Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? - Religion - Nairaland
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| Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by timmy2409(m): 7:25am On Oct 15, 2014 |
If you were brought up a Christian, or have spent a significant amount of time around the faithful, then you must have heard this phrase a lot. "But God is not a magician!" Typically this is uttered in response to a fellow Christian's request for something seemingly impossible from God. There's also the notion that simply displaying faith without working towards achieving this request yourself is asking too much of God. However is this really the case? I mean let's look through the bible. God: Without requiring any significant effort from any of the humans involved, he created the universe, tormented Egypt with plagues, split the Red Sea, dropped food from the skies, made the sun and moon "stand still", won multiple battles for the Israelites, and brought healing to the people countless times. There are more such "magical' miracles in the bible than I can count, all without significant effort from the human parties involved. Jesus: In the same vein as his father, he turned water to wine, multiplied fish and bread, and replaced a soldier's severed ear without requiring any faith or effort from the recipients of these miracles. His other exploits include the healing of hundreds of sick people in such fashion, and even the regeneration of a man's severed hand. Let's not even talk of the resurrection. Based on the above, the statement "God is not a magician" would seem to imply that Christians do not really believe in this omnipotent God, who can do ALL things. If you do not agree that this is true, may I ask then, on what grounds do Christians make this statement? Has the power of God lost its potency in today's world? Is it the case that God used to be a magician, but not anymore? Why or why not? |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by timmy2409(m): 7:27am On Oct 15, 2014 |
Also consider this set of expressions: Faith + Works = Results Works - Faith = Results Faith - Works = FAIL Why do you think this is so? 3 Likes |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by Expressions(m): 9:51am On Oct 15, 2014 |
timmy2409: You called  But why use the word magic? Why associate His Name with magic in the first place?? Are you a Christian? A seeker? Are you just being curious? Is this sacarcsm? Or rhetorical? Do you believe in miracles? Do you know the difference between miracles and magic? Do you know that miracles cone from above and magic from below? Do you know miracles must be in complete accord with God's Laws? Do you know that fish and bread cannot be multiplied? And the moon and sun cannot be stilled for the sake of Man? Do you know that truly a man can be raised from death only within a short period of his passing on? Nb*this miracle can't be performed by a fellow man though. This topic is way bigger than mere discussions. |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by malvisguy212: 10:12am On Oct 15, 2014 |
timmy2409:Our God is not a magician.he is a miracle working God,magic dos not need faith,and when you dont need faith,you dont need God to believe in. But you need faith to work miracle,faith in who? Faith in God. @expressions. God bless you. |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by Expressions(m): 11:42am On Oct 15, 2014 |
malvisguy212: And you too @malvisguy212 |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by timmy2409(m): 6:06am On Oct 16, 2014 |
Expressions: Magic: an extraordinary power or influence seemingly from a supernatural source. You don’t think God's biblical exploits fit this description? Seriously what greater feat of magic can there be than the creation of a universe itself from seemingly nothing? Or calling yourself to existence, again from nothing?  If you have a different definition of magic, I'd like to hear it. Are you a Christian? A seeker? Are you just being curious? Is this sacarcsm? Or rhetorical? I'll go with curious. Is it not a legitimate question? Do you believe in miracles? Do you know the difference between miracles and magic? It’ll be very helpful if you can go through those examples I listed in the OP and let me know which ones qualify as magic/miracles, and how they meet this criteria. Is something a miracle because it is performed by God, or is God capable of performing only miracles? Do you know that fish and bread cannot be multiplied? And the moon and sun cannot be stilled for the sake of Man? (Matt 15:32; Mark 8:1) Jesus multiplies 7 loaves and few fish. (Joshua 10:12-14) God keeps the sun and moon motionless while Joshua and his men fought. Maybe you should read more of your bible! Do you know that truly a man can be raised from death only within a short period of his passing on? Nb*this miracle can't be performed by a fellow man though. What is a short period? 4 days? Because that’s how long Lazarus was dead for before his alleged resurrection by Jesus. If that does not shake up your short period hypothesis enough, Ezekiel 37 details dry bones “rising from the dead”! Whatever the heck that means. For reference, it takes over a year for a buried human body to decay until it‘s all bones and teeth. Once again, read the damn book! This topic is way bigger than mere discussions. What’s so big about the topic that we can’t discuss? You can just say you don’t have the answers and bow out if you want. Anyhow having said all the above, I need to ask again. Why do Christians use the phrase “God is not a magician”? I assume you’re a Christian yourself. Have you ever used this phrase? What was the context? Does it not seem that Christians doubt the actual influence that God’s infinite power of miracle/magic possesses in reality? Basically, anything that seems out of the realm of possibility in human minds and according to natural laws is also impossible for God. What do you think of this? |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by timmy2409(m): 6:30am On Oct 16, 2014 |
