OLAADEGBU:


Where in the Bible is it stated that Mary was born a saint? and if you insist that Mary was born without sin what about Mary's mother and her grand mother?

Please let noone quote me with the question "Where is it in the Bible?". I have stated in earlier posts and given reasons why everything cannot be in the Bible, If you happen to question my logic behind that conclusion then I can entertain questions regarding my reasons behind the said conclusion. Besides I could also ask you where in the Bible is it stated that Mary was not born a saint?
About mary's mother and grand mother? I can't tell you anything about them because I do not know, full stop. I speak only of knowledge I know and able to verify. The catholic church also comments on what she knows and not what she doesn't know.

Please the bible also used the litral words for brother to describe other relations when it could have used their actual words to describe their relation, such example are in Genesis 13:8 and 14:12, we read of one example of brother being used to describe an extended relationship: Abraham and Lot. Though they were actually uncle and nephew, they called one another "brother." Moreover, in the New Testament, Jesus told us to call one another "brothers" in Matthew 23:8. The passage obviously does not mean to suggest that all Christians have the same physical mother. Also John 19:25 mentions, Mary the mother of Jesus as having a sister also named Mary the wife of clopas, we know that this cannot mean boilogical sisters as two sisters cannot be given the same name. So OLAADEGBU, the bible is not just for litral translations. Logically again, If the bible really wanted to describe the brothers of Jesus as Mary's children then it should have just said so. Why use the brothers of jesus to describe Mary's children, It should have just described them as Mary's children that they are. Only christ is described as the child of mary.
Read more http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/the-case-for-mary%E2%80%99s-perpetual-virginity

OLAADEGBU:


The post addressed your concerns and in case you missed it see the excerpt below:

No, it did not address my concerns. My concerns been that I gave other instances where the bible used literal translations of brothers and sisters and yet did not mean biological brothers or sister. Why then are you drawing a definite conclusion based on the literal translation of brothers and sisters used in the bible?

Why the Bible describes the brothers as been with mary? Please the bible is not a jornal of the lives of the brothers of jesus. How many times was it mentioned that they were with mary? Two or three times? Are you saying the bible should have recorded the millions of times they were with their real parents? To prove what exactly? Brother please reason.

Ichiato:


Please let noone quote me with the question "Where is it in the Bible?". I have stated in earlier posts and given reasons why everything cannot be in the Bible, If you happen to question my logic behind that conclusion then I can entertain questions regarding my reasons behind the said conclusion. Besides I could also ask you where in the Bible is it stated that Mary was not born a saint?
About mary's mother and grand mother? I can't tell you anything about them because I do not know, full stop. I speak only of knowledge I know and able to verify. The catholic church also comments on what she knows and not what she doesn't know.

All Scriptures are God breathed. If it is not in the Scriptures then it is not God breathed, it is open to speculations and conjectures. The Scriptures says "All have sinned and have come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23. Adam and Eve fell short of the glory of God when they sinned. That is what we call the Fall and depravity of Man and the Scriptures made no exception for Mary.

Ichiato:



No, it did not address my concerns. My concerns been that I gave other instances where the bible used literal translations of brothers and sisters and yet did not mean biological brothers or sister. Why then are you drawing a definite conclusion based on the literal translation of brothers and sisters used in the bible?

Why the Bible describes the brothers as been with mary? Please the bible is not a jornal of the lives of the brothers of jesus. How many times was it mentioned that they were with mary? Two or three times? Are you saying the bible should have recorded the millions of times they were with their real parents? To prove what exactly? Brother please reason.

The Scripture only needs to mention it once and I will believe it. You are free to believe what you want but don't say it is the Word of God.

OLAADEGBU:


All Scriptures are God breathed. If it is not in the Scriptures then it is not God breathed, it is open to speculations and conjectures.

Where in the scriptures says if it is not in the scripture then it is not God breathed? or you also manufactured that one? 1 e-knock for you if you don't show me the scripture.

OLAADEGBU:

The Scriptures says "All have sinned and have come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23. Adam and Eve fell short of the glory of God when they sinned. That is what we call the Fall and depravity of Man and the Scriptures made no exception for Mary.

You are saying the scriptures made no exceptions here again. Not everything has to be in the bible.

OLAADEGBU:


The Scripture only needs to mention it once and I will believe it. You are free to believe what you want but don't say it is the Word of God.

