"And in my lady's chamber.
There I met an old man
Who wouldn't say his prayers,
So I took him by his left leg
And threw him down the
stairs."



choi, no no no.

Gombs:


Work o, plus planning for IPPC journey on the 17th! How have you been? I missed 2 pages o!

That 's good bro, you no see how we dey give this naysayers assignment in scriptures.

WinsomeX,

From basic mysticism, do you hear voices from spirits? 

Do you speak in tongues? 

What does mysticism say of the after life?

I believe that is your quote on the 2nd page of your thread. Now feel free to explain to us the line of your reasoning.

1. FROM BASIC MYSTICISM, do you speak in tongues?

This can be rearranged to mean that speaking in tongues comes from basic mysticism. QED

Secondly, I didn't say the Holy Spirit told me you said that. Please don't let your poor comprehension ability to betray you. I said the Holy Spirit told me you have NO fellowship with him and I stand by my claim. Then I said, I didn't even need him to tell me that before I knew. Your own posts have shown it over time. One of such posts is the above where you insinuate that speaking in tongues is mystic.

Do you understand so far?

vooks:
So Holy Spirit URGES FOR Bidam to pray? I thought I said no pidgin negro!

http://biblehub.com/topical/i/intercession.htm

Read that verse slowly without referring to your foundation class BS

Romans 8:26- 27 (ESV)
26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.
27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

The Holy Spirit Doesn't Do Our Praying for Us. There is no where in scripture where this error is supported. you do not pick a verse out of context and form a doctrine with it. It is called HERESY.

The Amplified version of First Corinthians 14:14 shows us more clearly our relationship with the Holy Spirit in prayer: "For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit [by the Holy Spirit within me] prays ...." Again, when you pray in tongues, it is your spirit by the Holy Spirit within you praying. The Holy Spirit within gives you the utterance, and you speak it out of your spirit. You do the talking—He gives the utterance.

Ukutsgp:
these questions are uncalled for. I have given u an explanation of the verse of scripture. So why the many questions? If you have any problem with my explanation, state it. I have told you what the intercession stands for and the definition of groaning.

Its called defending your words, if what you say can't stand scrutiny, it means they are wrong and if they are wrong you must debunk them. I noticed you did not give the full definition of groan and you also gave a definition of 'intercession' used in Rom 8:26 without reference.

vooks:
that is a sexist statement...'like women', like your mother?

You can see no one liked your insult. And i wonder who the kid is here that he was crying wolf about.

Ukutsgp:
What the holyspirit does for the saint is to give them the enablement, the ability to pray as they ought to. He helps them even when they are too weak to pray or lack utterances. The holyspirit is not the one doing the groaning, we are the one doing it in the place of prayer as the spirit gives us the ability. That is the intercession the holyspirit is doing for the saints.

God bless you bro, atleast me and you na pally pally for this one apart from tithes.

Image123:
"And in my lady's chamber.
There I met an old man
Who wouldn't say his prayers,
So I took him by his left leg
And threw him down the
stairs."



choi, no no no.

Prayerless Christians that wants the Holy Spirit to pray for them. I just dey laff.

You don't respect women. That's fatal primitivity

Bidam:
You can see no one liked your insult. And i wonder who the kid is here that he was crying wolf about.

Paraphrase translations are a refuge for the shallow believers who can't support their arguments

Bidam:
The Holy Spirit Doesn't Do Our Praying for Us. There is no where in scripture where this error is supported. you do not pick a verse out of context and form a doctrine with it. It is called HERESY.

The Amplified version of First Corinthians 14:14 shows us more clearly our relationship with the Holy Spirit in prayer: "For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit [by the Holy Spirit within me] prays ...." Again, when you pray in tongues, it is your spirit by the Holy Spirit within you praying. The Holy Spirit within gives you the utterance, and you speak it out of your spirit. You do the talking—He gives the utterance.

vooks:
Paraphrase translations are a refuge for the shallow believers who can't support their arguments

. Ok quote another verse that the Holy Spirit intercedes outside believers.

vooks:
You don't respect women. That's fatal primitivity

Am used to your folly. Did my post imply i do not respect your mother?

Blood speaking is symbolic sir. That's why it speaks BETTER things than that of Abel. Is Abel blood talking? What did it tell you last night? Blood of Jesus speaking in that verse is as literal as Abel's. Again I won't compete with you in hallucinations.

In three clear verses, Jesus role as an intercession in heaven is well presented. Paul wondered who bewitched Galatians before whom Christ was evidently set forth as crucified. You have a Galatians spiritual IQ

mbaemeka:


My problem with you is that you do not study before posting any verse. And after you have done so, you keep applying underhand tactics to force others to teach you but at the end of the day, you offer no gratitude or obeisance.

You claimed Jesus blood does not speak but that he himself is doing the interceding. I showed you a clear verse saying his blood speaks and then you accuse me of muddying ignorance when it is obvious who the ignorant one is.

