Superman whenever I read about Abraham, for here was a man, a real man, who without super powers certainly acted in super ways.
 
Abraham was certainly no cuddly type of grandfather figure similar to how he is fictitiously portrayed today. The real Abraham Avinu invoked awe and fear in the hearts of those he encountered, not feelings of warmth and love. Avraham was a rabble rouser, a rebel, an iconoclast, and a revolutionary. He showed absolutely no respect for the corrupt social/political establishment in which he was raised.
 
He certainly did not accept the modern day idea to work within the system to bring about change. Abraham was no coward. He was fearless. He was a man, a superman; who acted with strength and resolve, caring nothing for the feelings, and sensitivities, of the misguided. Abraham would not allow himself to be emasculated, to act as less than a man. When faced with social/religious nonsense and injustice, he acted against the system. He did not seek to modify it; he sought to replace it, by whatever means possible.
 
Abraham was a warrior, not just in word, but in deed. One who just talks does not act. One who just acts can be a bull-headed fool. Yet, one who knows how to unite the two, to talk and act in harmony; such a one is heard; such a one can change the world. Yet, such a person must be willing to "walk one's talk," and to embrace conflict, if that is what needs be.
 
Abraham was a man unafraid of conflict. He recognized well that wars are won with a combination of words and arms. He began his war against social/religious hypocrisy by force of words and when necessary conducted it by force of arms. Through it all, God was with him. Because Abraham was not willing to compromise; because he stayed on target doing the right thing, regardless of consequence, God saw in him the potential to become the father of the chosen nation. Mind you, being chosen did not make one better, smarter, better looking or more rich. Being chosen instead gave one a heavy burden, a responsibility to carry out a nearly impossible task. Yet, who better than a human superman could be chosen to carry out such an impossible mission.
 
Traditional Judaism, as it developed in exile, placed emphasis on Abraham's attributes of mercy and hospitality. This was a deliberate attempt to remove the rich martial mentality from Jewish history that came to a crashing end with the defeat of the Bar Kokhba revolt against ancient Rome.
 
Since this period, accustomed to exile, Jewish leaders have always endeavored to cover up the Jewish martial past for reasons that are subject to much controversy. Yet, before these embellishments were developed, the Biblical story plainly describes Abraham as a desert warrior and a tribal chieftain.
 
Outside and away from his martial element, Abraham is praised and extolled as being a man of hospitality. Yet, this is nothing unique. Even to this day, desert chieftains and tribal elders are proud of the hospitality they show their guests, and the viciousness they show their enemies. Abraham was not very much different. Indeed, if Abraham were alive today, modern day tribal chiefs would hold him in the highest esteem.
 
Ancient legend tells us that the religious and political authorities of his day tried Abraham for crimes against the state, and sentenced him to death. Yet, a miracle occurred and he was miraculously spared. It was only after this encounter, when Abraham had proven himself and was Divinely vindicated did God tell him to leave that place and to go far away to start anew.
 
Abraham did not run away. He was in no danger. He had won his battle. Yet, now being victorious, there was nothing more that he could do. Those who would hear him had already listened. Those who would not hear him never would. The present state was a stalemate. Therefore, God told Avraham that enough was enough and that it was time to take matters to the next level and that that could only happen in isolation, far away from prying eyes and jealous hearts. So, to Canaan Abraham went, with "all the souls he made in Haran." These are those who saw the truth and could no longer live in a community based upon lies.
 
Abraham up until now was a man of the city, an urban dweller. He now had to learn to become a desert nomad and a tribal chief. He became responsible for those souls he had "made." He had to provide for them both spiritual and physically. Indeed, he rose up to the occasion and did what he was expected to do.
 
The real Abraham was a man molded by controversy and adversity. Although God was certainly on his side, nonetheless the nomadic lifestyle that Abraham and his tribe lived was arduous and hard. It made Avraham and his party tougher and stronger than they already were from the battles in Ur Casdim.
 
After the legendary victory over the fire in the days of Nimrod, no one would ever dare mess with Abraham. Indeed, years later, in Canaan, when Lot was taken captive, Abraham, in the typical desert fashion of his day, attacked those who laid hands upon his kin. Abraham did not enter into negotiations with them, nor did he offer any bribes, and certainly made no requests for mercy to anyone other than God. Abraham attacked his enemies and slaughtered them, as would be expected of any powerful tribal chief.
 
