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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Islam for Muslims / They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) (10446 Views)
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Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by AlBaqir(m): 3:34pm On Nov 02, 2014 |
sino: I can only wonder how you derive your tafsir of " those who your right hand possess" in the context of legal marriage. No sunni muffassir ever make such tafsir. In fact I laughed when I saw what sunni ulama wrote on the ayah. username gave you a citation of ibn kathir. You seem not interested that's why I do not want to cite other references. May Allah be our sole guide not our desires. In share Allah soon I planned to open a thread on Islamic view on slave and this issue will also be treated as well. |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by sino(m): 1:33pm On Nov 04, 2014 |
AlBaqir: Thank you for the responses brother, you have made some very good points, and I believe we may agree at the end of this communication… Firstly, I understand your point, and really, looking at the hadith from my own perspective, made me make those observations, I do not have shia books, and only take what I see posted online from different forums. On the contrary, if not forbidden to all, it suggests forbidden to the questioner, and that is a point I can work with…but again, I can go with makrooh… AlBaqir: Indeed, I agree, our justification is always with the shariah, the problem as I see it is how we are establishing the halal, mubah, makrooh and haram in regards to mut’ah. AlBaqir: Well, I never checked the grading of the hadith, and still haven’t… And my premise is that Quran 4:24 is not about mut’ah, I have proof, and will subsequently post them AlBaqir: All my life being a Muslim, I have come to appreciate the shariah, as I grow and learn new things about the deen, I always realize that all what Allah (SWT) enjoined us to partake in are always for the good of the individual and the society at large. The flexibility of the Islamic law has made some room for controversial issues, that is why some acts are not mandatory, rather permissible, then it becomes subjective, no need for losing sleep over, polygamy for instance, a woman is given the liberty to accept or reject during the marriage contract, not to mention the responsibilities of the man to the woman and vice versa set by Allah (SWT), each partner is taken care of, whether written or not. Mut’ah does not give room for that, it is lopsided and the problems it would create in the society wouldn’t be little. AlBaqir: Now those mujtahids are my kind of peeps can you now see why I said as a father, I can’t imagine myself accepting such for my daughters? Limiting to widows and divorcee makes sense to some extent, but the flaws cannot be ignored or overlooked. AlBaqir: If they are of age, why not allow them do a proper nikkah however small, and set the conditions between them? What makes a proper nikkah other than proposal and acceptance, guardian’s consent, witnesses and mahr? Don’t get me wrong, the reason above makes sense, but I think a small nikkah is better of, at least, that is what is praised in the Qur’an and Hadiths… Yes indeed, the prophet (SAW) had nikkah which were for political, socio-economic and other reasons, some were specific for the Prophet (SAW) and all were permanent Nikkah…not to mention that are hadiths that encourages us to marry for all what the Qur'an enjoins...Mut'ah seems to be only for one reason, enjoyment of s.ex |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by sino(m): 1:39pm On Nov 04, 2014 |
AlBaqir: 1. Is the chain I presented not the true one? Or what is the basis of the chain being weak? 2. This would not be, if we understand that Qur'an 4:24 is not about mut'ah right? The reason for the revelation was not said to be about mut’ah, and even reading the previous and the subsequent verse, defeats the opinion that it is in regards to mut’ah. 3. Any references in the kutubu sitah? Another angle we can look at this, is that in sunni books, the hadith I quoted is sahih, with corroboration from other sources, which gives more credibility to the hadith, hence, this hadith is probably false (from what I read in tafsir tabari, it was not a statement from Ali (ra), rather from another person relating what he heard), or there is a mistake, for one would have thought if Ali (ra) had said such, then he wouldn't hesitate to revert it back, to establish the sunnah when he became the caliph. AlBaqir:1. Oh sorry, I got it online and never bothered to check…the chapter is prohibition of Nikkah mut’ah, under Book of Nikkah, hadith number 1963 2. Albany graded it hasan 3. I can come up with several possibilities, in regards to this, one is that, due to what happened, the prevalence of people forgetting the injuction of the Prophet (SAW) and abusing mut'ah, Umar (ra), declared it haram again, stating it categorically, not to mention the need to be stern about it, if some sahabas who didn’t know about the ruling, were arguing in favor of it. 4. We can not dismiss the hadith, for there are sahih hadiths stating the forbiddance of mut’ah was by the Prophet (SAW) (these hadiths were graded sahih in sunni books), in fact reading the hadith further, Umar (ra) challenged people to bring 4 witnesses to counter his claim, but none showed. My question is, why would Umar want to forbid mut’ah when it was practiced during the early part of Islam, if there was no strong backing from the Prophet (SAW)? To prove what exactly? And again, Umar (ra) was not the last caliph, again, why didn't Uthman (ra) or even Ali (ra) revert the ruling, if they find it wrong? Or is there such narrations? Well, the Imams might be mistaken. Although, Tabari, reported the hadith of forbiddance at khaybar in his tafsir, they are not above mistakes, it doesn’t change anything. AlBaqir: You have always maintained that majority doesn’t equate truth, nearly all sunni muffassir? I find it rather doubtful cos from what I have read so far, most tafsir reports the two opinions (which is presented later), and maintain that mut’ah is haram based on sahih hadith. And having the same root word does not equate referring to the same thing, for example, I can say "innallazeena farraqoo deenahum wa kaanoo shiya'a" (6:159) means Allah is talking about shias, and hence people should be weary of them. Thus, I present to you the opinion that states Qur’an 4:24 is not in regards to mut’ah The following are from tafsir tabari, I tend to use it mostly due to easy access and readability… القول في تأويل قوله : { فَمَا اسْتَمْتَعْتُمْ بِهِ مِنْهُنَّ فَآتُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ فَرِيضَةً } قال أبو جعفر: اختلف أهل التأويل في تأويل قوله:"فما استمتعتم به منهن". فقال بعضهم: معناه: فما نكحتم منهن فجامعتموهن - يعني: من النساء ="فآتوهن أجورهن فريضة" يعني: صدقاتهن، فريضة معلومة. (1) In the interpretation of Allah’s (SWT) statement: { فَمَا اسْتَمْتَعْتُمْ بِهِ مِنْهُنَّ فَآتُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ فَرِيضَةً } Abu Jafar said:the people tafseer differ in the translation of the statement, some of them said the meaning of the statement is Nikkah (permanent marriage), i.e from the women, “give them their obligatory reward i.e their sadak (dowry), an obligation that is known. *ذكر من قال ذلك: 9028 - حدثني المثنى قال، حدثنا عبد الله بن صالح قال، حدثني معاوية بن صالح، عن علي بن أبي طلحة، عن ابن عباس قوله:"فما استمتعتم به منهن فآتوهن أجورَهن فريضة"، يقول: إذا تزوج الرجل منكم المرأة، ثم نكحها مرة واحدة، فقد وجب صَداقها كلُّه = و"الاستمتاع" هو النكاح، وهو قوله ![]() 9029 - حدثنا الحسن بن يحيى قال، أخبرنا عبد الرزاق قال، أخبرنا معمر، عن الحسن في قوله:"فما استمتعتم به منهن"، قال: هو النكاح. 