malvisguy212: Once again, magic is simply the exertion of influence on events in the natural world, using seemingly supernatural powers. The bible contains numerous accounts of such actions from God, Jesus and a horde of prophets. I think I already established with some of the bible instances I listed in the OP that not all "miracles" require faith or works from the human parties involved. When God produced water from rocks for the Israelites in Numbers 20, neither Aaron nor Moses believed him, and they were subsequently punished for it. My question remains the the same. Why do you as a Christian use the phrase "God is not a magician"? Is it because your common sense and experience tells you that God's supposed power (as written about in the bible) does not translate to the real world? |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by Oduduwaboy(m): 8:16am On Oct 16, 2014 |
Christians use that expression when its obvious that their imaginary god has failed in a particular situation! 1 Like |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by Oduduwaboy(m): 8:20am On Oct 16, 2014 |
timmy2409:Sir, do not hesitate , say it now " the only thing needed to produce results is works"! Your basic mathematical expression has clearly shown that faith is just a con-game! |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by malvisguy212: 8:45am On Oct 16, 2014 |
timmy2409:you ask a qustion,"why do christians use the phrase,God is not a magicians?" and i say magic dos not need faith to believe in it,but you need faith in God to work miracle,please note this:i do not say God dont know magic,he never encourage us to do it.in the case of the children of isreal,God promies to protect them but they always disobey God so because of there unbelief instead of them to travell for forty days God make it forty years,but God provide for them there need. You are wrong,moses and aaron believe God when He[God] ask them to struck the rock. Number20:7-11.Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 8 “Take the rod; you and your brother Aaron gather the congregation together. Speak to the rock before their eyes, and it will yield its water; thus you shall bring water for them out of the rock, and give drink to the congregation and their animals.” 9 So Moses took the rod from before the Lord as He commanded him. 10 And Moses and Aaron gathered the assembly together before the rock; and he said to them, “Hear now, you rebels! Must we bring water for you out of this rock?” 11 Then Moses lifted his hand and struck the rock twice with his rod; and water came out abundantly, and the congregation and their animals drank. |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by timmy2409(m): 9:10am On Oct 16, 2014 |
LOL why did you stop there? The next verse: 12. And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them. Moving on, where does it say in the bible that God knows magic but doesn't want humans to use it? And where does the supernatural power for magic come from? |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by malvisguy212: 9:44am On Oct 16, 2014 |
timmy2409:verse 12 was talking about diff thing,but it related to the topic,God told them to speak to the rock,but because of the complaim of the people,moses struck the rock,this make God to be angry with them.they believe in God,moses obey God when he told him to parted the red sea,this shuld'nt have been problem nah. Numbers 20:12 And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron Out of the cloud, where his glory appeared, and still continued: because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel; that Moses and Aaron committed an evil which was displeasing to the Lord is certain, but what that was is variously represented. Some say their sin was, that the order was to speak to the rock, whereas it was smitten, and not spoken to; but why then was Moses bid to take the rod with him, if it was not to smite with it, as he had done before at Horeb? and besides, this would only have been the sin of Moses, and not of Aaron; others think, that what provoked the Lord was, that the Israelites were called "rebels"; but this is a name the Lord himself gave them, ( Numbers 17:10 ) , and was what they justly deserved; and what after this Moses says of them, which, had this been the case, he would have been careful to have abstained from, ( Deuteronomy 9:24 ) . Others are of opinion, that what was displeasing to the Lord was, that the bringing the water out of the rock was ascribed to themselves, and not to him; "must we fetch you water" Others suppose the sin was in smiting the rock twice, and in anger; but this could only be the fault of Moses at most. Dr. Lightfoot