I from the beginning showed you how that Christ's role as an intercessor is not the same as the Holy Spirit's role. Christ is an advocate for the WHOLE WORLD (christians and unbelievers) but the Holy Spirit is an advocate for ONLY believers. You insist they are the same but you can not show just one verse to prove it- not one. Instead you misquote John 17 and tell me that was Christ's role as an intercessor yet the same inconsistent you, claimed the role you are referring to is a new one that he took on after his ascension in HEAVEN. Now kindly tell us whether Christ had even died by John 17 and if you cannot tell us that, we can conclude again that you spoke under the same infantile impulse that we have been warning you about.

Please take your time to read John 16:26-27 and take note of the phrase "in that day". You would understand what I have been saying from the bible which is:

1. Christ's role as a mediator, propitiation, advocate and intercessor is for the whole world (sinners and saints) and his presence in heaven is the proof of his role. For sinners he saves them when they come to him and for saints he keeps them saved as they abide in him.

2. The Holy Spirit's role as an intercessor, advocate etc is different because he is a gift to the believers alone. But he lives inside the believers so that is where he works from, using their own hands and mouths and bodies in general to fulfil God's will for them.

In a nutshell, Jesus is for the whole world and when we accept him he gives us the gift i.e the Holy Spirit to live in us.

Who said these groans are ours?

mbaemeka:


The Holy Spirit does it through our own groans I.e with our own voices. The same way he uses our own hands to heal people or aid them financially. We are his outstretched arms and mouths. He speaks through us. That's why he could groan through Paul and other believers during their prayers and Paul said such groans are always in sync with the will of God.

shdemidemi:


Its called defending your words, if what you say can't stand scrutiny, it means they are wrong and if they are wrong you must debunk them. I noticed you did not give the full definition of groan and you also gave a definition of 'intercession' used in Rom 8:26 without reference.

that is the shortest definition of groaning. I wonder what u want again, u can give me your definition.

Intercession in that context means, enablement, ability to do something. Help, like i said.
If it is dictionary definition u are looking for, i will say 'sorry', cos i will nt do that. We must not try to explain God's word with human knowledge. We must follow the leading of the holyspirit. Human logic will fail.

You don't tell a man that he is behaving like a woman. That's insulting to women. It means he is misbehaving and women misbehave. So which women was trustman behaving like? Your wife or mother?
Think about your closest female relations before parading your Neanderthal testosterone

Bidam:
Am used to your folly. Did my post imply i do not respect your mother?

Bidam:
God bless you bro, atleast me and you na pally pally for this one apart from tithes.

so, u are still battling with the tithe scam? Good for you.

How many verses do I need to prove that Jesus wept? One John 11:35 sufficeth. Or how many instances of the miracle of turning water into wine do you need before you believe it?

Bidam:
. Ok quote another verse that the Holy Spirit intercedes outside believers.

Bidam:
Prayerless Christians that wants the Holy Spirit to pray for them. I just dey laff.

the holyspirit dnt pray for people, it only empowers them to pray. He helps them to pray nt the holyspirit doing the praying for them.

Ukutsgp:
that is the shortest definition of groaning. I wonder what u want again, u can give me your definition.

My friend, quit the dishonesty. What is the point, really. The source of your incomplete definition of groan came from the english dictionary.

groan
ɡrəʊn/
verb
1.
make a deep inarticulate sound conveying pain, despair, pleasure, etc.

Why you omitted the 'conveying pain' is beyond me.

Ukutsgp:
Intercession in that context means, enablement, ability to do something. Help, like i said.
If it is dictionary definition u are looking for, i will say 'sorry', cos i will nt do that. We must not try to explain God's word with human knowledge. We must follow the leading of the holyspirit. Human logic will fail.

No, don't give the dictionary meaning. Give the original greek meaning and how it was used in that verse.

vooks:
So Holy Spirit URGES FOR Bidam to pray? I thought I said no pidgin negro!

http://biblehub.com/topical/i/intercession.htm

You can see how shallow you are in your indefensible errors, you quoted a link without going through the whole content to understand how the Holy Spirit intercedes for the saints. This is from the said link you gave us.

"The Holy Spirit works upon our minds and hearts, enlightening and quickening, and thus determining our desires 'according to the will of God,' as our advocate within us".. Against the error of your statements that the Holy Spirit functions outside believers during intercession.

in-ter-sesh'-un (pagha`, "to make intercession"; originally "to strike upon," or "against"; then in a good sense, "to assail anyone with petitions," "to urge," and when on behalf of another, "to intercede" (Ruth 1:16 Jeremiah 7:16; Jeremiah 27:18 Job 21:15 Genesis 23:8 Isaiah 53:12 Jeremiah 36:25). A similar idea is found in enteuxis, used as "petition," and in the New Testament "intercession." The English word is derived from Latin intercedo, "to come between," which strangely has the somewhat opposed meanings of "obstruct" and "to interpose on behalf of" a person, and finally "to intercede." The growth of meaning in this word in the various languages is highly suggestive. In the Greek New Testament we find the word in 1 Timothy 2:1; 1 Timothy 4:5; entugchano, is also found in Romans 8:26-34):

Ukutsgp:
the holyspirit dnt pray for people[size=20pt], it only empowers them to pray[/size]. He helps them to pray nt the holyspirit doing the praying for them.