9030 - حدثني المثنى قال، حدثنا أبو حذيفة قال، حدثنا شبل، عن ابن أبي نجيح، عن مجاهد:"فما استمتعتم به منهن"، النكاح. 9031 - حدثنا القاسم قال، حدثنا الحسين قال، حدثني حجاج، عن ابن جريج، عن مجاهد قوله:"فما استمتعتم به منهن"، قال: النكاحَ أراد. 9032 - حدثني يونس قال، أخبرنا ابن وهب قال، قال ابن زيد في قوله:"فما استمتعتم به منهن فآتوهن أجورهن فريضة" الآية، قال: هذا النكاح، وما في القرآن إلا نكاحٌ. إذا أخذتَها واستمتعت بها، فأعطها أجرَها الصداقَ. فإن وضعت لك منه شيئًا، فهو لك سائغ. فرض الله عليها العدة، وفرض لها الميراث. قال: والاستمتاع هو النكاح ههنا، إذا دخل بها. The above in summary states that istamt’atu refers to nikkah, and the narrations, are from those who uphold such translation. وقال آخرون: بل معنى ذلك: فما تمتَّعتم به منهن بأجرٍ تمتُّعَ اللذة، لا بنكاح مطلق على وجه النكاح الذي يكون بولِيٍّ وشهود ومهر. While some said, on the contrary, the statement refers to Mut’ah, it does not refer to Nikkah with the consent of the guardian, witnesses and the dowry…Narrations in regards to those that uphold this definition were also presented…. قال أبو جعفر: وأولى التأويلين في ذلك بالصواب، تأويل من تأوَّله: فما نكحتموه منهن فجامعتموه، فآتوهن أجورهن = لقيام الحجة بتحريم الله متعة النساء على غير وجه النكاح الصحيح أو الملك الصحيح على لسان رسوله صلى الله عليه وسلم. Abu Jafar then said: the first of the two translations is most accurate, based on the evidence that Allah (SWT) prohibited Mut’ah through the prohibition given by the statement of the Messenger (SAW) in regards to mut’ah. وأما ما روي عن أبيّ بن كعب وابن عباس من قراءتهما ![]() Abu Jafar the further added, “and what was related by Abba ibn K’ab, and Ibn Abbas, in their recitation with addition of “for a fixed time”, this is contrary to what is present in the Qur’an of the Muslims, and it is not appropriate for anyone to add into Allah’s book a thing which has no convincing report which there can be no excuse in going against. NB: The English translations are mine, there may be some errors, and I didn’t translate the hadiths. Indeed, looking at this ayah with the perspective that I have presented, it wouldn’t be out of place to state categorically that mut’ah was not prescribed by Allah (SWT), and it wouldn’t be out of place also to understand that it was prohibited by the Prophet (SAW), and further enforced by Umar (ra) when people revert back to it. |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by sino(m): 2:49pm On Nov 04, 2014 |
AlBaqir:There is no other way, than learning from tafsir books, from reputable scholars, the issue is the way in which people like usermane, try to create false meaning to tafsirs, i had an encounter with him regards to tafsir ibn kathir, and he was plain deceitful... Now on the issue of "those who your right hand possess", one thing to first understand is that, slaves were around during the time of the Prophet, it wasn't instituted by Islam, but with Islam, slavery was to be eradicated in a gradual process....since you would be writing about the view of slavery in Islam, i wouldn't belabor you with my explanations... Islam gave permission to marry slaves, (Q4:3), Qur'an 4 vs 24 states again "Thus hath Allah ordained (prohibitions) against you: except for these all others are lawful provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property desiring chastity not lust." As a master of a slave you want to marry, who do you go for permission to marry her? do you also know that a slave can ask for his or her freedom and the mahr of a slave is her freedom? and also when she is pregnant, and her master dies, she and her baby are free and not slaves? in the tafsir of the verse, tabari states; . فأما السِّفاح، فإن الله تبارك وتعالى حرّمه من جميعهن، فلم يحلّه من حُرّة ولا أمة، ولا مسلمة، ولا كافرةٍ مشركة.وأما الأمة التي لها زوج، فإنها لا تحلّ لمالكها إلا بعد طلاق زوجها إياها، أو وفاته وانقضاء عدتها منه. "...and in regards to zina, Allah (SWT) prohibits it on all, it is not permissible on a free woman, or a slave woman, nor on a muslim woman, or a disbelieving or a pagan woman. And for the slave woman who has a husband, she is not halal for her master, except her husband divorces her, or the husband dies and the days of iddah has elapsed. I can't read the above and then believe Islam allows what those who hate Islam wants me to believe. |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by LagosShia: 3:06pm On Nov 04, 2014 |
i really dont understand what some people are pulling their hair over and trying to "prove", when their very books and scholars admit that the practice was done in the time of the Prophet (s) with his approval. when you think it was later discontinued by the Prophet (sa) or by Umar, that is all details. trying to "shame" the Shia because of mut'ah or trying to demonize the act is very silly because this is something that the Prophet (s) had approved. are you implying he (sa) approved of something "bad" and only to realize later and discontinue it? astaghfirullah!!! like polygamy, mut'ah has its advantages, and also rules and conditions, that if properly implemented can solve many societal ills. Wallahi, it is waste of time engaging such people to reason. 2 Likes |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by Empiree: 6:32pm On Nov 04, 2014 |
^^^I think LagosShia is right. I still believe that 'Malika yamin' is different from full house wife or conventional marriage. It is there for a purpose. But I only agreed with sino for argument sake in terms of malikyamin. My question to LagosShia is what is correlation btw Mu'tah and malika yamin?. Malikayamin is halal. The problem I had on this issue it why would the Sunni ulama screaming and condemning Mu'tah outright without any form of explanation?. They talk as if it was never allowed at some point. Thanks to sino and lanre. They dogged ahadith from Sunni text to prove it was halal at some point. This differ from the way average Sunni scholars portray it. And they never talked about misyar practices in SA/ME. I read about misyar from horses' mouth. Those women are not happy. However, a Sunni scholar explains Malika Yamin. From his explanation, it shows that Malikaymamin is protection of certain women and it's temp, she offers herself freely and it's halal. Hope I have a little chance later and post either his video or explain what he said. From Quran, it seems that Malika Yamin is a different function conventional marriage. Wallahu Alam. |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by usermane(m): 6:43pm On Nov 04, 2014 |
