vooks:
You need to watch this to understand how miracles are manufactured/staged and the gullible fooled


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8vhmb_bX1E

One would do well to read James Randi an atheist's expose on these back in the eighties

vooks:
Let's get this straight;
1. A man shows up at Joagbaje's church and testifies of his prior visit where prayers were made for him and how he was healed of HIV and his negative status confirmed in three hospitals

2. The man claims to be another man being prayed for for the same disease in the same church

3. The man being prayed for is said to be HIV+ and he was healed

4. The man claiming to have been healed turns out to be HIV+

Why would a HIV+ man give false testimony of being healed and how the same was confirmed by three separate hospital tests?
This man is an ACCOMPLICE; they had his spectacular testimony and they spiced it with the prayers. But since no prayers were offered, they used the best match ( a dead guy by now otherwise he'd have gone back to testify!) for nostalgia

PS: joagbaje can somewhat perceive/discern HIV leaving the sick guy's body but can't discern the same HIV inside the man in front of him purporting to have been healed?

PastorAIO:
this requires a thread of its own.

nannymcphee:
Can someone pls give me a rundown of what's really happening here

My observations/questions

1. The YouTube video was probably compressed so one might understand the need to verify the identity of the testifier(compression-video quality was compromised)

[size=15pt]BUT[/size]

the master copy will be clear as heaven, proper scrutiny would be applied, how then can you mix up someone who testified & the insert video of when he was being prayed for?

3. Why send a video to someone asking him, if he is the one in the video?(you yourself u nor know who you pray for again?)

2. Without physical evidence of a medical report, why take Jeff's word for it & why was proper investigation not done, before publishing it to the whole world

3.can someone pls explain why the medical report shown here is having 8/11/2014?

Is that a new test was performed & the guy is still negative?

4. That 500k must be paid o


I once mistakenly wrote 8yrs instead of 18yrs & I was sent to the gallows by Gombs

I'm Surprised to see him speak here with no shame or remorse!!(I have once asked for his age & I ask again)



If you could say the above to me, for a mere typographical error(8yrs instead of 18yr)

Pls what do you have to say to Joagbaje?

honeychild:
I think Sir John is just being nice to Joagbaje joor. How can anyone say Joagbaje was deceived by Jeff?

Why will Jeff, a total stranger, walk into Joagbaje's church, to give a false testimony of being healed? What is in it for him?

Joagbaje never met him before. Never prayed for him before. But by himself he just walked into church to claim false identity. They even asked him if he was the one being prayed for, he said yes. Why on earth will he do that?

Abegi. Joagbaje paid Jeff to give false testimony as usual. He threw down the challenge believing that nobody will follow it up. He didn't know that Sir John our very own master detective will thoroughly investigate.

Joagbaje this is the second time you have been exposed as a fraud. The other time, you said you healed someone of blindness. Upon investigation it was discovered that the woman was never blind, but only had "peppery sensation" in her eye. Now you paraded an AIDS victim you cured, only for it to turn out that you never even prayed for the guy.

Please make out Sir John's cheque for 500k jare. Two weeks of tithes, thanksgiving and offering should cover it

nannymcphee:
Can someone pls give me a rundown of what's really happening here

My observations/questions

1. The YouTube video was probably compressed so one might understand the need to verify the identity of the testifier(compression-video quality was compromised)

[size=15pt]BUT[/size]

the master copy will be clear as heaven, proper scrutiny would be applied, how then can you mix up someone who testified & the insert video of when he was being prayed for?

3. Why send a video to someone asking him, if he is the one in the video?(you yourself u nor know who you pray for again?)

2. Without physical evidence of a medical report, why take Jeff's word for it & why was proper investigation not done, before publishing it to the whole world

3.can someone pls explain why the medical report shown here is having 8/11/2014?

Is that a new test was performed & the guy is still negative?

4. That 500k must be paid o


I once mistakenly wrote 8yrs instead of 18yrs & I was sent to the gallows by Gombs

I'm Surprised to see him speak here with no shame or remorse!!(I have once asked for his age & I ask again)



If you could say the above to me, for a mere typographical error(8yrs instead of 18yr)

Pls what do you have to say to Joagbaje?

honeychild:


Joagbaje this is the second time you have been exposed as a fraud. The other time, you said you healed someone of blindness. Upon investigation it was discovered that the woman was never blind, but only had "peppery sensation" in her eye. Now you paraded an AIDS victim you cured, only for it to turn out that you never even prayed for the guy.

