asalimpo:


its better to honest than b sly.
If you were in my shoes you wouldnt give half an honest answer.
You'd throw smokescreens like a skunk.

Thanks for all your insults and name calling
I don't argue scripture
I speak from what I know and what I have had my eyes opened up to
I don't condemn you
Do as you wish,I choose to be led by my spiritual convictions not by laws to please you
My posts here are mainly for those who wish to be open and to them I say ,go and read up on tithes
Nobody taught me anything I said here
I read it and was convinced long before I ever heard any anti tithing preaching

PastorKun:


It was this very same deut 14 that opened up my eyes to the fact that church tithing today is a fraud. I first came across the scripture about 12 years ago whilst doing my devotional. I was shoc0ked, lost for words and literally confused as it contradicted everything I had ever been taught about tithes in churches. It then prompted me to start asking questions and studying the scriptures better on the subject matter. With further studies I was able to conclude with any iota of doubt that the tithe doctrine preached in churches today is a monumental fraud from the darkest pits of hell. That aside not one single tithe preacher I sought for explanation was able to give a single reasonable explanation for the inconsistencies in church tithe preaching and the bible's position. I had to conclude that they were preaching the error based on greed and c0onvinient ignorance.

Not one tithe preacher could explain, probably because they didnt understand it and were probably reading it for the first time.
It boggled their mind.
Why would God put a chapter endorsing eating the tithe? How dyu explain this in d light of other chapters tht show tht you pay it?

Mayb with more prayer/research they will soon find d truth.

But in context,rather than in isolation, that chapter does'nt establish any grounds for abrogating the tithe.

Two, the bible is like a gold mine, some truths take more effort to excavate than others.
And theyre still more treasures to discover. Man will never plumb d depth of God's word cuz God is infinite in wisdom.
But the principle for interpreting scripture are clear.
1) the truth is contextually consistent.
All scriptures on a subject must generally agree or come to a convergence on the truth.

2) more witness confirm d truth.

One and two is okay for typical logical deductions (surface mining) but in knottier cases, only the illumination of the Holy Spirit (the Teacher) can crack the cloud of darkness on an issue.

@op,
My brother avoid them the scripture must be fulfilled! They can't heed you, they need a touch from high!
I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord
Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead
at his appearing and his kingdom;
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of
season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long
suffering and doctrine.
For the time will come when they will not endure
sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they
heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth,
and shall be turned unto fables.
But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do
the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy
ministry.

babyosisi:


No my dear
giving works
I will give testimony that will blow your mind
I have given $156 monthly for a year to a ministry that God impressed on my mind to give and got a monetary reward over $120k.i have shared that here.
I gave $1000 to a ministry to widows,it was sacrificial giving because God impressed that in my heart and I got a reward over 8k from it
Another time I gave $100 gift after God spoke to me about it and I reaped a reward over 10K from it

I give every blessed day I step into God's house and I have been blessed beyond measure
My husbands salary doubled from giving
A young man in a bible school couldn't pay his fees,my hubby paid it and reaped the fruit of that kindness
Testimonies upon testimonies
I give,sometimes it is way beyond 10%, sometimes less but I can never go to GOd's house empty handed
Never!!
He has blessed me and mine and I give to his works
If I had $300 to give I might give $50 to a poor sister in church,$100 to a widow and the other $100 to a struggling minister and $50 to my church
And records it and rewards it
Let it be to you according to your faith,my heart is at peace with how God has taught me

I drive a 10 year old car,I can afford a better car but I didn't get one because of the need around me and God sees my heart
I don't need any man to tell me what the scripture doesn't say
I have never closed my heart to helping the needy with my substance or giving an offering in church and never will
I don't pay tithes
I give sometimes sacrificially
I don't tithe
Tithe is not necessarily for me to be blessed

The bible says when I give it shall be given to me good measure pressed down,shaken together and running over and I have seen it happen over and over again

Giving and tithing are spiritual excercise that Christians should practice and both have their different blessings. Give and it shall be given unto you.... ; Pay your tithe and God will rebuke the devourers for your sake. The two spiritual principles cannot replace each other.

Lilimax:
Giving and tithing are spiritual excercise that Christians should practice and both have their different blessings. Give and it shall be given unto you.... ; Pay your tithe and God will rebuke the devourers for your sake. The two spiritual principles cannot replace each other.

Can you spend a little time
Use a concordance and read every scripture on tithing or tithes. I doubt if you have ever done this.
Please do.
The bible enjoins us to study
That is what opened my eyes.nobody told me this
I learned it from the bible.

The one time Christ who is the fulfilment of the law spoke on tithes he was addressing hypocrites and pleasers of men.
Of all the teachings of Christ on christian living to his people with parables, not a single one on tithes but countless on giving and the blessings if it.
God rebukes the devourer on my behalf under grace if you keep one law u are liable to them all
I am not under that bondage

babyosisi:


Can you spend a little time
Use a concordance and read every scripture on tithing or tithes. I doubt if you have ever done this.
Please do.
The bible enjoins us to study
That is what opened my eyes.nobody told me this
I learned it from the bible.

