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Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? - Foreign Affairs (1385) - Nairaland

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Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by agaugust: 4:23am On Nov 11, 2014
Patchesagain:


Did the whole world fight in the FIB?

Yes or no

Did South Africa fight alone in Congo DRC?

Yes or no?

Glory thief !
.
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by agaugust: 4:34am On Nov 11, 2014
ActivateKruger:


The Swingfire is almost 50 years old, it doesnt matter when you get it because its half a century old[/size]

Your Cobra will never see a minute of action against the SANDF, its useless technology - the gunner sits outside... sniper sniper sniper, LMG, LGM, Ratel, Ratel, Rooikat,Rooikat[/size]

Oliphants have infra-white, they can see through smoke.... they will put a HUGE hole in your mixbag machanised infantry [/size]

Ever head of the "scotched earth policy"? it when artillery and rockets are used to clear whatever infantry is hiding on the ground.... poor Nigerian army who will be spotted by SANDF UAVs then teared apart by the G5 and G6 super canons and Rooivalk rockets... Your ill-trained army will never fire a single AT gun.

......oh the SAAF Gripen will reign supreme on your useless trainer jets and Air Supremacy will be ours to hit any Nigerian target on the ground.

The Hollywood war movie script you wrote above is hilarious and I cannot stop laughing grin grin grin

LOL, you wrote a war story where only you was attacking, and your enemy was watching you as if his own hands are chained and padlocked.

@Mike.ZA used to right insane Soap Opera Drama stuff like that when he first joined this forum, it took a while to re-arrange his confused brain, but he is better educated by Nigerians now, so I advice you go borrow the Nigerians' war notebooks we gave him to read and cured his insaniity that got him the comical nick-name PAPA AJASCO grin grin grin
.

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Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Patchesagain: 5:15am On Nov 11, 2014
agaugust:


The official launch platform for Swingfire is those Stormer vehicles. It is only a dull South African brain that cannot mount an ATGM on a vehicle, even ISIS can do it.

Nigeria has Swingfire and the Stormer vehicle, completes the required combination.

Nigeria has not shown any of it's Swingfires in public, whatever way they mount it, they have it.

Swingfire does not need to be driven around to k.ill, and Egypt the strongest military in Africa still uses Swingfire till today 2014.

Same way South African navy Valour frigates still uses old Exocet MM40 block that has long ago being replaced by block 3.

If our Swingfires are ineffective, then your old generation Exocets are also ineffective . Equation balanced

.

No, you have not shown that you have the equipment to mount it on a stormer.

Egypt uses the Swingfire on mounted vehicals only - so yes it appears that it does have to be driven around to kill

It has replaced its man-portable systems with Milans and Javelins.

Exocet is still a viable technology and uses the correct seekers. Wire-guided ATGM's are obsolete.

Dude, dont come here with your voodoo logic

2 Likes

Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Patchesagain: 5:15am On Nov 11, 2014
agaugust:


Lies, Egypt makes Swingfire and still uses them, Egypt is a world power and strongest military in Africa 2014
.

England invented and produced the Swingfire.

They no longer use them.

The UK is a hyper-power. Egypt is a lowly regional power.

3 Likes

Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Patchesagain: 5:18am On Nov 11, 2014
agaugust:


Olodo, the Swingfire is named swing because it has special uncommon ability to swing around in circles and curves unlike your dumbo Ingwe that follows only a straight line laser light, or your own light turns around corners ? Fool, law of physics South African education cannot teach you...light travels in a straight line always....Olodo

The Swingfire will smoke out all your Ingwes and force you to waste the 3 missiles and lose them to smoke, then he will launch his own Swingfire because Ingwe on Ratel can only be reloaded when the Ratel occupants come outside to carry the missiles for reload, then they die by Swingfire along with their unlucky Ratels. PITY undecided PITY undecided PITY undecided
.

Yes, light travels in straight lines.

So if smoke obscures the target your gunner has nothing to shoot at. How can he swing your missile if he does not know where to swing it to?

Smoke defeats the Swingfire like it does the Ingwe.