Please make out Sir John's cheque for 500k jare. Two weeks of tithes, thanksgiving and offering should cover it

Topgainer:


I have read Pastor J.O response and I don't think this investigation will be complete without getting to know why Mr Jeff came to testify to having been cured of HIV when he was not even prayed for, there were no verifiable evidence that he was a known HIV carrier, the said witnesses (girl friend or close acquaintance ) are nowhere in short yet he had agreed to his testimony been shared to the World

A million dollar question is who hired Mr.Jeff to pose as healed of HIV in that video?

In all fairness to Joe Agbaje, he may not be aware that some fans go extra length to project the image of their lords, was it by mere coercion that somebody will leave his house and go to a church to pose as testifier for the fun of it

SirJohn:


Jeff was a member of a satellite church under Joagbaje.
He had a girlfriend at that time and they were planning on getting married; somewhere along the line, he found out he was HIV positive and he told his fiancee. She requested that they both go for a test he agreed and the result still turned out positive for Jeff but negative for the fiancee (this was at Glory Land Inri Medical Centre Yenogoa). He later went to the FMC and still tested positive.

From what I gather, the pastor (not Joagbaje) was aware of this situation but encouraged them to go ahead with wedding plans if they so choose (I don't know if this is a Christ Embassy policy). Well, they decided to go ahead and were even doing some traditional rites.
For some reasons still unclear to me, the relationship hit the rocks although Jeff told me it wasn't because of his HIV status. He gave several worrying stories about her and even labelled her a witch. I then asked if I could have her contact to which he replied saying he no longer has them. At this point, I had to conclude that whatever happened between them was very serious.

At this time, Jeff said he had tried going on traditional medicine and even went to TB Joshua for cure but his condition remained.
When I quizzed him how he thinks he got HIV, his reply was nothing short of shocking; he said he got HIV because he didn't pay his firstfruits that year (How damaging some doctrines can be).
Well he heard of the program organized by his main church (Joagbajes church) and his pastor encouraged him to go there.

So why did Jeff claim to have been healed? ? ? ?

Its either of two things for me, but firstly I am ruling out Joagbajes complicity in the mess even though I still find him wanting for not taking responsibility

First, I think Jeff did what is commonly obtainable in WOF circles where people believe in the name it and claim it fallacy or should I say 'Fake it till you make it'. So it was not impossible that he was simply pushing his faith just as he has been taught. In that case, Joagbaje became a victim of his own belief.

Secondly, I feel Jeff wanted to save face since he had fallen out with his fiancee in a messy break up. He knew that since his ex knew about his status and they were not in good terms, she could spill the beans so the sharp guy had to cook up a healing testimony which he laced with such audacious mendacity.

In all, I believe lessons have been learnt

paulGrundy:


Ok! Now I think am getting you.

Yooguyz 8:13am On Dec 23, 2012

I tell you its real mark 16:15 works. I went out on outreach last week and we meet this guy who said he had cancer and wanted us to pray 4 his healing he said that infact he was about to leave 4 his routine check up i was d one leading the group so we agreed on prayed i practised what i read in Mark16:15. When we prayed he said he felt nothing but i told him to have faith..(my faith isnt very ströng i must admit) just today he called me i didnt know how he got my number and i had forgot about him.he told me after that day we prayed i began to feel better and symtoms were disappering a mind told him to go to 2 different clinics for test and results showd he was cancer free..infact we met this evening and he showed me his own doctors report which showed he was free..aparently the shocked doctor conducted a test on him.he was so excited..anyone who has had similar experience please share

joagbaje
I had series of miracles wrought in the name of Jesus . One was the case of leg ulcer for more than a year , doctors gave up on him. I just stretched my hand over the wet leg . I rebuked the spirit of ulcer to come out and pronounced him healed . Instantly the pain stopped but no physical changes yet. But after about a week , everything dried and he was wearing shoes . Jesus still does his things through his saints only if we have enough boldness to take the word for what it says and act on it.

Candour:




Suddenly, you can no longer laugh as you used to do with your yooguyz moniker? https://www.nairaland.com/193649/truth-christ-embassy-healing-school/74#28008802

paulGrundy:



Yes you are right. But remember that you cannot get true information about JW's from JW's. Information maybe extreme right sided. Reminds me of my school days, when we were asked to write an essay about our selves, I wrote that I was Queen Elizabeths cousin and that I spent the holiday at Great britain. [size=14pt]Hehehe[/size]

Yooguyz:
[size=14pt]hehehe[/size]....lol...hahahaha. It is paining you abi! It pained you that someone got healed by God's power! Wel dis is small u havent seen anything yet! I only pray that the scale falls off your eyes! Who knows you may be the athiest i will be saved in NL who knows?