I had done several research on tithing especially when I newly gave my life to Christ. Having been raised a Catholic, I was not used to tithing hence the need to know more? From my research, I concluded that tithing is btw me and God. Till date, my obedience to tithing does wonders to me.

Lilimax:
I had done several research on tithing especially when I newly gave my life to Christ. Having been raised a Catholic, I was not used to tithing hence the need to know more? From my research, I concluded that tithing is btw me and God. Till date, my obedience to tithing does wonders to me.

Did you read the portion on deut 14 about eating the tithe which the man of God here is unable to understand

babyosisi:


Thanks for all your insults and name calling
I don't argue scripture
I speak from what I know and what I have had my eyes opened up to
I don't condemn you
Do as you wish,I choose to be led by my spiritual convictions not by laws to please you
My posts here are mainly for those who wish to be open and to them I say ,go and read up on tithes
Nobody taught me anything I said here
I read it and was convinced long before I ever heard any anti tithing preaching

I'm not calling you names,though i'm being forthright.
The anti-tithe crowd claim to b motivated by the bible, yet from your responses here it's apparent you guyz are clearly interpreting the scripture wrongly.

Here are d popular points:

1.) the tithe is under d law and d law is done away with.

Question:
wen was the era of the law?
Wen did it begin?

Question:
if something occured bf d law was given , how can tht b logically established as being under the law?

Question:
Do you practice/believe in child dedication, things dedication?
Thtat's so OT.

2) There's no mention of tithe in the NT

Question:
what about matth23:23 and Heb7?

3) have you seen any verse from the epistles on tithe?
Question:
Does an affirmative reply to this question make the conclusion correct?

3.)
Jesus didnt receive tithe in the NT

Question:
wat was Jesus Mission on earth?
How was He operating on earth?


4)
the NT talks about sowing and giving gladly. That's all?

Question:
was the tithe ever the same as an offering? Is the tithe ever regarded as a seed?

5)
pastors embezzle the tithe so i'm not paying

Question:
will God buy tht excuse from you?
Is your pastor accountable to you for how he uses God's resources?
Who are you tithing to-God or Man?



Under scriptural and logical scrutiny ur arguments crumble. Yet anti tithers still cling on to it.

You claimed ignorance in the scripture about eating of the tithes and yet you are so knowledgeable in the paying of tithes
Lol
you are very funny

babyosisi:


Can you spend a little time
Use a concordance and read every scripture on tithing or tithes. I doubt if you have ever done this.
Please do.
The bible enjoins us to study
That is what opened my eyes.nobody told me this
I learned it from the bible.

The one time Christ who is the fulfilment of the law spoke on tithes he was addressing hypocrites and pleasers of men.

Of all the teachings of Christ on christian living to his people with parables, not a single one on tithes but countless on giving and the blessings if it.
God rebukes the devourer on my behalf under grace if you keep one law u are liable to them all
I am not under that bondage

the bolded.
The one time Jesus spoke about the tithe, He ENDORSED IT.
He never CONDEMNED their tithing. Never!

qoute matth23:23.

Girl,you're sly!.
How dyu read Matth23:23 and come up with such an interpretation?

The bible says you should not only study but rightly divide the word of truth!

Many people hav studied d word but only to come up with heretical doctrines tht have mislead many.
Just like your interpretation of matth23:23 and your side stepping of Heb7:8

babyosisi:
You claimed ignorance in the scripture about eating of the tithes and yet you are so knowledgeable in the paying of tithes
Lol

i said y most pastors may avoid the chapter you said endorses eating the tithe. I wasnt speaking for myself.
But if i dont know , i explained that the very principles for interpreting d scriptures still doesnt support your viewpoint.

As a counter example, is God a liar?
There's a verse where It appears tht He colluded with an evil spirit to pull a king down?
Please by your one lone scripture rule explain d character of God using that instance?
Can u?
Or are u going to side step this question *typical of you*?

asalimpo:


the bolded.
The one time Jesus spoke about the tithe, He ENDORSED IT.
He never CONDEMNED their tithing. Never!

qoute matth23:23.

Girl,you're sly!.
How dyu read Matth23:23 and come up with such an interpretation?

The bible says you should not only study but rightly divide the word of truth!

Many people hav studied d word but only to come up with heretical doctrines tht have mislead many.
Just like your interpretation of matth23:23 and your side stepping of Heb7:8

Jesus was speaking to hypocrites and keepers of the law and his emphasis was on the weightier things they ought to do rather than on tithes.read it.it is there in your Bible.Stop deceiving people by interpreting scriptures falsely.
Despite their tithing he called them hypocrites and snakes and vipers and whitewashed tombs ,condemned to hell ,why?
the emphasis was not on the law of paying tithes but on their deceptions thinking tithes would save them
I would rather dwell on the weightier things
No where in the scriptures with Jesus were sinners or the sick Jesus encountered asked to go and pay tithes.
Read your bible with understanding.
the part I highlighted in red is the clincher
he referred to their action as straining a gnat to swallow a camel. That wasn't a compliment despite their tithing
it was a big rebuke

matt 23

13[b]“Woe to you[/b], teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. [14]b

15[b]“Woe to you,[/b] teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

16“Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ 17You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ 19You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.

23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin . But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

[/b]25“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27“[b]Woe to you, [/b]teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! [b]You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

29“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!