Tell it to the birds, sino. Concentrate on the topic and forget usermane. |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by Empiree: 7:06pm On Nov 04, 2014 |
usermane: ![]() |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by LagosShia: 8:21pm On Nov 04, 2014 |
Empiree: Mulkul yamin's correlation to mut'ah is the same of it to permanent marriage. mulkul yamin are female captives during war, especially of those whose husbands were fighters and got slain. they can be engaged in temporary marriage or permanent marriage if they offer themselves. and there is no difference in status between a wife whose marriage resulted through capture, and a wife you marry in times of peace. Mariah al-Qibtiyyah (RA) or Safiyyah (RA) were no less mothers of the believers than Aisha was, for instance. the below verse is the Verse of Mut'ah which also touch on mulkul yamin. however, mulkul yamin (as we know of the mothers of the believers) can result in permanent marriage. Holy Qur'an 4:24 "And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess. [This is] the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, [provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse. So for whatever you enjoy [of marriage] (i.e. mut'ah) from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise." |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by MrOlai: 8:48pm On Nov 04, 2014 |
@sino. Thanks so much for ur fantastic contributions. May Allah(SWT) in His infinite mercy bless u in manifold. May Allah(SWT) protect, guide & assist u in all ur endeavours. May Allah(SWT) never let u astray, ur kids and generations dat'll come after u. E ko ni mo apada si aburu Insha Allah (Amin). I'm highly impressed! You've really done justice to d topic. For Albaqir & others dat are spreading evils on d land, well, Allah(SWT) knows how to judge them! My prayer for them is Allah's guidance b4 it's too late! |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by Empiree: 9:52pm On Nov 04, 2014 |
MrOlai:They are not spreading evil. This is a space for learning. My understanding of their argument is Shia believe Mut'ah is still active. And by definition, Albair define Mut'ah.... The Arabic dictionaries define mut'a as enjoyment, pleasure, delight.' The root form, m-t-,' signifies, 'to carry away, to take away.' A 'marriage of mut'a' is a marriage which the contract stipulates will last for a fixed period of time. I dont think both Albaqir and lagoshia claimed unlawful intercourse is allowed. Read LagosShia's quote above. My concern here is if Mut'ah is merely enjoyment, that's not necessarily forbidden. One may enjoy from lawful and unlawful relationship. From all indications from ahadith above, sino and lanrexlan insist mut'ah (whatever it means to them) is banned. But Shia say is it not. Thats why I asked if Mut'ah corresponds with Malika Yamin. From YouTube vidoes I watched, mostly from Sunni perceptive, they believe Malika Yamin (i:e condition warranting it no longer exist). That condition is what Lagosshia ...quote mulkul yamin are female captives during war, especially of those whose husbands were fighters and got slain. Another lecture I listened to indicates that the condition is not just(only) about women whose husband are slained. He believes Malika Yamin still exist. He said it is no longer practiced by Muslim majority is the reason we now have lots of women unmarried or single mothers etc. He gave variety of reasons beyond women whose husband are killed. Basically he went beyond tafsir of old. So this is not about anyone spreading evil. We learning here. At least ahadith talk about Mut'ah. Whether it's now forbidden or not is not my concern at the moment. How about MISYAR, did hadith talk about it?. So far no one gave definition of that. And it's practiced in Arab world. Enough with Mut'ah this Mut'ah that. |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by sino(m): 10:09am On Nov 05, 2014 |
MrOlai:Alhamdulilah, and Amin to your prayers, as I wish you the same. please bear in mind that when people are convinced that they are on the truth, it becomes their reality, and that is what they would preach. Unless they know the truth and are just plain deceitful, it is better we address people based on what they present, and leave the rest to Allah. Our prayers, as you have made, should be that Allah (swt) continues to guide us to the truth, and make us accept it and act on it. Jazakumullahu khayran brother. |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by sino(m): 10:14am On Nov 05, 2014 |
Empiree: ![]() |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by Empiree: 12:25pm On Nov 05, 2014 |
sino:CREEPY!. I guess. ![]() 1 Like |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by AlBaqir(m): 3:56pm On Nov 05, 2014 |
sino: @sino, Dear brother, salam alaykum. I really enjoyed your line of argument and sincerity. In fact, so far you and lanrexlan have displayed the Quranic injunction of "wisdom, good manners and exhortation" which Quran enjoyed in dialogue. May Allah give us His taofeek to understand more. So far, I think we've been able to narrow down our dialogue to three areas whereas certain level of agreement and understanding have been reached in other areas. The remaining three areas are as follow: 1. Sunni Tafsir of ayah 24 of sura Nisa; with Sunni Ulama's view. i. Exposition of the previous and later ayah to get the explicit of verse 24. 2. The hadith of Imam Ali (as) about 'prohibition of mut'a at khaybar'. 3. Sermon of Umar vs hadith that proved his prohibition simply meant ref to prophet's prohibition. **************** 1. Tafsir of Q.4 vs 24 The following are sunni tafsir that affirmed that the above ayah was revealed pertaining to Mut'a leaving aside their various arguments that it was later forbidden: *Tafsir kashaf, vol. 1 p. 20 commentary of sura Nisa * Tafsir Ibn kathir, vol. 1 p.84 * Tafsir Tabari part 5 pg. 9 * Tafsir Qurtubi, vol. 5 p. 60 * Tafsir Khazan, vol. 1 p. 63 * Tafsir Kabir, Fakhr deen Razi, vol 3 p. 95 * Tafsir Durr al-Manthur, vol. 2 p. 140 * Tafsir Ahkam al-Quran, vol. 2 p. 45 * Tafsir Haqqani, vol. 2 p. 3 * Tafsir al-Thalabi, vol. 1 p. 363 * Al-Majmoo, by Imam Nawawi, vol. 16 p. 253 Following are few quotes from the above named Tafsir: 1. Tafsir al-Thalabi: "Ibn Abbas and some others said that the verse was revealed regarding Mut'ah" 2. Tafsir al-Qurtubi: "The majority said that it refers to Nikah al-Mut'ah which existed during the beginning of Islam" 3. Tafsir Haqqani: "This verse refers to Nikkah al-Mut'ah, which was permissible in the beginning of Islam then sharyah deemed it Haram. And in the recitations of Abi bin Ka'ab, Ibn Abbas and Saeed bin Jubayr i.e 'ila ajal al musama (for a prescribed period) confirm this." 4. Tafsir ibn Kathir: "This verse refers to Nikah al-Mutah" "Mujahid said that this (verse) was revealed for nikah al-Mut'ah" 5. Imam Jalaludeen Suyuti records the views of a great Tabi'in, Ismael ibn Abdulrahman al-Sedi (d. 127H): "Narrated Ibn Jarir from al-Sedi about the verse: 'This is the mutah, the man marries a woman on a condition of a specified period..." 