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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Family / Equality In Not Always Justice (6504 Views)
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Equality In Not Always Justice by Nobody: 12:12pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
This picture speaks for itself. As we all can see; equality is not always justice. I have read a lot on Nairaland lately women wanting equality with men. There have been two recent threads where the debate got heated and sometimes meaningless. If the argument of these women was about equal rights; I would perfectly understand and be 100% supportive as I genuinely believe in equal rights for all regardless of race, gender, physical disability, religion or even sexual orientation. But when some women come here to fight for equality with men, I get confused. Seeking equality with someone else, suggests inferiority complex because it means you already accept that you are inferior which should not be the case. Women are not inferior to men neither are men inferior to women. Women and men were created different so there is no basis for equality as there will never be. Even our very fingers are not equal but I do not think one is more important that the other. So, when the argument for equality rages I just do not understand what these arguments are about. Societies that are developed realize that people are fundamentally different and some people may have special needs while some don’t. So if all people are treated equally, then some may be permanently disadvantaged while others at an advantage. On one of the threads, someone even quarried parents that teach their girls how to sit differently from the boys claiming this is biased. I am a parent myself and I teach my girls how to sit properly because they wear skirts and dresses. Boys can get away sitting relaxed but I am sorry, may be a lady cannot especially if she is wearing a dress or skirt. Another even claimed that football is not necessarily a man’s sport and woman watch as much as men. She even went on to describe how girls are discouraged from studying engineering and the few that study engineering never go to site because of silly excuses such as pregnancy. I wondered how a woman could call pregnancy a silly excuse not to go be able to go to site. In developed worlds it is enough reason not to come to work for months. Another talked about men doing more household chores. I thought that was a conversation between a man and wife; this should not become a movement. We all need to understand that men and women are not the same. They are different, certain things appeal to men more than women. Go to any stadium on a Saturday or Sunday and 90% of the fans would be men. I can understand why engineering appeals more to men because engineers are thought of as macho guys who actually make things with their hands in factories etc. Please, there is nothing wrong in being a woman. It is not a derogatory word. I have a wife who is very comfortable being a woman and she has no inferiority complex. She is beautiful, intelligent, confident and driven. She loves herself and does not seek equality with anyone because she is content being herself and does not feel inferior to me or anybody else. A young lady by the name of Kim Kardashian has made a lot of money selling her feminity (not sure it’s a word). While I do not approve of her lifestyle, what Kim K sells to the world is just her feminity; and 90% of her followers are women. She is a beautiful woman with “assets” and that is all she sells. We have several women who have excelled in Nigeria without necessarily fighting for equality with anyone. Late Dora, Ngozi, Dezaini, Stella Oduah, Mobola Johnson to mention a few. Their hard work and intelligence speak for them. There are some issues that are peculiar to women and need to be addressed for women sake. Teenage girls suffer more consequences of teenage pregnancy than their teen boyfriends who may run away, deny or just move on. Girls are twice as like to have HIV than guys during sex. Women generally have more STDs than men and contact STDs easier than men, so if a parent gives special attention to his daughter’s upbringing; it is because she would be a lot worse of than a teen boyfriend if they both make a mistake. This does not mean the boys should not be brought up properly or allowed to misbehave; but most times women suffer more for these mistakes. The monthly cycle and other stuff women go through also suggest they need to pay more attention to personal hygiene. This is not placing any unnecessary burden on women, it is just a hard fact of life. Sorry, no amount of equality preaching can change these facts of life. I would like to conclude with the thread from Emma Watson’s write up. I thought it was a good piece and I was to bring out some lessons. Three keys lessons from that piece are as follows: 1. It is not about man-hating: This is another popular trend amongst some women on Nairaland who just blame men for every wrong in the world. Some have even suggested it is ok to wish a ”bad” husband dead 2. It is not a Nigerian problem: It is a global problem. Women are under-represented in government positions, corporate bodies and religious institutions all over the world. The Western world is trying to address this problem and they are far ahead of Africa and Nigeria. However, I would say Nigeria is way ahead of most parts of Asia and the Middle East. In fact I have been to a few countries and I know Nigerian men are in high demand . Unfortunately, I cannot say the same for Nigerian chics . Because only in Nigeria will a man be dating a girl, and then her family, friends and friend’s cat becomes his responsibility. 