You have not shown any verse supporting Christ intercession for the world. Read Hebrews 9:24

mbaemeka:


I have shown how Jesus intercedes for the world and how the Holy Spirit intercedes for the saints. You lot should tell us how Jesus is there in heaven begging the father to keep the saints saved or answer their prayers. Even when Jesus told us he would never do that.

shdemidemi:


Are you joking? The focus here is the word 'help' and not the helper's position.


check this -

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ctWbMD0_p_UC&pg=PT2720&lpg=PT2720&dq=Romans+8:26+vine%27s+expository+dictionary&source=bl&ots=XyaKu9q7uo&sig=xT7CmR6f78IH6o_f31oo9S38e4Q&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6_lbVIO6LNPfaPaCgMgH&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Romans%208%3A26%20vine's%20expository%20dictionary&f=false

I read the links and I would wish you would answer the HOW-question me and Bidam have been asking you. We didn't say the Holy Spirit doesn't make intercessions. We said he does it THROUGH the christian. He does not do it on his own.

Why not read up the meanings of the word Help as used there and the commentary he provided.

mbaemeka:


The Holy Spirit is in the christian. That's how and from where he mediates.

You make it sound like He is restricted to the body of a Christian, He is a spirit(wind) remember!

Hebrews shows us Jesus as BOTH a sacrifice and a High Priest. It is very clear the sacrifice was offered once and for everybody but his role as an intercessor is different from his sacrifice and that's why he is still at it. Again read Hebrews 9:24,7:25 and Romans 8:34

I can't dignify your spiritual aberrations sir, am too busy.

Again, the intercession for the saints are Holy Spirit's not yours

mbaemeka:


The word mediate and intercede mean the same things hope you know. Also, your reasoning that the High priest only worked for God's people and not everyone is equally OP like most of your posts. Jesus did not die on the cross for God's people, he died for the whole world. Do you see how the OT high priests and he differ?

My question was not irrelevant but because you don't even understand what is being discussed you saw no reason to respond to them. If you say his role as an intercessor is for only christians and that it had nothing to do with forgiveness then please show us what the role is. Also show us how he carries them out.

Your last paragraph is as dumb as it gets. Jesus is in HEAVEN making intercessions. The Holy Spirit is in christians helping them while they pray and you are drawing a parallel. What parallel? Why didn't the Holy Spirit stretch his own hands to heal people? Why did he answer the apostles by using their own hands?

vooks:
You have not shown any verse supporting Christ intercession for the world. Read Hebrews 9:24

Gal 3:20, 1 Timothy 2:5

To Intercede is to mediate.

shdemidemi:


You make it sound like He is restricted to the body of a Christian, He is a spirit(wind) remember!

His presence is everywhere but his manifested presence is not everywhere.

vooks:
Hebrews shows us Jesus as BOTH a sacrifice and a High Priest. It is very clear the sacrifice was offered once and for everybody but his role as an intercessor is different from his sacrifice and that's why he is still at it. Again read Hebrews 9:24,7:25 and Romans 8:34

I can't dignify your spiritual aberrations sir, am too busy.

Again, the intercession for the saints are Holy Spirit's not yours

Jesus as an intercessor, is he pleading with God on the christians behalf? How so and why seeing that they are already christians?

The Holy Spirit makes the intercessions THROUGH the believer.

These verses restrict themselves to Christ sacrifice and not His intercession in Heaven

Again, Christ sacrifice is for everyone. Mediation is NOT intercession as used in the verses I just shared; it is ongoing in heaven. Is Christ still offering himself?

mbaemeka:


Gal 3:20, 1 Timothy 2:5

To Intercede is to mediate.

shdemidemi:


I feared the worse when I saw that, thank God it was an analogy. Though, I still don't think visible proofs or experiences are are yardsticks for measuring spirituality.

I am really sorry for misquoting you.

That's fine. You are a gentleman. And a good christian man. In fact, your character qualifies you as a WOFer!

You don't need his intercession, right?

mbaemeka:


Jesus as an intercessor, is he pleading with God on the christians behalf? How so and why seeing that they are already christians?

The Holy Spirit makes the intercessions THROUGH the believer.

WinsomeX:


And the way it manifests itself is through experiences? Sign and wonders; miracles; breakthroughs; etc. My friend: the Just shall live by faith and not experiences.

There are many sincere Christian people who will live and die not having experienced a thing and they are soundly God's people who will have greater rewards than some who seem to glory in demons they cast out, miracles they did; alas the Master saith I knew you not, you workers of iniquity.

Why did Paul in all epistles extol the faith, hope and love of the saints; why did he not extol their experiences? It was bc experiences are not what have value before God. You want experiences? Satan will give you plenty.