Where did you find this again?

Bidam:
The English word is derived from Latin intercedo, "to come between," which strangely has the somewhat opposed meanings of "obstruct" and [size=24pt]"to interpose on behalf of"[/size] a person, and finally "to intercede." The growth of meaning in this word in the various languages is highly suggestive. In the Greek New Testament we find the word in 1 Timothy 2:1; 1 Timothy 4:5; entugchano, is also found in Romans 8:26-34):[/i]

How do you have eyes and yet not see?

vooks:

Who said these groans are ours?

The bible clearly says so. Remember the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. He already knows God's will and thoughts but the Human being praying doesn't. So the Holy Spirit uses the human to pray (with the humans voice) because the human doesn't know how to pray as he OUGHT to. Not that he doesn't know how to pray at all.

Now Paul has told us that that prayer could be in articulate speech for e.g, tongues. And now in this verse he has shown that it could be inarticulate like groans (or even laughter) emphasis mine. All that matters is that whatever sounds are heard, they would always be interpreted to the will of God.

shdemidemi:


How do you have eyes and yet not see?

Nobody is debating WHAT he does. We are asking you HOW he does it and WHERE he does it from.

vooks:
You don't tell a man that he is behaving like a woman. That's insulting to women. It means he is misbehaving and women misbehave. So which women was trustman behaving like? Your wife or mother?
Think about your closest female relations before parading your Neanderthal testosterone

My attempts at sarcasm is also lost on you, my bad. You should give room for your mentee to stand for him/herself. Do i even know whether the said monicker is female? I might have guessed right you know.

Thank you mbaemeka,
Tongues I fully understand, but they are never called Spirit intercession; they are and are clearly depicted as OUR prayers. But here we have a verse where Holy Spirit is not once but twice said to be groaning for us. That's why I said if you are open minded or unbiased, you are least likely to conclude that Spirit intercession is praying in tongues. Just saying

mbaemeka:


The bible clearly says so. Remember the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. He already knows God's will and thoughts but the Human being praying doesn't. So the Holy Spirit uses the human to pray (with the humans voice) because the human doesn't know how to pray as he OUGHT to. Not that he doesn't know how to pray at all.

Now Paul has told us that that prayer could be in articulate speech for e.g, tongues. And now in this verse he has shown that it could be inarticulate like groans (or even laughter) emphasis mine. All that matters is that whatever sounds are heard, they would always be interpreted to the will of God.

shdemidemi:


How do you have eyes and yet not see?

Did you read everything or you just want to pick a word and run heretically with it as you do the scriptures. How does the Holy Spirit do it, outside or inside believers?

No problem bro, but sexist jokes and sarcasm are not cool

Bidam:
My attempts at sarcasm is also lost on you, my bad. You should give room for your mentee to stand for him/herself. Do i even know whether the said monicker is female? I might have guessed right you know.

vooks:
Blood speaking is symbolic sir. That's why it speaks BETTER things than that of Abel. Is Abel blood talking? What did it tell you last night? Blood of Jesus speaking in that verse is as literal as Abel's. Again I won't compete with you in hallucinations.

In three clear verses, Jesus role as an intercession in heaven is well presented. Paul wondered who bewitched Galatians before whom Christ was evidently set forth as crucified. You have a Galatians spiritual IQ

Truly the natural man cannot understand the things of the spirit.

God told Cain that his brother's blood was speaking to him. It is God who hears these sounds- not natural men. The blood of Abel kept asking for vengeance. Now Jesus' blood is better because it is asking for Mercy. Jesus blood is in heaven as the evidence that men can be saved and that saved men should remain saved. That's how he is interceding.

The Bible says he has appeared before God ONCE. He doesn't appear every time neither does he beg God for us. That's an insult. Jesus intercedes by his presence and his blood I.e when Satan wants to accuse a christian, Jesus presence and blood shows that Satan has no case. And when Satan wants to claim a sinner cannot be saved, Jesus presence and blood shows satan equally has no case. That's how he intercedes, mediates, advocates for ALL OF US who have come and who will come to him.

vooks:
Thank you mbaemeka,
Tongues I fully understand, but they are never called Spirit intercession; they are and are clearly depicted as OUR prayers. But here we have a verse where Holy Spirit is not once but twice said to be groaning for us. That's why I said if you are open minded or unbiased, you are least likely to conclude that Spirit intercession is praying in tongues. Just saying

He is groaning for us- we agree. What we asked is where is he groaning from and how? The very scriptures say he does it with our 'joint help'. He gives us what to say and we say it.

Bidam:
Did you read everything or you just want to pick a word and run heretically with it as you do the scriptures. How does the Holy Spirit do it, outside or inside believers?

The same way Jesus does it. Why do you think the Holy Spirit need me to speak before intercession takes place?