33“ You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.

More on how tithes should be carried out

Deut. 14:28-29 (NIV) At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year’s produce and store it in your towns, 29so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.

has any Church every 3 years obeyed this law?how many times has any church every three years called the widows and fatherless and strangers to come and eat of the tithes of that year?
I guess our resident tithe preacher will tell us the pastors don't understand this part yet
It is pretty explicit IMHO but no, they prefer to pick and choose portions to suit them, putting themselves in the position of levites when they are not.
Levites have no inheritance in the land, neither do priests but our pastors own lands ,homes and cars and businesses and jets but want to be treated like levites with no inheritance and no source of livelihood besides the tithes.

Neh. 10:37-39 (NIV) “Moreover, we will bring to the storerooms of the house of our God, to the priests, the first of our ground meal, of our grain offerings, of the fruit of all our trees and of our new wine and oil. And we will bring a tithe of our crops to the Levites, for it is the Levites who collect the tithes in all the towns where we work. A priest descended from Aaron is to accompany the Levites when they receive the tithes, and the Levites are to bring a tenth of the tithes up to the house of our God, to the storerooms of the treasury. The people of Israel, including the Levites, are to bring their contributions of grain, new wine and oil to the storerooms where the articles for the sanctuary are kept and where the ministering priests, the gatekeepers and the singers stay. “We will not neglect the house of our God.”

from the scripture above,we see that all the tithes, that mandatory 10% went to the servants of the temple i.e levites
the levites in turn gave a tithe from all their collection (that is a tenth of the tenth) to the priest for the storehouse
who are the levites today?
answer: we have no levites
Paul and the NT preachers were supported not by tithes but by freewill offering as the NT taught
The resurgence of tithing was to increase contributions in the church not as a biblical injunction

Also we never heard of Christ paying tithes why?
Jesus was a carpenter by trade
Tithes were only to be paid by farmers and herdsmen
not fishermen,it was clear in the law on tithes
They also tithed their first born child,why are tithe preachers excluding that portion when they demand tithes?
craftsmen ,silver or goldsmiths or builders and dressmakers paid no tithes
not even lawyers like Paul or doctors
Tithe was never of money but of agric produce and animals only, it is clear in the OT

Money was in use at that time, so the argument that everyone was a farmer is false, Joseph was sold for money and so was Jesus
The very scripture on Deuteronomy that talked of eating tithes also talked about exchanging for money if the things were too heavy to carry a long distance then using it to purchase the stuff to be eaten
we read of denarii and shekels of silver as money.
People read your Bible and don't allow people deceive you into legalism

Lastly strangers and gentiles didn't pay tithes
It was specifically for the house of Israel the Jews
Today the Jews don't pay tithes and their reason is that the Rabbi are not levites, there are no levitical priests today in Israel the rabbi and work in the synagogue is supported solely by freewill offering in the synagogues but our pastors far away from Israel have placed themselves in the position of levites? How deceptive

asalimpo:


if tithing is under the law, then there's nowhere it wud appear before bf d law was given.
But this isnt d case.
Bf d law there was no commandnent not to kill, not to commit adultery.
Etc (by d way are u in bondage obeying this moral injunctions?
Is it okay to make graven images in the new covenant?
)
but there's no way you go thru d bible and find tithe originating within d law.
You're twisting scriptures as usual.

I missed this
burnt offering also preceded the law,why don't you do that?
also marrying of multiple wives, or going into your maidservants like abram did.
you see that your argument holds no water
Abraham we never read gave a tithe of his cattle or farm produce and he was a very rich man
he offered burnt offering and we read one time where he gave tithe of the spoils of war and then also gave the other 90% remainder away to a pagan king
do you also do that?
If Abraham is your prime example of tithing when last did you tithe on your plunders from a war and give out the rest of the 90% to a pagan King.this is why I say you tithe preachers are dishonest by picking and choosing what suits you in all the tithe examples.
Why don't you do it as it is written?
Who are you to device your own method of tithing and still call it tithes?

the law of tithing as stipulated in the OT from one's own crops and herd came after Abraham
Jacob made God a vow and that vow included a tithe if God did what he asked ,we didn't read that it was a monthly or annual practice for him
Read your Bible please

the rest of your questions are pretty irrelevant to the discus

babyosisi:


And I am sure like me you had a hard time discussing this with anyone because it was totally against everything you had heard for the pulpit and you were scared of being labeled heretic when the tithe preachers are indeed the heretic in essence for selectively hiding this portion.
I have read that scripture over and over again and it doesn't jive with anything they preach.
I am close to many preachers of the gospel,I won't even discuss this with any of them but if anyone ever brought on the topic of tithes in a personal conversation I know I would but so far that hasn't happened and I hope it stays that way.

On the contrary after studying and being sure of my position on tithes, I told everyone that cared to listen (and even those that didn't want to listen ) I even wrote an article on it which I circulated widely, I got it published in a popular news magazine and it was subsequently published a number of news papers. Infact it was in the cause of pushing my article all over the internet that I was introduced to nairaland seven years ago a posted the article on NL back then and it did ruffle quite a bit of feathers . Fighting the false tithe doctrine is a cause I have devoted myself to and I won't stop till people like Oyedepo and Adeboye recant of this fraudulent doctrine and apologise to their church members that they were wrong.

asalimpo:


Not one tithe preacher could explain, probably because they didnt understand it and were probably reading it for the first time.
It boggled their mind.
Why would God put a chapter endorsing eating the tithe? How dyu explain this in d light of other chapters tht show tht you pay it?