I am grateful to God for revealing his Son to me, the one I follow daily by faith. Dying to myself and living to him. Endeavoring to walk in holiness and a way worthy of the gospel.

I have had pleasant experiences in my walk with Jesus. Saved at the height of sin; to serve the living God. Blessed with the best family on earth. Called to ministry to serve the living God. Endured great suffering for my testimony in Christ both in the church and in the world. Daily looking unto Jesus the author and the finisher of my faith. Pleasant experiences I tell you.

But all of that I count as dung, only that I may know him, partaking in the fellowship of his sufferings that somehow I might attain to a glorious resurrection to receive the only commendation worth it all: well done good and faithful servant.

That's all the experience I have and all the experience I need. Faith is enough; I am complete in Christ!

You seem to be a master of conflation!

What is the issue here?

1. The experiences are NOT genuine.
2. The experiences should not be placed above the fruit of the spirit.

I don’t know anybody in WOF who has issues with #2. There are many messages on the place of character and charisma. The Lord even gave me one recently. The point is that when people mention experiences, you attack it on the basis that they are not genuine. When they want to show they’re genuine, you dismiss them as elevating experience over character. Haba! Which one is your problem?

In terms of character, thank God for what He’s doing in your life. But do you seriously think you have better character than everybody or even most people in WOF? I can assure you that character wise, you cannot come close to standing before the Hagin you attack all the time. The fact that you have nothing to attack him on character wise (save plagiarism, which doesn’t count here) is why you cling to laughter and snake hissing and any other stuff you can conjure.

vooks:
These verses restrict themselves to Christ sacrifice and not His intercession in Heaven
Again, Christ sacrifice is for everyone. Mediation is NOT intercession as used in the verses I just shared; it is ongoing in heaven. Is Christ still offering himself?

To understand why I said Christs intercession is not for only christians you need to understand what his intercessory role entails. What is he pleading for? How is he pleading?

I said it before that to us christians he is there to prove that we are saved. To the world he is there to prove that they can be if they believe in him.

But when it comes to the Holy Spirit, his role was for only us because he performs that role while dwelling in us.

vooks:

You don't need his intercession, right?

He is not begging for me to be saved or to stay away from evil. Jesus is on the place of power now (the right hand) and the father is IN him. Jesus is not pleading to the father per se. Jesus blood is what is pleading that men can be saved and that saved men are still saved.

You are wresting with scriptures my brother


Romans 8:34 (ESV)
34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us

Hebrews 7:25 (ESV)
25 Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

Hebrew 9:24 (ESV)
24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.


Once again, can you categorically say that as a believer you mr mbaemeka don't need ANY of Christ's intercession in heaven, and are excluded from the words highlighted in blue?

mbaemeka:

To understand why I said Christs intercession is not for only christians you need to understand what his intercessory role entails. What is he pleading for? How is he pleading?
I said it before that to us christians he is there to prove


that we are saved. To the world he is there to prove that they can be if they believe in him.
But when it comes to the Holy Spirit, his role was for only us because he performs that role while dwelling in us.

And may heaven be a witness to your inconsistency. Here you are posing a rhetorical question with a negative implication. Jesus is not interceding for Christians. But above you reverse yourself and now Jesus' intercession is not for only Christians

mbaemeka:


Jesus as an intercessor, is he pleading with God on the christians behalf? How so and why seeing that they are already christians?

The Holy Spirit makes the intercessions THROUGH the believer.

vooks:
You are wresting with scriptures my brother


Romans 8:34 (ESV)
34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us

Hebrews 7:25 (ESV)
25 Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

Hebrew 9:24 (ESV)
24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.


Once again, can you categorically say that as a believer you mr mbaemeka don't need ANY of Christ's intercession in heaven, and are excluded from the words highlighted in blue?

1 John 2:1-2. I didn't say he doesn't intercede for the christians. I said he doesn't do it for the christians ALONE. It is for the whole world.

You are taking my question that you cannot answer and claiming that I have a negative implication for asking it? How dishonest of you.

I asked that question to prove to you that you do not understand Christ's role as an intercessor because you are comparing it to the Holy Spirit's when I told you that Christ's role unlike the Holy Spirit's has a wider reach in that he is working externally and for the whole world but the Holy Spirit is working in US and for us alone.

You are a dishonest man

mbaemeka:


Jesus as an intercessor, is he pleading with God on the christians behalf? How so and why seeing that they are already christians?

The Holy Spirit makes the intercessions THROUGH the believer.

You have just denied something you posted. You need to repent over lying. You are aggressive in defending your beliefs but it is a shame that a man who prides himself with immortality ,maturity and immense spiritual experience can tell a bold lie

mbaemeka:


1 John 2:1-2. I didn't say he doesn't intercede for the christians. I said he doesn't do it for the christians ALONE. It is for the whole world.

vooks:
You are a dishonest man


You have just denied something you posted. You need to repent over lying. You are aggressive in defending your beliefs but it is a shame that a man who prides himself with immortality ,maturity and immense spiritual experience can tell a bold lie

The other readers can judge what you are trying to claim all because you cannot answer the questions I asked.