6. Ibn Hajar in Al-Ajaeb fi Bayan al-Asbab records the views of Maqatil Ibn Sulaiman: "Maqatil said that it was revealed regarding Mut'ah" 7. Imam Nawawi stated: "It has been said about His (Allah's) statement {Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed} that referred to Nikah al-Mut'ah" 8. Allama Waheedu zaman, the 20th century Sunni scholar writes: "On the topic of Mut'ah, differences have arisen amongst the sahaba, the Ahl'ul Hadith, and they deemed Mut'ah to be permissible, since Mut'ah under the Shari'ah was practised and this is proven, and as evidence of permissibility they cite verse 24 of surah nisa as proof. The practice of Mut'ah is definite and there is ijma (consensus) on this and you can't refute definite proof by using logic" ************************ Imam Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani in his 'Talkhees al-Habeer fi Takhreej al-Hadeeth al-Rafa al-Kabeer', vol. 3. P 159 (printed cairo) provides a list of all those sahaba and tabi'in who deemed Mut'ah permissible: "After the death of the holy prophet (s), a group of salaf deemed it Halal. Amongst the sahaba they were Asma bint Abu Bakar, Jabir Ibn Abdullah, Ibn Masood, Ibn Abbas, Mu'awiyyah, Amro ibn Huraith, Abu Saeed, Salama and Mu'abid Ibn Umaya ibn Khalaf. He said that Jabir reported from the companions that (it was valid) during the reign of the prophet, Abu Bakar and some part of Umar's reign. He said that it is reported from Umar that he forbade it only if there were not two just witnesses. Some of Tabi'in deemed (it Halal) such as Tawoos, Atta, Saeed ibn Jubair and the majority of the jurists of Makka." |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by AlBaqir(m): 3:57pm On Nov 05, 2014 |
@Sino, Exposition of The Context of the verse The context of the verse also indicates it refer to 'temporary marriage'. In the preceding verses, the Quran forbids acts of injustice toward women. "Oh believers, it is not lawful for you to inherit from women against their will; neither debar them, that you may go off with part of what you have given them." ~Q4:19 The most commonly accepted interpretation of this verse is that it forbids the pre-Islamic Arab custom of inheriting stepmothers. When a man died, one of his sons would inherit his wife, as long as she was not his own mother. The next verse reads in part as follows: "And if you desire to exchange a wife in place of another, and you have given to one a hundred-weight, take of it nothing" ~Q.4:20. In other words, if a man divorces a wife to marry a different wife, he must not take back any of the dower that he has given the first, even if the dower is a very large one and he desires only a small part of it. The next subject referred to in this passage is the marriage of one's father's wife: "And do not marry women that your fathers married..." ~Q4:22. Both this verse and verse 19 were revealed after Abu Qays ibn al-Aslat died and his wife was inherited and married by his son Muhsin. In the following verse (4:23) the Quran enumerates the women who are forbidden to men. These are divided into seven kinds stemming from blood relationship and seven more stemming from other causes: "Forbidden to you are your mothers and daughters...". The next verse adds a 15th category of women forbidden to men: "And wedded women, save what your right hands own." It continues with the words quoted above: "Lawful for you is what is beyond all that." In other words, any woman not belonging to one of the 15 categories is permitted, whether by marriage or ownership. Next the verse states: "that you may seek, using your wealth, in wedlock and not in license." Grammatically, this clause is in apposition to "what is beyond all that". It explains the legitimate mode of seeking relationships with women, whether as the result of marriage or the purchase of slaves. The next part of this same verse states as follows: "So those of them whom you enjoy, give them their appointed wages." The word 'so' (fa) shows that this part of the verse is the conclusion reached by the previous words. This section is either part of the previous subject matter, or an example of it; in other words, its relation to the previous section is either that of the part which is completing the whole, or the particular example to the universal principle. And since the previous section deals with the different kinds of legitimate sexual relationships, either by marriage or the purchase of slaves, we can conclude that this section of the verse is the exposition of a further kind of marriage, not mentioned previously; a kind which requires that the man pay wages of his wife. The next verse states that if a man is too poor to marry a free Muslim woman, he should marry a Muslim slave girl... Finally, this section of the chapter concludes with these words: "God desires to make clear to you, and to guide you to the customs of those who went before you, and to turn towards you; God is All-knowing, All-wise". ~Q.4:26 |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by AlBaqir(m): 4:00pm On Nov 05, 2014 |
@Sino, 2. Report of Imam Ali (as) Concerning Prohibition of Mut'ah At Khaybar "Verily the Prophet of God banned the mut'a of temporary marriage and the eating of the meat of domesticated asses." ~Al-Tafsir al-kabir, vol. III pg. 287 - 288. In Shi'a narration, this hadith is also found but graded as fabrication of the zaidis for many reasons among which is lying attributed to some of the narrators. Kindly visit: www.shiapen.com/comprehensive/mutah/misuse-of-shia-hadeeth.html The other part is the 'Matn (content)' of the narration. The hadith also have a k-leg and constitute another reason why shi'a reject the hadith. * The permission of mut'a first took place in the year Mecca was conquered. So how could 'Ali have claimed that Mut'a was banned on the Day of khaybar (3years before Mecca's conquest)? NB: There is no Single hadith that ever claimed the prophet permitted Mut'a, before or at khaybar, not to mention of forbidden it at khaybar. Khaybar is around 90miles off Medina. Abu bakar was the first to launch the attack of the conquest of khaybar but failed. He returned back to Madina with his troops. Umar was appointed the following day to lead the army to khaybar fortress. He alongside his troops failed and ran back. Then Ali was appointed, and he conquered the fortress. The holy prophet (saws) was not part of the mission and absolutely, there was never a complaint from any member of 'Ali's troop as to missing their wives that might have necessitate the permission for mut'ah. The only historical happening of notice at khaybar without the holy prophet's consent was the killing and eating of domesticated donkey, horses. There were groups of muslims who killed and cooked a score of donkeys which had escaped from a farm. It is this incident that led to the holy prophet's forbid to muslims the meat of horses, mules and donkeys unless consumption was forced by necessity. ~Encyclopedia of Islam" under the chapter "Khaybar" by Veccia Vagleri L. Therefore the only historical prohibition at khaybar was the eating of asses not Mut'ah. |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by AlBaqir(m): 4:06pm On Nov 05, 2014 |