Abraham was also a man of honor. When restoring the booty from the battle, he wanted nothing for himself. Although he made arrangements for his companions to receive their rewards, Abraham's reward was the knowledge that he had performed a job well done. True men of honor do not seek financial wealth as their rewards; they seek only honor and respect. Indeed, Abraham deserved both, not only from men, but also from Heaven.
 
This was the reason why Heaven chose Abraham to become its agent here on Earth. This ordination of sorts occurred when Abraham met Melchizedek, and through him made an offering of thanks to God. According to ancient sources, Abraham's meeting with Melchizedek was not simply to receive refreshments. Melchizedek actually passed on his own priesthood to Abraham. This is the moment when Abraham became the "father" of a "nation of priests."

Wow this is interesting. I never knew all these as most were not stated in the bible. I have often wondered what criteria God used in selecting Abraham. If all these were true then I concede Abraham was greater than we imagine

Ralphmann:
Wow this is interesting. I never knew all these as most were not stated in the bible. I have often wondered what criteria God used in selecting Abraham. If all these were true then I concede Abraham was greater than we imagine

Yes indeed, there is a lot that isn't stated in the bible. Most are preserved and documented in Jewish Ancient writings,sources aπϑ Talmudic Sages .

Abraham was also a pervert who committed incest by marrying his half sister.

Abraham was also an irresponsible husband who who sexually molested his female servants, sired children through them, and then later threw them out of his household without a care for the future welfare of the mother and child.

Abraham was also the most irresponsible father who agreed to sacrifice/kill his own son to show some bogus faith to so some bogus deity.

A man with such obvious character flaws is a man that most civilized people should be ashamed to be associated with, let alone honor.

plaetton:
Abraham was also a pervert who committed incest by marrying his half sister.

Abraham was also an irresponsible husband who who sexually molested his female servants, sired children through them, and then later threw them out of his household without a care for the future welfare of the mother and child.

Abraham was also the most irresponsible father who agreed to sacrifice/kill his own son to show some bogus faith to so some bogus deity.

A man with such obvious character flaws is a man that most civilized people should be ashamed to be associated with, let alone honor.

Hahaha...very well put

plaetton:
Abraham was also a pervert who committed incest by marrying his half sister.

Abraham was also an irresponsible husband who who sexually molested his female servants, sired children through them, and then later threw them out of his household without a care for the future welfare of the mother and child.

Abraham was also the most irresponsible father who agreed to sacrifice/kill his own son to show some bogus faith to so some bogus deity.

A man with such obvious character flaws is a man that most civilized people should be ashamed to be associated with, let alone honor.

Hmmmm........where is all that coming from ?! Ў☺y hav issues with guy ? ‎​​ℓ☺ℓ ! Anyway ...whatever ur grouse is ,G-d use men who flawed,imperfect,horrible past trailing them, controversial aπϑ anything despicable was identifiable with them ! G-d used men who we're willing τ̲̅ȍ effect change in their generation,who knew where τ̲̅ȍ stop aπϑ contemplate if their actions is worth τ̲̅ȍ establish a principle that is sustainable . Men who were willing aπϑ ready τ̲̅ȍ go back, seek redress,make amends with their fellow men aπϑ Creator . They strived τ̲̅ȍ better themselves despite their vulnerability as mere men . Whatever civilization Ў☺y feel Ў☺y represent or try τ̲̅ȍ emulate or makes Ў☺y feel Ў☺y aя̩̥̊ε̲̣̣̣̥ a civil fellow ...for now had its bedrock from men of the scriptures . Western civilisation aπϑ Islamic civilisations owe a lot τ̲̅ȍ this ancient personality my dear friend. Even from my write up I didn't giv you a concept that he was a perfect man .

scosco1:


Hmmmm........where is all that coming from ?! Ў☺y hav issues with guy ? ‎​​ℓ☺ℓ ! Anyway ...whatever ur grouse is ,G-d use men who flawed,imperfect,horrible past trailing them, controversial aπϑ anything despicable was identifiable with them ! G-d used men who we're willing τ̲̅ȍ effect change in their generation,who knew where τ̲̅ȍ stop aπϑ contemplate if their actions is worth τ̲̅ȍ establish a principle that is sustainable . Men who were willing aπϑ ready τ̲̅ȍ go back, seek redress,make amends with their fellow men aπϑ Creator . They strived τ̲̅ȍ better themselves despite their vulnerability as mere men . Whatever civilization Ў☺y feel Ў☺y represent or try τ̲̅ȍ emulate or makes Ў☺y feel Ў☺y α̲̅я̩̥̊ε̲̣̣̣̥ a civil fellow ...for now had its bedrock from men of the scriptures . Western civilisation aπϑ Islamic civilisations owe a lot τ̲̅ȍ this ancient personality my dear friend. Even from my write up I didn't giv you a concept that he was a perfect man .

