UyiIredia:


Could you please share some of these mysteries.

People close to me who have died and their actions before their death(including my brother). Words that they spoke etc. Some died in accidents, some died of sickness, some where killed by stray bullet, some just collapsed and died yet their actions and words ahead of the incident that killed them are so convincing that things are happening on the other side of life. Some of these people were good christians, some were not.

Uyi, these incidences are better witnessed than told. I cant even tell the stories well. Those who wants to believe the no-God crap can go ahead at their eternal detriment.

The one of death is just one part of the mysteries i ve seen in this life, there are other things too. Surely the no-God crap is not for people like me.

honourhim:


People close to me who have died and their actions before their death(including my brother). Words that they spoke etc. Some died in accidents, some died of sickness, some where killed by stray bullet, some just collapsed and died yet their actions and words ahead of the incident that killed them are so convincing that things are happening on the other side of life. Some of these people were good christians, some were not.

Uyi, these incidences are better witnessed than told. I cant even tell the stories well. Those who wants to believe the no-God crap can go ahead at their eternal detriment.

The one of death is just one part of the mysteries i ve seen in this life, there are other things too. Surely the no-God crap is not for people like me.

Mysteries = God exists.


Funny.

davien:
Apart from the fact that you're analogy of sumerian tablets as "mere baked clay" does not reflect my question to you i'll ask you this question....
Is dna a molecular code....abiding by the laws of chemistry or a code like a computer program obeying the various laws of information theory?
And is anything that could be said to be a code originate from a mind?

DNA is both. It follows chemical laws and laws of information theory. And codes ALWAYS come from mind. Natural processes don't make codes which (like emotions) are independent of. natural laws.

JackBizzle:



Mysteries = God exists.


Funny.

My submission is not open for debate because you were not there with me to witness what i'm saying. Your response shows you dont even understand what i said but you just want to display your usual no-God crap. Do i sound like someone begging you to believe me? Pls Use your time for other things. Thanks.

UyiIredia:


And I replied by pointing out how programmers for example need to be intelligent to make codes. You must be seeing double if you think premise two assumes God existence_it doesn't. Premise 2 is based on repeated observation of men making coded systems like phones and computers. Even in computers the more bulky or complex the code (or softwares) the more it can do. Also intelligent people are smarter at working with codes eg crossword puzzles with keys. I shouldn't be defending premise 2 because it is a fact I expect an educated person should know. Premise 2 doesn't even mention God but isolates intelligence as necessary to making coded systems (is systems based on a code)

As long as you include life among the coded systems you refer to, premise 2 is not a fact but a conclusion. The intelligence you refer to in your premise is man's intelligence, not God's, since you are trying to prove God. Man's intelligence is not responsible for the coded system on which life is based. You cannot therefore say that all coded systems require intelligence in order to be built, if it is only man's intelligence you speak of, and call it a fact or a good premise.

honourhim:


My submission is not open for debate because you were not their with me to witness what i'm saying. You response shows you dont even understand what i said but you just want to display your usual no-God crap. Use your time for other things. Thanks.

Too emotional...you are so emotional.

Calm down and comprehend.


You are using subjective means as hard evidence for your beliefs.


I do not need to be there to witness all the scary/weird things that scared you to fear God. Your posts reek of confusion

JackBizzle:



Too emotional...you are so emotional.

Calm down and comprehend.


You are using subjective means as hard evidence for your beliefs.


I do not need to be there to witness all the scary/weird things that scared you to fear God. Your posts reek of confusion

Its not compulsory that you ll understand me. Like i said, that post is not open to debate. Believe whatever you want.

honourhim:


Its not compulsory that you ll understand me. Like i said, that post is not open to debate. Believe whatever you want.

Who the hell do you think you are to say it is not open for debate?

You are on a public forum and you shouldnt expect nonsense to be given a free pass.

JackBizzle:



Who the hell do you think you are to say it is not open for debate?