Lol, so God cannot make revelations to his people again? It has to be in the bible uh? I have always been free to believe what I want and I will say what I believe. i.e if I believe it is the word of God then i will say it is.

Ichiato:

Where in the scriptures says if it is not in the scripture then it is not God breathed? or you also manufactured that one? 1 e-knock for you if you don't show me the scripture.

You are saying the scriptures made no exceptions here again. Not everything has to be in the bible.

Yes bro,they so quote that verse out of context.also forgetting that Paul could only have been referring to the OT. I believe I debunked his premise in a previous response

Ichiato:


Where in the scriptures says if it is not in the scripture then it is not God breathed? or you also manufactured that one? 1 e-knock for you if you don't show me the scripture.

You are saying the scriptures made no exceptions here again. Not everything has to be in the bible.

If it is not in Scripture don't make a doctrine out of it. It's as simple as that.

.

Ichiato:


Lol, so God cannot make revelations to his people again? It has to be in the bible uh? I have always been free to believe what I want and I will say what I believe. i.e if I believe it is the word of God then i will say it is.

All revelation ended in the last book of the Scripture called "Revelation" There's a curse on anyone who tampers with it.

"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book" (Revelation 22:18-19).

OLAADEGBU:


All revelation ended in the last book of the Scripture called "Revelation" There's a curse on anyone who tampers with it.

"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book" (Revelation 22:18-19).

Please do a bit of research and you'll find this book was disputed for a while. You only know it's the last book from tradition

btoks:


Please do a bit of research and you'll find this book was disputed for a while. You only know it's the last book from tradition

There you go, doubting, denying and disobeying the Word of God. Same tactics the serpent used on Eve.

OLAADEGBU:


All revelation ended in the last book of the Scripture called "Revelation" There's a curse on anyone who tampers with it.

"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book" (Revelation 22:18-19).

Since you're are satisifed with you're reasoning. Can we stop the arguments now?

OLAADEGBU:


I do not think many of them has read what's in Psalm 69:8-9.

They have,but just have no answer to it and therefore tactically omit it.Some have tried to explain that the comment is directed to the nation of Israel which makes no sense.Was Mary also the mother of the nation of Israel?. Have you ever heard them react to Acts 4:12?. Like I said earlier,they know and understand all these falshood and dogmas in them,but because it has been a long time tradition it becomes absolutely difficult to effectuate positive transformation as doing one will lead to other changes too and you know what this means.Total collapse of the CC.So they would rather stick to their evolution and damn the consequences.

chysam:


They have,but just have no answer to it and therefore tactically omit it.Some have tried to explain that the comment is directed to the nation of Israel which makes no sense.Was Mary also the mother of the nation of Israel?. Have you ever heard them react to Acts 4:12?. Like I said earlier,they know and understand all these falshood and dogmas in them,but because it has been a long time tradition it becomes absolutely difficult to effectuate positive transformation as doing one will lead to other changes too and you know what this means.Total collapse of the CC.So they would rather stick to their evolution and damn the consequences.

brother I wish you had addressed my response to your long post earlier so we can have a proper debate. i did not tactically avoid your point about psalm 69:8 in fact I pointed out 69:4 and whether this applies to Jesus. I still await your response.

OLAADEGBU:


There you go, doubting, denying and disobeying the Word of God. Same tactics the serpent used on Eve.

bros I don't doubt the word of God.I was trying to point out that your assertion of Revelations been the last book is down to tradition. The warnings applied to the book of revelations only.the book almost didn't made it into the bible due to disputes so you're taking things for granted centuries after the event

btoks:
brother I wish you had addressed my response to your long post earlier so we can have a proper debate. i did not tactically avoid your point about psalm 69:8 in fact I pointed out 69:4 and whether this applies to Jesus. I still await your response.

Absolutely yes,it applies to Jesus. Or do you object to this?

For all we know, most, if not all, who are busy trying to show us their biblical chastity by condemning the modus operandi of Mother Church, worship somewhere with a 'church name' as well as 'alias' (eg this and that church of the one and only living good god a.k.a. Thunder fire satan sanctuary). So biblical, ain't it?

OLAADEGBU:


There you go, doubting, denying and disobeying the Word of God. Same tactics the serpent used on Eve.

You sound like a native doctor. From the middle east.

btoks:
bros I don't doubt the word of God.I was trying to point out that your assertion of Revelations been the last book is down to tradition. The warnings applied to the book of revelations only.the book almost didn't made it into the bible due to disputes so you're taking things for granted centuries after the event

Leave him, he categorically states that revelation ended with the last book in the bible. I wondered if the bible said that too or he manufactured it .

