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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked (53433 Views)
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Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by vooks: 1:02pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
If you don't aks for it to be done, what happens? shdemidemi: |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by shdemidemi(m): 1:09pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
vooks: It will be done anyway... whether I ask or not. My request is a way of communicating with my God. I have explained this bit, I don't know how else you want to hear it. If you leave me to pray naturally, I will never pray for pain. But if it is through my pain that God will be glorified, I completely embrace it. Jesus asked for the will of God to be done... The will of God was for him to be slaughtered. Today, I know the death of Jesus was good because it saved humanity from damnation. |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by dorox(m): 1:09pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
vooks:shdemidemi's view of prayer is more consistent with what you and I observe daily in the lives of christians. How many time have you seen believers with a mountain of faith ask God for one one goody or the other without getting anything? If indeed you are right, christians would have less of everyday problems compared to people of other faith and no faith. But in truth, they have as much monetary worries as anyone else; the surfer broken marriages as much as anyone else; they surfer untimely death as much as anyone else. So statistically, they are not better off than anyone else, which would be surprising if not for the fact that the treasure promised to believers by Jesus are of the heavenly kind and not physical. 6 Likes |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by vooks: 1:13pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
So, what's the point of asking? Just to hear my own voice? shdemidemi: |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by shdemidemi(m): 1:14pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
@ dorox That is someone thinking and not religious folks doing a disservice to christianity. They lock up their brain as long as a man claims to be a pastor or a G.O. 2 Likes |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by honeychild(f): 1:14pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
@vooks On the contrary what shemidemi has been saying makes so much sense. That's the kind of Christianity that is balanced and breeds strong personalities who can withstand trials without loosing faith. Bidam and Joagbaje's brand of Christianity breeds people like frustratedman who have a small set back and start to curse God....or the other clown that failed JAMB and became an atheist. 4 Likes |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by shdemidemi(m): 1:17pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by vooks: 1:20pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
Why then do you aks? shdemidemi: |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by Nobody: 1:25pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
honeychild:Hmmn, you think so? maybe your conversion was easy believism in some of these churches where a testimony moved your emotions. Are you genuinely born again? Do you believe in the baptism of the Holy ghost with tongues as evidence? You never start your christian journey be that if you are not born of the spirit. Even as a baby christian when i gave my life to Christ, persecution came because i was born in a muslim home, anything i ask God, God gave me. So it comes as a shock and surprise when so called christian who were born in Christians homes talk about frustrations and the likes. 1 Like |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by shdemidemi(m): 1:26pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
vooks: I hardly ask, instead I give thanks. The more I grow in God the less I ask and the more I thank Him. Especially when I continually come across words like persevere, endure, hope, work in my bible. |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by vooks: 1:30pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
You say aksing is part of prayer. Now you are projecting aksing as a phase you outgrow. The few times you aks, why do you aks? Do you have memory relapses where you forget that aksin is irrelevant? shdemidemi: |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by shdemidemi(m): 1:34pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
vooks: hahaha its become a joke to you now, run along bro. I have nothing more to add, you can make whatever deductions you fancy. |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by vooks: 1:34pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
It makes more sense because it is CARNAL and a belief that's highly devoid of God in it. It is intuitive and the most natural way to look at Jesus. I don't blame the criminal at the cross who mocked Jesus; all he saw was a fellow criminal crucified and he heard that he was a King. That's the natural shdemidemi-esque approach to God The repenting thug who through the bloodied body saw a King and a Kingdom, that's another level. And he never hesitated to ASK. He received. So it is really down to you to resign to fate and sovereignty. Take it further, what;s the point of sharing the gospel? Doesn't God's will prevail in the end? Never aks nothing because His will will prevail anyway but you can whine all you want to him because that's therapeutic. Don't even expect solutions. So if you don't pray for solutions are you praying for problems? honeychild: 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by dorox(m): 1:46pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