3. Both men and women are suffering: One area where the society has done a good job for example is making women aware of health issues such as breast cancer. Most men don’t even know what Prostate cancer is and a lot of education is still needed for men. There is still a lot of work to be done in ensuring fairness and justice for women globally and in Nigeria in particular. We should follow the west in ensuring fair representation of women in the workforce and at senior levels. We need stronger laws to protect women against rape and to protect widows and give them property rights. A lot more should be done in terms of education for the girl child and preventing underaged marriage. A lot of work needs to be done, but it is not a Nigeria-only problem neither is it a problem that is caused by men. However, fighting for equality is not the solution because it could suggest women and men should be treated the same way all the time. That is inherently flawed because men and women are different and would never be the same. Men cannot get pregnant and cannot breastfeed; that will not change no matter the fight for equality. What we need is justice to ensure that even though gender roles may be different, all parties are equally protected and respected in our society. I repeat again; equality is not necessarily justice. I do not think treating men and women equally all the time is what women really need. Women would be worse off in my opinion. What we all need is equity; that means giving everyone what they need to succeed in life. And these needs will always be different. 6 Likes
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Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by Nobody: 12:29pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
Great topic. I think the debate these days is more of equity. Meaning each should have what they need to suceed and not be restricted by gender, race or religion. Meanwhile the topic the other day was on women mourning "bad" husbands and not wishing bad husbands dead. When you kept trying to turn it into that I was careful to clearly state what the topic was about, a woman choosing the right to mourn a husband who didnt act like a husband as commanded by Christ and not women killing their husbands or wishing them dead as you tried to make it seem that day. |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by bukatyne(f): 12:33pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
equality /ɪˈkwɒlɪti,iː-/ noun noun: equality; plural noun: equalities 1. the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, or opportunities. "an organization aiming to promote racial equality" synonyms: fairness, justness, equitability, impartiality, even-handedness, egalitarianism, equal rights, equal opportunities, non-discrimination; antonyms: inequality https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=what+is+the+definition+of+equality&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7WZPG_enNG434&gws_rd=ssl equity/ˈɛkwɪti/ noun noun: equity; singular proper noun: Equity; noun: Equity 1. the quality of being fair and impartial. "equity of treatment" synonyms: fairness, fair-mindedness, justness, justice, equitableness, fair play; https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=what+is+the+definition+of+equality&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7WZPG_enNG434&gws_rd=ssl#rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-SearchBox&q=what+is+the+definition+of+equity I edit this later Before I edit, yme1's post just brought to focus what I was thinking immediately I read the OP: 99% of people who say men and women are not equal are not coming from a 'men has pen.s; women have v.gay' or 'men like blue women like pink' thingy but from a 'men are superior to women' aspect. 1 Like |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by yme1(f): 12:33pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
I think equality can be right and wrong at the same time. It all depends on what point of view and ones perspective on it. I am in full support of the equal pay for equal work between a man and a woman but then again someone else might argue against this. But I do believe in this fight for equality, in general a man cannot or should not be equal to a woman especially in marriage, two captains they say cannot call the shots in one ship. it is either they both put ideas together and one person gives out the orders from the gathered idea or risk the ship sinking For some, fighting for equality might be same as fighting for justice and fairness To each its own. 2 Likes |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by bukatyne(f): 12:39pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
yme1: @Bolded: A man should not be equal to a woman (as in a man is superior or a man has pen.s; a woman has v.gay type of 'inequality')? |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by Tallesty1(m): 12:47pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
yme1:Good one. |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by Nobody: 12:51pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
bukatyne: Going by this definition, Equality and Equity are the same. so why are people creating distinctions between the two? What is wrong with treating others the exact way you would like to be treated as taught in the bible? Isnt that equality itself? I dnt understand. It seems a lot of people are confused over what they are arguing for. Equal rights, equal opportunities, fairness and justice is what equality is about. 4 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by edwife(f): 12:57pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
We are about to witness another round of nonstop arguments on who is superior or not.The reason I do not participate in those arguments is simple,I do what works for me.It has gone personal and we really need to slow down. Being a wife and a mother is by choice. ![]() 2 Likes |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by Nobody: 2:04pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
Sophyrocks: Not always the same. From the picture, the left was equality. Treating everybody the same way. The right was equity - which is more like fairness. My whole point is that men and women cannot always be treated the same way all the time because it may not be always fair. |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by yme1(f): 2:08pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