"Proof that Mary was a sinner, needed a saviour, had more than five
children, and is not mediatrix"


What the Bible has to teach regarding the rightful place, and call God had upon Mary’s life; the Mary who bore Jesus into the world when conceived in her womb by the Holy Spirit.(Matthew 1:18-23).
The Bible makes it very clear that God called Mary as a vehicle for Jesus Christ to be born into the world; a unique and special calling of God upon her life. In the Old Testament there is a prophecy from the Book of Isaiah where God made provision for a virgin to conceive a son whose name would be Immanuel – the fulfillment
of this prophecy found in Matthew 1:23. This prophecy relates to a righteous woman whom God would use, in her virgin state, to give birth to Jesus Christ. This prophecy of Isaiah was given about 750 years before Jesus’ birth.

(1) God speaking through the prophet Isaiah said, Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. (Isaiah 7:14) (KJV) With references to the Bible, Mary was chosen by God, as was previously prophesied by Isaiah for the divine purpose of delivering the holy child Jesus into the world. unique and
special
The Roman Catholic Church (RCC) are in breach to what the Bible teaches with regards to Mary, attributing her to a place of exaltation only Jesus Christ is worthy of receiving.Beside Jesus Christ, no one else can ever be, nor ever will be worthy of exaltation the RCC give Mary; which is both blasphemous and idolatrous.The Bible is the only source which records truthful reference about Mary’s life, therefore one needs to read and study the account of Mary’s life which will shed light upon the truth of what is written about her. Today the Bible is written in our vernacular so that
every person can know what God’s plan of salvation for each of us is.

(2)The infallibility of the Bible:
The Bible has been refuted by many people, and some of the many who have attempted to disprove its infallibility have eventually become its most dedicated proponents. Embarking upon to disprove the truth of the Bible, the words of Scripture have instead reproved skeptic’s lives of sin, righteousness and judgment, brought them to the place of
surrender, and liberated them.
The Bible has the ability to speak into the deepest recesses of our lives and expose every part. The writer of Hebrews said,For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12) (KJV) We cannot escape the Bibles message to us. When its been read and trusted, them who have laid their dependence on it have found it to provide the life Jesus Christ says it would. This is what makes the Bible true to what it says – the Bible does to one what it says it will do. Embrace it with your life, and live by its words.
Jesus promised by saying,If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall
know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. (John 8:31, 32) (KJV)
Jesus had this to say in regard to His word when a woman approached Him about His (Jesus’) mother’s womb and breasts being blessed because they had conceived and nurtured a great prophet into the world (Luke 11:27), but Jesus’ reply to this woman was,
Yea, rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
(Luke 11:28) (KJV).Jesus said it was more blessed to follow the instruction of His word than be sentimental
about His mother who bore Him. The Bible says that God is not a respecter of persons which means that no-one gets preferred treatment (Acts 10:34; Mt. 11:11). Following what God instructs us in His word is more important for our salvation than anything else.

Salvation cannot be found in Mary, neither can salvation be found in any saint the RCC has canonized. Salvation can only be found in Jesus Christ of whom we can come
directly to through the Father. Jesus said,“… I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6) (KJV)

Below I have compiled a study comparing from a biblical perspective what the RCC teach about Mary.

Is Mary whom the Roman Catholic Church acknowledge the Mary of
the Bible?

The Mary of the Roman Catholic Church is not the Mary who is the mother of Jesus Christ. The Bible tells us about a Mary who is very different from the Mary Roman Catholicism revere. This I will prove to you.