vooks:I and shdemidemi are in agreement that God's will must alway come to be whether it pleases us or not, but where I disagree with him is that prayer is not just an empty chat to God that yeilds no tangible bennefits. When we pray for God's will to be done like Jesus did, the our father in heaven sends us his holy spirit to strenghten us in our resolve to do what we already know to be right even in the midst of extreme difficulties when others who are reliant on the strenght of their will alone would have long since caved in to follow the path of least resistance. My point is that the early apostles were able to persevere through hard times without losing faith because of the power of the holy spirit in them. The holy spirit did not make them rich neither dit it make them healthier or to outlive people of their time. |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by shdemidemi(m): 1:52pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
dorox: Thank you dorox. There is one chapter that explains the complete ministry of the Holy Spirit. It is ROMANS 8. Do we actually need to pray to get the Holy Spirit to do His work of consoling and comforting us at difficult times? |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by Kenyan28: 2:28pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
1 Like |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by WinsomeX: 2:38pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
SirJohn, please what's happening to the money? Is Joagbaje refusing to pay up or what? |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by vooks: 2:41pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
1 Like |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by Kenyan28: 2:44pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
SirJohn: U must share the 500k lol |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by Boss13: 2:47pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
WinsomeX: Pastor Chris is in Bayelsa |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by WinsomeX: 3:01pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
Boss13: The more reason it should be easier to pay. 1 Like |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by dorox(m): 3:09pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
vooks: You are still dodging the thrust of our argument which is, if what you say is true, then christians will be better off compared to those of other faith and no faith. The issue of carnality would only be applicable here if your views on prayer holds up to reality, that is ifthere was an obvious positive gap between the well being of christians compare to the well being of others. But as it turns out, your view of prayer does not fit with reality, hence the question why? 1 Like |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by dorox(m): 3:19pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
Where is joagbaje? |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by vooks: 3:35pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
The thrust of your argument is wrong. You are measuring the efficacy of prayers by the welfare of Christians. Here are your premises 1. Christians are not likely to fare better than non-Christians in this world (Agreed) 2. Christians pray to God and He listens/hears but non-Christians prayers He does not CONCLUSION Prayers don't help Christians lead better lives Now, look closely at 1. BETTER in what/whose terms? Jesus Christ prayed that Peter's faith fail not The apostles prayed for boldness during persecution Was Peter's life or the apostles' any better compared to the non-Christians after the prayers? dorox: |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by PastorKun(m): 3:36pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
WinsomeX: On the contrary, it would make it more difficult for him to pay oooo! It costs a lot of money to host pastor chris and his entourage, it would definitely affect Joagbaje's cash flow. 1 Like |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by Boss13: 3:41pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
PastorKun: Oh please I was joking about Pastor Chris being in Bayelsa. Well, I know joagbaje is reading this probably as a guest. He is hibernating. On a serious note, he needs to be called to make that payment. Nobody forced him to make the statement. He was just so convinced and proud. See what his mouth has costed him. Joe, running away cannot help you. You need to pay and as soon as possible. Payment is not to redeem your image/reputation oh. That image is dead, buried and gone. 1 Like |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by vooks: 3:56pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
No we don't All exhortations to prayer are carnal and uninspired shdemidemi: |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by shdemidemi(m): 4:10pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
vooks:Are you bored? I am not here to convince you bro, I am here to say what the book says. If you do not agree with scripture or find it hard to comprehend these things, tough. |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by PastorKun(m): 4:13pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
Boss13: That's true joagbaje you really need to pay this 500k oh! That's the least you can do to reddem your already tattered reputation. As a christian(talkless of a pastor) your word should be your bond and the tiny little integrity you have left is at stake so in your best interest kindly be a man of your word. |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by vooks: 4:23pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
You don't need prayers. What else don't you need? Holy Spirit? shdemidemi: 1 Like |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by AlfaSeltzer(m): 4:44pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
shdemidemi: Hebrew saying: A foolish father begets a foolish son. |
Re: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by shdemidemi(m): 4:45pm On Nov 17, 2014 |
AlfaSeltzer: You are right. |
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