Mayb with more prayer/research they will soon find d truth.

But in context,rather than in isolation, that chapter does'nt establish any grounds for abrogating the tithe.

Two, the bible is like a gold mine, some truths take more effort to excavate than others.
And theyre still more treasures to discover. Man will never plumb d depth of God's word cuz God is infinite in wisdom.
But the principle for interpreting scripture are clear.
1) the truth is contextually consistent.
All scriptures on a subject must generally agree or come to a convergence on the truth.

2) more witness confirm d truth.

One and two is okay for typical logical deductions (surface mining) but in knottier cases, only the illumination of the Holy Spirit (the Teacher) can crack the cloud of darkness on an issue.

There is nothing inconsistent about deut 14 and your favourite malachi 3:8-11. Infact deut 14 explains it well. What is inconsistent is the twisted tithe interpretation taught in churches today. Tithes is clearly defined as food even in malachi, I challenge you to give us one single verse in the bible that defines tithes as money from income. If you can't then you should begin to realise that it is the modern church definition of tithes that is inconsistent with scriptures and not deut 14.

@babyosisi,
Thank you for dutifully exposing the fraud that is this thread.

Have a great day madam.

babyosisi:
Also we never heard of Christ paying tithes why?
Jesus was a carpenter by trade
Tithes were only to be paid by farmers and herdsmen
not fishermen,it was clear in the law on tithes
They also tithed their first born child,why are tithe preachers excluding that portion when they demand tithes?
craftsmen ,silver or goldsmiths or builders and dressmakers paid no tithes
not even lawyers like Paul or doctors
Tithe was never of money but of agric produce and animals only, it is clear in the OT

Money was in use at that time, so the argument that everyone was a farmer is false, Joseph was sold for money and so was Jesus
The very scripture on Deuteronomy that talked of eating tithes also talked about exchanging for money if the things were too heavy to carry a long distance then using it to purchase the stuff to be eaten
we read of denarii and shekels of silver as money.
People read your Bible and don't allow people deceive you into legalism

Lastly strangers and gentiles didn't pay tithes
It was specifically for the house of Israel the Jews
Today the Jews don't pay tithes and their reason is that the Rabbi are not levites, there are no levitical priests today in Israel the rabbi and work in the synagogue is supported solely by freewill offering in the synagogues but our pastors far away from Israel have placed themselves in the position of levites? How deceptive

haha haha

The Jews who this Law was given to have abandoned paying tithe this day.

How interesting.
They tell us that it belings to God and the pastor should collect it. Despite notions to the contrary on who should collect tithe as laid down in the bible.

They tell us the Israelites were strictly farmers so income should mean where you earn your livelihood so money shoukd be your tithe.
But they hide the fact that money existed even in the so-called agrarian society.


Both tithe collectors and their defenders are greedy,self-serving, belly worshipping, mammon-driven liars.

End of.

StarBoard:


haha haha

The Jews who this Law was given to have abandoned paying tithe this day.

How interesting.
They tell us that it belings to God and the pastor should collect it. Despite notions to the contrary on who should collect tithe as laid down in the bible.

They tell us the Israelites were strictly farmers so income should mean where you earn your livelihood so money shoukd be your tithe.
But they hide the fact that money existed even in the so-called agrarian society.


Both tithe collectors and their defenders are greedy,self-serving, belly worshipping, mammon-driven liars.

End of.

Having said all that,there is nothing wrong with a church pastor or elders getting together after viewing the revenue in the church and appealing to the congregation to give 10% or 8% or 5% of their income to run the church smoothly.i will respect that act of honesty and forthrightness .Paul commended the brethren for gathering up the donations before he came.a workman is worthy of his wages ,the Bible says.
But standing on the pulpit and telling a church that they owe God a certain percentage of their monetary income is fraudulent,everything we own belongs to God.i have heard some say that when you give the 10% ,God sanctifies the 90% and the ever popular verse of being cursed with a curse.God is not cursing anyone,the blood of Jesus has set us free from curses.They are lying.
They have taken this to very ridiculous extents just to intimidate people to surrender their money
People fall sick and a man of God tells them they withheld their tithes
They have a misfortune happen,someone asks if they have been eating their tithes
I have heard with my two ears a man of God who refused to pray for someone after he asked if the person was a faithful tither and they said no.
The bible says in this world we will have tribulations and trials but that we should be of good cheer and that is everyone including tithe payers.No one is immune from hard and trying times.

If they are sincere they will tell you their tithe preachings has absolutely nothing to do with the blessings on the tither but everything to do with the increase in their pockets and the luxury that follows.if it were not so they would not ask for money which was never tithed in the bible and they would allow the people eat their tithes in the presence of The Lord and gather widows and orphans every three years and share the tithes as instructed.