You are on a public forum and you shouldnt expect nonsense to be given a free pass.

honourhim:



I think I may partly agree with what @sisterme posted in one thread sometime ago that those of them predestined for heaven will surely come back to God while those who are not predestined may or may not come back.

that means its not their fault then that they walked away from god

UyiIredia:


DNA is both. It follows chemical laws and laws of information theory. And codes ALWAYS come from mind. Natural processes don't make codes which (like emotions) are independent of. natural laws.

since all codes come from a mind to you....when a complex endogenous retrovirus codes dna to make copies of itself....does it have a mind or is a mind involved?

finofaya:


As long as you include life among the coded systems you refer to, premise 2 is not a fact but a conclusion. The intelligence you refer to in your premise is man's intelligence, not God's, since you are trying to prove God. Man's intelligence is not responsible for the coded system on which life is based. You cannot therefore say that all coded systems require intelligence in order to be built, if it is only man's intelligence you speak of, and call it a fact or a good premise.

I can say that because with intelligence (and proper tools) modifications can be made to the coded systems of living things. Genetic engineering has been a reality for some decades now. All coded systems are indicative of the work of an intelligence. Besides natural laws can never make codes because codes transcend natural laws.

For instance, the fact that the word 'bucket' refers to a physical bucket isn't physical. The word bucket as written is physical and so is the actual bucket but not the EQUATING of both. You can't put the meaning of bucket on a scale or measure its length etc. It is immaterial.

AfricanApple:
that means its not their fault then that they walked away from god

predestination eliminates free-will...everything according to predestination is scripted...

davien:
since all codes come from a mind to you....when a complex endogenous retrovirus codes dna to make copies of itself....does it have a mind or is a mind involved?

it originated from a mind. In fact these endogenous retroviruses can be rengineered some labs engage in research to be able modify the codes in such viruses. Unfortunately I can't post links because its been a while since I've visited the requisite sites.

UyiIredia:


it originated from a mind.

what exactly originates from a mind?! you said all codes come from minds...
so since viruses code,do viruses have minds?
Do not avoid the question...

In fact these endogenous retroviruses can be rengineered some labs engage in research to be able modify the codes in such viruses.

This is true...we modify codes of viruses...so when a human manipulates a virus a mind is clearly involved...what happens when a virus codes host dna itself naturally...is a mind present in the virus?

Unfortunately I can't post links because its been a while since I've visited the requisite sites.

Understood....now kindly answer my question...do not evade it..
Afterall you made a positive claim that all codes come from minds and then I have presented you with a question that when a virus codes...does it have a mind?

UyiIredia:


I can say that because with intelligence (and proper tools) modifications can be made to the coded systems of living things. Genetic engineering has been a reality for some decades now. All coded systems are indicative of the work of an intelligence. Besides natural laws can never make codes because codes transcend natural laws.

For instance, the fact that the word 'bucket' refers to a physical bucket isn't physical. The word bucket as written is physical and so is the actual bucket but not the EQUATING of both. You can't put the meaning of bucket on a scale or measure its length etc. It is immaterial.

Actually, you can't. That claim has no place in your proof.

davien:
what exactly originates from a mind?! you said all codes come from minds...
so since viruses code,do viruses have minds?
Do not avoid the question...
This is true...we modify codes of viruses...so when a human manipulates a virus a mind is clearly involved...what happens when a virus codes host dna itself naturally...is a mind present in the virus?
Understood....now kindly answer my question...do not evade it..
Afterall you made a positive claim that all codes come from minds and then I have presented you with a question that when a virus codes...does it have a mind?

There are codes that can make codes confirm this from Seun. This is what is the case in those endogenous retroviruses. However the viruses were made by God.

JackBizzle:



Mysteries = God exists.


Funny.

Not only some generic God, but a particular character God from a book. Can you imagine?

The invisible God who doesn't speak and leaves a book to be interpreted anyhow.

Weah96:


Not only some generic God, but a particular character God from a book. Can you imagine?

The invisible God who doesn't speak and leaves a book to be interpreted anyhow.

The fear of the unknown is what drives some to God

AfricanApple:
that means its not their fault then that they walked away from god

Forget about the nonsense blame game. We know all those their games.

UyiIredia:


There are codes that can make codes confirm this from Seun. This is what is the case in those endogenous retroviruses. However the viruses were made by God.

