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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Evolution And The Seagull Dance. (13061 Views)
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Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by plaetton: 3:00pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
sinequanon: Evil brain made this point 2 days ago. Why have you not dismantled it with your own superior argument? All you can say is that it is dumb? This is the kind of response we expect and get from nairaland Sunday school graduates, not an intellectual heavyweight like yourself sir. Step up your game sir. We are sincerely eager to learn something from you. 5 Likes |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by timmy2409(m): 3:00pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
^^ Come on man, I specifically quoted that section of your text to be clear. THIS was sarcasm. wiegraf: |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by plaetton: 3:06pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
timmy2409:One of the features of cognitive dissonance is the ability of one part of the brain to completely block out the other half, triggering a Short or longer term memory loss if the situation requires it. 1 Like |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by timmy2409(m): 3:11pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
plaetton: You might be right. This would explain why someone with such a purportedly superior intellect would fail to grasp the blatant sarcasm in wiegraf's post. 2 Likes |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by EvilBrain1(m): 3:13pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
plaetton: Not that's not it at all. What's happening is that he's so incredibly brilliant that our feeble minds cannot even begin to comprehend his arguments. I'm sure if we run his posts through a supercomputer for a few millennia they'll start to make sense. 3 Likes |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by sinequanon: 3:20pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
timmy2409: wiegraf misunderstood the OP, which clearly asks how you would APPLY the theory of evolution. He read it as an attack on ToE. Then, I am supposed to figure out what his confused reply means, not only because he is addressing the wrong point, but he further twists it, using sarcasm. Yes, wiegraf was trying to be sarcastic. Evilbrain wasn't, and that is the post we are talking about! Keep up! Oh, and wiegraf's sarcasm, which was so blatant that nobody except you felt the need to remark because you "got it", was not in the bit he crossed out, or in his criticism of Evilbrain. |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by Ranchhoddas: 3:57pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
sinequanon:Okay you win.Can you please dismantle evilbrain's ridiculous argument? 5 Likes |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by Thugnificent(m): 3:58pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Ranchhoddas:Seconded |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by plaetton: 4:57pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Ranchhoddas: I think he is busy with google, and will return when he understands his own argument from google. 3 Likes |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by davien(m): 5:12pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Sinequanon I must ask if you are a creationist...because the willfull rejection of anything "random" and "billions of years" with the rejection to define the terms you use reasonates from your posts. ![]() 1 Like |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by Kay17: 7:18pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
sinequanon: Predators are naturally smart. In my opinion, it can be accounted for intelligence. The seagulls have the ability to manipulate their environment and especially where there are rewards, the trait is useful and valuable enough to be passed on to the subsequent generations. 3 Likes |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by UyiIredia(m): 7:28pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
wiegraf: it will be a miracle. . . the day u stop $hììting in your pants. |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by UyiIredia(m): 7:31pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Ranchhoddas: What's there to dismantle ? Only fools will see anything to it. Random mutations spoils things and has never been seen to make a new feature and natural selection can't make a damn pin. It is over hyped by evolutionists blind to the facts. EvilBrains post there was just one case of evolutionary storytelling. |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by Nobody: 7:34pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
DeepSight: I'm ok |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by plaetton: 7:56pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
UyiIredia: And sir,what are the facts that evolutionist are blind to ? 1 Like |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by sinequanon: 7:56pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Kay17: If you skip the idiotic contributions of plaetton, evilbrain, davien and some others, this has been discussed. I agree that intelligence is involved, but there must be more to it. (See my third post on page 0 about remoteness of reward.) I think that birds may be able to sense movement of worms beneath the surface as they have acute hearing and sense of vibration. (See my sixth post on page 0, which addresses remoteness of reward.) Someone also posted a useful link, which claimed observations of adult gulls teaching their young to tap for worms. I have not noticed this, personally. It would be interesting to see if this is the case. You just have to ignore the level of illiteracy displayed in this thread. Most couldn't understand the simple question even after it was explained several times. They are too used to kindergarten squabbles. It is better to ignore the illiterates and just focus on the question. |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by sinequanon: 7:56pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
double post |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by Kay17: 8:04pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
sinequanon: I still owe this to intelligence. A seagull could have noticed the effect of running the ground and seeing the worms storm out. The seagull was capable of making the connection and repeat time and time again. This rightly reminds me of a Skinner experiment with pigeons and superstitions. Again, the use of intelligence applies not only to this scenario but others, like communication, group hunts etc. |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by sinequanon: 8:09pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Kay17: Fair enough. We can agree to disagree. As I said, I think the response is too slow for them to make a connection between the running around and emergence of worms several minutes later. That is why I suggested the connection is between running around and hearing the worms. |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by UyiIredia(m): 8:10pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
plaetton: Facts such as random mutations NEVER building a new protein except in evolutionary fairy tales. And the fact that natural processes don't build systems with a code. Having a code is ALWAYS indicative of purpose which natural processes lack. Not to mention the fact that NS is grossly overhyped in what it can do which is at most conserve a trait. It doesn't make anything 1 Like |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by Kay17: 8:12pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
