fishleg123:
@ unibenstudent, u said Jesus is d name of anti Christ, pls, can u explain.

do a thorOugh research ,work out ur salvation with fear and trembling!

We presume you have done a thorough research yourself to arrive at this conclusion. Why don't you share your findings?

You might as well quit posting threads here and wait for believers to 'thorough research' for themselves

Unibenstudent:
do a thorOugh research ,work out ur salvation with fear and trembling!

vooks:
We presume you have done a thorough research yourself to arrive at this conclusion. Why don't you share your findings?

You might as well quit posting threads here and wait for believers to 'thorough research' for themselves

am gonna start proper documentations soon so be prepared to see the truth!!

SO you believe all that without 'proper documentation'?

Can you until such a time as you can afford to put your thoughts and beliefs in a coherent form cease and desist from broadcasting things you barely comprehend?

Unibenstudent:
am gonna start proper documentations soon so be prepared to see the truth!!

Jesus won or have finished the assignment does not mean each of us will not carry our own cross.

For we wrestle not flesh and blood but against principalities and power and wickedness in high places so put on the whole amour ---

pls not that this verse is in continous tense

So gentlemen we are in a war fare that requires the name Jesus and the blood to used constantly and consistently.

vooks:
SO you believe all that without 'proper documentation'?

Can you until such a time as you can afford to put your thoughts and beliefs in a coherent form cease and desist from broadcasting things you barely comprehend?

I believe u prefer the documentions by oyedepo and adeboye and oyakhilome who are robbing the masses and having billions in their accounts is those people documentation u love?

You said you would get proper documentation for your sect's beliefs. This means now you have nothing yet you believe.

Oyedepo and Oyakhilome are not the subject of this thread. We are examining your claims of 'truth'

Unibenstudent:
I believe u prefer the documentions by oyedepo and adeboye and oyakhilome who are robbing the masses and having billions in their accounts is those people documentation u love?

Goshen360:

In our own case, the case is already won. We don't plead the blood to win our case, we appear as a victor that their case was already won and we've been declared as overcomers.

Pleadings can be used by lawyers to enforce their victory and to enjoy the fruits of the case they have already won. Let's say Debtor is owing the bank. Bank goes to court and obtains judgment against Debtor. Yet, bank has not received the money. The process of getting the money in its 'pocket' may still involve filing pleadings. The people pleading the blood of Jesus have the victory already. But in the physical, they do not have it, hence the resort to ways of making the spiritual reality become physical.

Hanibal:
Alrite... Im sorry
But the bottom line is.. no Apostle ever used it .

Ok.

So, you only do what the apostles did the same way they do? Do you clap your hands when singing in church? Do you dance? Do you use musical instruments in church or elsewhere?

nlMediator:


Pleadings can be used by lawyers to enforce their victory and to enjoy the fruits of the case they have already won. Let's say Debtor is owing the bank. Bank goes to court and obtains judgment against Debtor. Yet, bank has not received the money. The process of getting the money in its 'pocket' may still involve filing pleadings. The people pleading the blood of Jesus have the victory already. But in the physical, they do not have it, hence the resort to ways of making the spiritual reality become physical.

Again, the point is, faith that accesses what is already done. We don't use faith to do what is already done. It's is faith that overcome the world, not pleading the blood that's already shed. None of the Apostles went about pleading the blood.

Goshen360:

Again, the point is, faith that accesses what is already done. We don't use faith to do what is already done. It's is faith that overcome the world, not pleading the blood that's already shed. None of the Apostles went about pleading the blood.

You make it look like faith is some abstract concept. How do you express this faith you parrot - by just claiming you have faith? When people plead the blood of Jesus, they're expressing their faith in what Jesus did as a basis for the manifestation of what they need. They're presenting their arguments for why they deserve it, just as lawyers do and just as God wants His children to do. The apostles need not do it for it to be valid. As I asked the other brother, do you believe we should stop clapping in church, dancing to songs or making music with instruments in church since the apostles never did any of those?

nlMediator:


You make it look like faith is some abstract concept. How do you express this faith you parrot - by just claiming you have faith?