I don't know what you mean by having grudge against the man Abraham.
You tried to make your case with bible as your support.
I made my own case also with the bible as my support.

It is only an unintelligent person that would make the case that Abraham conributed anything meaniful to humanity, other than siring generations of human beings, something yours and my great ancestors did as well.

Did you emerge from a pond, or from the gene pools of a man like Abraham who also lived thousands of years ago?

A brain is a terrible thing to walk around without.

plaetton:


I don't know what you mean by having grudge against the man Abraham.
You tried to make your case with bible as your support.
I made my own case also with the bible as my support.

It is only an unintelligent person that would make the case that Abraham conributed anything meaniful to humanity, other than siring generations of human beings, something yours and my great ancestors did as well.

Did you emerge from a pond, or from the gene pools of a man like Abraham who also lived thousands of years ago?

A brain is a terrible thing to walk around without.

Na wah o ! ...anyway , ‎​Yε̲̣̣̣̥♠ ..... Ў☺y aя̩̥̊ε̲̣̣̣̥ right sha ! a brain is a terrible thing to walk around without . May those who seem τ̲̅ȍ have none grow some . May those who seem τ̲̅ȍ think that they have already grown brains aπϑ intelligence come τ̲̅ȍ realize they have nothing upstairs.

You are free τ̲̅ȍ make ur case against Abraham sha ....I no get power for debate now .

I just shared a thought and restricted my opinions to positive attributes of the Patriach anyone can emulate .

scosco1:


Na wah o ! ...anyway , ‎​Yε̲̣̣̣̥♠ ..... Ў☺y α̲̅я̩̥̊ε̲̣̣̣̥ right sha ! a brain is a terrible thing to walk around without . May those who seem τ̲̅ȍ have none grow some . May those who seem τ̲̅ȍ think that they have already grown brains aπϑ intelligence come τ̲̅ȍ realize they have nothing upstairs.

You are free τ̲̅ȍ make ur case against Abraham sha ....I no get power for debate now .

I just shared a thought and restricted my opinions to positive attributes of the Patriach anyone can emulate .

And all I did was challenge your opinions.

plaetton:

And all I did was challenge your opinions.

‎​Ơ̴̴̴͡k .
So Ў☺y challenge he wasn't honorable τ̲̅ȍ seek,defend,fight,reurn seized properties for those who couldn't defend themselves ?

Ў☺y challenge it isn't honorable not τ̲̅ȍ seek rewards for those who joined ur. cause even if Ў☺y kept nothing for urselv ?

Ў☺y challenge it isn't hospitable τ̲̅ȍ host strangers who seekd shelter in his tent due τ̲̅ȍ hot desert condition so they culd rest ?

Ў☺y challenge that he wasn't a responsible Leader catering for thoe wit him by been responsible for them ?

Ў☺y challenge he wasn't honorable τ̲̅ȍ challenge religious beliefs aπϑ social systems that wasn't right in his time ?

Ў☺y challenge he wasn't toughened as a desert nomad τ̲̅ȍ adhere τ̲̅ȍ harsh conditions aπϑ situations enabling assertivness from him as a leader ?

I culd go on aπϑ on ...like I still said " he was a rabble rouser,a rebel, an iconolast, an revolutionist who showed no respect τ̲̅ȍ authorities he felt corrupt ....he had his controversies aπϑ more that I did highlit in a subtle way .

I wanted τ̲̅ȍ dwell on his positive sides

scosco1:


‎​Ơ̴̴̴͡k .
So Ў☺y challenge he wasn't honorable τ̲̅ȍ seek,defend,fight,reurn seized properties for those who couldn't defend themselves ?

Ў☺y challenge it isn't honorable not τ̲̅ȍ seek rewards for those who joined ur. cause even if Ў☺y kept nothing for urselv ?