F2 thinks the particular fault was this, that Moses expressed his displeasure and resentment to the Israelites, that on their murmuring a new rock was opening, which portended a new and long stay in the wilderness, as the opening of the first rock at Horeb did when he and Aaron were in expectation of being soon out of the wilderness, and now they feared they were beginning anew their abode in it; but it is certain from the text that unbelief was their sin; they were diffident about the will of God to bring water out of the rock for such a rebellious people, and they did not put them in mind of the miracles God had wrought in former time, to encourage their faith; and so the Lord was not sanctified by them before the people, as he ought to have been: |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by Expressions(m): 1:25pm On Oct 16, 2014 |
timmy2409: [b]  All this because you have a brain, a dictionary and a Bible..Curiosity? More like animosity. Let me tell you something k: Firstly I'm not into religion, neither a religionist nor a 'biblician' but I can say I'm a Christian in the sense that I have come to recognise the Christ for who He Is and I wish to adhere to His Teachings! Just like I'm a Muslim in the sense that I agree with the Prophet who declared Islam as submission to the Will of God. Mind you I didn't attain this recognition by reading the Bible ALONE! The Bible was a stepping stone. How can you sit there squabbling about a compilation called Bible? Yes, you should know by now that the Bible is but a compendium! It's not a Book, not one written by one man say for instance Jesus Christ... You think I haven't read the Bible, you think I didn't know what I meant when I asserted that material substance cannot arbitrarily be multiplied. Let me hint you- Even though the Gospels go under the names of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, they were, in fact, written anonymously. Not even the Bible claims that Mark was an eye witness to Jesus’ ministry. Modern, non-Christian biblical scholars believe that the gospel of Mark was written in Syria by an unknown Christian no earlier than AD 70, using various sources including a passion narrative (probably written) collections of miracles stories (oral or written), apocalyptic traditions (probably written), and disputations and didactic sayings (some possibly written). These stories were in circulation year after year, told in different languages and in different countries from that of Jesus. That’s it. The source for the gospel of Mark is other peoples’ stories and writings. In other words, all of Mark’s sources were at best, second hand, more likely fifth or sixth hand. What happens to stories that circulate orally for years? Obviously, they come to be changed in the retelling. Comparing Matthew 15:4 with Mark 7:10, Mark represents a more Gentile attitude in quoting the Old Testament as "Moses said" rather than "God said." Matthew, a Jew, would never have attributed the 10 commandments to Moses. It was God who said them, as all Jews will tell you. Naturally, there are many places in the first five books of the Bible which have 'And God said', but which are referred to by Jews as the Books of Moses... This is just the New Testament (synoptic* gospels) not to mention mixing it with the Old Testament; plus confusing parables or anecdotes with real happenings.... What am I saying Op, don't feel great because you think you can question the existence of God with mere brain, dictionary and Bible. Go beyond the limits in your seeking and appreciate Life. All the best as you curiously fill the burning desire to recognise your Maker[/b] 1 Like |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by Expressions(m): 12:40pm On Oct 17, 2014 |
timmy2409: [b]Before I drop my mathematical expression, let me reiterate that I ain't into religion. Just like air, the concept of faith actually exists except that spiritual highway men under the guise of religious leaders (most of them), have distorted this concept for their own exploits. When you talk of faith you need only think of for instance air. Religious men turned faith to a mere crippling BELIEF system. They say just believe! That ain't Faith! Faith goes beyond mere believing. Living faith is more like a firm, complete confidence- conviction in the truth of... 'something' and of course when you have strong conviction, trust and confidence in the truth about something, it becomes part and parcel of your entire being, manifesting in your thoughts words and of course deeds; you would be propelled into taking necessary actions which eventually yields fruit or results. The farmer for instance has faith. The scientists, someone like Einstein, whom people thought was crazy at first... but he wasn't perturbed by the 'faithless' and kept working... Having hinted you I'll drop my mathematical expression which funny enough I derived from the Bible o, I wonder how church goers are still confused and deceived: FAITH= Work + Result  I'm not a good mathematician o.James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.[/b] 1 Like 2 Shares |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by pesty100(m): 3:07pm On Oct 17, 2014 |