Mary was a sinner:
Firstly, the Bible tells us that “all” men have sinned, including Mary the earthly mother Jesus, and have fallen short of the glory of God according to what Romans 3:23 says.Through one man (Adam), sin entered the world and death spread to all men. As death
came through Adam, so life has come through Jesus Christ (Romans 5:12-15).King David writing in the Psalms says that he was brought forth in iniquity and in sin when his mother conceived him, saying that we have all been brought forth in iniquity,
all been born into sin. Reference of this is found in Psalms 51:5. Only Jesus Christ was without sin. The Bible tells us,For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses,but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. (Hebrews 4:15 (NASB)The RCC claims that Mary’s virginity is perpetual. It would have been impossible for Mary to remain a virgin if she had a large family to her husband Joseph. Reference of this
is found in Matthew 13:55, 56.
Another RCC claim is Mary’s sinless state. Again, it was impossible for Mary to have been sinless because under Jewish law a woman who gave birth to a first born male was required to offer a sacrifice for sin. These Jewish laws were still in effect during the time of Jesus’ birth and ministry. The apostle Paul says,But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a
woman, made under the law(Galatians 4:4) (KJV) Read Luke 2:21-23 for verification of the law requiring a mother to offer sacrifices for the birth of her first born son.Ascribing to Mary a state of sinlessness is another attempt by the RCC to exalt Mary to
the place only the Lord Jesus rightfully possesses.
That Mary was not only a virgin before the birth of Christ but after her family of children to Joseph, Rome claims,
The deepening of faith in the virginal motherhood led the Church to confess
Mary’s real and perpetual virginity even in the act of giving birth to the Son of God made man. In fact, Christ's birth ‘did not diminish his mother’s virginal integrity but sanctified it. ’And so the liturgy of the Church celebrates Mary as Aeiparthenos, the ‘Ever-virgin’”

(3) Elaborating upon what has already been said, the first thing needing to be understood is Jesus was born under the law of Moses, therefore, according to the Law of Moses every
Jewish mother that gave birth to her first male child had to offer sacrifices to God. One of the sacrifices was a burnt offering, and the other was a sin offering. This is in accordance
to the Talmud (law of Moses) found in the book of Leviticus chap. 12. In order to get a better understanding of this, Leviticus chap. 12 needs to be read in conjunction with Luke
2:21-23.By offering the required sacrifices according to the law, Mary admits her sinful state and offers those sacrifices according to the “ ... law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons” one a burnt offering, and the other a sin offering (Luke 2:24).Luke’s record in conjunction with Leviticus 12 says “And if she be not able to bring a
lamb, then she shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons; the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering” (Leviticus 12:. Mary and Joseph were possibly unable to afford a lamb, so instead brought a pair of
turtledoves, and two young pigeons: one for the burnt offering, and the other for the sin offering. Upon Mary’s own admission of being a sinner she presents these sacrifices to the Lord.

Richard Bennett, ex-catholic priest writes:The unadorned truth is that like all other genuine believers, Mary of
Bethlehem was a sinner saved by God’s grace, through faith, not by any
essential righteousness or preserving grace granted in her own birth, nor any elevation of virginity within marriage as a higher call than what the Lord has decreed in His word. In this way she was and is truly blessed among women!” Read Luke 1:28, 42 for reference.

(4) Mary, God’s handmaiden of low estate Mary admits her position as being a handmaiden of low estate, and no more than this. She
acknowledges how God uses her as a vessel to give birth to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Admitting that Jesus Christ is her Saviour, she also admits her need of salvation.By Mary’s own words, she removes any idea of pre-eminence so as not to assume herself above God’s calling of her.For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. (Luke 1:48) (KJV)

Mary had more than five children
There is very clear evidence recorded in the Scriptures that Jesus had a family which consisted of brothers and sisters. How could it be possible for Mary to ever have remained or continued being a virgin if having given birth to children after her birth of Jesus while married to Joseph. For Mary to be declared "immaculate" and “Aeiparthenos,the ‘Ever-virgin’” by the RCC is certainly not in accord with what the Bible teaches.Consider this biblical reference about Mary having had children to Joseph after her birth
of Jesus.Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?(Matthew 13:55, 56) (KJV)
In another, and seemingly desperate attempt to preserve the tradition that Mary remains forever a virgin, the Church of Rome refute the passage of Scripture, Matthew 13:55, 56,
saying that the Mary referred to there is not the Mary who conceived Jesus.
Rome claims,Against this doctrine the objection is sometimes raised that the Bible mentions brothers and sisters of Jesus. The Church has always understood these passages as not referring to other children of the Virgin Mary. In fact James and Joseph, ‘brothers of Jesus’, are the sons of another Mary, a disciple of Christ, whom St. Matthew significantly calls ‘the other Mary’.They are close relations of Jesus, according to an Old Testament expression.

(5)f the Catechism claims that it was another Mary recorded in Matthew 13:55, 56, they twist the Scripture to suit their own objective and mislead many from the truth. Recorded
clearly in Matthew 13:55, 56 is reference that Mary, the mother of Jesus, had many children to Joseph.
Besides Rome’s exhalation of Mary, could this not be an attempt to portray her as a role model for nuns and priests to live a celibate life?