Ў☺y challenge it isn't hospitable τ̲̅ȍ host strangers who seekd shelter in his tent due τ̲̅ȍ hot desert condition so they culd rest ?

Ў☺y challenge that he wasn't a responsible Leader catering for thoe wit him by been responsible for them ?

Ў☺y challenge he wasn't honorable τ̲̅ȍ challenge religious beliefs aπϑ social systems that wasn't right in his time ?

Ў☺y challenge he wasn't toughened as a desert nomad τ̲̅ȍ adhere τ̲̅ȍ harsh conditions aπϑ situations enabling assertivness from him as a leader ?

I culd go on aπϑ on ...like I still said " he was a rabble rouser,a rebel, an iconolast, an revolutionist who showed no respect τ̲̅ȍ authorities he felt corrupt ....he had his controversies aπϑ more that I did highlit in a subtle way .

I wanted τ̲̅ȍ dwell on his positive sides

Who gives a rat's bottom about the positive sides of a man who displayed other monstrous personal qualities?

Everything you listed here, apart from the fact that there is nothing special about them, are figments of your deluded imagination.
There is nothing there that Nelson Mandela, just to mention one African Hero, did not or could not have accomplished.

Pluto, Socrates, Confucious, Pythogoras, and even Genghis Khan contributed a million times more to humanity than your stone-age nomad Abraham.

The man was a schizo. Hearing voices and doing what those voices request are trademark symptoms of schizophrenia.

I hope plaetton's post has changed the mind of the op and anyone who thinks that the biblical Abraham is a hero

Honestly ....not at all ! it hasn't in anyway changed my opinion . I still maintain that I see good in Abraham despite his controversial side which I still noted he had all around him ,but all that did not in anyway deter his resolve to be better ,also as a figure who major religions claim descent from .

Most of these men listed were not even born at d time of Abraham . Despite their achievmnts they all had their personal shortcomings which noone can deny ....
Is it Socrates - who had s thing for young boys,drunkard,reputation for insincerity,hot tempered , couldn't lead a conversation without bein frustrated aπϑ showing resentment, always spoke ironic aπϑ was a worshiper of multiple dieties ...seems confused ( polytheist ).

Gheng khan - yes might have been militarily powerful in his conquest. But he was a barbarian, uncivilized, arrogant,a dictator,raped boys, girls aπϑ women,had a knack for killing even when his opponents surrenderd,highly irresponsible even τ̲̅ȍ his death .

Pyhthagoras - nothing much was known of him. He died hopeless...starved himself τ̲̅ȍ death ! What honor is in such ...life is worth it all !

Let ♍Ƹ̴ just stop for now ...!

Am not a sadist sha ...these men aπϑ the others had their roles ! They came aftr Abraham ! Even if I didint know them personally they we're great men who have influenced till date our present civilisation !

To quote Confuscious who was mentioned he said - " a gentleman points out the honourable qualities of men and does not point out their bad qualities ".

I believe I buy his (Confuscio) ideas and started on that note than degrade myself to a level where I'll talk ill of great men

I see good and positivity ..!

Abraham never existed. He is myth made up by ancient jews for the purpose of justifying their claims on other people's land. Later others like the Muslim prophet saw how much people venerated the myth and started retroactively claiming him in order to lend credibility to their own beliefs.

And he's not even a good person despite being made up, in fact he was a pretty horrible guy. To save his own life, he disclaimed own wife and allowed her to be carried off by a stranger and added to a harem (and probably råped out of her senses). He was willing to kill his own son because the voice in his head told him to. He abandoned his first child and his baby mother to die in the wilderness. And he made grandiose claims of owning huge tracts of land when there were already other people living there. Even the one story with a decent moral about treating visitors with proper hospitality has been converted into a justification for homophobia and mistreatment of gays.

You'd think it would be easy to make a fictional character decent and likable. It just goes to show how messed up the people who made up the stories' morals were.

EvilBrain1:
Abraham never existed. He is myth made up by ancient jews for the purpose of justifying their claims on other people's land. Later others like the Muslim prophet saw how much people venerated the myth and started retroactively claiming him in order to lend credibility to their own beliefs.