1 Like

Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Patchesagain: 5:19am On Nov 11, 2014
agaugust:


Range is 7km max for Nigerian recoilless rifles


M40 Recoilless Rifle
Rcl106lat2.jpg
Greek infantry with an M40
Type Recoilless rifle
Place of origin United States
Service history
In service Mid 1950s–present
Used by See Users
Wars Vietnam War
Cambodian Civil War
Portuguese Colonial War
Indo-Pakistani War of 1971
Rhodesian Bush War
Falklands War[citation needed]
Iran–Iraq war
Libyan Civil War
Syrian Civil War
Production history
Manufacturer Watervliet Arsenal
Specifications
Weight 209.5 kg (462 lb)
Length 3.404 m (11 ft 2 in)
Height 1.12 m (3 ft 8 in)
Shell 106×607mmR (HEAT, HEP, HEAP, Canister)
Caliber 105 mm (4.1 in)
Recoil Recoilless
Carriage Tripod
Elevation -17° to +65° (between mount legs)
-17° to +27° (over mount leg)[1]
Traverse 360°
Muzzle velocity 503 m/s (1,650 ft/s)[1] (M344 HEAT)
Effective firing range 1,350 m (1,480 yd)
Maximum firing range 6,870 m (M346A1 HEP-T)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M40_recoilless_rifle#cite_note-2
.

Yes, and effective range is 1,3km.

You can only accurately and effectivly engage targets at 1,3km.

1 Like

Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Patchesagain: 5:19am On Nov 11, 2014
agaugust:


Did South Africa fight alone in Congo DRC?

Yes or no?

Glory thief !
.

UN FIB was composed of 3 Nations.

UN FIB defeated the M23

South Africa was the biggest contributor to the FIB.

3 Likes

Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Patchesagain: 5:21am On Nov 11, 2014
agaugust:


The Hollywood war movie script you wrote above is hilarious and I cannot stop laughing grin grin grin

LOL, you wrote a war story where only you was attacking, and your enemy was watching you as if his own hands are chained and padlocked.

@Mike.ZA used to right insane Soap Opera Drama stuff like that when he first joined this forum, it took a while to re-arrange his confused brain, but he is better educated by Nigerians now, so I advice you go borrow the Nigerians' war notebooks we gave him to read and cured his insaniity that got him the comical nick-name PAPA AJASCO grin grin grin
.

Nigerian army will be watching only, because CnC and mobility will be removed by superior fire-power, intelligence and mobility of the SANDF
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by DieVluit: 6:21am On Nov 11, 2014
http://leadership.ng/news/390009/boko-haram-captures-maiha-town-adamawa

Boko Haram Captures Maiha Town In Adamawa

BY MOHAMMED ISMAIL
— Nov 11, 2014 | 2 Comments

Less than 24 hours to President Goodluck Jonathan’s declaration of intent to vie for another term of office, Maiha town – the administrative headquarters of Maiha Local Government – has been overrun by Boko Haram insurgents.

Maiha town is about 25 kilometres from Mubi town that was captured about two weeks ago and about 200km from Yola, the state capital.

Even before the town fell under the control of the Boko Haram insurgents, it had been rendered a ghost of its self as commercial and social activities were paralyzed as a result of mass exodus of people from the town occasioned by annexation of Mubi.

[size=14pt]Fleeing residents of the captured town said they saw many soldiers running away from the area, with some of them begging the fleeing residents to give them a ride in their vehicles.
[/size]
“The insurgents started trooping into the town around 6pm and started firing shots into the area as soldiers, who had advanced to the area in their bid to recapture Mubi, started running away, allowing the insurgents to capture the town,” a resident, Mr John Paul, said.

Another fleeing resident, Mr Mahmud Garba [Note - this is a witness, people], said some of the fleeing soldiers had b[b]egged him to assist them with civilian clothes[/b] in order not to be spotted by the insurgents.

[size=14pt]“The fleeing soldiers asked us to give them our clothes so that they can camouflage and escape from the area safely as some of them had discarded their weapons in the bush. A lot of the discarded weapons are currently lying in the bush,” Garba said.[/size]

Garba noted that just like when they captured Mubi, the insurgents did not face any resistance from the Nigerian troops.