@Sino, Umar's Sermon I have said so many about this sermon. The sermons are too explicit and mutawattir thereby contradict the single report that Umar refer the prohibition to the prophet. Some versions of the sermon reads: "Two types of mut'ah existed during the time of Allah's Messenger and I prohibit people from them" "Two types of mut'ah were present during the lifetime of Rasulullah, I prohibit them both, mut'ah of women and Mut'ah of Hajj" In Tafsir Kabir of Imam Razi, it reads: "Two Mut'ah existed during Rasulullah's lifetime and I now prohibit both of them" In Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbali, Abi Nadhra said: "I said to jabir ibn Abdullah that Ibn Zubair prohibits Mut'ah while Ibn Abbas allows it. He (Jabir) replied:"Through me this hadith has been circulated, we performed Mut'ah with Allah's messenger, and Abu Bakar, but when Umar become caliph he addressed the people and said:"The Quran is the same Quran, Allah's Apostle is the same apostle, and there were two types of mut'ah during the time of Allah's messenger, one was the Mut'ah of Hajj whilst the other was Mut'ah regarding women". ~vol. 1 pg 52 hadith 369 * In fact part of the sermon showed that Umar threatened people with the punishment of stoning - whoever practice Mut'ah. No doubt that is even against the shariah for stoning is for a married man/woman who committed adultery. Here Imam Fakhr deen al-Razi absolved Umar that he just used that to frighten people and not that he meant it. ** Why was Mut'ah of Hajj reversed long after Umar's death and not Mut'ah of woman? After all he prohibited the two together. ***************** You made a very sound argument that if we assumed that it was Umar who prohibited Mut'a during his days as a caliph, why were Uthman and Ali not revert the practice back? I don't want to say much about the khilafa of Uthman. That is another subject on its own. But suffice is to say that Uthman's assumption of power was characterized by the oath he made to follow the "Quran, the sunnah of the prophet and the sunnah of the two sheiks (Abu Bakar and Umar)". Before Umar dies, he appointed 6 candidates: Abdurrahman ibn Awf, Zubair, Talha, Uthman, Ali and (sorry I forgot the last man). His explicit will was that his successor should be choose among the 6 and if there's dispute, and there was 2 parties, the party in which Abdur-Rahman belong should emerge where his successor will be chosen. At the end Talha, Zubair support Ali. While Abdur-Rahman ibn Awf and x supported Uthman making two parties. However, 'Ali was told: "You are going to be appointed as the khalifa based on three conditions - that you follow Quran, the Sunnah of the prophet and the sunnah of the two sheik" Ali rejected the third condition. Uthman accepted it and he was made the 3rd khalifa of the muslim. The 14 years of the reign of Uthman was in line with the sunnah established by the two sheiks. So there's no going back on Mut'a. 'Ali's Khilafa Imam 'Ali was reported to have said through many narration: "Had Umar not prohibited mut'a, no one but a wretched will commit zina" This is an indication that Ali had no power to overrule the prohibition of Umar or continuity of the prohibition by Uthman. Almost 3 decades of both Khilafa - Umar and Uthman. Imam 'Ali's ruled for 4 years. Years plagued with civil wars not known at his predecessors time. In fact, the very moment he assumed power, the beats of the drums of battle can be heard everywhere. * Battle of Jamal * Battle of Siffin * Battle of Nahrawan Each of these battles lasted for months. What many historian write about the khilafa of Ali was war war war. Yet shi'a have many traditions attributed to Imam Ali that he approved of Mut'ah. We have sermons, sayings, letters, maxism etc of Imam Ali at the time of Khilafa. All these were missing in the basket of traditions of Ahlu Sunnah. |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by sino(m): 10:16am On Nov 06, 2014 |
AlBaqir:Wa alaykum salam brother, Alhamdulilah, I appreciate your good words, and amin to your dua’s I agree with your submission, these 3 are were we differ, hopefully, we can agree to some extent… AlBaqir:My contention with the bold is that, it is quite a sweeping statement, which may lead to false conclusion by an uniformed person. One thing is for an opinion to be recorded in a book, and another is to affirm an opinion, for example, someone may say Allah (SWT) affirms the drinking of alcohol, for the fact that he had read in the Qur’an where Allah said there are benefits in alcohol. In most cases, books of tafsirs are a compilation of different narrations, from sahabas, from tabi'in and from scholars. I had stated earlier that the two opinions in regards to Qur’an 4 vs 24 were presented, and thereafter, a conclusion is made by the author on which opinion is most accurate, based on facts. In your list is Tafsir kabir by Fakhir deen Ar Razi, in fact, the way he presented the tafsir was so beautiful, it’s a pity I can’t post everything here. He first presented the definition of istamt’atum, corroborating with other ayahs in which it is also used in the Qur’an…then he presented the opinion that it refers to Nikkah in this verse, after which he presented the opinion that it refers to mut’ah. He then said and I quote: “A great multitude of the ummah moved with the opinion that it was abrogated, while another multitude moved with mu’tah being permissible as it were based on narrations from Ibn Abbas (ra) and Imran ibn Husayn (ra)". He further stated, In regards to Ibn Abbas (ra), there are 3 narrations, one was on the permissibility of mut’ah, the other was on permissibility of mut’ah due to necessity just like eating haram meat, and the third was the prohibition of mut’ah based on surah Talaq vs 1. It is also mentioned that in a narration, before the death of Ibn Abbas (ra), he made taubah in regards mut’ah and sarf. The above are from Tafsir Ar Razi of Qur'an 4:24, same can be said of tafsir tabari, tafsir Ahkam al Qur'an amongst others...i.e, the two opinions are always presented and the first opinion is always affirmed to be the most accurate. Note, I do not disagree with the fact that some sahabas, believed that the ayah is about mut’ah, true, their narrations are in books of tafsir, but it does not affirm that the ayah was about mut’ah, since there was another opinion that it is about Nikkah, which is what the majority accepted. |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by sino(m): 10:21am On Nov 06, 2014 |