And he's not even a good person despite being made up, in fact he was a pretty horrible guy. To save his own life, he disclaimed own wife and allowed her to be carried off by a stranger and added to a harem (and probably råped out of her senses). He was willing to kill his own son because the voice in his head told him to. He abandoned his first child and his baby mother to die in the wilderness. And he made grandiose claims of owning huge tracts of land when there were already other people living there. Even the one story with a decent moral about treating visitors with proper hospitality has been converted into a justification for homophobia and mistreatment of gays.

You'd think it would be easy to make a fictional character decent and likable. It just goes to show how messed up the people who made up the stories' morals were.

My brother you got it all wrong ...wether it was myth or folktale ...they didn't force it on anyone pls ...some of the best leaders from both the Greeks ( Alexander who insisted the Jewish scriptures be translated into multiple language even befor Jsus was born ) ,the jews didn't force anyone they we're forced with swords to....or is it the Romans who had no idea what the Jewish scriptures was all about carried the burden on their head ( constantine ) in order to retain relevance aπϑ influence throughout the known worlds then forced it on people. The legitimate descendants of Abraham (Jews) did not force anyone to . It is their story and History pls .

Abraham is the progenator of Judah and Ishmael if you get wot I mean ! Christians attach to him from a spiritual/religious perpective ! He is like an Ancestor τ̲̅ȍ those who practice true monotheism .

scosco1:
Abraham is the progenator of Judah and Ishmael if you get wot I mean ! Christians attach to him from a spiritual/religious perpective ! He is like an Ancestor τ̲̅ȍ those who practice true monotheism .

No disputes what Christianity attaches to Abraham. That is the way of religion. Religion tend venerate mad men and psychopaths.

The point here is that as an African, you insult us with your onesided view and veneration of your mythical Jewish stone age character, when we Africans have heroes like Marcus Garvey, Nelsonm Mandela, Gain Fawemini, etc that are equally worthy of veneration.

I have said it before that any African who call himself a child of Abraham deserves to be sold for a cup of palm wine.

plaetton:

No disputes what Christianity attaches to Abraham. That is the way of religion. Religion tend venerate mad men and psychopaths.

The point here is that as an African, you insult us with your onesided view and veneration of your mythical Jewish stone age character, when we Africans have heroes like Marcus Garvey, Nelsonm Mandela, Gain Fawemini, etc that are equally worthy of veneration.

I have said it before that any African who call himself a child of Abraham deserves to be sold for a cup of palm wine.

Hmmmm....could you be a little bit civil in ur manner of reference pls, to avoid deragotery terms pls .
Noone insults Africans ...Africans just need to believe in themselves. Africans need to write their own stories and ideals that wouldn't be viewd as primitive,retrogressiv or barbaric . Ideals that transcends past, present aπϑ influence preceeding events .

Africans are africans enemies ...I don't wanna go into that but I think the transatlantic slavetrade is just a tip .
Listing of notable icons is a stepping stone the way Obama is a source of inspirition to the African-americans.
Noone is forcing Jewish/biblical figures on anyone ...like I still am repeating myself ,good attributes of any person in history can be used τ̲̅ȍ motivate . I chose/singled/cieved out attributes that are worth emulating even in our present era .
And its totally ur opinion for whoever feels he is a child of Abraham . Its more like choosing a heritage that you wanna identify with. Don't preach hatred ..but you could have that as ur cause to alter that perception amongst african youths .
You blame that to those who missionized generation of ur fathers

scosco1:


Hmmmm....could you be a little bit civil in ur manner of reference pls, to avoid deragotery terms pls .
Noone insults Africans ...Africans just need to believe in themselves. Africans need to write their own stories and ideals that wouldn't be viewd as primitive,retrogressiv or barbaric . Ideals that transcends past, present aπϑ influence preceeding events .

Africans are africans enemies ...I don't wanna go into that but I think the transatlantic slavetrade is just a tip .
Listing of notable icons is a stepping stone the way Obama is a source of inspirition to the African-americans.
Noone is forcing Jewish/biblical figures on anyone ...like I still am repeating myself ,good attributes of any person in history can be used τ̲̅ȍ motivate . I chose/singled/cieved out attributes that are worth emulating even in our present era .
And its totally ur opinion for whoever feels he is a child of Abraham . Its more like choosing a heritage that you wanna identify with. Don't preach hatred ..but you could have that as ur cause to alter that perception amongst african youths .
You blame that to those who missionized generation of ur fathers

Of course sir, you are free to identify with any heritage. No one disputes that.
Your chosen heritage, however is more suitable for a forum for the semitic people whose heritage you have chosen to identify with.