“The insurgents did not encounter any challenge as they stormed the town in APCs and Toyota Hilux vans, firing shots into different directions as they chanted songs of victory. Many of the residents fled into the bush. Some of them are feared killed by stray bullets. The insurgents also hoisted their flags in strategic places in the town,” Garba noted.

2 Likes

Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by mzilakazi(m): 6:56am On Nov 11, 2014
agaugust:
.
[size=16pt] Real Soldiers Shoot at Real Enemies....SANDF are Plastic Toy Soldiers[/size]

.


The man on that picture handled the rifle incorrectly, no wonder BH is giving them gas because of their lack of training of doing simple correct handling of rifle. A real soldier like me with an experience knows how to handle the rifle correctly.

2 Likes

Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by mzilakazi(m): 8:08am On Nov 11, 2014
People I think this discussion should come to an end. Troops have fled again as usual leaving the town to be captured without any resistance after their bid to recapture Mubi. As usual when they try to recapture something they only end up losing more. Civilians assert that fleeing soldiers were asking for a hike from their vehicles. Some were so frightened to the level of asking them private clothes to wear so that they can disguise in a bid to fool BH and they even discarded their weapons in the bush.

How could such cowards ever face SANDF? People I am closing the book " Nigeria does not have a military at all" Burundi will scatter Nigerian military to run in disarray and give them a knock for their money.




http://leadership.ng/news/390009/boko-haram-captures-maiha-town-adamawa

2 Likes

Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Nobody: 9:03am On Nov 11, 2014
agaugust:


Yes Lynxes are in storage. What are the other mystery helicopters in that article apart from the 6 Augustas?

Nigerian military secrecy can choke somebody o !

It is obvious the Navy has more helicopters than what is public knowledge.

Could you view the photos?

In the photo, there was a white helicopter retro-fitted for rescue operations. I didn't even know the Navy has a white helicopter.

Augusta LUH parts are fabricated in Nigeria, as confirmed by the naval tour guide, so not only MI-35 parts are made in Nigeria. Another new info.

If there were 6 helicopters on base, and a few more helicopters( 2-4) on surveillance patrol, when did the navy get additional helicopters?

Our military and secrecy though, you just never know or predict them.
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by EVarn(m): 9:09am On Nov 11, 2014
mzilakazi:



The man on that picture handled the rifle incorrectly, no wonder BH is giving them gas because of their lack of training of doing simple correct handling of rifle. A real soldier like me with an experience knows how to handle the rifle correctly.
a real soldier like you?,hahahaha....{i cant laugh}....oh God..my stomach....hahahaha..seriously,i have repeatedly told you;war isnt for pretty boys who joined the military because the uniform is fancy!,it isnt about bragging to your relatives that you have entered into an APC before,it isnt about pointing your toy gun into bushes and ponds.pray tell me,what is wrong with the soldiers grip?,catfish like you,this arent SANDF troops who tripped on their pants out of CAR.
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by EVarn(m): 9:24am On Nov 11, 2014
Henry120:


Boko-Haram isn't a single entity. They probably negotiated with the wrong cell.
i know,i'm just baffled about chads over-involvement in this,what is their link with boko haram?,i am very certain that they know more than they are saying...and you know as GEJ be,that guy mumu no be small,na so e go dey swallow spit till dem play am wayo finish,na tough person naija need to now,GEJ na democrat.
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by EVarn(m): 9:36am On Nov 11, 2014
agaugust:

Need to be sure it's true, but I know Chad now has oil and it's close to Nigerian side.
I think Nigeria will be arming up to subdue (without war I believe) Chad, Cameroon, and Niger Republique in the next 5 years.
Boko Haram will be decimated, it's only a matter of time.
Nigeria is already angry, and any President that does not show it can wipe out Boko Haram will lose presidential elections for sure, year 2011 elections proved Nigerians no longer vote for a party at presidential level, they vote for the individual contestant based on their perception of his ability to perform well in office
.
indeed.it is long overdue that we start waving around the red flag,i'm all for regional cooperation and african solidarity,but it is inconvenient the way we are surrounded by french puppets,france has too much hold on many african countries,perhap we should start preparing to contain them,before they become too bold.it amuses me that cameroon is already shaking its b.utt at us.
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by DieVluit: 9:40am On Nov 11, 2014
mzilakazi:
People I think this discussion should come to an end. Troops have fled again as usual leaving the town to be captured without any resistance after their bid to recapture Mubi. As usual when they try to recapture something they only end up losing more. Civilians assert that fleeing soldiers were asking for a hike from their vehicles. Some were so frightened to the level of asking them private clothes to wear so that they can disguise in a bid to fool BH and they even discarded their weapons in the bush.

