AmunRaOlodumare:

Ok, I think we are saying the same thing. What you say above is part of what I consider "states" because a state must approve a highway collect tolls for example. Taxes, economic zones, collect tolls are indeed good ways to do it.

For now though, realistically speaking, taxes are off the equation. SEZs , financing and providing political backing for infrastructure projects such as those mentioned and hydro-power dams( set up a company for example to run them like hydro-Quebec).

^^^Everything is important and deserve proper funding. That's the dilemma of every governments or collectivity. Electricity productions (dams), food security (irrigation), education, health, housing, etc as well as maintaining security and peace. A nice dam for electricity production, new schools equipments for our children or new hospitals equipments for diagnostics/treatment is very nice, but so is preventing (intelligence service) and fighting criminal groups such as Boko Haram.

pleep:
Pretty much hits the nail on this head. Africa at the time of colonization was in its dark age, and remained frozen in that state due to artificial borders and colonization.

The only way for africa to break free of this state would be warfare and conquest, through which the stronger ethnic groups would incorporate the weak and grow strong in both national identity and size. That is the natural state of human progress. This, however, would never be allowed to occur due to humanitarian concerns and western interference.

That is the reason i advocate unconventional methods of progres, because so long as africa looks like the map above natural progress will never occur.

no it wasn't Europe was just stronger

Omarbah:

My last comments have addressed that opposition. I even posted a video of Maggy attacking the EU commission. So I do acknowledge the opposition. But what you seem to ignore is the desire for those running the organization to make it stronger and that's what I am focusing on.

Five men pushing for a united Europe doesn't cut it.

Omarbah:
Beyond the economic and political zone(one market , one diplomacy) we should also have one military, at least one Navy and a regional police/paramilitary force to deal with groups such as Boko Haram that operate on multiple countries.

Militaries that are instructed under agreement to defend with each other from a common enemy, like the Canada/US deal or some pre-colonial villages for that matter. As was stated above, the ASF pretty much already does the job.

kingston277:

Five men pushing for a united Europe doesn't cut it.

Yeah right, five men, that's why the EU despite the crisis is still standing. After all the pro European parties still dominate the EU parliament despite the noise. That should give us something to think about.

kingston277:
the ASF pretty much already does the job.

Don't make me repeat myself. I have stated my views on the ASF and talked about how the AU or ECOWAS should be financed.

Omarbah:

Yeah right, five men, that's why the EU despite the crisis is still standing. After all the pro European parties still dominate the EU parliament despite the noise. That should give us something to think about.

Still doesn't excuse the fact that a puny number of pro-union individuals just won't cut it. The party needs to be in agreement first which they are clearly not.

Omarbah:

Don't make me repeat myself. I have stated my views on the ASF and talked about how the AU or ECOWAS should be financed.

I already explained my stance many times earlier and Amun's point still stands.

kingston277:

Still doesn't excuse the fact that a puny number of pro-union [/b]individuals just won't cut it. The party needs to be in agreement first which they are clearly not.

Are you serious? Here is a quote from The Economist , "Even though pro-European mainstream parties have been weakened, they still have a [b]two-thirds majority in the European Parliament." A two-thirds majority after the EU parliament elections of 2014 that saw the biggest rise of Eurosceptics. So I don't know where you get you "puny number of pro-union" thing from.

kingston277:

I already explained my stance many times earlier and Amun's point still stands.

Amun and I are on the same page so I do not know what you are talking about.

TerryCarr:

no it wasn't Europe was just stronger

Exactly! I don't know why people consider European colonization of Africa such a bad thing...they were obviously stronger and more strategic.
They had successfully planted religion into Africa to break our bonds and cage our minds...this was strategy

Colonization itself wasn't such a bad thing, as it's exposes nations and connects them to other nations significantly

Nigerians jst have a bad attitude mostly caused by the still striving religious caged minds

http://www.euractiv.com/development-policy/eu-seals-free-trade-deal-west-af-news-533293

African stupidity is holding Africa back. You would think after 500 years of European colonization Africans would have learned by now but they refuse, it's embarrassing.