bukatyne: Superiority and Equality are two different thing. Like I said earlier, two captains can't call the shots. The world does not work that way, everyone can't be equal in terms of power, status, riches, talent, intelligence, et al that same arithmetic applies to man and woman. As stated earlier this is my own opinion and differs from some others ![]() |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by Nobody: 2:08pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
edwife: True, @ another round of arguements. 1 Like |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by Nobody: 2:10pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
Nashville: The definition of equality still talks about fairness and justice. Let me ask you, i believe you are a christian, "what does doing unto others what you would like them to do unto you" mean? When that command was made, was it talking about a particular gender or both genders? I want to understand where you are coming from when you say "Both genders should be treated differently. 3 Likes |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by yme1(f): 2:16pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
bukatyne:Neither did I say it was, I used that as an example from the different forms of equality that is being fought for If you read from the beginning of my post you can see I touched another aspect relating to pay at work Again, To each its own |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by bukatyne(f): 2:16pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
yme1: You seem not to understand my question. I want to leave marriage out of it and discuss in general This is my question below: bukatyne: |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by bukatyne(f): 2:18pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
Nashville: If we are going that route, it is not fair to pay men and women the same wage for the same job done: A man would most likely be the breadwinner and will definitely need more money It is not fair to employ men and women based on their skills; it is would fairer to employ more men for the reason above Who determines what is 'fair' |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by bukatyne(f): 2:19pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
yme1: I said your post brought my thoughts into focus What I was not clear about, I asked and I am still waiting for your reply ![]() |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by edwife(f): 2:30pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
aisha2: ![]() ![]() ![]() And as usual i will be by the side reading..... I must confess,i love the entertainment though... ![]() |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by Nobody: 2:30pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
Sophyrocks: I can mention several things. There have been several times when my secretary comes to me saying she has to go home because of menstrual pain (wierd she tells me such). And I always let her go. A guy cannot try that o. Sometimes engineers have to do some lifting and climbing. Most women generally do not want to do such and I genuinely believe it shoud not count against them. The physically stronger person should do heavy lifting. A female in the office says she is pregnant. Even if it is one month sef, she comes in and goes as she pleases. No guy can even try that. Women have some issues that are specific and unique to women alone. If we all went by the rule of treating every body equally, then may be some of those issues will never be addressed because they do not bother men. But treating people fairly means that such issues should be catered for to ensure that everyone's right is protected. 1 Like |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by yme1(f): 2:39pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
bukatyne: My Answer: A man should not be equal to a woman because, Men are physically stronger by nature, they are usually more aggressive and externally oriented. In contrast, a woman usually embodies the ideal of inner dignity. By me saying a man and woman should not be equal does not mean a woman is inferior and the man is superior. In the real sense, women are emotionally more stronger than a man and they can either break a man or build him. Men and women are naturally different in physical strength and emotional strength, they think differently, even dress differently, speak with different voice and pitch and their whole internal system body and mind is different so with this in mind there is a purpose for those differences and their social rights cannot be the same but can benefit each other and society. 1 Like |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by bukatyne(f): 2:42pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
yme1: Ok, thanks |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by Nobody: 2:43pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
Nashville: Thank God for Equality, she should not get to go home because she has menstrual cramps except she has a medical report which says she cant work when she is on her period. For the pregnant women, its unfair for her to come in once a month and it is allowed to slide. She can either take a sick leave or an extended leave if she is having a difficult pregnancy but not showing up or just showing up when she decides is not professional. I am a woman, I carry babies and that is not acceptable. 4 Likes |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by Nobody: 2:44pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
Nashville: O.k now i get the differences you are talking about. I agree that men are from venus and women are from Mars hence the differences. But the differences Must not include preferential treatment just because that would defeat the ppurpose of fairness and justice. Thats my understanding anyways. I agree. |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by TV01(m): 3:10pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