How could such cowards ever face SANDF? People I am closing the book " Nigeria does not have a military at all" Burundi will scatter Nigerian military to run in disarray and give them a knock for their money.




http://leadership.ng/news/390009/boko-haram-captures-maiha-town-adamawa

lol true story, bosssssss
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by mzilakazi(m): 9:46am On Nov 11, 2014
EVarn:
a real soldier like you?,hahahaha....{i cant laugh}....oh God..my stomach....hahahaha..seriously,i have repeatedly told you;war isnt for pretty boys who joined the military because the uniform is fancy!,it isnt about bragging to your relatives that you have entered into an APC before,it isnt about pointing your toy gun into bushes and ponds.pray tell me,what is wrong with the soldiers grip?,catfish like you,this arent SANDF troops who tripped on their pants out of CAR.


CAR which is thousands of kilometres away from SA has witnessed that SANDF with only limited weapons can still hold on to their ground without fear. The people of CAR witnessed fire they never saw before. Our comrades in arms with only limited firepower which was imposed on them by the French because their mission was not peacekeeping but to train the national defence by offering them military skills, could by no doubts suppress the insurgents to the level of raising a white flag in a bid of negotiating for cease fire. The insurgents could be hit from far by MGLs and many of them gave up their ghosts screaming hard for their mothers. The only thing that you could hear was a cry from a young boy who ran out of ammunition because rebels could only afford to give them single magazine loaded with a mere 5-6 rounds.

I know you will ask me about equipments left behind, not even weapons but vehicles which were used for the mission. The government of SA could not bother to leave such equipment behind because everything that was in there was already bargained for and would have been left behind even after the mission was completed. The equipment were already removed from SANDF inventory and so we had nothing to lose. The only objects that were to be airlifted back to the country after the parliament took that decision were military personnel and their weapons. All tents, geckos et al were to be left behind in accordance with what the parliament has resolved.

1 Like

Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by ActivateKruger: 9:51am On Nov 11, 2014
agaugust:


Olodo, the Swingfire is named swing because it has special uncommon ability to swing around in circles and curves unlike your dumbo Ingwe that follows only a straight line laser light, or your own light turns around corners ? Fool, law of physics South African education cannot teach you...light travels in a straight line always....Olodo

The Swingfire will smoke out all your Ingwes and force you to waste the 3 missiles and lose them to smoke, then he will launch his own Swingfire because Ingwe on Ratel can only be reloaded when the Ratel occupants come outside to carry the missiles for reload, then they die by Swingfire along with their unlucky Ratels. PITY undecided PITY undecided PITY undecided
.


Buhahahaha

A Ratel took out 3 Cuban tanks in a single morning with Ingwes, do you think the Cuban tanks didn't have smoke? Smoke or no smoke, the Ingwe will chow your Scorpion obsolete tanks with easy.
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Thiza: 9:56am On Nov 11, 2014
A new video was released yesterday by the Boko Haram, showing its leader, Abubakar Shekau, delivering a sermon during Friday prayers.

Shekau in the video appears in clothes typically worn by Imams (clerics that lead Muslims during prayers) unlike in previous videos where he appeared wearing battle wears.

He is shown in a mosque in a light blue gown (babbar Riga) with a garb (Alkyabba on top) a cap (popularly known as Zanna Bukar) which is half covered with a turban.

In the sermon, apparently referring to Gwoza town in Borno State, Shekau speaks for about 20 minutes in Arabic in the 44 minute-video where he emphasises his "firm authority" over what he calls the "Islamic caliphate" and reiterates that there is no ceasefire agreement with the Nigerian government.