When you come on an African forum to promote the lies snd myths of your semitic heritage, you should rightly expect to be challenged, repudiated and mocked.
Simple.

That Africa has deeper problems does not mean that we should supplant our heritage with garbage from ancient middle east.

In fact , that is root of Africa's many problems.

The Jewish ppl are not forcing anyone to accept their beliefs ...they don't missionize ! In fact they encourage ppl to be themselves . The best the Jewish teaching could advocate is to create awareness of : knowledge of the true One G-d, not to show disrespect to the Creator which could be in the respect of beauty and life of all creation and nature, desist from murder, respecting the institution of marriage, not to take what rightfully doesn't belong to you by dealing honestly with ur fellow man, not causing needless harm to any living thing, and set up courts of truth and justice or a flourishing civilization . It's those who have no idea of the Jewish scriptural concept that go extreme or otherwise . The Jewish scriptures if properly understood encourage all to be unique rather than conform .

And I believe this section of platform on nairaland is the religions section ...and religion is a universal language or concept with very similar values throughout ? From a religious perspective of the positive attributes of Abraham I tried to highlite wot is wrong or not worth emulating by anyone even those of whom you listed to me pls ? This isn't a secular topic . But how to be good from an Iconic religious figure from the scriptures . I know of nothing that hasn't got two sides positive/negative, good/bad, light/darkness . I still say that Abraham had his bad sides but I chose to restrict my views to his positive attributes .... Which of the men did you know that didn't have a bad side ? Moses, Saul, Joshua, Noah, Adam,David,hezekiah...who among these men where you told were perfect men ?

scosco1:
And I believe this section of platform on nairaland is the religions section ...and religion is a universal language or concept with very similar values throughout ? From a religious perspective of the positive attributes of Abraham I tried to highlite wot is wrong or not worth emulating by anyone even those of whom you listed to me pls ? This isn't a secular topic . But how to be good from an Iconic religious figure from the scriptures . I know of nothing that hasn't got two sides positive/negative, good/bad, light/darkness . I still say that Abraham had his bad sides but I chose to restrict my views to his positive attributes .... Which of the men did you know that didn't have a bad side ? Moses, Saul, Joshua, Noah, Adam,David,hezekiah...who among these men where you told were perfect men ?

Well, for one thing,
If you know the bad sides of a person, but deliberately choose to ignore it and make up and promote what you think are the good sides of that person, then that makes you a very dishonest person worthy of mockery.
It is this blatant act of dishonesty that we are pointing out and attacking here.
Simple.

Again the point being lost on you here is that we are hinting to you, albeit , with strong words, that Africa has enough heroes whose life and deeds are worthy of promotion and emulation than a mythical sociopath from the ancient middle east.

To try promote a figure, whom you also agree, to have unsavory personal qualities, is an insult to all of us.
So, what you are getting is a natural pushback.
So stop the sulking.

One of The essence of the Jewish scriptures is to teach man how to be good and make right choices ...how to overcome those acts of ours that could bring dishonor to ones reputation . I didn't neglect or gave anyone an impression that Abraham was too good. He had his conflicts,controversies and more . I only just highlighted it in a mild manner because I intend to hint on his good sides for now . Because I want to eat a whole chicken doesn't mean i'll swallow it whole with the feathers . And from the topic I used it should guide one on what to expect ...and even more . It's when I tell you Abraham was so good that ppl said there was no one like him that is where I am been dishonest . But where I tell you he was a rebel, anti conformist,fought wars not on playgrounds but on battlegrounds,took decisions and stands that caused his trial by courts in his fatherland becos of his offences against the state,gave you ideas that much of his martial activities were watered down from traditional Judaic precepts ....then any rational mind should know that I touched on some negative or extreme acts that wil be viewed as extreme which I wasn't ready to dwell on because that is not the theme of my write up .Except you took no time to read what I wrote but already had ur opinion about the character of his person or you expected I should hav written in a style which you approve off ...

plaetton:
Again the point being lost on you here is that we are hinting to you, albeit , with strong words, that Africa has enough heroes whose life and deeds are worthy of promotion and emulation than a mythical sociopath from the ancient middle east.