WinsomeX:
A lot of lessons can be garnered from this rather unfortunate incidence that has caused Jogbaje, Christ Embassy and the whole Word of Faith movement great embarrassment. But before we look at these closely, I want to ask Joagbaje to do the honorable thing: to pay SirJohn the half a million naira he promised to give anyone who could prove that "miracle" false. SirJohn has done this and he deserves his money. I will make the second conclusion after my submission below.

The discussions among Christians on nl has swayed essentially BTW to opinions: one of them is btw the Word of Faith, WoF, enthusiasts and those who advocate a relatively orthodox sort of Christian faith. The WoF crew advocate a lot of outlandish extra biblical positions, one of them being that Christians can performs signs and wonders in the same manner and frequency as the first century apostles. We on the hand do not believe this. We think that God can carry out miracles when it pleases him under his sovereign grace but our responsibility today is not pursuing miracles but preaching gospel truth, encouraging holy living among Christians and living in a responsible way as a Christians that will include working hard to make your money, taking responsible steps to safe guard our health and where that fails, we take advantage of modern medicine - a blessing from God anyway. We also insist that the WOF crew are mostly charlatans taking advantage of poor, ignorant and weak people. We think this is extremely deceitful and will earn God's wrath someday.

The debate BTW these two camps has always raged on nl but it took a new turn with the making of the Word of Faith thread by trustman, DrummaBoy and BabaGnoni. At about that time I also restored the SirJohn 2008 thread on the Christ Embassy fake healing school. That thread is what has led to Joagbaje's ill fated challenge.

As Jo' considers paying up, it is time for leading WoF people to consider their beliefs and determine if indeed they are in the Lord. It's not a matter of fake miracles anymore, it's a matter of whether these people are truly Christians. There is no need coming here to debate this, just there in the corner of your heart, check and see if you are truly a Christian or you are headed to a Christless grave.

This challenge is to others too: atheists, agnostics, satanists, doubters, etc - many gloating of Jo' here: has your belief been based on flimsy physical things that can be seen or on a sound living faith in Christ? This alone can guarantee a safe eternal destiny.

I commend SirJohn for a job well done and I plead with all genuine Christians not to rub this issue on Jo and others but to again point them away from a faith that cannot save to the Living faith in Christ Jesus. A gospel of health, wealth, and miracles is not the gospel of Jesus and cannot produce genuine Christians.

LambanoPeace:


This bold should be archived. The underlined....hmmm, Gombs must have caused you so much pain, you had to archive the post. I wonder the day Gombs would make an error on Nairaland, he'd be skewed in the most ruthless of ways by alot of fellas here

He's got alot of fellas here ballistic. But was that why you gave us your age too? So that he can give his?

Anyways, back to the thread, I find nothing convicting Joagbaje of fraud, his only crime was being too trustful. His 'goodility' was taken advantage of. It all works for good, he's learnt a thing or two.

SirJohn, I must say thank you for letting us learn a thing or two, you said you are not here to ridicule Jo, and you were true to your words, others however shows their long bile for Joagbaje. Much respect for your composure.

Gombs, ignore nannymcphee, be careful sha, the day she'd get you for an error eh?

LambanoPeace:



This bold should be archived. The underlined....hmmm, Gombs must have caused you so much pain, you had to archive the post. I wonder the day Gombs would make an error on Nairaland, he'd be skewed in the most ruthless of ways by alot of fellas here

He's got alot of fellas here ballistic. But was that why you gave us your age too? So that he can give his?

Anyways, back to the thread, I find nothing convicting Joagbaje of fraud, his only crime was being too trustful. His 'goodility' was taken advantage of. It all works for good, he's learnt a thing or two.

SirJohn, I must say thank you for letting us learn a thing or two, you said you are not here to ridicule Jo, and you were true to your words, others however shows their long bile for Joagbaje. Much respect for your composure.

Gombs, ignore nannymcphee, be careful sha, the day she'd get you for an error eh?

Ukutsgp:
u see what all his boasting has landed him? this will be a lesson to some others in this forum. meanwhile let me continue reading. i'm really enjoying this. let me switch off everything to concentrate very well. no watching of cable this night. tv and all other electronic appliances switch off. let me get to business. i'm pitching my tent on this thread this night.

SirJohn:


Jeff was a member of a satellite church under Joagbaje.
he found out he was HIV positive and he told his fiancee. (this was at Glory Land Inri Medical Centre Yenogoa). He later went to the FMC and still tested positive.