Shekau also pays allegiance to jihadists in other parts of the world, stressing that his caliphate has come to stay.

He said: "To all Muslims and all devout Mujahideen, my esteemed brethren, Allah has bestowed on us Islamic victory, and we pray to Allah to give us the opportunity to fight infidels on the face of the earth. We fight and kill whoever opposes what the prophet brought. My brethren in Islam, we are living in Islamic Caliphate. We send our greetings to our brethren living in the Islamic caliphates-the caliphates in Iraq and Syria.

"My brethren in Islam, wherever you may be, in Afghanistan, in Pakistan, in Azerbaijan, in Shishan, in blessed Yemen, in Somalia - to everyone living in Islamic caliphates, we convey our greetings at this moment. Look at this Nigeria, liars. Look at these tyrants. They are sabotaging Islam. We have indeed established an Islamic Caliphate. This is an amazing thing. Victory from Allah!

"We don't call ourselves Boko Haram. We are Jama'atu Ahlissunnah Lidda'awati Wal Jihad.

"If Allah decides I die today, by Allah I will die." After the first part if the sermon, worshippers are shown outside, chanting Allahu Akbar. His fighters are later shown celebrating with armoured personnel vehicles.
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by mzilakazi(m): 9:59am On Nov 11, 2014
Nigeria blame America for their failure to defeat BH. They blame it all on America as if it is only where sophisticated weapons can be procured. America has reasons for denying their association with Nigerian military due to their history of abusing human rights of suspects of BH. Nigeria cannot deny that their military is carrying out summary executions on innocent people, since it also has happened now of late.


http://www.premiumtimesng.com/news/headlines/170879-nigeria-blasts-america-says-u-s-has-let-nigeria-down-in-war-against-boko-haram.html
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Thiza: 10:08am On Nov 11, 2014
PROUDLY DEFENDERS OF SOUTH AFRICA....NOT SHORT AND LONG DISTANCE RUNNERS BEEN CHASED BY BOKO HARAM

3 Likes

Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by ActivateKruger: 10:09am On Nov 11, 2014
Nigerian military is a useless military, they're at their best but they can't hold a line... soldiers throwing weapons away and begging civilians for clothes

Useless military, in fact its an insult to soldiers that those guys once called themselves soldiers. Nxa!

1 Like

Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by EVarn(m): 10:17am On Nov 11, 2014
mzilakazi:

CAR which is thousands of kilometres away from SA has witnessed that SANDF with only limited weapons can still hold on to their ground without fear.... ..Our comrades in arms with only limited firepower which was imposed on them by the French.... to train the national defence by offering them military skills, could by no doubts suppress the insurgents to the level of raising a white flag in a bid of negotiating for cease fire. The insurgents could be hit from far by MGLs....

....I know you will ask me about equipments left behind, not even weapons but vehicles which were used for the mission.
*scoff*,so you are now justifying how you ran out of CAR,leaving behind caches of weapon in your haste?,spare me lies about how you performed better than child rebels,thing is,rebels sent you scampering,arent you supposed to cover your face in shame?.and stop saying "comrades in arms",it makes me crack up..hahaha....as if you have ever smelt a gun before!.
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by Thiza: 10:24am On Nov 11, 2014
SANDF ANTI AIRCRAFT

Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by ActivateKruger: 10:27am On Nov 11, 2014
EVarn:
*scoff*,so you are now justifying how you ran out of CAR,leaving behind caches of weapon in your haste?,spare me lies about how you performed better than child rebels,thing is,rebels sent you scampering,arent you supposed to cover your face in shame?.and stop saying "comrades in arms",it makes me crack up..hahaha....as if you have ever smelt a gun before!.

CAR? what's that? we killed 600 of those with a lost of 13 soldiers without any support.

In DRC we killed the M23 out of existence without losing a soldier, not even 1.