No, you express this faith BY BELIEVING in what's already done ONCE AND FOR ALL TIMES. The substance of our faith is the evidence of resurrection and that the blood was already shed. That's why it is said, faith is the EVIDENCE. When a lawyer appears before a Judge with this evidence of ours, there's no more case in the court room of God.

nlMediator:

When people plead the blood of Jesus, they're expressing their faith in what Jesus did as a basis for the manifestation of what they need.

That's wrong application of faith in the finished works. It's pleading the blood of Jesus AGAIN to redeem yourself and for forgiveness. It's already available for redemption and forgiveness. When people make a practice of pleading the blood, they are not expressing their faith but using their faith to achieve what is already achieved - again, the blood is already shed.

nlMediator:

They're presenting their arguments for why they deserve it, just as lawyers do and just as God wants His children to do.

Your argument is FAITH....the evidence, plus you're heirs and partakers of divine heritage. As sons of God, you have a legal right to God's heritage, not pleading or sprinkling the blood as another ritual like the people of OT.

nlMediator:

The apostles need not do it for it to be valid.

Where do you place this scriptures then?

King James Bible
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Acts 2:42

nlMediator:

As I asked the other brother, do you believe we should stop clapping in church, dancing to songs or making music with instruments in church since the apostles never did any of those?

I was part of church gathering that do all of that but I did it when I didn't know better. I was also part of a church gathering that the Holy Spirit moved mightily in our worship and praises when we sing songs without musical instruments. So, I understand it not the musical instruments but the Spirit of worship\praises to God. I can manage myself if I am in a gathering where they do such, not necessarily that I do such or will do it based on my understanding.

Besides, there are "indication" in scriptures the Apostle(s) might have danced\clapped...if they sang songs in worship because dancing is synonymous to singing\rejoicing\praises but on the musical instruments, if I ever become a pastor leading God's church, I do not think musical instruments will be part of our worship to God because worship is in truth and spirit. However, I do not have control over God's people if I'm not the Pastor leading the church and I won't stop them doing it when I come to worship in a place like that but it doesn't mean I agree they are doing something right.

nlMediator:


Ok.

So, you only do what the apostles did the same way they do? Do you clap your hands when singing in church? Do you dance? Do you use musical instruments in church or elsewhere?

At dis point.. i must ask what are u saying?

Goshen360:

No, you express this faith BY BELIEVING in what's already done ONCE AND FOR ALL TIMES. The substance of our faith is the evidence of resurrection and that the blood was already shed. That's why it is said, faith is the EVIDENCE. When a lawyer appears before a Judge with this evidence of ours, there's no more case in the court room of God.
That's wrong application of faith in the finished works. It's pleading the blood of Jesus AGAIN to redeem yourself and for forgiveness. It's already available for redemption and forgiveness. When people make a practice of pleading the blood, they are not expressing their faith but using their faith to achieve what is already achieved - again, the blood is already shed.
Your argument is FAITH....the evidence, plus you're heirs and partakers of divine heritage. As sons of God, you have a legal right to God's heritage, not pleading or sprinkling the blood as another ritual like the people of OT.
Where do you place this scriptures then?
King James Bible
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Acts 2:42
I was part of church gathering that do all of that but I did it when I didn't know better. I was also part of a church gathering that the Holy Spirit moved mightily in our worship and praises when we sing songs without musical instruments. So, I understand it not the musical instruments but the Spirit of worship\praises to God. I can manage myself if I am in a gathering where they do such, not necessarily that I do such or will do it based on my understanding.
Besides, there are "indication" in scriptures the Apostle(s) might have danced\clapped...if they sang songs in worship because dancing is synonymous to singing\rejoicing\praises but on the musical instruments, if I ever become a pastor leading God's church, I do not think musical instruments will be part of our worship to God because worship is in truth and spirit. However, I do not have control over God's people if I'm not the Pastor leading the church and I won't stop them doing it when I come to worship in a place like that but it doesn't mean I agree they are doing something right.