Is Mary the “mediatrix” between man and God?

If we try but fail to meet God’s expectation of us, He will understand, have mercy, and lead us to repentance because Jesus, who made Himself a propitiation for our sin,
represents the believer before God and mediates for us.The Bible says,
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the
man Christ Jesus; (1 Timothy 2:5) (KJV).Atonement for our sin had to first be accomplished through Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on the cross leading to His death, resurrection, and ascension. This had to all result before He could become our high priest and mediator before God on man’s behalf. By His own sufferings, Jesus is now able to identify with our suffering as our faithful high priest providing pardon for our sins.Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is
able to come to the aid of those who are tempted. (Hebrews 2:17-18)
(NASB).Unless we are repentant of our sinful acts and behavior, and ask the Lord’s forgiveness,we will never experience the liberty He has abundantly provided for us by His saving grace. The Bible declares “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9). It is encouraging to note what Isaiah prophesied regarding how Jesus painstakingly took upon Himself all our affliction (Isaiah 53:3-8; Matthew 8:17; 1 Peter 2:21-25). In our failure to live righteously, and repenting of our sinful behaviour, the sacrifice paid on the cross, His blood which was shed for the washing away of our sin, and believing in what He did for us will make us acceptable to the Father in redeeming us back to God. This is the only means upon which we can be saved.
In man’s unregenerate state there is no good work one can do to appease or obtain favor with God or of which we think can make us righteously acceptable before Him. The Bible says, “But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.” (Isaiah 64:6).
To reject what the Bible says about the salvation God has brought through Jesus Christ His Son, brings God’s wrath upon us.Another false claim Roman Catholicism teaches is that God is angry when we fail in His
expectation of us, and that Mary is there to appease Christ’s anger by her intercession for us. This is scripturally unfounded and in no way biblically supported. Consider this
scripture:
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if
any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the
righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours
only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:1, 2)
That Roman Catholicism teaches Mary advocates before Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of our sins is a direct contradiction to what the Bible teaches in 1 John 2:1, 2. The Bible
teaches that Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit make intercession before the Father for the believer who repents of their sin.The Vatican teaches,
“...Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the (Roman Catholic) Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.”

(6) More details of the heresy that Mary has such eminence are given in the Vatican Council II Documents,
“In the words of the apostle there is but one mediator: ‘for there is but one
God and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave
himself a redemption for all’ (I Tim. 2:5-6). But Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men originates not in any inner necessity but in the disposition of God....”

(7) And again,“...Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the (Roman Catholic) Church
under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix. This
however, is so understood that it neither takes away anything from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficacy of Christ the one Mediator”

( While the RCC presents Mary as a mediator, they claim Mary does not obscure or diminish from the unique mediation of Christ. Where the Bible is very clear about Jesus Christ being the only mediator between man and God, Roman Catholicism ignore to
acknowledge this truth of what the Bible teaches.The RCC forbid its members enquiring as to what the Bible teaches about the communion God wants to have with us, which is, the acknowledgment of the Father
through the mediation of Jesus Christ the Son. Jesus is mediator between man and God, a position which Roman Catholicism say Mary along with Christ share. The RCC mislead
by this false teaching.The Bible says that Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father as our high priest making intercession for them who come to Him for their sin with a repentant heart, and also providing the opportunity for reconciliation to the Father (Hebrews 2:17). In order for
Christ to have become our high priest making intercession for us, it was necessary for Him to suffer at the hands of men, die for their sins, resurrect from the dead on the third
day (Romans 8:34; 1 Corinthians 15:1-23), and ascend into heaven to be seated at God’s right hand. Jesus Christ continues to sit at God’s right hand making intercession for the
needs of the saints (the redeemed of God) as our faithful high priest (Heb. 4:14-16; 5:1-2; 7:22-26; 8:1-2). Jesus at God’s right hand also administers spiritual gifts to the Church,the body of Christ, in order to make them effective in ministry to reach the world with Gospel of Christ (Psalms 68:18). This has been all accredited to Jesus Christ and Him alone.