UyiIredia: Again, you have refused to admit a natural process must be the immediate cause. |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by UyiIredia(m): 8:21pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Kay17: You still are yet to bring an example of a natural process making a code. I'm too willing to bet that any 'example' you bring will be false. You've tried previously with snowflakes and crystals which is preposterous. |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by sinequanon: 8:22pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
UyiIredia: NS is grossly over-hyped. But are biologists claiming that proteins are being built from SCRATCH? I think they may be arguing that existing proteins are differentiating and specializing. So, small changes happening over a long time frame cause existing proteins to diversify for different tasks. As for a code, isn't that just a PR gimmick. DNA and RNA does not really operate like a code. They only report statistical correspondences between sequences of proteins (there isn't even a precise definition of a gene) and certain physical traits. They can't manipulate it like code. When they try, it is really hit and miss. |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by plaetton: 8:27pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
sinequanon: Again and again. It is either someone does not grasp an issue , in which case ignorance is the problem , or they are just dishonest to admit or show that they do not understand. I say it again, your kneejerk reaction to evilbrain's post betrayed you big time. And that is because you do not have a grasp of the fundamental mechanisms of the evolutionary process. Let's look back at evilbrain's post (In red): Look, all living things reproduce. All living things have offspring that are similar to their parents but different in tiny ways that makes each individual unique. Some of those differences favour survival, some make no difference, and some are disadvantages. All living things have more offspring than the environment can support meaning that many or most will die off before adulthood and they all have to compete to survive. Nature selects those who have traits that favour survival and kills off those who don't. Therefore any population of living things will gradually slowly change in appearance, physiology and behaviour as nature and death molds them to fit their environment. Once upon a time a seagull was born with a type of brain touch that made it behave wierdly and keep running along the ground for no good reason. Somehow, food inexplicably kept coming out of the earth and the seagull ate very well. Because of its constant good diet the seagull grew big and strong and had plenty of seagull babies many of whom also inherited the brain touch. The seagull's babies survived more than those of his mates because of the highly proteinaceous food he kept bringing home. Soon there were plenty of young brain touched seagulls running along the ground and eating the food that strangely kept coming out. The next time there was a drought, many seagulls starved and died but the brain touched seagull's offspring flourished, outcompeted the others and became dominant. Meanwhile even among the brain touched seagulls, some ran in subtly different ways that brought out more or less food. Those whose running style brought out more food out competed those whose brought out less and became dominant. And so, over a long period of time, nature and death continued to shape the seagull population until we ended up with a bunch of birds all of whom can tapdance expertly to attract worms. And that's when some stupìd Christians showed up and claimed it was because of Jesus. It wasn't because of Jesus. What he did here, which I commended, was to show how traits are acquired and passed on to succeeding generations. This was the simplest way to illustrate the mechanisms of evolution to any novice. That you failed to grasp it leaves much questions about your intellect and honesty. Now compare what he posted here with this statement from you : " I think that birds may be able to sense movement of worms beneath the surface as they have acute hearing and sense of vibration.". Now, if this is true, which is probable, then evilbrain's explanation still explains how seagulls of eons ago may have acquired this advantageous ground-vibration-sensing trait , and then passed it along. This is the part that either your ignorance or your dishonesty did not allow you consider. Any person with a high school education in biology would have immediately grasped what evilbrain was conveying. But apparently, you did not. My earlier reference to cognitive dissonance explains your behavior. So, I do think you owe evilbrain an apology. 6 Likes |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by Kay17: 8:27pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
UyiIredia: As I said earlier you preemptly defined 'codes'. A proper definition would describe a code not make metaphysical leaps about the cause. 1 Like |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by Emmalot121(m): 8:28pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Kay17:Evolution is not science. It is impossible to determine the origin of life. It cannot be tested or the entire scenario repeated. It, unlike religious origin can be changed or manipulated. |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by plaetton: 8:31pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
UyiIredia: I don't want to derail this particular thread to talk about your often repeated code nonsense, which, from the sound of your gibberisht , you must have heard somewhere but failed (as is common) to understand the full gist. Can you please open a thread to explain what a code is. Thank you . |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by davien(m): 8:31pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Emmalot121:Evolution does not deal with the origin of life...just biodiversity. |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by UyiIredia(m): 8:35pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
sinequanon: DNA and RNA without a doubt have codes in them. |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by plaetton: 8:36pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Emmalot121: Why is it impossible to determine the origin of life? The theory of evolution has been vigorously tested over the past 150yrs, without, I might add, to any refutations, not a single. The science of genetics has confirmed every evolutionary scenario predicted by the theory of evolution 150 yrs ago, and is enjoying wide applications in genetic engineering, medicine , agriculture and industry. So, you have absolutely zero idea of what you are talking about. 1 Like |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by UyiIredia(m): 8:37pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
plaetton: Go back to school if you need me to explain what a code is. It only goes to show your ignorance on the matter. And did I talk of codes only. What about mutations being unable to make anything. |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by plaetton: 8:39pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
sinequanon: Well, at least you are doing a little good job of educating this Uyi slowpoke about what a code is and isn't. |
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