AlBaqir:Brother, to me, mut’ah just doesn’t fit into the narrative; it reads more of the continuation of what is being discussed, stating that what is enjoyed with those who are lawful, give them their dues… If we are to go by the definition of mut’ah, especially, the narration of ibn Abbas when asked if mut’ah is nikkah or zinah and he answered neither, we therefore cannot call mut’ah a form of nikkah. Allah (SWT) said give them their wages (literally) this same word is used in the subsequent verse (Q4:25) and else were in the Qur’an to mean dowry which is part of a permanent nikkah, {فَمَا اسْتَمْتَعْتُم بِه مِنْهُنَّ فَاَاتُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ} (فَانكِحُوهُنَّ بِإِذْنِ أَهْلِهِنَّ وَءَاتُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ} (النساء : 25) {وَلا جُنَاحَ عَلَيْكُمْ أَن تَنكِحُوهُنَّ إِذَآ ءَاتَيْتُمُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ } (الممتحنة : 10) “…Wed them with the leave of their owners and give them their dowers according to what is reasonable: they should be chaste not lustful nor taking paramours…”4:25 “…And there will be no blame on you if ye marry them on payment of their dower to them.” 60:10 Again, there is absolutely nowhere else in the Qur’an where mut’ah is mentioned (as a type of marriage), and this verse seems not to be explicit enough to derive such conclusion. Ibn Jawzi said “وقال ابن الجوزي : « وقد تكلف قوم من المفسّرين فقالوا : المراد بهذه الآية نكاح المتعة ، ثم نسخت بما روي عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أنه نهى عن متعة النساء ، وهذا تكلف لا يحتاج إليه ، لأن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أجاز المتعة ثم منع منها فكان قوله منسوخاً بقوله ( يعني بالسنة ) وأما الآية فإنها لا تتضمن جواز المتعة وإنما المراد بها الاستمتاع في النكاح » "Indeed, an assumption was made by some people of tafsir that what is meant by this verse, is nikkah of mut’ah, then it was abrogated from what was narrated from the Prophet (SAW) that he prohibited the mut’ah of women, this assumption is unnecessary, for the Prophet (SAW) permitted mut’ah, then he prohibited it, hence, his statement was abrogated by his statement (i.e sunnah). And in regards to the verse, it does not permit mut’ah, but what it means is the enjoyment in Nikkah” (Tafsir Razi) |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by sino(m): 10:27am On Nov 06, 2014 |
AlBaqir: As I have mentioned earlier, this hadith is also mentioned in sunni books, and it is graded sahih. I would definitely work with a sahih hadith, than anything from history books (I believe you know the reason?). This hadith was recorded in at least 3 shia books, and there are narrations also that suggest the same meaning... So I visited the site you recommended, and from what I have read, I would say, these narrations (presented here and others) are indeed in shia books, but the explanation in regards to them are different. However, one thing that strikes me, is the fact that some of the Imams, made it haram for some people, and for some reasons ranging from protecting the life of some, forbidding it due to permanent marriage, to the abuse of mut'ah in which it is equated to prostitution. In light of this, I do not see why we should even be arguing, it is clear that some of these reasons (and the ones mentioned earlier), as well as authentic narrations prohibiting mut'ah, is what the sunni Ulamah are working with, and thus maintaining the ruling that it is prohibited. |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by sino(m): 10:36am On Nov 06, 2014 |
AlBaqir:To the above, i'll quote an argument from tafsir Ar Razi again: ما روي عن عمر رضي الله عنه أنه قال في خطبته : متعتان كانتا على عهد رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلّم أنا أنهي عنهما وأعاقب عليهما ، ذكر هذا الكلام في مجمع الصحابة وما أنكر عليه أحد ، فالحال ههنا لا يخلو إما أن يقال : انهم كانوا عالمين بحرمة المتعة فسكتوا ، أو كانوا عالمين بأنها مباحة ولكنهم سكتوا على سبيل المداهنة ، أو ما عرفوا إباحتها ولا حرمتها. فسكتوا لكونهم متوقفين في ذلك ، والأول هو المطلوب ، والثاني يوجب تكفير عمر ، وتكفير الصحابة لأن من علم أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلّم حكم باباحة المتعة ، ثم قال : إنها محرمة محظورة من غير نسخ لها فهو كافر بالله ، ومن صدقه عليه مع علمه بكونه مخطئا كافرا ، كان كافرا أيضا. وهذا يقتضي تكفير الأمة وهو على ضد قوله : {كُنتُمْ خَيْرَ أُمَّةٍ} (آل عمران : 110). And what was narrated in regards to Umar (ra) forbidding the two mut’ah, this statement was made in the congregation of sahabas, and no one repudiated his claim. This kind of position held by the sahabas leaves us either to say: 1. They know of the prohibition of mut’ah, and therefore were silent 2. They know that it is permissible, but kept quiet just for “eye service” 3. Or they do not know either it is permissible or prohibited, and thus they were comfortable in being silent The first would be what is expected, for the second requires the takfir of Umar (ra), and the takfir of the sahabas because who ever knows that the Prophet (SAW) ruled on the permissibility of mut’ah, and says it is haram and forbidden without (proof) of its abrogation, is a kafir, and whoever validates him, knowing that he is in the wrong and a kafir, is also a kafir, and this will lead to the takfir of the ummah and this is against the statement of Allah (SWT): “you are the best ummah...” Qur’an 3:110 (Tafsir Ar Razi) Uthman (ra) ruled for 14 years, and no sahabah challenged him in regards to the rulings of Umar (ra)?! Actually, this goes against what I was thought in regards to the thirst for knowledge and the determination to act on the sunnah by the sahabas (may Allah have mercy on them all). And in regards to Ali”s (ra) statement, even admitting that he made such a statement, it then means he didn’t see it as an issue, the statement does not in any way suggest he disapproves what Umar (ra) did, nor does it say he revert the ruling of umar(ra). Agreed he had his hands full with different skirmishes and battles, one would have expected a solid narration that would show his disapproval of the changing of the sunnah by his predecessors, and then establishing the sunnah 100%. In conclusion, I find the reasons put forward by sunni scholars responsible and appropriate in regards to the prohibition of mut'ah. The Shias, from what you have presented so far, shows that it is not a free for all affair, in regards to mut'ah, but should be as a result of conditions and necessities which then limits it to a certain group of people in the society. All in all, I believe what should be promoted is the permanent Nikkah, it is what creates the family as described in the Qur'an and Sunnah, and it is what creates the society at large. And Allah Knows best. |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by AlBaqir(m): 1:04pm On Nov 06, 2014 |