How is he pleading for us? What is he pleading for? I dare you to answer it so we can see how it is exclusively for christians. Your answer will prove who is being dishonest here.

Here is your theology. There are enough witnesses of flip flop. In any case it is not against vooks that you stand or fall.

Christ's intercession is ALWAYS in His person and not symbolic. Look at those three verse closely. It is the resurrected and ascended Christ who does this. The same Christ who will return on earth is currently interceding.

His intercession in heaven is captured in John 17 prayer.
Blood of Jesus is impersonal and it is absolutely unscriptural to argue that it is Christ's blood and not Him interceding. There is no blood of Jesus outside Jesus which is why your theory of double ascension is terminal lunacy. And there certainly is no blood of Jesus somewhere in heaven pleading.

And EXACTLY how is this blood pleading? Care to explain this? Father sees a jar of blood before Him and His fading memory is refreshed and he remembers Jesus' death?

mbaemeka:

Jesus is not begging anyone. He never told us he would beg anyone. His sacrifice was perfect and complete. If he has to beg the father for anyone then it means his sacrifice wasn't good enough.
.

mbaemeka:


If you say his role as an intercessor is for only christians and that it had nothing to do with forgiveness then please show us what the role is. Also show us how he carries them out.

mbaemeka:


I have shown how Jesus intercedes for the world and how the Holy Spirit intercedes for the saints. You lot should tell us how Jesus is there in heaven begging the father to keep the saints saved or answer their prayers. Even when Jesus told us he would never do that.

mbaemeka:


He is not begging for me to be saved or to stay away from evil. Jesus is on the place of power now (the right hand) and the father is IN him. Jesus is not pleading to the father per se. Jesus blood is what is pleading that men can be saved and that saved men are still saved.

mbaemeka:


The other readers can judge what you are trying to claim all because you cannot answer the questions I asked.

How is he pleading for us? What is he pleading for? I dare you to answer it so we can see how it is exclusively for christians. Your answer will prove who is being dishonest here.

^^^

Hebrews 12:24 KJV

And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel

Feel free to call the scriptures terminal lunacy. You are only exposing yourself further and further. You have now also claimed that I said Christ's intercession is symbolic when all I have said all through is that Christ is interceding for the whole world and not just christians, unlike the Holy Spirit who does so for only christians.

You claimed Christ was only interceding for us and tried to relate it to the Holy Spirit's role in Romans 8:26 and I told you how both roles differ. To prove my points I asked you how Christ performs his intercessory role and what he aims to achieve through it but you could not answer me. You even mocked yourself by saying intercession was not for forgiveness but could not still tell me what it was for.

It is clear you do not know what Christ's intercessory role is and for whom he performs such roles for. So I charge you to keep mum and let those who have a clue discuss.

And you are deliberately muddying your ignorance when called out.
Christ blood was shed for everyone and in that sense he is a mediator between man and God. Having done that and. Moving into Heaven, there is NEW role He plays, interceding for us believers. If you want to understand what he is interceding for, look at the one intercession prayer he made in John 17.

The absurdity of claiming that Jesus is not in heaven mediating but his blood is is a testament to indoctrination. I can pick an Oyaks tape and you bet it will be there.

You want to demonstrate your arrogant ignorance by telling us exactly how his blood is in heaven is mediating in heaven for sinners or how his blood got there and where it is stored not to mention what anti-coagulants it has

mbaemeka:
^^^

Hebrews 12:24 KJV

And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel

Feel free to call the scriptures terminal lunacy. You are only exposing yourself further and further. You have now also claimed that I said Christ's intercession is symbolic when all I have said all through is that Christ is interceding for the whole world and not just christians, unlike the Holy Spirit who does so for only christians.

You claimed Christ was only interceding for us and tried to relate it to the Holy Spirit's role in Romans 8:26 and I told you how both roles differ. To prove my points I asked you how Christ performs his intercessory role and what he aims to achieve through it but you could not answer me. You even mocked yourself by saying intercession was not for forgiveness but could not still tell me what it was for.

It is clear you do not know what Christ's intercessory role is and for whom he performs such roles for. So I charge you to keep mum and let those who have a clue discuss.

shdemidemi:


So many things we might ask God when we see Him.

He said when we believe, we become baptised... Nothing physical proved that to me but I believe it happened because the bible say so.

[size=16pt]He said the Holy Spirit will become resident in me[/size]... I did not see any shinning light or fire when this happened either but I believe it did happen.