Your response was extensive but simply missed the simple question I asked: how do you express your faith? Let's say somebody is sick. He knows that Jesus won the victory over sickness. To get that sickness to leave his body, what does he do? Walk me through the steps. He just says in his mind, "I believe" and the sickness leaves?

Saying that pleading the blood is trying to win the war is your own understanding. Or the understanding of those who abuse the practice. It's like me saying that when you confront a situation like sickness by believing in the finished works of Jesus that what you're doing is fighting to win a victory that's already there. My saying it does not make it so.

On musical instruments, you're free not to use it. Nobody says that without them, you cannot effectively worship God. The simple answer you've avoided is: is it an invalid practice seeing that the apostles never did it? Saying that you can tolerate is neither here nor there. After all, you can also choose to tolerate those that plead the blood. But you came out to declare it wrong, because the apostles didn't practice it. Why not do the same with instruments instead of saying you'd tolerate it?

Unibenstudent:
nice 1 but who is this lamb ? Is it Jesus or yeshua?

wu is jesus or wu a yeshua?
U are sayin d same thing.
Old testament is written in hebrew while new testament is written in greek.


And about d blood of jesus, jesus is d first person to use his blood and he show us d power in his blood. read more about it through holy communion .
paul use it also,
He said the blood of jesus, d blood dat speak better dan d blood of abel.
And so on, I use it too

nlMediator:


Your response was extensive but simply missed the simple question I asked: how do you express your faith? Let's say somebody is sick. He knows that Jesus won the victory over sickness. To get that sickness to leave his body, what does he do? Walk me through the steps. He just says in his mind, "I believe" and the sickness leaves?

It's simple my brother.

King James Bible
Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
Philippians 4:6

When I pray for healing, I don't pray to make the healing happen again, it's already available in Christ as part of my inheritance. My prayer is in thanksgiving for what is already available for\to me. I present my case in faith with thanksgiving and walk in that healing. The symptoms "might" still be there but I believe I'm healed\well.

nlMediator:

Saying that pleading the blood is trying to win the war is your own understanding. Or the understanding of those who abuse the practice. It's like me saying that when you confront a situation like sickness by believing in the finished works of Jesus that what you're doing is fighting to win a victory that's already there. My saying it does not make it so.

Like I said, go to the context of that verse. If the blood wasn't already shed, there's no way the victory is obtainable. It's because the blood was shed that's why it was recorded that: And they overcome him by the blood of the Lamb. Faith doesn't do again what is already done, it believes in what is already done.

nlMediator:

On musical instruments, you're free not to use it. Nobody says that without them, you cannot effectively worship God. The simple answer you've avoided is: is it an invalid practice seeing that the apostles never did it? Saying that you can tolerate is neither here nor there. After all, you can also choose to tolerate those that plead the blood. But you came out to declare it wrong, because the apostles didn't practice it. Why not do the same with instruments instead of saying you'd tolerate it?

@ Bold #1. I believe it is an invalid practice since it is non Apostolic doctrine.

@ Bold #2: I said I tolerate it because, do you want me to leave a church gathering if I'm invited and they are using musical instruments? They same way I will not leave a church gathering when they are all pleading the blood. I will only no participate in that activity while I'm in that gathering. Just like, I won't tithe if I'm in a church gathering where many are tithing. If I leave such gathering because I don't believe in such, then I dismiss the Christian love in me but it doesn't mean I agree with such practice. You know love tolerates all things...

^^^^

On musical instruments, I wanted you to say if it's valid or invalid and you have done so now.

On praying for the sick, the person pleading the blood can do exactly what you did. You're both expressing your faith in the finished work. You simply do not verbalize some aspect of the finished work -blood - while the other person does. E.g. "Father, I thank you that because of the blood shed on Calvary I'm healed. I plead the blood against this sickness, etc. I believe I'm healed because your word says so."