From what I gather, the pastor (not Joagbaje) was aware of this situation but encouraged them to go ahead with wedding plans if they so choose (I don't know if this is a Christ Embassy policy)

At this time, Jeff said he had tried going on traditional medicine and even went to TB Joshua for cure but his condition remained.


So why did Jeff claim to have been healed? ? ? ?

Joagbaje became a victim of his own belief.

Secondly, I feel Jeff wanted to save face since he had fallen out with his fiancee in a messy break up.

so the sharp guy had to cook up a healing testimony which he laced with such audacious mendacity.

In all, I believe lessons have been learnt

nannymcphee:


what is wrong with you?
Whats with you & the word archive?
did you suddenly stumble upon the word & you don't want to forget, hence the frequent usage?
How old are you?
I'm tempted to insult you but I won't cave in

I made a typo(8yr instead of 18yrs), Gombs proceeded to tell me I have lost my INTEGRITY & told me that " Writing is the most expensive form of communication, and the least forgiving"

So what does he have to say of Joagbaje who is being accused of fraud & here you are telling him to ignore me!!

christemmbassey:
another shameless hypocrite,. SMH

LambanoPeace:


What's with you and age? You ask everyone how old they are... Yes, I asked him to ignore you, if you don't like the idea, then shut it. If you wanna insult me, knock yourself out, you've been drinking the wrong kind of tea lately anyway.

Shhhhhst...Gombs got you real bad, didn't he? He even gave you a memory verse

Topgainer:


I have read Pastor J.O response and I don't think this investigation will be complete without getting to know why Mr Jeff came to testify to having been cured of HIV when he was not even prayed for, there were no verifiable evidence that he was a known HIV carrier, the said witnesses (girl friend or close acquaintance ) are nowhere in short yet he had agreed to his testimony been shared to the World

A million dollar question is who hired Mr.Jeff to pose as healed of HIV in that video?

In all fairness to Joe Agbaje, he may not be aware that some fans go extra length to project the image of their lords, was it by mere coercion that somebody will leave his house and go to a church to pose as testifier for the fun of it

nannymcphee:


I ask of age because the answer will determine my response!! If you're a minor I'll stop disturbing myself & take it that juvenile delinquency is at work

But if you're of age & you still reason & talk this way, well I leave you to Jesus


So of all I said all you could get from it was how(your partner in crime) gave me a tough time

You left the main matter & held on to something inconsequential

Pls don't bother to quote me

I'll leave you with this verse

1corith13:11


When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things


Pls do the needful!!!!!

Boss13:


Hmm when I decided to go hard on Joagbaje, a few folks said I should slow it down but his gangs would ridicule the day light out of you. Why should the same treatment not carried out on them.

shdemidemi:


Conscience! ha, Gombs traded that for prosperity long time ago.

nannymcphee:


I ask of age because the answer will determine my response!! If you're a minor I'll stop disturbing myself & take it that juvenile delinquency is at work

But if you're of age & you still reason & talk this way, well I leave you to Jesus


So of all I said all you could get from it was how(your partner in crime) gave me a tough time

You left the main matter & held on to something inconsequential

Pls don't bother to quote me

I'll leave you with this verse

1corith13:11

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things


Pls do the needful!!!!!

trustman:
Joagbaje was very emphatic, one can even say too emphatic, about this case. That posture should ordinarily mean that he was very sure of his position. Offering half a million Naira would appear to any observer that he was absolutely confident of his claim. A person has to be completely sure to have gone that far. 

However, given the turn of events it is obvious that Joagbaje not only failed to  
" test the spirits to see whether they are from God" but may himself now be classified among the " many false prophets (that) have gone out into the world." By this revelation ALL his other claims, and even his church's, are now QUESTIONABLE. 

SirJohn has been able to prove that this guy wasn't healed of HIV. That was the challenge. Not if joagbaje was deceived. Not anything else. Will Joagbaje keep his own side of the bargain? That is the 'common sense' thing to do. I don't seem to have seen him respond to SirJohn's simple questions. Is it a question of 'silence means consent' or that of tactical withdrawal to 'rearm'? I see some 'suggestions' being offered to Joagbaje by some who think "The only clear thing here is folks blowing stuffs out of proportions.". Really!! Does the word 'INTEGRITY' mean anything to these guys?

The bigger issue now is really this: will they learn from this or simply attribute it to the devil's work and continue to peddle their trade? The lives of many other people are at stake.