Let any of those tithers run into a financial problem and go to that same church for help,all they will do is pray for you for the most part and wish you well while your tithe is making profit in a fixed account of which him and his wife are signatories.

Jews don't pay tithes today,someone did a research

Having read the letter, I began to share her concern. To resolve the matter I telephoned three rabbis in the Los Angeles area for their explanation. Much to my dismay, all three independently of each other informed me that no religious Jew should tithe today. I was startled at their replies. This appeared to be evidence that the Jews were so lax with their biblical interpretation that they were abandoning even the simple words of their own Scripture about the laws of tithing.

By the time I spoke with the last rabbi, my youthful indignation was beginning to emerge. But that rabbi then wisely began to show me my ignorance (not his) in the whole matter. First, he admitted that none of his congregation paid one penny of tithe that was demanded in the Old Testament. He then said: "If any member of my synagogue paid tithe in the scriptural manner, he would be disobeying the law of God—he would be sinning against God."

I was staggered by his answer. He went on to inform me that since the Bible demands that the tithe be paid to Levites, he said it would be wrong to pay it to anyone else. And further, because there is presently no official Levitical order of Priests ministering at a Temple in Jerusalem, this makes it illegal at this period to pay any biblical tithe. He went on to say, however, that the moment a Temple is rebuilt, with its altar in operation and with the priesthood officiating at that altar (and the Levites there to assist them), then every Jew who lives in the tithing zones mentioned in the Bible will be required to tithe according to the biblical commands.

This teaching was a revelation to me (as it may be to some of our readers), but the rabbi gave the proper biblical answers. To pay the biblical tithe at this time, without Levites and Priests in their regular ordained offices and doing service in the Temple, would be "sin" both to the giver and the receiver. The rabbi told me: "If we are to obey the law, we cannot pay tithe unless we pay it to the ones ordained by God to accept that tithe."

The rabbi explained that though he was the chief rabbi of his synagogue, he was not a Levite. He said he was descended from the tribe of Judah and was thereby not eligible to receive tithe. The same disqualification applied even to Christ Jesus while he was on earth since he was also reckoned as having come from the tribe of Judah. This same restriction was applicable to the activities of the apostle Peter (because he was as well from Judah) and it applied to the apostle Paul (because he was from the tribe of Benjamin). Neither Christ nor those apostles were Levites so they were all disqualified from receiving any part of the biblical tithe. It is just that simple.

And listen, if Christ, Peter and Paul did not use the biblical tithe for any of their work in teaching the Gospel, Christian ministers today should not use the biblical tithe either. The Jewish religious authorities are wise enough to read what the Word of God states about the tithe and, thankfully, they abide by it. But our Gentile preachers and priests care very little what the biblical texts actually state and go merrily on their way by devising their own laws of tithing which are different from those of the Bible.

The rabbi then gave me some information on the method that many Jews use today to secure adequate funds with which to operate their religious organizations. He went on to say that the activities of his synagogue were financially supported through the adoption of the "patron system" by its members. That is, families would buy seats in the synagogue for various prices each year. The rabbi mentioned that many of his congregation actually paid more than a tenth of their income to get better seats in the synagogue. This method for raising funds is perfectly proper (from the biblical point of view) if Jews wish to use it. This is because the money is paid to the synagogue and not to an ordained Levitical priesthood.

The final rabbi was correctly interpreting the teaching of the Holy Scripture. While many Christian ministers today teach that Christians may be in danger of missing salvation itself if they do not pay tithe to the church, Jewish rabbis know better than to say such a thing. They realize that it is biblically improper (actually, it is a blatant disobedience to the laws of the Bible) for anyone to pay or to receive the biblical tithe today. And any minister or ecclesiastical leader who uses the biblical tithe (or any one who pays to a minister the biblical tithe) is a sinner in the eyes of God.

http://www.askelm.com/tithing/thi003.htm

babyosisi:


Having said all that,there is nothing wrong with a church pastor or elders getting together after viewing the revenue in the church and appealing to the congregation to give 10% or 8% or 5% of their income to run the church smoothly.i will respect that act of honesty and forthrightness .Paul commended the brethren for gathering up the donations before he came.a workman is worthy of his wages ,the Bible says.
But standing on the pulpit and telling a church that they owe God a certain percentage of their monetary income is fraudulent,everything we own belongs to God.i have heard some say that when you give the 10% ,God sanctifies the 90% and the ever popular verse of being cursed with a curse.God is not cursing anyone,the blood of Jesus has set us free from curses.They are lying.
They have taken this to very ridiculous extents just to intimidate people to surrender their money
People fall sick and a man of God tells them they withheld their tithes
They have a misfortune happen,someone asks if they have been eating their tithes
I have heard with my two ears a man of God who refused to pray for someone after he asked if the person was a faithful tither and they said no.
The bible says in this world we will have tribulations and trials but that we should be of good cheer and that is everyone including tithe payers.No one is immune from hard and trying times.

If they are sincere they will tell you their tithe preachings has absolutely nothing to do with the blessings on the tither but everything to do with the increase in their pockets and the luxury that follows.if it were not so they would not ask for money which was never tithed in the bible and they would allow the people eat their tithes in the presence of The Lord and gather widows and orphans every three years and share the tithes as instructed.

