Logicboy03:


lol....it was according to your misinterpretation of the study

KraticKratus: I wonder how Jesus would have fared if tested for depression and suicidal tendencies.

All through the gospels, we never once saw a passage where it said Jesus smiled or Jesus laughed or Jesus danced. Instead all we had was Jesus wept, Jesus got angry, Jesus got violent, Jesus cursed, Jesus prefered alcohol to water, Jesus was hungry, Jesus got himself killed. etc. etc. All charateristics of chronic depression with suicidal tendencies.

Makes me wonder if Jesus was an atheist.

Logicboy03:




From the study

RESULTS: [size=18pt]Religiously unaffiliated[/size] subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found. CONCLUSIONS: Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients. After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts. Further study about the influence of religious affiliation on aggressive behavior and how moral objections can reduce the probability of acting on suicidal thoughts may offer new therapeutic strategies in suicide prevention.




1) You can believe in God, yet not follow any religion....so it is not necessarily atheists that the study is about. A non religious person can be an atheist or a theist

2) It was studying already depressed patients. You forget that religion can be an opium. Happiness and anti-suicidal tendency does not necessarily mean a sane person

italo:

Yes, I'd rather we discard biblical evidence which Atheists on this forum always ask us to discard in discussions.

Stick to scientific evidence which Atheists always clamour for...and we both believe in.

You and your family are more likely to kill yourselves, than me and my family.

I just worry for you...if you're still alive.

Rhymeyjohn: why not face the issue and swallow your pride. the post didnt mention christian, ok? but you've found it 'brillant' to stalk Jesus in your reply. its a pity, many atheist leave the essence of their living to theists, no wonder their higher depression when the theists are not around, such a parasitic life i wont wish for anyone

italo:

How did you forget the first line of my OP. " From the American Journal of Psychiatry?"

They are the ones saying all these, not me.

I'm just disgusted by the Atheists who claim that they, rather than religious people are happier and living life to the full.

italo:
Yet many Atheists mock we believers for not living life to the full.

wiegraf:

And you addressed nothing I've already not seen to.

Now this is the claim I address



And I repeat; we live fuller lives. As for happiness, not necessarily so.

Now, if you think living in a bubble as a sheeple, indulging in placebos, having skydaddy tell you how many times a day you're allowed to take a $hit, personally compromising your own values to satisfy that of skydaddy (eg homo's living in denial, or peaceful folk that have to become less so because of religious beliefs) equates to a fuller life then it's easy to see why live in the religious bubble.

KraticKratus:

Your god killed himself. Fact.

I am still alive. Fact.

Everything else is hypothesis.

KraticKratus:

Oh! Don't worry for me, I dey kampe.
You should be worried about your god that came and killed himself, then promised he would do it again.
Talk about a suicide addicted zombie.

But according to the scientific evidence you tout about, jesus very much behaved like an atheist.
So maybe when faced with difficulties, atheists ask themselves this question: what would jesus do?

Logicboy03:


lol....it was according to your misinterpretation of the study

Logicboy03:



Ah, lol.....from the religion of young earth creationism, belief in talking snakes and donkeys, faith healing, tithe sowing and pastorpreneurs.....you are much a hypocrite to talk about the mental state of atheists

italo:

It was the psychiatrists who carried out the study and interpreted it, not me.

italo:

I see. A fuller life is one of anger, desolation, substance abuse, fewer reasons to live and ultimately suicide for the Atheist and his family.

How 'sensible.'

italo:

I see. A fuller life is one of anger, desolation, substance abuse, fewer reasons to live and ultimately suicide for the Atheist and his family.

How 'sensible.'

Logicboy03: .

It would do you well to read my previous comment before lying on the psychiatrists head

italo:
A fuller life is one of anger, desolation, substance abuse, fewer reasons to live and ultimately suicide for the Atheist and his family.

paper:

Suicide rates are lower in religious countries than in secular ones (1, 2). Some of this difference may be due to underreporting in religious countries because of concerns over stigma (3). Yet, some of the difference may be real, although it is not known whether the negative association between religion and suicide is due to its integrative benefits (such as social cohesion, as proposed by Durkheim in 1951 [4]) or to the moral imperatives of religious belief, given its prohibitions against suicidal behavior (1, 5–7).

wiegraf:
Assuming your data is accurate op, first up, you do realize your issue is with folk that want to die, eg some brands of nihilists, yes? Or you can show me atheist doctrine which mandates we commit suicide? I can show you doctrine that encourages one to suicide though. Simply look at medieval japan and harakiri or muslims and 72 vir.gins. See? Atheism has absolutely nothing of the sort, so I fail to see the problem here. Their decisions to was theirs and theirs alone. Looks like a contradiction? It isn't.