Goshen360:


No, you express this faith BY BELIEVING in what's already done ONCE AND FOR ALL TIMES. The substance of our faith is the evidence of resurrection and that the blood was already shed. That's why it is said, faith is the EVIDENCE. When a lawyer appears before a Judge with this evidence of ours, there's no more case in the court room of God.



That's wrong application of faith in the finished works. It's pleading the blood of Jesus AGAIN to redeem yourself and for forgiveness. It's already available for redemption and forgiveness. When people make a practice of pleading the blood, they are not expressing their faith but using their faith to achieve what is already achieved - again, the blood is already shed.



Your argument is FAITH....the evidence, plus you're heirs and partakers of divine heritage. As sons of God, you have a legal right to God's heritage, not pleading or sprinkling the blood as another ritual like the people of OT.



Where do you place this scriptures then?

King James Bible
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Acts 2:42



I was part of church gathering that do all of that but I did it when I didn't know better. I was also part of a church gathering that the Holy Spirit moved mightily in our worship and praises when we sing songs without musical instruments. So, I understand it not the musical instruments but the Spirit of worship\praises to God. I can manage myself if I am in a gathering where they do such, not necessarily that I do such or will do it based on my understanding.

Besides, there are "indication" in scriptures the Apostle(s) might have danced\clapped...if they sang songs in worship because dancing is synonymous to singing\rejoicing\praises but on the musical instruments, if I ever become a pastor leading God's church, I do not think musical instruments will be part of our worship to God because worship is in truth and spirit. However, I do not have control over God's people if I'm not the Pastor leading the church and I won't stop them doing it when I come to worship in a place like that but it doesn't mean I agree they are doing something right.

Now that I have some free moment, let me revisit your position on clapping and dancing. The apostles never did such. Making an assumption and calling it an indication does not cut it. It's simple knowledge that people can sing without clapping or dancing. When God told the Israelites in The OT to clap, He knew He could have told them to sing and then expect them to clap. But He gave express instructions on clapping. Show me similar instructions in the NT by the apostles. There is no basis in scripture or real life to your claim that dancing is synonymous to singing. I can play a similar game and claim there are indications that Abraham's family tithed or that the apostles pled the blood but you'd be the first to reject it.

Now, that's not to say that clapping or instruments are bad. There are examples that musical instruments are used in Heaven, as Book of Revelations say a number of times. And the OT examples (Psalms) show that clapping and use of instruments are not bad. I see nothing wrong in copying from the OT if it does not contradict the NT nor would I reject something that goes on in Heaven if it's not prohibited here on earth. The problem is some of you reject everything not done by apostles but when presented with uncomfortable examples, you start dancing around.

Same thing you did with justifying sex before marriage even when the apostles taught or did no such thing. Why not follow their example in that regard? Or can you show an example of another apostle that lived and slept with a lady he was not married to? BTW, I know your answer already.

nlMediator:


Now that I have some free moment, let me revisit your position on clapping and dancing. The apostles never did such. Making an assumption and calling it an indication does not cut it. It's simple knowledge that people can sing without clapping or dancing. When God told the Israelites in The OT to clap, He knew He could have told them to sing and then expect them to clap. But He gave express instructions on clapping. Show me similar instructions in the NT by the apostles. There is no basis in scripture or real life to your claim that dancing is synonymous to singing. I can play a similar game and claim there are indications that Abraham's family tithed or that the apostles pled the blood but you'd be the first to reject it.

Now, that's not to say that clapping or instruments are bad. There are examples that musical instruments are used in Heaven, as Book of Revelations say a number of times. And the OT examples (Psalms) show that clapping and use of instruments are not bad. I see nothing wrong in copying from the OT if it does not contradict the NT nor would I reject something that goes on in Heaven if it's not prohibited here on earth. The problem is some of you reject everything not done by apostles but when presented with uncomfortable examples, you start dancing around.

Same thing you did with justifying sex before marriage even when the apostles taught or did no such thing. Why not follow their example in that regard? Or can you show an example of another apostle that lived and slept with a lady he was not married to? BTW, I know your answer already.

Don't mind the crooked goshen.