All those are in a foreign country - while you fail to stand a line against Quran smoking idiots in YOUR OWN COUNTRY
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by ActivateKruger: 10:29am On Nov 11, 2014
Thiza:
SANDF ANTI AIRCRAFT

WHERE did you get that second picture (control room)
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by ActivateKruger: 10:38am On Nov 11, 2014
agaugust:


The Hollywood war movie script you wrote above is hilarious and I cannot stop laughing grin grin grin

LOL, you wrote a war story where only you was attacking, and your enemy was watching you as if his own hands are chained and padlocked.

@Mike.ZA used to right insane Soap Opera Drama stuff like that when he first joined this forum, it took a while to re-arrange his confused brain, but he is better educated by Nigerians now, so I advice you go borrow the Nigerians' war notebooks we gave him to read and cured his insaniity that got him the comical nick-name PAPA AJASCO grin grin grin
.


I don't see you countering my post with facts ... it simply means you're out as usual
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by mzilakazi(m): 10:39am On Nov 11, 2014
EVarn:
a real soldier like you?,hahahaha....{i cant laugh}....oh God..my stomach....hahahaha..seriously,i have repeatedly told you;war isnt for pretty boys who joined the military because the uniform is fancy!,it isnt about bragging to your relatives that you have entered into an APC before,it isnt about pointing your toy gun into bushes and ponds.pray tell me,what is wrong with the soldiers grip?,catfish like you,this arent SANDF troops who tripped on their pants out of CAR.



[b]The correct handling of the rifle is that the butt should be locked firmly on to the shoulder and the other hand should be on the hand grip instead of idling on the magazine. Your rifle should be under your full control and that way you won't miss your target easily. The way your fellow soldier is handling his rifle is very unprofessional and very disappointing and above all his posture looks amateurish since body has to bend slightly forward to show that he is in control of his rifle and not the other way around. Many soldiers in Africa are poorly trained in musketry and they carry their weapons like rebels.


SANDF might look messed up before your eyes, but one thing about them is that their training in respect of weapon handling is very advanced. They teach you about the correct handling of weapons in a rude manner without mercy and they take you into a real battle exercise using that weapon over and over until it tire you up. They will repeat this exercise until they see a real soldier in you who can handle weapons correctly. Correct handling of weapons is very important since it will produce desired results and also boost the weapon to large extent of functioning effectively. Poor handling of weapons, like what that Nigerian soldier portrayed is dangerous and will cause unnecessary stoppages in between, sometimes causes unlocking of magazine during fierce heat up battle.[/b]

2 Likes

Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by ActivateKruger: 10:55am On Nov 11, 2014
Notice how the SANDF handles their rifles

#RealMilitarySANDF

2 Likes

Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by patches689: 10:58am On Nov 11, 2014
Thiza:
SANDF ANTI AIRCRAFT

I have seen it before on Janes I think

It's a command module for the Skysheild system
Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by DieVluit: 11:14am On Nov 11, 2014
mzilakazi:
Nigeria blame America for their failure to defeat BH. They blame it all on America as if it is only where sophisticated weapons can be procured. America has reasons for denying their association with Nigerian military due to their history of abusing human rights of suspects of BH. Nigeria cannot deny that their military is carrying out summary executions on innocent people, since it also has happened now of late.


http://www.premiumtimesng.com/news/headlines/170879-nigeria-blasts-america-says-u-s-has-let-nigeria-down-in-war-against-boko-haram.html

They blame what?

3 Likes

Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by EVarn(m): 11:22am On Nov 11, 2014
mzilakazi:

The correct handling of the rifle is that the butt should be locked firmly on to the shoulder and the other hand should be on the hand grip instead of idling on the magazine.The way your fellow soldier is handling his rifle is very unprofessional and very disappointing and above all his posture...
SANDF might look messed up before your eyes, but one thing about them is that their training..
it depends on the type of gun love,in some rifles,locking the butt on your shoulder could shatter it due to recoil,you need to position such rifles slightly below your should{directly against the hollow of the armpit},and also there are some rifles which you can only position with its butt beside the shoulder,away from the arm joint.the SANDF is half filled with crooked gnarled old men{that are older than gandalf} who will probably keel over when they hear the sound of gunshot,and half filled with young modelling boys who love their pretty uniforms than their country.

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