness, simplicity and a live in a void - is an evident of a carefree attitude that have no consideration for facts.

really....i keep asking for facts and i'm the one living in a void?....can you explain how two individuals can populate a species without losing vigour and with no genetic effects....and the fact that you believe homosexuals deserve death makes you a deplorable being...

egift:


Can you see who is running in circles now? There is no concrete fact you are putting up in this discussions. Also you act like Mr. Ostrich when confronted with issues to discuss.

Really....so these verses are't evidence of your stup!d deity and its mental deprication...

infanticide;

1 Samuel 15:3 God commands the death of helpless
"suckling" infants..
Psalms 135:8 & 136:10 Here god is praised for
slaughtering little babies.
Psalms 137:9 Here god commands that infants should be
“dashed upon the rocks” .


slavery;

When a man sells his
daughter as a slave, she will
not be freed at the end of six
years as the men are. If she
does not please the man who
bought her, he may allow
her to be bought back
again. But he is not allowed
to sell her to foreigners,
since he is the one who
broke the contract with her.
And if the slave girl's owner
arranges for her to marry
his son, he may no longer
treat her as a slave girl, but
he must treat her as his
daughter. If he himself
marries her and then takes
another wife, he may not
reduce her food or clothing
or fail to sleep with her as
his wife. If he fails in any of
these three ways, she may
leave as a free woman
without making any
payment. (Exodus 21:7-11
NLT)
these are the Bible
family values! A man can
buy as many s3x slaves as
he wants as long as he feeds
them, clothes them, and
screws them!

genocide;
thus saith the LORD of hosts ... go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but
slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and as5. 1 Samuel 15:2-3

@davien: You are an Atheist and very ashamed to admit and share your Testimony of Non-believe.

BTW, tell that woman they are just playing pranks on her. That she is actually seating and they are trying to make her feel she is standing.

FYI, the evident and existence of God in the life of a man is beyond his physical dispositions. It affects his soul, perception, morality, emotions, aspiration, dignity and more.

As I said before you lack self esteem and end up frustrated with life that you have joined the crowd of folks who do not care or believe anything. That my friend is being an Atheist.

egift:


@davien: You are an Atheist and very ashamed to admit and share your Testimony of Non-believe.

@religitard....showing me a picture of a "faith healer" isn't proof of anything....why?
1.I don't know who that woman is....nor whether she truly has any disabilities...
2.An audience is the easiest place to stage anything....why not walk into cancer research facilities and cure everyone there

BTW, tell that woman they are just playing pranks on her. That she is actually seating and they are trying to make her feel she is standing.

i never claimed she's being pranked....it's funny you jumped to that first...
again you have no idea who that woman is nor if she has any disabilities....she seems to stand ok....i'm talking about people without legs growing legs....or is your "god" impotent?....is it?

FYI, the evident and existence of God in the life of a man is beyond his physical dispositions. It affects his soul, perception, morality, emotions, aspiration, dignity and more.

what is a soul?

As I said before you lack self esteem and end up frustrated with life that you have joined the crowd of folks who do not care or believe anything. That my friend is being an Atheist.

lol.....i hardly get tired of earning being in academia so no....not tired of life... try again
Daily church services probably gave you that idea of atheists...

@davien: Are you an Atheist? If yes, share to us your Testimony of Non-Believe.

egift:

@davien: You are an Atheist and very ashamed to admit and share your Testimony of Non-believe.

I've never seen statements as stup!d as this till i came to NL...
Do you also share your testimony in non-belief in allah?

If only the creator of this thread cud see the irony of it.

Sombody who doesnt know God
tries to convince another who does,that he,the theist, is believing wrongly!

How cud u possibly accomplish that.

The christian has an absolute and objective reference from which he
anchors his position: the bible

the Atheists has none.
Their best recourse for d
modern atheist is science and logic.
Science isnt absolute. It is still searchg and theorising and basically operating by trial and error.
Human systems and logic is likewise imperfect.
Yet it is the tool atheists use to lounge against the bible.
The imperfect vs the perfect.
The still-learning vs the concluded-canon.