Expressions: Faith and air are two different things with no similarities Expressions: Yah Expressions: Its funny how people believe without proof Expressions: Einstein had a dream which he held on to and not faith. They are two different things Expressions: By the equation above we can say -Work=Result-faith Result=-faith+work Which is also Result=work-faith All in all faith is just a minus in the equation. |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by ayoku777(m): 3:38pm On Oct 17, 2014 |
As christians the word of God is our authority. We just don't form opinion or doctrine out of thin air. The written scriptures is the foundation upon which we form doctrine, and the cornerstone upon which we build doctrine. In the scriptures; miracle and magic are both used to refer to supernatural acts. But while miracle can be used to refer to supernatural acts performed by either God or the devil; magic on the other hand is never used to refer to acts done by God, only those done by familiar spirits. In scriptural sense, you can say, Magic are miracles performed with the power of the devil or familiar spirits. The most common classifications in scripture are miracles or magic, signs or sorcery, wonders or witchcraft. Both classifications are supernatural acts, but the latter refer only to those done with the power of devils and familiar spirit. Don't forget the devil is also a spirit and a supernatural being. So its right to say (by scriptural standards) that both God and Devil can work miracles but God can't be referred to as a magician, acts done by Him are never classified as magic in scripture. |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by Expressions(m): 4:59pm On Oct 17, 2014 |
pesty100: Awwwh. . You don't just like the mere word faith. Just as a religious Christian would reject the Word Allah. Whereas Allah is but the Arabic way of saying God. Dream? Hope? Idea? Etc........................... I say neck you say throat another asserts oesophagus. Must we argue or disagree? So reasoning is impossible because of semantics/nomenclatures...? The glass is half full. NO IT'S HALF EMPTY!!!! THERE'S A DIFF! Anyway let me put it this way: Work on it's own doesn't necessarily guarantee result; some tried and Failed like 99 times or so that was enough to give up. There's something that propels them to try and try again and again until eventually results are achieved. Let me not say it is faith but a Dream! I hope you ain't a Religious atheist or a Religious scientist or a Religious Pegan or a Religious something. Whatever it is extricate yourself from religion and be free to examine anything without prejudice. |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by Expressions(m): 5:29pm On Oct 17, 2014 |
ayoku777: Hello! Brother you're in order. |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by Expressions(m): 5:34pm On Oct 17, 2014 |
ayoku777: The@bolded though Let me quickly state here for those that love to misconstrue and argue that there's is but ONE POWER! That Power is GOD! ONE POWER ONE GOD!! Stepping it down: There's but ONE SOURCE Of power- GOD! The devil has no power of it's own per se. Worthy of note.  |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by ayoku777(m): 6:15pm On Oct 17, 2014 |
Expressions: You're right in a sense, because God created the Devil, so the Devil in a sense owes his power and "supernatural-ness" to God. Even so, as it stands, that power is still the power of the Devil and you can't credit whatever the Devil does with it as acts of God. That is why Jesus equally called it "the power of the enemy" Luke 10v19 -Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all THE POWER OF THE ENEMY: and nothjing shall any means hurt you. And what the Devil does with his power are credited to him and regarded as done by him. 1Samuel 28v8 -And Saul disguised himself.... and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me BY THE FAMILIAR SPIRIT, and bring me up, whom I shall name unto thee. Acts 10v38 -How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were OPPRESSED OF THE DEVIL; for God was with him Acts 8v9 -But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city USED SORCERY AND BEWITCHED THE PEOPLE of samaria. All these are not "ACTS OF GOD" or done by "God's power" per se. They were done by "THE POWER OF THE ENEMY" But I get what you mean |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by Expressions(m): 10:33pm On Oct 17, 2014 |
ayoku777: That is it. So that people don't think there are two Powers. And of course they are no Acts of God. The Creative Power is just there for all of its creations, neutral. How the Power is used then brings about the concept of good or evil, miracle or magic. So the power of the devil simply means the Power employed for evil/wrong purposes. Of course the one who uses the Power for evil bears the sole responsibility... |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by ayoku777(m): 1:59am On Oct 18, 2014 |