Nigeria is Africa's only hope.

ChukwuCantDie:
http://www.euractiv.com/development-policy/eu-seals-free-trade-deal-west-af-news-533293

African stupidity is holding Africa back. You would think after 500 years of European colonization Africans would have learned by now but they refuse, it's embarrassing.

Nigeria is Africa's only hope.

I have also been skeptical of the benefits of this deal. EU will sign trade agreements with other unions which will probably make West African products uncompetitive. Our markets will be vulnerable to theirs. In that case we will be reduced to laborers for foreign companies. I am curious to see the details of the deal.
I wonder why Nigeria signed the deal. Did the leaders do it to get help for the fight against Boko Haram? Because this deal obviously goes against the interests of African business owners. They will now have to find ways around it.
The ports of many Francophone West African countries are managed by Bollore, a French company. With this deal on top of it, they will flood our markets with their products.
When we have leaders that need the recognition of the so called international community to rule, it's not surprising that they do what the EU wants regardless if it is good for Africans or not. When Compaore, Ouattra, Eyadema and Co. need the patronage of France to remain in charge, they are quick to sign those deals.

Omarbah:

I have also been skeptical of the benefits of this deal. EU will sign trade agreements with other unions which will probably make West African products uncompetitive. Our markets will be vulnerable to theirs. In that case we will be reduced to laborers for foreign companies. I am curious to see the details of the deal.
I wonder why Nigeria signed the deal. Did the leaders do it to get help for the fight against Boko Haram? Because this deal obviously goes against the interests of African business owners. They will now have to find ways around it.
The ports of many Francophone West African countries are managed by Bollore, a French company. With this deal on top of it, they will flood our markets with their products.
When we have leaders that need the recognition of the so called international community to rule, it's not surprising that they do what the EU wants regardless if it is good for Africans or not. When Compaore, Ouattra, Eyadema and Co. need the patronage of France to remain in charge, they are quick to sign those deals.

There are no benefits in this deal for Africa, the deal just makes it seem like there is, just like it was apparently a good idea to most Africans to sell 50 Africans to the Europeans for one small bottle of gin during the transatlantic slave days(no i am not exaggerating) but like I have said...African stupidity is to blame for this, what does Ghana, Togo, or any other country in West Africa have to sell to Europe they dont already have or cant already produce? Other than us/Nigeria who are the only nation NOT to have signed the deal most Africans are still extremely foolish and naive, it's not hard to see how we became enslaved and colonized, the sad part is they still haven't learned their lesson.

This is why I said Naija is Africa's only hope.

ChukwuCantDie:

This is why I said Naija is Africa's only hope.

But even Nigeria has signed it and could be threatened by this deal. Nigeria's industries are not competitive enough compared to European ones. It is too early for such a deal. What do you think?

AmunRaOlodumare:
^^^Everything is important and deserve proper funding. That's the dilemma of every governments or collectivity. Electricity productions (dams), food security (irrigation), education, health, housing, etc as well as maintaining security and peace. A nice dam for electricity production, new schools equipments for our children or new hospitals equipments for diagnostics/treatment is very nice, but so is preventing (intelligence service) and fighting criminal groups such as Boko Haram.

While I am at it, I can also add the need to provide funding to start-up companies in Nigeria.

To provide jobs for people and job seekers there's basically 2 ways:
1) An already existing company hire them
2) Starting your own company (and thus usually providing employment for other people as well)

Starting a new company requires money. Whether it is to make tomato sauce, electronics or provide services to people (car repair, restaurant, arts, etc). You need to pay for a space, hire employes and buy equipments or manufacturing equipments if you're into the manufacturing sector, etc. For example, buying equipments from this company (quickly googled 'tomato equipment manufacturer').

http://www.sspindia.com/tomato-processing-plant.html

or other similar companies:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Paint-Manufacturing-Equipment-paint-production-line_996498789.html
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/brick-manufacturing-equipment_523883649.html
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Manufacturing-equipment-Semi-Automatic-Wafer-Mounter_133758770.html

For electronics:
http://www.appliedmaterials.com/
http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2701117


Starting a new company has a cost, and great reward of course, and acquiring funding from personal saving to families and friends to banks and government initiative is essential. In fact, it's what makes America great. The capacity to provide funding, through various means, to new start up companies in all sectors from manufacturing to agro-processing to agriculture to high tech research and production (R& D).