The atheist base their philosophy on an unfounded assumption.
1) the world is physcal, nothg more nothing less.
Every phenomena is physcal.
This is an article of faith to both atheists and scientists.
Atheists and scientists cannot prove this true. Or the opposite false.
They simply can't.
They simply choose to take a stand a believe tht all phenomena is physcal.
Havg taken tht stand they push to elevate to a truth.

The Bible on the other hand holds unambiguously that all phenomena isnt physcal.
The bible then gives plenty of glimpses and insights into the 4th dimension , which is a superset of this 3d world.

True bible believing christians believe this and see life from the 4th dimension perspective.
How then can an atheist convince
when he is operating from a different perspective than the christian?
By very nature,the fourth dimension isnt a physcal dimension, so cries to "prove it"
by the atheists,3d people, is inapplicable.
How dyu prove somthing immaterial? You can't.
So what dyu do- you BELIEVE IT.
that's y christians CHOOSE to believe.
If d fourth dimension is brought into d equation atheism and its arguments ar easily destroyed.

The whole weight of atheism is simply on this stand of dimensionality.
3d or 4d.
Atheist push this speculation like it is absolute truth but if this stand is accepted, it leads to gaping questions?
Questions easily handled from the 4d perspective.
How did the world come about?
3d answer: it made it itself.
C'mon things don't make themselves.
Yeah,we (atheists) know this but the world made itself!
Why did it make itself?
We dont know. It just did.
But we do know it was A big mistake a cosmic accident.
Y is nt there another race of beings equal to man in intellect on the planet?
Uhm , i dont know.

While atheists ridicule christians and d bible.
One cant help but acknowledge the uncomfortable oddity the 3d argument of how d world began.

Eventually,atheists choose to believe som things without proof yet want to criticise christianity
from an entirely, materialistic 3d perspective.
The odor of hypocrisy fills d room on this.

davien:
First off you never asked....you asked dapo777 and atheism isn't a "deplorable condition" it is a stance held for an unbelief in god....
really...people who lived witnessed the events?....tell me who witnessed "jesus" and recorded about him during his lifetime....no historian has ever talked about "jesus" as real....they talk about the myths about it and refer to it as the "so called christ" ....and you have to be really gullible to take hallmarks as evidence of anything other than what it is....because japan exists doesn't mean dragons are real..... and tell me again any amputee that grew limbs at any "faith healer"
really....i keep asking for facts and i'm the one living in a void?....can you explain how two individuals can populate a species without losing vigour and with no genetic effects....and the fact that you believe homosexuals deserve death makes you a deplorable being...

many historians spoke of Jesus as real. Your chief spokesman, dawkins,doesnt dispute the existence of Jesus.
Josephus wrote about the early church .
He obviously believed in Him.
Historians documented the arian controversy and its resolution by the council at nicea.
Grow up and stop being a petty arguer.
How many historical records of people who lived over 2 millenia ago are widespread or popular. Especially som1 who lived a short life,33years+, never travelled outta his home state.
Lived 30yrs in insignificance.
And wasnt royalty?

This applies to Nigeria,especially Nigerian christians. Very apt. These christians have been sold a dummy & they don't even know it.

asalimpo:
If only the creator of this thread cud see the irony of it.

Sombody who doesnt know God
tries to convince another who does,that he,the theist, is believing wrongly!

How cud u possibly accomplish that.

yup...in your eyes atheists telling you that they don't believe rubbish and that you base your life on rubbish means they are trying to convince you to have "non-belief"

The christian has an absolute and objective reference from which he
anchors his position: the bible

the Atheists has none.
Their best recourse for d
modern atheist is science and logic.
Science isnt absolute. It is still searchg and theorising and basically operating by trial and error.
Human systems and logic is likewise imperfect.
Yet it is the tool atheists use to lounge against the bible.
The imperfect vs the perfect.
The still-learning vs the concluded-canon. [/b]
yup....the christian has an absolute from the bible to;
kill homosexuals
kill people for being "witches"
have slaves
kill disobedient children
cure leprosy with the blood of birds
don't eat ham
permits racist behaviour