If you're looking for why they did it mind you, you post they have "less contact with family members", etc etc. I hope religiosity isn't responsible for that, hmm?

Before any si.lly 'holier than thou' as well, not that I necessarily agree with their position, but you do know that contrary to your beliefs living might not be a 'blessing' or whatever nonsense you'd like to spout. I could even argue that some xtians/etc stay alive needlessly, when a graceful end would be much better. I, for instance, would rather be dead than completely paralyzed. My position.

The talk of not having as many children as religious, hope you're not insinuating that's some sort of crime? Else...well

And you post bits about atheist 'anger', really? After I posted all those nice charts showing the rates of violent crime and religosity? We have people on this board claiming they would happily watch people burn for eternity, singing and dancing next door, if that isn't anger I wonder what is. Certainly isn't love. Those forcing people to go through pregnancies, etc etc. I would much rather take atheist 'anger' than that nonsense, thank you.

wiegraf:


Where did he come across



And our families as well? Wow. All those peaceful countries topping the HDI with large atheist populations don't seem to exist. Indeed, I believe I specifically showed him the charts, here.

Religiosity
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/Religion_in_the_world.PNG[/img]

HDI 2010
[img]http://1.bp..com/-wKOfWllJHJ0/UDtAlAoYKFI/AAAAAAAABGM/k7ALHr6GM7Q/s1600/human_development_index_around_the_world.jpg[/img]

Conflict


Murder
[img]http://4.bp..com/-sdQGJ0Qgo78/To9y0nJ1kLI/AAAAAAAAALI/z_ZCxBjqAQw/s1600/Murder-rates-in-countries-across-the-world.gif[/img]

Just look at how well all those religious populations are doing.


If you actually follow the paper (just skimming through now, and lol, and it's actually a survey of already depressed patients), this



The paper's argument is that religious bubble condemns suicide therefore they commit less suicide. Cool. That's not the only thing they could encourage. It also encourages hom.ophobia, therefore they are also more ho.mophobic. It encourages others to suicide bombing, therefore there are more suicide bombers as well. It encourages hate, therefore they hate more. It encourages mindless happiness, even when there's really no reason for it to be so, even when something can be done about it, so they remain mindlessly happy. Etc, etc. But I'm sure all this matters not to proud sheeple.

Drinking kool aid leads to greener pastures, of course, to sheeple. Suffering and smiling, etc. If that's his definition of 'fuller', mayhaps they should enjoy it.

KraticKratus:
I wonder how Jesus would have fared if tested for depression and suicidal tendencies.

All through the gospels, we never once saw a passage where it said Jesus smiled or Jesus laughed or Jesus danced. Instead all we had was Jesus wept, Jesus got angry, Jesus got violent, Jesus cursed, Jesus prefered alcohol to water, Jesus was hungry, Jesus got himself killed. etc. etc. All charateristics of chronic depression with suicidal tendencies.

Makes me wonder if Jesus was an atheist.

KraticKratus:
I wonder how Jesus would have fared if tested for depression and suicidal tendencies.

All through the gospels, we never once saw a passage where it said Jesus smiled or Jesus laughed or Jesus danced. Instead all we had was Jesus wept, Jesus got angry, Jesus got violent, Jesus cursed, Jesus prefered alcohol to water, Jesus was hungry, Jesus got himself killed. etc. etc. All charateristics of chronic depression with suicidal tendencies.

Makes me wonder if Jesus was an atheist.

Second, [size=16pt]moral objections[/size] to suicide was significantly associated with suicide attempt when religious affiliation was statistically controlled. Third, the significant bivariate association between [size=16pt]religious affiliation and suicide attempt did not remain significant[/size] when moral objections to suicide were controlled statistically (Figure 1).

The final model with suicidal ideation as the outcome variable and age, aggression, responsibility to family, religious affiliation, and moral objections to suicide as the independent variables revealed that high aggression scores, [size=16pt]low moral objections to suicide[/size], and younger age were significantly and independently associated with suicidal ideation. [size=16pt]Religious affiliation[/size] and responsibility to family [size=16pt]were not[/size]

wiegraf:


A fuller life is one built around honesty. You know, like living with a honest conscience?

Do feel free to build your cowardly life around a lie, no one's holding you back.

Hiswordxray:


This is the biggest lie I have ever heard. Atheist do not have honest conscience but instead they have a troubled conscience which they try to calm which foolish logical lies.
You know God exist but you denial him and your conscience will forever trouble you no matter the lies you tell yourself.

davien:
Wiegraf doesn't seem troubled,nor told you he's troubled.....but somehow you'd choose to assume and then tell him what you think he's thinking..what type of mentality are you using here?
You keep saying atheists "know god exists".....
I have a question for you......if you know whatever you termed "god" exists why is faith needed to believe it?
Is there any path to knowledge that requires faith?
Is it by faith you have knowledge that no car is approaching you.... as you cross a street?
If you look before crossing streets and then tout faith as a method to knowledge then you are a hypocrite by definition..
Even still I wonder how you keep regurgitating the same line each day...
What would even be your reaction if a Muslim told you...
"Hiswordxray...you know allah exists and Muhammad is his prophet"

Hiswordxray:


You have no idea what faith is and you know God exist. For the Bible says "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened." (Rom 1:18-21).