aisha2:I don't agree - and that is not even what obtains in progressive places. Everyone has responsibility in determining their health/capability. True for some women it may be a chronic issue and documented, but for others it may vary in severity. If a woman says her cycle is causing her debilitating pain - debilitating enough for her to leave the office - off she goes, whether it's frequent or a one off. She may need medical sign-off for a longer absence, but as a man and a manager, I would not question that - I'd even be cautious if she had a history of malingering. There are also differentials in "pain threshold" between men and women. I've had to re-orient myself away from "equality" in this regards with my wife. It would just be insensitive of me to do otherwise. And I'm also factoring in the differentials between men and othe rmen. aisha2:As per my first answer, if that is what she determines she is able to manage, then it slides. The business may take a view that she should just not bother and sign her off, but she doesn't get tagged in any way, if her presence is impacted by her condition. TV |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by Nobody: 3:16pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
TV01: True to some extent but I am a woman and sadly I see so many women taking advantage of this. Endometrisis is extreme case of period pains and the sufferer should get a doctors report and it can be treated like any other sickness as asthma etc but if the employee knows before getting into the organization then she should do full disclosure during medicals not to get to work and start missing work every 3 days because its her cycle. If we recieve the same salary as men then we should be able to do same amount of work and not push our work over to our male colleagues because they may not have periods and all. 1 Like |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by freecocoa(f): 3:19pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
This topic again. No one is seeking equality because we believe that we are inferior to men, the movement for equality arose because 'men' behave like they are superior to women, this mentality is what the struggle aims to change. 2 Likes |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by TV01(m): 3:21pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
aisha2:And that - I believe - is the point Nash is making, true equality understands and works with that fact of life. And it sees the bigger picture. Birth pains are for the long-term good and survival of us all. TV 2 Likes |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by Nobody: 3:33pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
TV01: This I agree with. |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by Nobody: 4:29pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
aisha2: My point is that all cannot be treated equally. It never works. Some people will need special treatment and it is not necessarily preferencial. They just need it to achieve their objectives. Sorry, I do not treat my wife exactly the same way she treats me. Sometimes, she makes some special requests that I would hardly make or her. Like driving her around because she is tired ![]() Gender roles are different and rather than claiming we should all be treated equally, my whole point is that our differences should all be accommodated in ensuring a peaceful soceity. |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by TV01(m): 4:50pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
Nashville:"Equality" as is pursued now is more about making different things the same - therein lies the rub. To do so artificial means there must be compromise, cost or sacrifice. Take this for example; I always try and think big picture when it comes to strong families and flourishing societies. And this holds for questions about equality. I’m all for equal opportunity for men and women, but I also want to know how this affects the whole family - including our children – and society. In the UK, women Doctors have increased by 50% over the last 15 years or so, and it is projected that women will oustrip men in the profession in the not to distant furture. A a quarter or so work flexibly (P/T) and more than half ultimately leave the profession. This means that health care delivery is severely impacted and the actual cost of providing it spirals upwards as basically, 2 women doctors have to be trained for every one actually required due to the attrition. Further, studies show. that even where female Dr’s work F/T, they do not work as many hours as men. The practice of medicine has effectively been "feminised". With work practices changing to reflect their needs Few GPs now offer out of hours services as routine, most visits are by appointment to accomodate flexible working, and there are longer queues for both appointment and emergency visits. Given this, would it make sense - and ultimately ensure that a robust service was delivered - to have a form of customary discrimination in favour of men in the medical profession? And what could be happening to the over 50% of them that leave the profession? Is it suitability, hypergamy or what exactly? TV |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by Stillfire: 5:14pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
You can call it whatever, as far as you get the message that a man is by no means superior to a woman. |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by Nobody: 6:21pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
Male and female: Same? NO Equal? YES Gender roles are totally welcome in my world, cos we are not made the same way and no matter how hard we try, the hormonal differences always have a way of differentiating us. 2 things don't have to be the same to be equal. 2 #5 noted are not the same, but equal to 1 #10 note. Apart from the grammartical something in the opening post, I totally agree with the concept ![]() |
Re: Equality In Not Always Justice by Nobody: 6:28pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
Stillfire: |
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