[quote] The atheist base their philosophy on an unfounded assumption.
1) the world is physcal, nothg more nothing less.
Every phenomena is physcal.
This is an article of faith to both atheists and scientists.
Atheists and scientists cannot prove this true. Or the opposite false.
They simply can't.
They simply choose to take a stand a believe tht all phenomena is physcal.
Havg taken tht stand they push to elevate to a truth.

lol....absolutes of mythical phenomenon can very well be disproved the same way they are presented....with no evidence....and the physical world is where we all exist and anything said to exist must be demonstrated in it....that is why thoughts are non-physical and thought states demonstrated to be physical

The Bible on the other hand holds unambiguously that all phenomena isnt physcal.
The bible then gives plenty of glimpses and insights into the 4th dimension , which is a superset of this 3d world.

it is also written in the bible about dragons,wizards,enchanters,giants and world floods

True bible believing christians believe this and see life from the 4th dimension perspective.

asalimpo i have told you to go get educated.... 4th dimensional phenomena are black-holes...so you think like a black hole? no wonder the light of logic is warped and encaged...

How then can an atheist convince
when he is operating from a different perspective than the christian?
By very nature,the fourth dimension isnt a physcal dimension, so cries to "prove it"
by the atheists,3d people, is inapplicable.
How dyu prove somthing immaterial? You can't.
So what dyu do- you BELIEVE IT.
that's y christians CHOOSE to believe.
If d fourth dimension is brought into d equation atheism and its arguments ar easily destroyed. [/b] again a black hole is fourth dimensional i believe the word you are looking for is that you have wishful thinking.....since you choose to believe the bible please keep it at that.....don't spread your disease....

The whole weight of atheism is simply on this stand of dimensionality.
3d or 4d.
Atheist push this speculation like it is absolute truth but if this stand is accepted, it leads to gaping questions?
Questions easily handled from the 4d perspective.
How did the world come about?
3d answer: it made it itself.
C'mon things don't make themselves.
Yeah,we (atheists) know this but the world made itself!
Why did it make itself?
We dont know. It just did.
But we do know it was A big mistake a cosmic accident.
Y is nt there another race of beings equal to man in intellect on the planet?
Uhm , i dont know. i guess thinking like a 4th dimensional black hole is why slavery should be endorsed...

While atheists ridicule christians and d bible.
One cant help but acknowledge the uncomfortable oddity the 3d argument of how d world began. because cosmology is mostly about mathematical models and theorems.....your belief is that the universe revolves round the earth....nice 4d thought

[quote]
Eventually,atheists choose to believe som things without proof yet want to criticise christianity
from an entirely, materialistic 3d perspective.
The odor of hypocrisy fills d room on this.

no sorry we don't believe anything that can't be proven as evident.... and please explain why you use phones,the internet and other "materialistic" things if you've transcended into the realm of a black hole....

Atheists can't convince christian because they are all unconvincing copycats. Also, real christian have experienced God, no turning to darkness again.

asalimpo:


many historians spoke of Jesus as real. Your chief spokesman, dawkins,doesnt dispute the existence of Jesus.
Josephus wrote about the early church .
He obviously believed in Him.

sorry josephus spoke of him from a skeptical view....and reported about the stories he heard about the "so called christ"

Historians documented the arian controversy and its resolution by the council at nicea.

what arian controversy elaborate please

Grow up and stop being a petty arguer.

I'm not the one who believes in dragons,witches and wizards,spells,magic and a jewish bearded son/father creator of the universe so i believe you are the one that needs to grow up....

How many historical records of people who lived over 2 millenia ago are widespread or popular. Especially som1 who lived a short life,33years+, never travelled outta his home state.
Lived 30yrs in insignificance.
And wasnt royalty?

popularity or widespread account is a non-factor....neither royalty....accounts should be cross-confirmatory....the texts about the myths of jesus were very contradictory that is why it is non-existent....from the docetics to ebionites...to yahwehists etc