Let any of those tithers run into a financial problem and go to that same church for help,all they will do is pray for you for the most part and wish you well while your tithe is making profit in a fixed account of which him and his wife are signatories.

hahaha.
it gets even better with this lady.

Just one point of note:the pastors do not even have the right to levy the congregation. Firstly it is the duty of the pastor to look after the flock as Jesus commanded Peter to after his resurrection. Paul wrote that let everyone give according to what he has determined as God loves a cheerful giver. So giving any kind of portion is plain wrong by me.
I think that these so called Pastors have filled themselves with all other things except the Holy Spirit hence they resort to man-made methods such as this tithe scam through coercion and intimidation to provide for the ministry.
I look at the parallels between Christ's ministry where they seemed to have just about enough to the point where he didnt have a place to lay his head and today's pentecostal movement where pastors own several properties and jets and the like. It only goes to show that today, the main thing is mammon and more mammon. As you have highlighted these people haave been dishonest to the point where theyfeel it is pertinent to demand from their congregation and good portion of the proceeds is used on other things not related to running the church or parish as it were.
Case in point:
I used to worship in a parish in RCCG. if you know they church they have this zonal arrangement. the zone in which my parish belongs deemed it fit to get a plot of land near the zonal hq. Guess where funding was going to come from?Your guess is as good as mine. The congregation in that zone was going to raise the cash.
Now they came with the usual strategy sharing slips for those interested. In my mind I was asking what the tithes and offering that have been collected sunday after sunday (in the case of my parish two services) have been used for.This should have been a decent opportunity to put it to use assuming that the project was necessary.

babyosisi:
Jews don't pay tithes today,someone did a research





http://www.askelm.com/tithing/thi003.htm

You just nailed the money-can-be-paid-as-tithe argument.

I thank you.

StarBoard:


hahaha.
it gets even better with this lady.

Just one point of note:the pastors do not even have the right to levy the congregation. Firstly it is the duty of the pastor to look after the flock as Jesus commanded Peter to after his resurrection. Paul wrote that let everyone give according to what he has determined as God loves a cheerful giver. So giving any kind of portion is plain wrong by me.
I think that these so called Pastors have filled themselves with all other things except the Holy Spirit hence they resort to man-made methods such as this tithe scam through coercion and intimidation to provide for the ministry.
I look at the parallels between Christ's ministry where they seemed to have just about enough to the point where he didnt have a place to lay his head and today's pentecostal movement where pastors own several properties and jets and the like. It only goes to show that today, the main thing is mammon and more mammon. As you have highlighted these people haave been dishonest to the point where theyfeel it is pertinent to demand from their congregation and good portion of the proceeds is used on other things not related to running the church or parish as it were.
Case in point:
I used to worship in a parish in RCCG. if you know they church they have this zonal arrangement. the zone in which my parish belongs deemed it fit to get a plot of land near the zonal hq. Guess where funding was going to come from?Your guess is as good as mine. The congregation in that zone was going to raise the cash.
Now they came with the usual strategy sharing slips for those interested. In my mind I was asking what the tithes and offering that have been collected sunday after sunday (in the case of my parish two services) have been used for.This should have been a decent opportunity to put it to use assuming that the project was necessary.

Thanks for the inputs so far.

The RCCG administration is really flawed. I do worship there ATM. Almost everything gathered from the local parishes are forwarded to KM 46. Hence there's little or nothing left to handle local projects like land, building or equipment.

Almost everything is forwarded to KM 46.

babyosisi:


I missed this
burnt offering also preceded the law,why don't you do that?
also marrying of multiple wives, or going into your maidservants like abram did.
you see that your argument holds no water
Abraham we never read gave a tithe of his cattle or farm produce and he was a very rich man
he offered burnt offering and we read one time where he gave tithe of the spoils of war and then also gave the other 90% remainder away to a pagan king
do you also do that?
If Abraham is your prime example of tithing when last did you tithe on your plunders from a war and give out the rest of the 90% to a pagan King.this is why I say you tithe preachers are dishonest by picking and choosing what suits you in all the tithe examples.
Why don't you do it as it is written?
Who are you to device your own method of tithing and still call it tithes?

the law of tithing as stipulated in the OT from one's own crops and herd came after Abraham
Jacob made God a vow and that vow included a tithe if God did what he asked ,we didn't read that it was a monthly or annual practice for him
Read your Bible please

the rest of your questions are pretty irrelevant to the discus

Abraham was never recorded to have tithed after that singular one.
As you said he had cattle and sheep but gave one of things plundered from a war as you already know.
Jacob was recorded to have made a vow to give a tenth of all he had if God heard his prayer and delivered him.But the Bible never revorded where Jacob fulfilled this vow.

I have told this fellow all this previously. Apparently he is dead set on repeating the lie that tithing predated the law hoping that it will become truth by some means.
I have told him to copy Abrahams examples of fornication. His response is that nobody is perfect.

Yet we Christian s have a perfect living example in Jesus
but fella would rather justify Abraham being the real reason why Christianity exists even going as far as saying that there would be no Christianity without Abraham and that Abraham was before Christ.