sino: @sino, here are my final conclusion: 1. A situation where there's disagreement on an issue among the sahaba and later generation, what do we do? Is Q4:24 about Mut'ah or not? Two different opinions among the sahaba, tabi'in, tabi-tabi'in till this generation. On hadith pertaining to Mut'ah! Two categories of contradictory ahadith. What should be the basis of our selection in choosing a path from the two contradicting opinions? * To the shi'a, hadith al-Thaqalain is adhere to where the holy prophet (saws) was reported to have said: "I leave amongst over you two Khalifa; the book of Allah...and my household. The two will never part until they meet me at the pool" "I leave amongst over you two weighty things so long you adhere to them you will never go astray; the book of God...and my offspring, my ahl al-bayt" The Imams of the purified ahl al-bayt interpreted the verse 24 of sura Nisa to be referring to the legality of Mut'ah. And argued it was never overruled either by any other verse or hadith of their father (saws). Imam Jafar Sadiq (as) says: "Mut'a was approved by the text of the Quran and became part of the sunna of the prophet." ~wasa'il, vol. XIV, 437 hadith 5 Once Abu Hanifa who happened to have studied under Imam Jafar sadiq, asked the Imam about Mut'a. He replied: "Which of the two mut'as do you mean?". Abu Hanifa answered: "I have already asked you about the mut'a of the hajj. So tell me about the mut'a of marriage.". The Imam said, "Glory be to God! Have you not read the Qur'an? "So those of them whom you enjoy, give to them their appointed wages"(4:24) ~Wasa'il, vol. XIV, p.437, hadith 6. From the 1st Imam to the 12th Imam, there is no disagreement pertaining to the verse 24 of sura nisa being refer to Mut'a; hence, the word of the prophet:"both (Quran and ahl al-bayt) will never separate until they meet me at the pool". This has been our firm resolution. ******************************* 2. As per the arguments of Imam Razi in his Tafsir kabir, the Shi'is reply is as follow: " 'Umar's sermon demonstrates that during the lifetime of the prophet, mut'a was permitted. The reason 'Umar attributed the banning to himself is that he wanted to show that he was expressing his own view. If the prophet himself had prohibited mut'a, or if its permissibility pertained only to a specific period in time, then, 'Umar would have attributed its prohibition to the prophet, not to himself. Another saying concerning mut'a is also attributed to 'Umar: "God permitted for His prophet what He willed, and the Quran has been revealed in its entirety. So complete the hajj and the 'Umra as God has commanded you. But avoid marrying these women, and do not bring before me any man who has married a woman for a specified period, or I will stone him."(Muslim, al-sahih, cairo, 1334/1916, vol. IV p. 38 'chapter: al-mut'a bi l-hajj wa 'l- 'umra') The sole reason why the sahaba remained silent is simply because of 'Umar's threaten to punish, and considering his fable severity, no one would have dared to speak against him. There are reports of 'Umar's brutal treatment of other sahaba who go against his ruling. If you so wish I will furnish you in the sahihain. ***************************** 3. As per Ibn Abbas (ra) definition of mut'a not 'Nikkah or fornication but mut'a as Allah defined it', thereby you reasoned it is not a nikkah. What you should know is that Ibn Abbas definition meant Mut'a is not a Nikkah in Permanent marriage sense which is what is common. What are the conditions which makes a union between man and woman 'Nikkah? Everything is there also in the case of Mut'a except the point that it is for a fixed period. So that makes it a Nikkah. Then I thought we've clarified the issue of Ibn Abbas being making Tawbah on his permissibility of mut'a. The hadith is daeef so I don't expect you bringing up the point again. Pertaining to Ibn Abbas submission to sura Talaq :1 being abrogated sura nisa:24, it is interesting that the same Ibn Abbas was reported in another hadith that no sura or ayah was revealed to have abrogated verse of mut'a. Besides, Sura Talaq:1 & Mu'min:5-6 were all revealed before the verse 24 of an-Nisa. Only a new sura or ayah can abrogated an old or previous ayah. *************************** 4. Question: What is Sunni's (only those who deemed Mut'a haram) solution and verdict for a soldier's or a businessman's sexual urge who is on a mission for years or months, away from his family? Please don't mention fasting for it cannot solve majority's problem. Even sahaba failed in this regard. I Have once iron that out on this forum. |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by MrOlai: 11:46am On Nov 07, 2014 |
@Albaqir. The position of Islam from d Prophet(SAW), Abubakr, Umar, Uthman & Ali(Radiyallah ani'um ajma'in) on mut'ah is dat it is haram till d day of judgement. Dat u can hav sex with another woman's husband now in d name of mut'a, it is one of d problems created in d society by ur Imams! May Allah(SWT) forgive & have mercy on them. It is even reported dat Ali(R.A) ordered d execution of some of d shi'a leaders during his life time for attributing to him what he was not! -The Islam's solution & verdict for a soldier or a businessman who is away from his family is to remain chaste, endure & remain patient till he comes back home just like d wife @ home should remain chaste & patient. If it is possible, he can bring his family close to him. He is not to commit zina in d name of mut'a. Wallahu 'alam. |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by MrOlai: 11:55am On Nov 07, 2014 |
@Albaqir. What is shi'as solution & verdict for a soldier's or a businessman's wife's sexual urge whose husband is on a mission for years or months, away from her? Since u said d husband can hav sex with other women in d name of mut'ah because of his sexual urge. U must answer dis o! |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by sino(m): 12:20pm On Nov 07, 2014 |