And you can say whatever you like to disqualify those verses but telling me and telling yourself that you don't know if God exist, is a big lie.
STOP DECEIVING YOURSELF AND FACE THE TRUTH.

Hiswordxray:


This is the biggest lie I have ever heard. Atheist do not have honest conscience but instead they have a troubled conscience which they try to calm which foolish logical lies.
You know God exist but you denial him and your conscience will forever trouble you no matter the lies you tell yourself.

davien:
I do not lie when I tell you I have 0 knowledge of what a "god" is...nor if any such thing exists...the classical definition is ofcourse in mythical anthropomorphic tales......
In reality,no such things are known to exist...they are claimed to be.

You using the bible(that is the origin of the claim of your "god" ) to prove the claim that what it writes about exists....is circular logic...

And then picking verses that accuse unbelievers of having knowledge they do not have is just downright fallacious and dishonest....
Not withstanding,I shall use your own logic to prove your fallacy....
From an extract of your comment...
" His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made "
Here is the definition of invisible..

"Invisibility is the state of an object that cannot be seen . An object in
this state is said to be invisible (literally, "not visible" ). The term is
often used in fantasy/ science fiction , where objects are literally
made unseeable by magical or technological means; however, its
effects can also be demonstrated in the real world... "

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisibility


Now from the definition of invisible....how can I "clearly see" that which has "invisible qualities" without a demonstration or justification in the real word?


"clearly seen" does not go well with "invisible qualities"...

That is why "god" is never demonstrated,only labelled on things..

You yourself are the liar in this case.....because out of the numerous times i've expressed my ignorance of what a "god" would be....you use a scripture verse to speak for who you are talking to.

davien:
I do not lie when I tell you I have 0 knowledge of what a "god" is...nor if any such thing exists...the classical definition is ofcourse in mythical anthropomorphic tales......
In reality,no such things are known to exist...they are claimed to be.

You using the bible(that is the origin of the claim of your "god" ) to prove the claim that what it writes about exists....is circular logic...

And then picking verses that accuse unbelievers of having knowledge they do not have is just downright fallacious and dishonest....
Not withstanding,I shall use your own logic to prove your fallacy....
From an extract of your comment...
" His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made "

Here is the definition of invisible..

"Invisibility is the state of an object that cannot be seen . An object in
this state is said to be invisible (literally, "not visible" ). The term is
often used in fantasy/ science fiction , where objects are literally
made unseeable by magical or technological means; however, its
effects can also be demonstrated in the real world... "

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisibility


Now from the definition of invisible....how can I "clearly see" that which has "invisible qualities" without a demonstration or justification in the real word?


"clearly seen" does not go well with "invisible qualities"...

That is why "god" is never demonstrated,only labelled on things..

You yourself are the liar in this case.....because out of the numerous times i've expressed my ignorance of what a "god" would be....you use a scripture verse to speak for who you are talking to.

davien:
I do not lie when I tell you I have 0 knowledge of what a "god" is...nor if any such thing exists...the classical definition is ofcourse in mythical anthropomorphic tales......
In reality,no such things are known to exist...they are claimed to be.

You using the bible(that is the origin of the claim of your "god" ) to prove the claim that what it writes about exists....is circular logic...

And then picking verses that accuse unbelievers of having knowledge they do not have is just downright fallacious and dishonest....
Not withstanding,I shall use your own logic to prove your fallacy....
From an extract of your comment...
" His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made "
Here is the definition of invisible..

"Invisibility is the state of an object that cannot be seen . An object in
this state is said to be invisible (literally, "not visible" ). The term is
often used in fantasy/ science fiction , where objects are literally
made unseeable by magical or technological means; however, its
effects can also be demonstrated in the real world... "

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisibility


Now from the definition of invisible....how can I "clearly see" that which has "invisible qualities" without a demonstration or justification in the real word?


"clearly seen" does not go well with "invisible qualities"...

That is why "god" is never demonstrated,only labelled on things..

You yourself are the liar in this case.....because out of the numerous times i've expressed my ignorance of what a "god" would be....you use a scripture verse to speak for who you are talking to.

honourhim:
Funny how these atheists are throwing all sorts of rubbish to defend themselves. .

God forbid that I will go into this shi.t called atheism.