Jesus Christ alone is the way to the Father Jesus said,I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father,but by me. (John 14:6).There is a difference between mediation and intercession. Jesus Christ is mediator and intercessor between man and God, and the Holy Spirit intercessor (Hebrews 7:22-25;
Romans 8:26, 27).The Bible says that Jesus Christ mediates for us before the Father.For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (1 Timothy 2:5) (KJV)
By so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant.Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing.
But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood.
Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God
through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.(Hebrews 7:22-25) (NASB).The Bible says the Holy Spirit intercedes for us before the Father.Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints
according to the will of God. (Romans 8:26, 27) (KJV)

Is there an addition to the tri-unity of God? Christ Jesus along with the Father and the Holy Spirit, are the Godhead, the all Holy One.
The RCC claim that Mary is also the All Holy One, entitling her advocate, helper, and mediatrix. Only Jesus Christ is worthy of such titles. To even remotely consider Mary worthy of such titles, and place divine roles upon her is blasphemous. The official
teaching of Rome adds insult to blasphemy in attempting to call Mary, the mother of Jesus, the All Holy One.
The Vatican claims,By asking Mary to pray for us, we acknowledge ourselves to be poor sinners
and we address ourselves to the ‘Mother of Mercy,’ the All Holy One.”

(9)“From the (Roman Catholic) Church he (the Catholic) learns the example of holiness and recognizes its model and source in the all-holy Virgin Mary...”

(10).The Bible makes clear that there are three that bear record in heaven, and not four, that is if Mary is to be included:
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the word, and
the Holy Spirit: and these three are one. (1 John 5:7) (KJV)

The RCC claim that the priest is the only one who is able to interpret the Scriptures.

chysam:


Absolutely yes,it applies to Jesus. Or do you object to this?

I actually meant 69:5.Jesus had sins?one needs to delve deeper to understand that psalm which is why you can't just pluck mother's children to mean Mary's children.

btoks:
I actually meant 69:5.Jesus had sins?one needs to delve deeper to understand that psalm which is why you can't just pluck mother's children to mean Mary's children.

Comrade,I argued the bible much better than you when I was still a RC.So much that my Cathecist shed tears uncontrolably when I saw the light and decided to leave in order to be salvaged.Like you now,I spent all my time learning how to twist the bible and evolve baseless reasons just to promote and defend the Maria Dogma.I pray you will someday receive this much needed understanding.

Psalm 69:5.This verse is not a confession of sin, but a protestation of innocence, He maintains that he is a sufferer, not for his sins, but for his piety.The sins of those for whom Christ died, by being imputed to him, no doubt became his in the eyes of the law, in such a sense as to make him answerable for them. But the Scriptures, be it observed, while they speak of him as "wounded for our transgressions, and bruised for our iniquities," and as "bearing our sins in his own body on the tree," as if afraid to use any forms of expression which would even seem to derogate from his immaculate purity, speak of the sins of those for whom he died as his own sin. Please see Psalm 69:7 to lend credence to the above truth.

Ichiato:


Since you're are satisifed with you're reasoning. Can we stop the arguments now?

Not until the daystar appears and folks begin to see the gospel light.

chysam:


They have,but just have no answer to it and therefore tactically omit it.Some have tried to explain that the comment is directed to the nation of Israel which makes no sense.Was Mary also the mother of the nation of Israel?. Have you ever heard them react to Acts 4:12?. Like I said earlier,they know and understand all these falshood and dogmas in them,but because it has been a long time tradition it becomes absolutely difficult to effectuate positive transformation as doing one will lead to other changes too and you know what this means.Total collapse of the CC.So they would rather stick to their evolution and damn the consequences.

It beats my imagination that they do not see the Messianic prophecy in Psalm 69:8-9 which clears up the heresy that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus.

"I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children. For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me"

It should be clear to any sincere seeker of the truth that Christ's human siblings are referred to in the bold cited above but would they see that?

btoks:


bros I don't doubt the word of God.I was trying to point out that your assertion of Revelations been the last book is down to tradition. The warnings applied to the book of revelations only.the book almost didn't made it into the bible due to disputes so you're taking things for granted centuries after the event

When I assert that the Scriptures are God breathed and verbally inspired you should realise that it has little or nothing to do with your church traditions. Even if you erroneously argue that the NT was compiled by your church has your church got anything to do with the Hebrew Scriptures? If your answer is yes then you should have known that All Scriptures, including the book of Revelation are verbally inspired by the Holy Spirit. The verses below shows that God is the author of the Scriptures, which excludes your man tradition:

"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you"

(Deuteronomy 4:2).