He said the spirit groans within me and also prays in line with God's will for me...My five senses have failed to reveal how He does this but my Faith in the Word agrees with it completely.

He said I died to sin the day I accepted the faith and I became alive with Christ the hour I believed... No evidence.


The bible never promised to tell us how all these spiritual things work but It says 'reckon, consider' all these things done by faith and trust in God's word.



Why don't we know [size=16pt]how[/size] to pray as we ought to?

We do not know God's will.

Illustration- If the will of God is to put Joseph in prison according to His plan, do you think Joseph himself will ever pray to go prison? He won't because he does not have an idea of what God is doing with his life. Even while in prison, the man tried all he could humanly to be free, but God kept him there till the appointed time.

Similarly, you and I will never pray for pain, but sometimes the only way God teaches us is through pain, We become better than we were before the pain. We really do not know how to pray bro.

If Peter didn't go through the ordeal of denying Jesus, he might think he is god himself after all he had blabbed on how he can never turn is back even if all men turned against Christ. After this experience he learnt his lesson, he realised how fallible he really was.

evasive 101. A Christian sure knows how to pray as taught by the Lord's prayer in Luke 11:1-13. But a christian doesn't know what to pray for as he ought to. This is two different things, now this is where the Holy Spirit helps a Christian. THE MEAT OF THE VERSE IS PRAYER. At least thank God you conceded the Holy Spirit is resident in believers rather than your initial argument that He is in the air.

vooks:
Who told u am Shndemidemi?

Grow up and then debate maturely and I will dignify your post by responding to them

Ok, answer the question and stop playing to the gallery. The post wasn't meant for you, it was for shdemidemi on the groaning issue, so why dignify it to start with?

Am a Sunday school teacher and I like watching kids grow That's what am looking for in you

What was the question?

Bidam:
Ok, answer the question and stop playing to the gallery. The post wasn't meant for you, it was for shdemidemi on the groaning issue, so why dignify it to start with?

vooks:
Semantics again.....The help is by way of intercession. So define intercession other than praying for somebody

It might do you good to quit using an english dico to define what intercession means in a loose and general term and use a bible study tool for the Romans 8:26 debacle. Don't mislead gullible folks here.

vooks:
Am a Sunday school teacher and I like watching kids grow That's what am looking for in you

What was the question?

Save the crap for your sunday school kids.

Does the Holy Spirit speaks through thin air? Look at this verse of scripture.

Acts 13:2 "As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.". You can interpret this verse and say the Holy Spirit is speaking through the air to the disciples gathered here since according to vooks aka shdemidemi God's Spirit is in the air. grin

Now, that was a free lesson in sarcasm. Thank me and get serious.
What was the question?

Bidam:
Save the crap for your sunday school kids.

nlMediator:


If there's any comprehension problem, it's from your side, not mine. You said you're following Paul's example. I understood that and showed you how you were NOT following Paul's example. You're free not to respond, but to claim there's a comprehension issue here is laughable.

Indeed, I have come to my conclusion: you guys attack spiritual experiences because you hardly have any. The cure as recommended earlier is to get closer to the Holy Spirit and you'll see the difference. Claiming that you read the Bible is not sufficient. Even non-christians do. What makes the difference is how the Holy Spirit provides illumination as we read the Word.

Leave that guy jare, he is not following Paul's example but pastor kun example who decides to be silent on the mystic thread concerning his own experiences. Go through the thread, it's an eye opener to this guy gullibility.
https://www.nairaland.com/1955990/guilty-practising-mysticism/2

You need to man up and state your position like mbaemeka, I will toy with him till rapture but he knows his beliefs however wrong they are. I wish I could say the same for you.

Intercession is doing something on behalf of somebody. How do your prayers become Holy Spirit interceding for you?

Bidam:
It might do you good to quit using an english dico to define what intercession means in a loose and general term and use a bible study tool for the Romans 8:26 debacle. Don't mislead gullible folks here.

vooks:
Now, that was a free lesson in sarcasm. Thank me and get serious.
What was the question?

Never mind if you cannot answer it mr. sunday school teacher.

vooks:

You need to man up and state your position like mbaemeka, I will toy with him till rapture but he knows his beliefs however wrong they are. I wish I could say the same for you.

Intercession is doing something on behalf of somebody. How do your prayers become Holy Spirit interceding for you?

Did you consult your study tool? I am not mbaemeka, everyone has a unique style of driving home his points. I Like making a public display before destroying puffed up imaginations and ideas of men.

And I have little to zero patience for blabber. Can't help it am sorry. Hope you will understand

Bidam:
Did you consult your study tool? I am not mbaemeka, everyone has a unique style of driving home his points. I Like making a public display before destroying puffed up imaginations and ideas of men.