Omarbah:

But even Nigeria has signed it and could be threatened by this deal. Nigeria's industries are not competitive enough compared to European ones. It is too early for such a deal. What do you think?

http://www.cnbcafrica.com/news/western-africa/2014/04/01/nigeria-rejects-eu-partnership/

This article is a few months old but since then the ECOWAS fools decided to sign the deal led by that Ghanaian idiot, Mahama. We are the only ones with a brain it seems which is why I said we are Africa's only hope.

ChukwuCantDie:
http://www.cnbcafrica.com/news/western-africa/2014/04/01/nigeria-rejects-eu-partnership/

This article is a few months old but since then the ECOWAS fools decided to sign the deal led by that Ghanaian idiot, Mahama. We are the only ones with a brain it seems which is why I said we are Africa's only hope.

you are the only ones with the population size and the resources to afford saying NO to such agreements. In the case of Ghana and Cote d'Ivoire that exports agricultural products, the Europeans could threaten them with high import prices on their market if they don't sign the deal.
The countries within UEMOA in French West Africa will sign it. Not only do they have a currency tied to the Euro with France providing a guarantee( half of their exports proceed end up in the Bank of France, supposedly to stabilize the CFA currency) but also because their political elite is closely tied to that France.
It seems like that Nigeria did sign it after all. Just found an article on it.
http://allafrica.com/stories/201407221229.html

How will you manage to deal with European competition?

The reason is that we were deprived of our chance to progress standing on our own two feet through colonization (but that is in the past now).

Today there is little to nothing keeping us from developing on our own while maintaining our languages. I think everyone's too busy attempting to aquire material wealth. This is a huge problem in Nigeria especially - parents exclusively teaching their children Western values and ways of speech, instead of passing on the rich African heritage we posess.

Our leaders need to stop sucking up to the white man and remove all multinational corporations from our borders. We won't progress as long as our wealth is stolen by these greedy leeches. We need to build our own expertise and stop relying on people that want to drag us down. Abeg, make una understand

macof:

Exactly! I don't know why people consider European colonization of Africa such a bad thing...they were obviously stronger and more strategic.
They had successfully planted religion into Africa to break our bonds and cage our minds...this was strategy

Colonization itself wasn't such a bad thing, as it's exposes nations and connects them to other nations significantly

Nigerians jst have a bad attitude mostly caused by the still striving religious caged minds

it's a double edged sword. Colonization made Africans hate themselves. and it made groups that don't like each other one "nation"

Omarbah:

you are the only ones with the population size and the resources to afford saying NO to such agreements. In the case of Ghana and Cote d'Ivoire that exports agricultural products, the Europeans could threaten them with high import prices on their market if they don't sign the deal.
The countries within UEMOA in French West Africa will sign it. Not only do they have a currency tied to the Euro with France providing a guarantee( half of their exports proceed end up in the Bank of France, supposedly to stabilize the CFA currency) but also because their political elite is closely tied to that France.
It seems like that Nigeria did sign it after all. Just found an article on it.
http://allafrica.com/stories/201407221229.html

How will you manage to deal with European competition?

I have already told you THREE TIMES already Nigeria has and will NOT sign themselves into slavery with his deal, we are not Ghanaian or Cameroonian, we dont answer to white people.

http://www.vanguardngr.com/2014/10/epa-enslavement-partnership-agreement/

ChukwuCantDie:
I have already told you THREE TIMES already Nigeria has and will NOT sign themselves into slavery with his deal, we are not Ghanaian or Cameroonian, we dont answer to white people.

http://www.vanguardngr.com/2014/10/epa-enslavement-partnership-agreement/

No need to get exited, businessmen from Cameroon like Francis Nana Djomou have expressed their concerns over the deal. If Nigeria has not signed it, then it's a good thing and I am glad.