I think you should save your energy srguimg with this fellow. Someone who is prepared to twist the facts as regards the very essence of what he believes in will easily and gladly twist scripture in defence of tithe.

You have done an excellent job in deconstructing and demobilising his argument probably better than anyone so far;and any ready with s clear discerning mind would see the real truth of the matter.

Bless you.

StarBoard:


hahaha.
it gets even better with this lady.

Just one point of note:the pastors do not even have the right to levy the congregation. Firstly it is the duty of the pastor to look after the flock as Jesus commanded Peter to after his resurrection. Paul wrote that let everyone give according to what he has determined as God loves a cheerful giver. So giving any kind of portion is plain wrong by me.
I think that these so called Pastors have filled themselves with all other things except the Holy Spirit hence they resort to man-made methods such as this tithe scam through coercion and intimidation to provide for the ministry.
I look at the parallels between Christ's ministry where they seemed to have just about enough to the point where he didnt have a place to lay his head and today's pentecostal movement where pastors own several properties and jets and the like. It only goes to show that today, the main thing is mammon and more mammon. As you have highlighted these people haave been dishonest to the point where theyfeel it is pertinent to demand from their congregation and good portion of the proceeds is used on other things not related to running the church or parish as it were.
Case in point:
I used to worship in a parish in RCCG. if you know they church they have this zonal arrangement. the zone in which my parish belongs deemed it fit to get a plot of land near the zonal hq. Guess where funding was going to come from?Your guess is as good as mine. The congregation in that zone was going to raise the cash.
Now they came with the usual strategy sharing slips for those interested. In my mind I was asking what the tithes and offering that have been collected sunday after sunday (in the case of my parish two services) have been used for.This should have been a decent opportunity to put it to use assuming that the project was necessary.

I started a thread sometime ago on the various scams these people run
I will not let anyone 419 me out of my money if The Lord is not speaking to me.
One day after listening to a mega church pastor outline his vision of building a recreation and civic center in addition to the church and elementary school they currently have,I shook my head as they handed out envelopes for seed offering and pledges
How thinner can these pastors stretch the already stretched congregation
If I as babyosisi wants to build a civic center,I will walk up to the bank and ask for a loan and perhaps use my house as a collateral
Why do pastors of these one man churches hide under " thus says The Lord" to extort money from struggling people?
I have absolutely no stake in the elementary school he already has
I will have no stake whatsoever in the civic center and recreation facility
Why would a man and his wife decide on a new business venture but they come to me and other worshipers to fund their dream
Isn't that a korokoro fraud?
They don't offer me any shares in the business but I am expected to fund it?
That is wrong
We are actually the ones enabling these charlatans by endorsing everything they tell us with an Amen.
People ought to speak up and tell them to fund these things themselves and stop placing undue burden on the people of God
I am there to worship God not build your business empire
That Church building and everything in it is his property,owned entirely by him and inheritable by his sons and daughters but when he bought the piece of land he somehow made us believe it was all ours and the church building was ours too
That is lie
Go and look at the deed on that property if you doubt me ,the names on it are that of his wife and children .
People should wake up
Serve God yes,but don't let any men manipulate you and turn you to a mugu
Some eediots will even neglect the care of their aged parents and sick relatives because someone has brainwashed them that it is better to pay tithes and several offerings than take care of their sick old parents.where did that come from?


A church will be gathering millions in offering but will fail to employ people to sweep or clean the church
They will still want free labor from women and men who are expected to leave their homes on Saturdays to go and clean
Where did we learn this from?
In America churches hire janitors and pay them to clean
In all my years here,I have never been asked to come and clean any church,the only time i heard it was from a Nigerian congregation.
Churches here pay musicians
If the pastor is paid,why not the guitarist and keyboardist
They want everything for free even when the church is buoyant,why are the ministers not working for free?
Their wives and children are on the payroll but they want everyone else to work without pay.

A ministry that I am volunteering with here,owned by a Nigerian asked me to buy some paper products for an event and to bring the receipts to be reimbursed.That is how to do things,you respect the people,let it be up to me to decide not to ask for reimbursement,don't automatically make that decision for me because we are in the house of God,NO.

dein77:


Thanks for the inputs so far.

The RCCG administration is really flawed. I do worship there ATM. Almost everything gathered from the local parishes are forwarded to KM 46. Hence there's little or nothing left to handle local projects like land, building or equipment.

Almost everything is forwarded to KM 46.

You and I know that is VERY WRONG.
That is one of the plethora of reasons I left.

What about the needs of the local parish? Isnt it selfish to collect and send to km 46? Is it not immoral to claim that you are establishing parishes when it is obvious that the structures are being built by the congregstion?

What is being done with the several millions thay come in every sunday through tithes and offerings? How come they are not even used to sort the immediate needs of the parish, let alone the needy in the parish?