"What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it" (Deuteronomy 12:32)

"Add thou not unto His words, lest He reprove thee, and thou be found a liar"

(Proverbs 30:6).

Now compare these verses with Revelation 22:18-19 and see whether the sin of blasphemy is not as serious as God says it is.

"For I testify unto every man that hears the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add to these things, God shall add to him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book"

(Revelation 22:18-19).

This should warn us of the danger of adding or removing from the Bible (Old and New Testaments) by assuming or allegorising what is clearly written in the holy Scriptures. John was the last apostle to pen down the last book of the Bible and no church tradition or dogma should stand as a rival to it.

OLAADEGBU:
Question: "What does the Bible say about the virgin Mary?"

Answer: Mary the mother of Jesus was described by God as "highly favoured" (Luke 1:28). The phrase "highly favoured" comes from a single Greek word, which essentially means "much grace." Mary received God’s grace.

Grace is "unmerited favour," meaning something we receive despite the fact that we do not deserve it. Mary needed grace from God just as the rest of us do. Mary herself understood this fact, as she declared in Luke 1:47, “. . . and my spirit rejoices in God my Saviour. . .”

Mary recognized that she needed the Saviour. The Bible never says that Mary was anyone but an ordinary human whom God chose to use in an extraordinary way. Yes, Mary was a righteous woman and favoured (graced) by God (Luke 1:27-28). At the same time, Mary was a sinful human being who needed Jesus Christ as her Saviour, just like everyone else (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 6:23; 1 John 1:8.)

Mary did not have an "immaculate conception." The Bible doesn’t suggest Mary’s birth was anything but a normal human birth. Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus (Luke 1:34-38), but the idea of the perpetual virginity of Mary is unbiblical. Matthew 1:25, speaking of Joseph, declares, "But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave Him the name Jesus."

The word "until" clearly indicates that Joseph and Mary did have sexual union after Jesus was born. Joseph and Mary had several children together after Jesus was born. Jesus had four half-brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). Jesus also had half-sisters, although they are not named or numbered (Matthew 13:55-56). God blessed and graced Mary by giving her several children, which in that culture was the clearest indication of God’s blessing on a woman.

One time when Jesus was speaking, a woman in the crowd proclaimed, "Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed" (Luke 11:27). There was never a better opportunity for Jesus to declare that Mary was indeed worthy of praise and adoration. What was Jesus’ response? "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it" (Luke 11:28). To Jesus, obedience to God’s Word was more important than being the woman who gave birth to the Saviour.

Nowhere in Scripture does Jesus, or anyone else, direct any praise, glory, or adoration towards Mary. Elizabeth, Mary’s relative, praised Mary in Luke 1:42-44, but her praise is based on the blessing of giving birth to the Messiah. It was not based on any inherent glory in Mary.

Mary was present at the cross when Jesus died (John 19:25). Mary was also with the apostles on the day of Pentecost (Acts 1:14). However, Mary is never mentioned again after Acts chapter 1. The apostles did not give Mary a prominent role. Mary’s death is not recorded in the Bible. Nothing is said about Mary ascending to heaven or having an exalted role there. As the earthly mother of Jesus, Mary should be respected, but she is not worthy of our worship or adoration.

The Bible nowhere indicates that Mary can hear our prayers or that she can mediate for us with God. Jesus is our only advocate and mediator in heaven (1 Timothy 2:5). If offered worship, adoration, or prayers, Mary would say the same as the angels: "Worship God!" (see Revelation 19:10; 22:9.) Mary herself sets the example for us, directing her worship, adoration, and praise to God alone: "My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Saviour, for He has been mindful of the humble state of His servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed, for the Mighty One has done great things for me — holy is His name" (Luke 1:46-49).

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/virgin-Mary.html#ixzz3CGQKef6b

read revelation 12

Weah96:


You sound like a native doctor. From the middle east.

Have you read my response to your enquiry?

Ichiato:


Leave him, he categorically states that revelation ended with the last book in the bible. I wondered if the bible said that too or he manufactured it .

The apostle John was the last apostle to pen down the inspired Word of God. Any other word that contradicts the 66 books of the Bible is either the word of man or that of demons.

OLAADEGBU:


The John was the last apostle to pen down the inspired Word of God. Any other word that contradicts the 66 books of the Bible is either the word of man or that of demons.

Guy go and rest jor.

clefstone:


read revelation 12

What does it say?

OLAADEGBU:


What does it say?

I bellieve u hv a bible