So a virus is a code?...made by "god"? :O
Your premise is that all codes originate from minds...
A virus is a being(living/non-living) that can hijack cells and code dna..
Therefore a virus has a mind...since a code can originate from it...
The above deduction though incorrect is derived from your logic that "all codes originate from minds"....this fallacy occurs when you make broad statements about reality to describe concise things...
Moreover....it is good we've arrived here so far.....now can you tell me how you know biological nucleic acids were made by a specific something you label "god"...

davien:
So a virus is a code?...made by "god"? :O
Your premise is that all codes originate from minds...
A virus is a being(living/non-living) that can hijack cells and code dna..
Therefore a virus has a mind...since a code can originate from it...
The above deduction though incorrect is derived from your logic that "all codes originate from minds"....this fallacy occurs when you make broad statements about reality to describe concise things...
Moreover....it is good we've arrived here so far.....now can you tell me how you know biological nucleic acids were made by a specific something you label "god"...

My premise is that all codes originate from minds not that codes have minds. That's your straw man of my premise. Softwares that make softwares eg Make en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Make_(software) don't have minds but they originated from minds. And the all codes we know of originate from minds is true. Again, there is ZERO evidence of natural systems making codes. But men do so repeatedly. And animals to a lesser extent etc.

UyiIredia:


My premise is that all codes originate from minds not that codes have minds. That's your straw man of my premise.

No straw man was used here.....your statement led to the conclusion...
The broad statement of "all codes originate from minds" is a fallacy because a virus codes but doesn't have a mind....telling me a virus is merely a code doesn't suffice when you said this earlier

Uyilredia :
Yes. Both genomes and codes in computers are the same

So how are viruses synonymous to genomes(codes) ....
Infact a substantial amount of your dna are laden with endogenous retroviral insertions from viruses....

Softwares that make softwares eg Make en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Make_(software) don't have minds but they originated from minds.

You must understand here that....your broad statement that "all codes originate from minds" started this....and now you are arguing against your own premise that codes can also make codes...
First statement;
All codes originate from minds.
Second;
There are codes that can make code.
Deduction;
How can all codes come from minds if codes can make other codes and it would not be from a mind...?

Codes can And the all codes we know of originate from minds is true.

Rather any coded system made by humans came from our mind...

Again, there is ZERO evidence of natural systems making codes.

Rather no known mechanism.... abiogenesis demonstrates that the building blocks of life can very much be done by natural systems..

But men do so repeatedly. And animals to a lesser extent etc.

correct.....because we are reverse engineering them to acquire knowledge to as how they originated...

Where "god" comes from is not "minds" but "mines" u see the "theory" or the "bible" in a "sense" "got there first" let me just mention this first " if u were the first one to ever dig a "hole" and extract material out there of ,then "you" would be the most "experienced" in the "extraction" process, so as in "how" to do it and of cause what to do with the "material" and how to "manipulate" the "material" and how to "fashion" the "material" in to "use", example "weapons" . So there for by having obtained this "information" "you" would be the "master" of "man" "made" objects of "all" and there for "man" himself ,for "it" takes "man" to "mine" and if u the "master" then u "master" "man" and there for been the "master" of the "practice" "prediction" comes easy for it would take this to do that and the "material" plays the "biggest" part for the "master" of the "material" by now with the "medical" procedures "mastered" from "mining" the "master" knows "man" so well inside out and out side in and thus the "theory" was "born" for the "master" of the "mines" prevails over the "mind" of those that don't matter and has put "matter" over your "mind" for "he" is the "master" mind of the "matter" and of "man" for "he" "profits" from "his" matter and "man" at the "same" time "man" and "matter"(material) go "hand" in "hand" the "master" has found that "man" "can't" live with out "it" and "it" can't "profit" with out "man" and then been the "master" of the "many" "mines" as in many "holes" as in "holy" the "master" also already knows and "predicted" what to do with the "hole" once "it" "was" of material now all "extracted" for "its" like a vineyard with a press at the back or is that at the bottom ,he knows there's no day or night there the gates don't need to be shut , he knows the sun or moon won't shine in "it" "it" is the "masters" temple the master has that of "his" that shall dwell in "it" they will receive water freely ,u will see "your" true "masters" face but this "material" face is of the "true" "master" and even "he" masters the "master of the mines"