I think there is some serious deception going on in the area of finances.
If the original poster thinks that I won't ask questions about my money all because some charlatan is involved, then this thread is dead on arrival.

babyosisi:


I started a thread sometime ago on the various scams these people run
I will not let anyone 419 me out of my money if The Lord is not speaking to me.
One day after listening to a mega church pastor outline his vision of building a recreation and civic center in addition to the church and elementary school they currently have,I shook my head as they handed out envelopes for seed offering and pledges
How thinner can these pastors stretch the already stretched congregation
If I as babyosisi wants to build a civic center,I will walk up to the bank and ask for a loan and perhaps use my house as a collateral
Why do pastors of these one man churches hide under " thus says The Lord" to extort money from struggling people?
I have absolutely no stake in the elementary school he already has
I will have no stake whatsoever in the civic center and recreation facility
Why would a man and his wife decide on a new business venture but they come to me and other worshipers to fund their dream
Isn't that fraud?
They don't offer me any shares in the business but I am expected to fund it?
We are actually the ones enabling these charlatans by endorsing everything they tell us with an Amen.
People ought to speak up and tell them to fund these things themselves and stop placing undue burden on the people of God
That Church building and everything in it is his property,owned entirely by him and inheritable by his sons and daughters but when he bought the piece of land he somehow made us believe it was all ours
That is lie
Go and look at the deed on that property,the names on it are that of his wife and children .
People should wake up
Serve God yes,but don't let men manipulate you and turn you to a mugu

A church will be gathering millions in offering but will fail to employ people to sweep or clean the church
They will still want free labor from women and men who are expected to leave their homes on Saturdays to go and clean
Where did we learn this from?
In America churches hire janitors and pay them to clean
In all my years here,I have never been asked to come and clean any church,the only time o heard it was from a Nigerian congregation.
Churches here pay musicians
If the pastor is paid,why not the guitarist and keyboardist
They want everything for free

babyosisi,
I wish there were more Christians like you.

Really your brains are functioning.

My wife used to go every Saturday to clean the church. RCCg sees us as "workers" and as such they issue instructions based on that ideal.
So if my wife fails for any reason to go clean the church that Saturday, she is liable to querry from her head whivh if not satisfactorily answered could lead to suspension.
Musicians?the last Parish pastor suspended the choir and musicians because he felt they were not "committed".
I rest my case.

StarBoard:

You and I know that is VERY WRONG.
That is one of the plethora of reasons I left.

What about the needs of the local parish? Isnt it selfish to collect and send to km 46? Is it not immoral to claim that you are establishing parishes when it is obvious that the structures are being built by the congregstion?

What is being done with the several millions thay come in every sunday through tithes and offerings? How come they are not even used to sort the immediate needs of the parish, let alone the needy in the parish?

I think there is some serious deception going on in the area of finances.
If the original poster thinks that I won't ask questions about my money all because some charlatan is involved, then this thread is dead on arrival.

This is the reason many RCCG churches grow and the pastors eventually convert the parish to their own personal congregation and I don't blame them.
The biggest Nigerian church in Houston was also the first RCCG church in HOuston
Another one in Boston did same plus several others
The pastors suffer and go without and when they start getting more tithes and first fruits the headquarters insists on getting a large chunk of it and the pastors leave the church entirely so they can keep their hard earned proceeds.
If these pastors understand the principle and will not allow a headquarter church take away their earnings how then do the parishioners allow people con them into parting with so much of their money in the guise of doing it for God.
Many of these churches have no project for evangelism into unreached places,missions ,orphans or widows and the sick
Run into hard time they won't give you kobo
Their only vision is expansion and bigger church buildings and bigger donations and venturing into more businesses and connections with bigger preachers,TV ministry and meeting world leaders

I can put my money somewhere else where it will be appreciated

StarBoard:

You and I know that is VERY WRONG.
That is one of the plethora of reasons I left.

What about the needs of the local parish? Isnt it selfish to collect and send to km 46? Is it not immoral to claim that you are establishing parishes when it is obvious that the structures are being built by the congregstion?

What is being done with the several millions thay come in every sunday through tithes and offerings? How come they are not even used to sort the immediate needs of the parish, let alone the needy in the parish?

I think there is some serious deception going on in the area of finances.
If the original poster thinks that I won't ask questions about my money all because some charlatan is involved, then this thread is dead on arrival.

This madly flawed administrative method is also going to be one of the reasons I'm considering leaving the RCCG. It's all hurtful and backward.

Come and see the financial struggle we're experiencing in my parish!

We almost singlehandedly bought the land we are on, we're still building after more than 4 years, bought all the musical instruments, etc.

The most painful part is, even when we got almost nothing from the Province, we still remit about 85 % of our monthly income to the Province. This is callous. The men in my parish are already asking the right questions.

We keep building KM 46 while our local members and pastors are hungry, poor and sad. They barely live decent lives.

I wish to talk more....It's really depressing.

But for the personal revelations given to me by Christ, I would have stopped attending any Church.

I'm becoming increasingly disillusioned with the whole arrangements. ...

I challenge anyone reading to do this,I wrote it earlier
Seek out some very poor families you know in your church and divide that your tithe money into 4 ,give 3 parts to each of that family and the 4th part to your church.
The fulfillment of helping those families is unequaled
That your money may be what they have been praying for to enable them eat that whole week
You don't have to pray to know the poor people in your midst,you can see them with your eyes.
The Church is not giving them a dime from what they collect
It is you and I that are supposed to support them

Pure religion undefiled the Bible says,is to visit the widows and orphans in their affliction and to keep our garments spotless
It is not enriching an already rich pastor