When countries depend on exporting agricultural products, it is easy to make them sign these deals. All the EU has to do is threaten them with high imports duties for their products.

Omarbah:

Are you serious? Here is a quote from The Economist , "Even though pro-European mainstream parties have been weakened, they still have a two-thirds majority in the European Parliament." A two-thirds majority after the EU parliament elections of 2014 that saw the biggest rise of Eurosceptics. So I don't know where you get you "puny number of pro-union" thing from.

Hmm. And to which party are these Euroskeptics affiliated?

Omarbah:

Amun and I are on the same page so I do not know what you are talking about.

I don't recall Amun mentioning anything about unionizing politically. Only utilizing existing organizations like AU and ASF.
Even back in the days, such a concept existed among the kingdoms but didn't commence when the foreigners invaded.

kingston277:

Hmm. And to which party are these Euroskeptics affiliated?

that's besides the point. You said a "puny number of pro-union individuals just won't cut it", well my friend, Pro Europeans are 2/3 of the EU parliament. It seems like you do not much of the EU. Here is an article about the last EU elections, please read it, you will find answers to your question.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2014/05/european-elections-0

kingston277:

I don't recall Amun mentioning anything about unionizing politically. Only utilizing existing organizations like AU and ASF.
Even back in the days, such a concept existed among the kingdoms but didn't commence when the foreigners invaded.

Amun's intervention pertained to the military force , he did not state his position on political unity.

maxit2:
IN SHORT:
Humans are like dogs. Different breeds with different qualities.

Some with a lot of muscle but little brain.
Some with brains but little muscle.

Let's not force it people. BLACK race(NOT just AFRICANS) lacks the brains.

By brain, i don't mean the ability to cram formulas or graduate as 1st class in Harvard(This is just a result of hardwork)

A "brainaic" is one who can think outside the BOX/textbooks and see things you'd never see in books.
We just do not belong to that line of human specie.

We have the muscle, the will power to do things. We are survivors. But the brains we just don't have.

And you had the audacity to call ChukwuCantDie "eegnorant" (it's ignorant, you fool) ? You are one stupid person, I'll give you that. Africans built P.Y.R.A.M.I.D.S millenia before Europeans even had their alphabet(s) , so there's nothing wrong with our brains.

One major problem is "tribalism" (I don't like the word "tribe" though) . People who really didn't identify with each other, nor spoke the same language, are now forced to call themselves fellow countrymen. That causes problems.

Then there's the language issue, there are so many different languages spoken in Africa, and sometimes, they're not mutually intelligible. This leads to problems in the education sector when people from different groups go to the same educational institutions. That being said, it's important to mention that there has never been a state, who rose into greatness while at the same time, speaking/teaching in a language that wasn't their own (So using English/French/Portuguese/Arabic instead of our own languages is NOT a good solution.)

We also have to remember the fact that certain nations have not been "bothered" since they regained their freedom. South Korea wasn't colonized by the US after the 2nd World War. Japan was occupied for a short while, but it didn't hamper their economical development significantly.
We can't forget that OUR continent, is the RICHEST continent on the planet, therefore, there's absolutely NO WAY that our former enslavers & colonizers were just going to give it up. Not gonna happen. Who do you think funds these civil wars? We all know we're dirt poor, so how is it, that we're always able to procure an Ak-47, RPG, Machine-Guns, Artillery Pieces, Ammo etc? Same thing goes for our "corrupt" leaders. I'm not defending them, but they are being CORRUPTED, it's not as if they're inherently corrupt. Somebody has to offer a "bribe" for there to be a corrupt leader on the other end, remember?