Expressions: I get the drift, but that generalized mentality can lead to spiritual bondage - the mentality that power is just there, what you use it for is what makes it evil. That will create the impression that there is nothing wrong with witchcraft or sorcery or divination, as long as you only use it for 'good works' like healing the sick and making someone rich or giving someone a job. Or that witchcraft is only bad if you kill people with, or sorcery is only evil if you cause barreness with it -otherwise it is good or can be good. That is ABSOLUTELY not true. Good and evil is not just determined or defined by the act, but also by the spirit behind the act. Any supernatural act not performed by the Holy Spirit, in the name of Jesus and for the glory of the Father is NOT GOOD -no matter the 'good' done with it. It is done by devil or by familiar spirits, or by a spirit other than the Holy Spirit, so its evil. If you want to know supernatural acts done or performed by the Holy Spirit: 1: It will be done in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Not any other name, whether Beelzebub or Ogun or Krishna. 2: It will glorify Jesus and draw attention to Him, not to any other spirit or person -not even the person performing the act. 3: The fruit of the act will also lead men to Christ and to Christ-likeness and His kingdom. This is how to know acts done by God and in the power of God, and not the power of the enemy. So if someone heals your cancer in the name of Beelzebub, or gives you a job in the name of Krishna, or any other name that is not the name of Jesus, that healing or prosperity is not good. It is evil and you're in bondage. So Magic, sorcery, witchcraft, divination, soothsaying is bad and can never be good; not just on the basis of whether you did evil with it, but because it is done by any spirit other than the Holy Spirit. So creative power is not just hanging there, neutral to all its creations and what you do with it is what makes you good or evil. NO! Emphatically NO! Jesus is the ONLY WAY to the Father, the one true God. So any supernatural act not done in His name (Jesus) is not the power of God, -it is the power of the enemy. And such leads to bondage 1 Like |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by Expressions(m): 12:38pm On Oct 18, 2014 |
 wow you just opened my eyes to varieties of concepts, phenomena and perceptions.... which is ok because as it is now, many of us are entangled in the captivity of sin which includes wrong concepts. People were disappointed then when Christ told them(us)that He came with a Good News- that their(our) Captivity was over. Wondering, they (we)asked what captivity? Hoping He would say I AM HERE TO FIGHT YOUR BATTLES FOR YOU AND EMANCIPATE YOU FROM THE CAPTIVITY OPRESSION OF THE ROMANS. ..&THE DEVIL I can imagine how disappointed they(we) were when they(we) heard the fundamental: CAPTIVITY IN SIN. He came as Truth Personified, Life Itself to show us the way, not walk the way for us. In other words we are solely responsible. ayoku777: That is ABSOLUTELY not true. Good and evil is not just determined or defined by the act, but also by the spirit behind the act. I only stated the fundamental of which the spirit you mentioned isn't exempted. Key thing is the spirit didn't and cannot generate power of it's own. Any supernatural act not performed by the Holy Spirit, in the name of Jesus and for the glory of the Father is NOT GOOD -no matter the 'good' done with it. It is done by devil or by familiar spirits, or by a spirit other than the Holy Spirit, so its evil. Quickly let me add that the Holy Spirit Is the Arm of God that pours out this Power into Creation for its sustenance and development such that should God withdraw the Holy Spirit, every creature, including spirits would cease to exist. If you want to know supernatural acts done or performed by the Holy Spirit: Let me buttress a bit on the use of the Power: Like you now taking your time to think out noble things to type here for the benefit of many other seeking souls is an example of employing the power to good use. When you form noble words that heal, inspire...that's another basic but equally important use of the Power that streams through you on per splits of seconds billing About things being done in the name of Jesus I get. But you know as always religion reduced its significance. When Christ said Ask in my Name... It could only mean that whatever you do (even by way of asking) do or ask in accordance with what I stand for-the Truth in line with the Will of my Father. Otherwise when for instance He taught us how to pray, He would have begun with: 'in the name of Jesus'. Don't get me wrong though I'm just saying because you find even armed robbers, assassins etc pray in the name of Jesus asking for their venture to be successful. You can imagine that low mentality. In that light you may throw more light on false prophets pastors...you should know that the so called evil priests due to low patronage now operate as pastors, healing in the name of Jesus and 'leading' people to Christ. Also as a follow up you may shed light on this: Luke xi. 15-18). "When the Pharisees heard (of the cures performed by Jesus), they said: "This man doth not cast out demons but by Beelzebul, the prince of the demons"; whereupon Jesus answered: "If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand? And if I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? But...." There are more of your points that I could have touched upon but I wouldn't want to derail much. 1 Like |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by iamjane(f): 3:36pm On Oct 20, 2014 |
Matthew: 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Vs23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. ayoku777: For the benefit of the gullible: To lure or deceive another, a BAIT is used (ie something that appeals to you not something that can be easily discerned and rejected out rightly! MatthewVs24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by iamjane(f): 4:28pm On Oct 20, 2014 |