AlBaqir: I respect your shi'a opinion, and as i have mentioned earlier, it is a fiqh issue which should not cause any major differences normally. I think we have established so far, that it is not mandatory, it is prohibited for married couples, and it is only recommended (according to the shai'a) for a minute group (those who cannot control their sexual desires) in the society. To your question then, i quote from Tafsir Akham Al Qur'an : The Ahl Sunnah justified the prohibition of mut'ah based on the summarry of the following points Firstly: Sex is unlawful except with a wife or the female which the right hand possesses, this is based on Allah (SWT) statement: “And those who guard their private parts, except with their wives or what the right hand possesses” (Qur'an 23 vs 5-6). this (woman in mut'ah) is not a wife, and she is not what your right hand possesses, for if she was a wife, then there would be inheritance, and proven relationship by marriage (lineage and kinship) and also, obligatory iddah. The agreement of mut'ah does not prove all these, hence it is void. Secondly: indeed, there are hadiths that reports the prohibition, among them is what was narrated by malik from Azhury with is chain, narrated from Ali (ra) that verily the Messanger of Allah (SAW) prohibited Mut'ah of women and the eating of donkey meat. Thirdly: what was related by Ibn Majah, that the Messanger of Allah (SAW) forbade Mut'ah, by saying: “Oh people,, I had permitted for you mut'ah, and verily Allah has definitely forbidden it till the day of judgement”. Fourthly: Indeed, Umar (ra) forbade it while on the minbar during his days of being the Caliph, the Sahabas, agreed (or affirmed) may Allah have mercy on them all, and their agreement is not a mistake, and if they agreed on it by mistake (or for any other reason), then it means it is a consensus from them. Fifthly: Indeed, temporary marriage is only inteded to satisfy the desire, it is not intended for procreation, nor for taking care of the children. The initial intention is just to marry, but it can be likened to fornication, in the sense that, the intention of enjoyment without anything else attached, and Allah the most high said: ...seeking chastity not fornication (zina)” and there is nothing intended with mut'ah except to fulfill the desire, to ejaculate and free the vessels... thus, mut'ah is nullified based on these conditions. I know some of the hadiths have been discussed, i am just presenting the sunni's perspective... In the furtherance of the sunni perspective, i say, not having sex for a long period of time will not lead to death, and sex is just a thing of the mind. In most cases, when your mind is preoccupied with productive activities, you basically think less of sex. You can definitely tame your sexual urges. Islam has provided practicable steps in avoiding illegal sexual intercourse, and they include, 1. Lowering the gaze 2. Not associating with the opposite sex whereby you are both alone in seclusion 3. Putting on cloths that do not reveal the awrah of both man and woman 4. Engaging in religious activities that increases Iman, ihsan and taqwa such as supergatory fasting, salah and tahajjud 5. Associating oneself with righteous people, attending study circles where you are reminded about Allah constantly 6. And lastly, early marriage These steps are applicable whether you are traveling or living in your own community, if you are single, you can always get married anywhere in the world. If you are married before traveling, you take your wife along, I know of people who traveled for various reasons, like study and job, and they took their wives with them, not only that, institutions around the world, even within Nigeria, understand and acknowledge the importance of family, thus they always ask the status questions, which enables them provide comprehensive support (if there is any) for your family. I have read a narration in regards to Umar (ra) setting the limit of 3 months for a soldier on military expeditions, this was as a result of a woman complaining about missing her husband. This has always been the verdict of sunni scholars, it is highly disliked being away from your wives for long periods, thus the issues with tabligh brothers and their long da'wah camps. Jazakumullahu khayran for your time. May Allah continue to give us His tawfeeq ameen. |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by AlBaqir(m): 3:17pm On Nov 07, 2014 |
@sino, ma sha Allah. At least weve both presented our arguments only for objective mind to take a stance. Sorry, when you claimed mut'a is just to fulfill sexual desires, have you forgotten that Zubair ibn Awwam and Asma bint Abu bakar had children, Abdullah and Ur'wah through mut'a? Whats sunni's position on that. Abdullah ibn Zubair later became a top dog in sunni world. ************* Still on my question- solution to a soldier or bussinessman's sexual desire. If what you presented is indeed sunni submission, then why is the same sunni sought solution in MISYAR NIKKAH? This shows there is no ijma to the solution of that question. The listed points remain a theory that can never be practice by ALL. Even prominents and common sahabas failed in controlling this animal desire. Wa salam. |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by sino(m): 8:39pm On Nov 07, 2014 |
AlBaqir: Well, first and foremost, going by the definition of mut'ah, and how it was practiced, and even the site of Sistani, shows clearly that children is never part of the goal of mut'ah, but we know that unprotected sex can lead to pregnancy, so a "marriage" where the woman is not entitled to any subsistence while in it or even when pregnant simply shows that babies are not actually wanted. on the Zubair Ibn Awwam and Asma' Bint Ababakr, it is strange to me, so i went online digging for info http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/printthread.php?t=57727&pp=10&page=171 @Misyar, honestly, i only came across it on this thread, i don't know "shi shi" about it, i have not read about it, nor have i listened to any scholar's opinion about it, and i am so reluctant to even try...but i'll see what i can do during the weekend if i am free in sha Allah. |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by sino(m): 8:13pm On Nov 08, 2014 |
http://www.askimam.org/public/question_detail/17087 |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by sino(m): 8:15pm On Nov 08, 2014 |
http://daruliftaa.com/node/6159?txt_QuestionID= |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by Empiree: 9:10pm On Nov 08, 2014 |
nawa oooo.... This is a case of kettle calling pot black. |
Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by sino(m): 6:07am On Nov 09, 2014 |
Empiree: My posts on Misyar are not sanctions for misyar, they are meant for educational purposes only 1. Misyar is not like mut'ah, one is permanent Nikah, while the other is temporary Nikah, hence it's validity if all the conditions of Nikah are met. 2. Misyar is not given a pass mark by scholars, there is no consensus and it is peculiar to certain region, the prevalence is as a result of some issues bordering around finances, widows and divorced women. 3. As rightly stated by Mufti Muhammad Ibn Adam, it is not found in the Qur'an, Sunnah or classical works of Islamic Jurisprudence, thus, it is a matter not explicitly sanctioned by the shari'ah, and can only be based on Ijtihad, hence the conclusion to seek counsel from a reputable scholar based on individual's peculiarity. And Allah (SWT) Knows best |
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