Our biggest mistake is not putting "tribal issues" aside, and realize that when we drop the ball, it affects ALL OF US, not just Zulu's/Igbo's/Hausa's etc.. Foreign predators do not give a flying fvck about which ethnic group we belong to. To them, we're all Africans, and being that we're Africans, it means that we stand in their way of getting to our resources. That's why they won't HESITATE playing us against each other for their own benefit. I'm not saying that we should forget our individual cultures, customs & languages, but we MUST unite as AFRICANS, and act accordingly. If we do not act in the best interests as Africans, we're doomed to be a group of consumers instead of PRODUCERS.

reedonne:

And western africa is more stable than east and central africa.

how?

i made a thread about this a long time ago, with my cameroonpride moniker, our problems :

multi-Ethnic and multi religious countries not nations and democracy which is a sham and diversion created by the west, ask the west why they didn't use democratic process to join the EU? (which in this case would b a referendum) ? should i remind people here that there are millions against the EU in the west? and that countries outside the EU recovered faster from the last economic crisis?

look how we are struggling to reach a consensus, and this is the same pattern in our countries aka colonial cages ....i believe in assimilation in we must remain one if people don't want to assimilate in mainstream culture or larger group then we should redraw the map, you can not win a game where you don't know the rules, the puppet states had a purpose, that's why the imperialists don't hesitate to use the force to maintain them.

again mainstream culture is very important..mono ethnic country or countries with one ethnic group being over 70

China
Botswana
Arab countries
france
germany
UK
EG
Russia
etc
i ask una to lump germans, french and brits together and tell me what happens, furthermore the way the west used to strenghten their unity is the same way Africans should, we are not inventing hot water here, only through forced assimilation, wars, dictatorship etc we can reach that level of togetherness, you boasted about lingala, but you forgot that it was imposed by Mobutu, today the congolese cherish that,but forogt the protests etc ....so again get rid of Democracy, look how elections are captivating the minds of Nigerians while there are more pressing issues, and the election is only next year yet they are all on stand by

ChukwuCantDie:
I have already told you THREE TIMES already Nigeria has and will NOT sign themselves into slavery with his deal, we are not Ghanaian or Cameroonian, we dont answer to white people.

http://www.vanguardngr.com/2014/10/epa-enslavement-partnership-agreement/

this loudmouthed indivduals......was it not your army that helped ouattara to oust an elected president ? following the orders of the french president? :Nigeria provided vehicles, amo. and rifles

your same army was in mali following the orders of french president
your same country voted for to oust Ghaddafi following the orders of Nato.

should i remind you about the IMF and world bank deals? talk something else...

CAMNEWTON4PRES:


this loudmouthed indivduals......was it not your army that helped ouattara to oust an elected president ? following the orders of the french president? :Nigeria provided vehicles, amo. and rifles

your same army was in mali following the orders of french president
your same country voted for to oust Ghaddafi following the orders of Nato.

should i remind you about the IMF and world bank deals? talk something else...

I know right and how many times has Goodluck complained about not gaining help from the U.S. in his fight against boko haram.
This attitude won't never lead us to a better future. No matter how we see each other, the rest of world treats us the same.
The question still remains, has Nigeria signed the document or not? It's still isn't clear.

CAMNEWTON4PRES:


this loudmouthed indivduals......was it not your army that helped ouattara to oust an elected president ? following the orders of the french president? :Nigeria provided vehicles, amo. and rifles

your same army was in mali following the orders of french president
your same country voted for to oust Ghaddafi following the orders of Nato.

should i remind you about the IMF and world bank deals? talk something else...

We refused to answer orders to the french in Mali so we left. Where was Cameroon? Plus I have never said that I like the way GEJ does things but I have no choice, it is either him or Buhari.

CAMNEWTON4PRES:
how?

West africa countries have a defined borders and there is little hostility among W/Africa countries.
While most central africa countries have weak goverment.
And eastern Africa countries are hostile.

reedonne:

West africa countries have a defined borders and there is little hostility among W/Africa countries.
While most central africa countries have weak goverment.
And eastern Africa countries are hostile.

your post doesn't make sense...what hostility exists between central African govts?


weak as in ?


hostility in WA:

Gambia vs Senegal
Burkina Vs Ivory coast
Sierra leone Vs Liberia
Ghana vs Nigeria

weak Govt

Gambia
Guinea bisau
Mali
Niger

confused people
Mauritani
.........
all countries have defined borders, so i really don't understand what you meant by that either way here are the central African countries:

Cameroon
Gabon
Angola
Congo
RDCONGO
CHAD
Equatorial Guinea
CAR

what hostility exits between those countries? except for CAR each country are stable while west Africa is the home of coup d'etat and civil wars ..my nigga i think you were drunk when you typed that comment and your explanation doesn't hold water

CAMNEWTON4PRES:


your post doesn't make sense...what hostility exists between central African govts?


weak as in ?


hostility in WA:

Gambia vs Senegal
Burkina Vs Ivory coast
Sierra leone Vs Liberia
Ghana vs Nigeria

weak Govt

Gambia
Guinea bisau
Mali
Niger

confused people
Mauritani
.........
all countries have defined borders, so i really don't understand what you meant by that either way here are the central African countries:

Cameroon
Gabon
Angola
Congo
RDCONGO
CHAD
Equatorial Guinea
CAR

what hostility exits between those countries? except for CAR each country are stable while west Africa is the home of coup d'etat and civil wars ..my nigga i think you were drunk when you typed that comment and your explanation doesn't hold water

The hostility you mentioned in West Africa doesn't truly exist. The Nigeria vs. Ghana one is more of a joke, I have no hostility towards Ghanaians. I always figured the Senegalese and Gambians did not see each other as different.....especially since they have the exact same ethnic groups, why would they? They speak the same languages.

Also, I have never heard of the Burkina vs. Cote D'Ivoire one before.

I think your mission here is to give the false impression that Central Africa is doing better than West. Also, I don't consider Chad a true Central African nation, it's a hybrid of West African and Central African culture (mainly West African)

Fulaman198:


The hostility you mentioned in West Africa doesn't truly exist. The Nigeria vs. Ghana one is more of a joke, I have no hostility towards Ghanaians. I always figured the Senegalese and Gambians did not see each other as different.....especially since they have the exact same ethnic groups, why would they? They speak the same languages.

Also, I have never heard of the Burkina vs. Cote D'Ivoire one before.

I think your mission here is to give the false impression that Central Africa is doing better than West. Also, I don't consider Chad a true Central African nation, it's a hybrid of West African and Central African culture (mainly West African)

my mission? why would i do that, here is a thread talking about African renaissance and your huys are posting comments that don't make sense, tht guy first with WA being better and that chukwu about white orders blah blah....i was only setting the record straight .

this is not whether you heard or not:

many Ivorians know that burkina faso through blaise compaore played a role in their civil war and the ousting of their president
ghana vs Nigeria whether it is a joke or not the fact is the hostility exists, in fact i have never heard a Nigerian saying anything good about ghanaian(in real life)

as for senegal Gambia...we are not talking about ethnicity here the fact are there...Gambia president is arming rebelion in senegal(casamnce0 and Wade tired to oust him too through several rebllion..i hope you know we are talking about states and Govt

i think i showed everything ..you can make your own conclusions...btw you can take chad, it even makes Central Africa more stable

Civil wars in Africa:

Sierra Leone(WA)
Nigeria(WA)
Liberia(WA)
Ivory COAST(WA)
Chad(WA))
RDCONGO(CA)
GUINEA bISAU(CA)
coup d'etat
Mali(WA)
Guinea C (WA)
Burkina(WA)
Nigeria(WA, multiple)
chad(WA)
CAR(CA)
Congo(CA)
IVORY COAST(WA)
GUINEA BISAU(WA)
GAMBIA(WA)
Ghana(WA)

as we can see WA is far from being better than CA...no matter how one tries to put it..next time tell your dawgs to make sense, i really don't get how in this information age someone can say WA is more stable than CA..does he live on mars?

ChukwuCantDie:
We refused to answer orders to the french in Mali so we left. Where was Cameroon? Plus I have never said that I like the way GEJ does things but I have no choice, it is either him or Buhari.

where was Cameroon? lmao it shows you that we are the armed arm of france in Africa, Nigeria is just like chad, you both are french proxies. the same way chad is being used on nigeria and cameroon with boko harma,,,,one can say Nigeria is reaping what they sow or am missing something?