To try promote a figure, whom you also agree, to have unsavory personal qualities, is an insult to all of us.
So, what you are getting is a natural pushback.
So stop the sulking.

. It would be difficult because this is a religious platform as I said . It's when I present it from a secular view point then I can chose from a list of other Africans whom I deem fits such criteria would I then not make reference to any scriptural figure.

scosco1:
One of The essence of the Jewish scriptures is to teach man how to be good and make right choices ...how to overcome those acts of ours that could bring dishonor to ones reputation . I didn't neglect or gave anyone an impression that Abraham was too good. He had his conflicts,controversies and more . I only just highlighted it in a mild manner because I intend to hint on his good sides for now . Because I want to eat a whole chicken doesn't mean i'll swallow it whole with the feathers . And from the topic I used it should guide one on what to expect ...and even more . It's when I tell you Abraham was so good that ppl said there was no one like him that is where I am been dishonest . But where I tell you he was a rebel, anti conformist,fought wars not on playgrounds but on battlegrounds,took decisions and stands that caused his trial by courts in his fatherland becos of his offences against the state,gave you ideas that much of his martial activities were watered down from traditional Judaic precepts ....then any rational mind should know that I touched on some negative or extreme acts that wil be viewed as extreme which I wasn't ready to dwell on because that is not the theme of my write up .Except you took no time to read what I wrote but already had ur opinion about the character of his person or you expected I should hav written in a style which you approve off ...

This is complete bullshyt.

Your imaginations are running wild.

So Abraham is honorable because he faught wars?
When did fighting wars become a mark of honor?

Why do people fight wars?
Is a mercenary soldier a person of honor?
When you fight for loot and spoils, where is the honor?

Pls can you tell us why Abraham faught wars?
What nation was he defending and what nation was he a citizen of ?

I am sorry again to be harsh on you, but the problems with you religiotards is that you do not even read your scriptures with a view of understanding them the same you would read shakespear: To see the actors, the theme, the scene, the plot, the events, the resolution and the lessons.
You do not.
I know for sure that you do not understand the events of Abraham's life as portrayed in your bible.

scosco1:
. It would be difficult because this is a religious platform as I said . It's when I present it from a secular view point then I can chose from a list of other Africans whom I deem fits such criteria would I then not make reference to any scriptural figure.

From a religious point of view then, The Buddha, Confucious, Assurbanipal, Pythogoras , Apollonius of Tyana are much better moral references for Africans than a mythical Abraham.

plaetton:


From a religious point of view then, The Buddha, Confucious, Assurbanipal, Pythogoras , Apollonius of Tyana are much better moral references for Africans than a mythical Abraham.

. Permit to laugh a bit...hahaha ! They are all options as long as it enable one be better . I never shoved this one down anyone please. But don't Africans have their own religion ? Ur options don't have anything in common with Africans . You could come up with better African options who had overwhelming religious influence ! Let's say Usman Dan fodio, ethe emperor of Ethiopia Halle sailel , el-khanemi of borno, Aro priests, ifa priests and other more . These guys you listed had no bearings to Africa to a large extent.

scosco1:
. Permit to laugh a bit...hahaha ! They are all options as long as it enable one be better . I never shoved this one down anyone please. But don't Africans have their own religion ? Ur options don't have anything in common with Africans . You could come up with better African options who had overwhelming religious influence ! Let's say Usman Dan fodio, ethe emperor of Ethiopia Halle sailel , el-khanemi of borno, Aro priests, ifa priests and other more . These guys you listed had no bearings to Africa to a large extent.

Thank you for reminding me that Africans are not short of heroes.

I guess I was trying to tell you that Abraham (most likely a mythical figure) should not even feature as any kind of hero to anyone , except for people of Hebrew or semitic descent.

plaetton:


Thank you for reminding me that Africans are not short of heroes.

I guess I was trying to tell you that Abraham (most likely a mythical figure) should not even feature as any kind of hero to anyone , except for people of Hebrew or semitic descent.

. Much isn't known or documented of such heroes and they weren't propagated as worth full ideals to young Africans who wer searching for religious iconic figures like Abraham . For now , a lot will still stick to this mythical figure as you prefer to refer him . It isn't my bad is it ...? Maybe you could take it up as a cause to research and enlighten us more about our African religious heroes