Expressions:Mat: 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. I couldn't agree more The question for him is those imposters performing 'miracles' in the name of Jesus, what power and to what end. Miracle or magic? 1 Like |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by ayoku777(m): 4:57pm On Oct 20, 2014 |
iamjane: I gave three points, why did you quote only one. I said the act must draw attention to Christ and lead mean to Christ-likeness. Why did you omit those two points? |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by ayoku777(m): 6:01pm On Oct 20, 2014 |
iamjane: If you followed the discussion, you will see that what i was trying to correct is the impression that there is no difference between magic and miracle. That since all power belongs to God, both magic and miracle are then the power of God. I was trying to show that that impression is wrong emphatically. Because it implies that its ok for people to visit or patronize magicians, or sorcerers and witches, as long as what you visit them for is not evil or to hurt another. That magicians, sorcerers etc are also using the power of God. That is wrong. While it is true that God gave the Devil the power he has now, that doesn't mean going to the devil or his familiar spirits for help is still using the power of God. Jesus classified such as "the power of the enemy". Any supernatural power not channeled through the Holy Spirit in the name of Jesus is not the power of God, it is the power of the enemy, and it leads to greater bondage. So its never safe to patronize magicians, sorcerers, or diviners and soothsayers. Now about false prophets who minister in the name of Jesus with the power of the enemy like the sons of scevas. I gave three points on how to know miracles done by the holy spirit. 1: it will be done in the name of Jesus 2: it will glorify Christ and draw attention to Him, not to any other person, not even the person performing the miracle. 3: the fruit of the act will lead men to Christ and to Christ-likeness and His kingdom Then if the false prophet seem to meet all this criteria (which would be very unusual and rare); in that case the "gift of discernemt of spirits" (one of the nine charismatic gifts of the Spirit) will be the solution. |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by iamjane(f): 10:27am On Oct 21, 2014 |
ayoku777: it's like you already doubt the all embracing authority of the first point 'in my Name' Your other points, your own points...remind me of one US preacher amongst many: Harold Camping who convinced thousands of followers around the world that Rapture was coming May 21, 201. Many gave away all of their world possessions or donated them to his ministry in anticipation of the End Times. Camping died Sunday at his California home after a fall (stroke) 2 Likes |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by iamjane(f): 11:01am On Oct 21, 2014 |
ayoku777: So it's now you remember your fourth point (gift of discernment), after one must have been led astray by your first three points  Oh now you know there are more to what you think you know, you only see the vastness of this Creation from the one sided religious view. Who said anything about patronising evil here?! Without knowing it you praise evil or d.evil by elevating it. You contradict yourself. Without Power can there be magic?! Magic or any other wrong/dark(dimmed)/evil use of this Power, is inferior and as such short lived with no lasting value..... it's like going for golden-tinsel thinking it's gold. That's why it's called dark power ie, dimmed power; the dimming of the potent pure radiant Power from God. It's like polluting pure water. Who says foul water cannot be used to cook soup? Is soup a bad thing? Do I need to advise anyone not to eat soup prepared with foul water? What do you know of the concept of good? If I as a computer guru create a VIRUS and then come around to u with a solution, an ANTI VIRUS does that qualify my act as good? Ok, I won't run to a magician, let me go to a prophet instead and then alas!it's a false prophet. ..What's the difference. You talk as if the spirit of discernment is sold in the market. Probably I should come to you for that. I do not claim to know it so I can't say things like ABSOLUTELY! People need only the Truth inherent in the pure unadulterated Teachings of Jesus and adhere to It to be free. There re many things Christ would have taught us but man was not ripe for it at that time. He then promised the Spirit of Truth. I am open to knowledge and truth. .. So please don't try to confine us in your box. 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by ayoku777(m): 12:19pm On Oct 21, 2014 |
That's true, knowledge is progressive and intimacy with the Holy Spirit is the only way to guide and guard against error. |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by Expressions(m): 3:37pm On Oct 21, 2014 |
iamjane: |
| Re: Why Do Christians Say God Is Not A Magician? by Expressions(m): 3:40pm On Oct 21, 2014 |
Wow iamjane: |
If you want to know supernatural acts done or performed by the Holy Spirit:Is God A God Of Only The Jews / How Does A "Soul" Make Sense? / God Uses Sign Fireman To Heal A Girl Born Lame!
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