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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / The Problem With Religion, Including Science. (8056 Views)
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Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by Kay17: 6:54pm On Dec 03, 2014 |
sinequanon: That is an interesting question. But what you think "doing science" is all about? Whatever picture you get out of that, is what science is. You said that you believe that science is a standard for "truth". This was what I said: I understand what he is saying. But the shortfall of his suggestion will send us on searches into the individual souls of each and every scientist to the point of absurdity. We would have to concern ourselves with how Carl Jung, Einstein, Oppenheimer, Darwin etc did their science. We will lose sight of the larger picture of science, which is a sum of efforts, and a standard for truth You must have been reading my posts with rose coloured lens. It is not true science makes an assumption that materialism all that prevails. 1 Like |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by plaetton: 7:02pm On Dec 03, 2014 |
AllNaijaBlogger: Time is relative to the conscious mind, in the same way that distance is relative to say an ant and a human, or to child and an adult. In the mind, everything is relative. But as long as events occur sequentially, the interval between events, in whatever way it is perceived in the consciousness, is real , and is Time. 1 Like |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by sinequanon: 7:08pm On Dec 03, 2014 |
Kay17: If you FULLY automated it, science would disappear. We don't say that nature does science. It just produces results -- "natural technology" and so forth. For science, there must be at least some form of human interpretation. The answer to my question really depends on the extent to which you think you can replace human creativity. Some scientists believe this creativity is an illusion and can be recreated by fixed logic machines. Kay17: You mean they are worse than I imagine? ![]() Kay17: Science claims that everything supervenes on a material world. |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by AllNaijaBlogger(m): 7:08pm On Dec 03, 2014 |
plaetton: How can you claim that the interval is real after saying that time is relative? If we perceived things at the speed of light, a the length of a day would be a millisecond. No interval. That 24 hour interval has been reduced to o.oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo1 |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by plaetton: 7:11pm On Dec 03, 2014 |
AllNaijaBlogger: The duration of time relative, not time itself. o.oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo1 is still an interval. |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by AllNaijaBlogger(m): 7:36pm On Dec 03, 2014 |
plaetton: Time is a duration. Also, the figure you put there also represents the percentage of probability that if I shake a box of random lego pieces, it would form a lego castle. That figure is not really different from zero |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by plaetton: 7:42pm On Dec 03, 2014 |
AllNaijaBlogger: It was your figure. It is A universe away from being zero. |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by AllNaijaBlogger(m): 7:46pm On Dec 03, 2014 |
plaetton: 0 milliseconds, 0 seconds, 0 minutes, 0 hours. A lot of zeros actually 1 microsecond – the length of time of a high-speed, commercial strobe light flash (see air-gap flash). |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by plaetton: 8:08pm On Dec 03, 2014 |
AllNaijaBlogger: To a microbe whose entire lifespan is just a few hours, that millisecond is a long long time. |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by AllNaijaBlogger(m): 8:24pm On Dec 03, 2014 |
plaetton: And to a human, a microsecond is no time at all. |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by plaetton: 8:59pm On Dec 03, 2014 |
AllNaijaBlogger:That's my point. The interval is there, but the duration is relative. |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by AllNaijaBlogger(m): 9:06pm On Dec 03, 2014 |
plaetton: Wrong, there is no interval. There is only a perception of an interval. |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by plaetton: 9:43pm On Dec 03, 2014 |
AllNaijaBlogger: Let me tell you, there is a time interval between the time you do something, and the time you become even aware of it. In other words, you take an action long before you become aware of it. But your brain tricks you into thinking that you were fully aware before you took the action. |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by AllNaijaBlogger(m): 9:44pm On Dec 03, 2014 |
plaetton: noted |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by Nobody: 9:49pm On Dec 03, 2014 |
AllNaijaBlogger: I'm sorry that was your interpretation, that wasn't my intention. My intention has always been to educate. And for the record, I'm not an atheist |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by sinequanon: 11:01pm On Dec 03, 2014 |
AllNaijaBlogger:plaetton post=28570561:noted LOL, ignorance teaching ignorance. He is confusing his argument with the idea that people make decisions before they are aware of making the decision. You are of course normally aware before you actually carry out the action, DUH. Once again, he is regurgitating stuff he has no experience of. If you really want to know what is going on, pay attention to yourself, as in the example I gave on the first page. You can actually feel the decision making and communication process and don't have to rely on silly interpretations that scientists dream up. sinequanon: |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by Kay17: 11:05pm On Dec 03, 2014 |
sinequanon:Despite the fact that the aim of the researches had long turned away from finding gold?! They would not contribute to the body of scholarship called science.Hence it is not science and probably something else. That is not possible. A metaphysical entity is one that scientists have deemed inscrutable by science. But if they decide to begin a research on the metaphysical, it would remain science, right?! 1 Like |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by sinequanon: 11:12pm On Dec 03, 2014 |
Kay17: Too vague. You asked about early "science". Now you are moving it back. At some point scientists deem it to be science. Kay17: Scientists decide what is science. Kay17: If it is scientific research, by definition the subject of it is not metaphysical. What part of that don't you understand? |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by Kay17: 11:24pm On Dec 03, 2014 |
sinequanon: Yes, early science strung from alchemy, which is the search for gold by mixing and distilling other metals but you could be right. Scientists decide what is science.The ultimate question: who are scientists? If it is scientific research, by definition the subject of it is not metaphysical. What part of that don't you understand? Since the scientists have decided to exclude metaphysics. ok 1 Like |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by sinequanon: 11:34pm On Dec 03, 2014 |
Kay17: Even alchemy had the rudiments of a peer review system. I don't think it is a black and white transition. Kay17: They are a group of people who have established themselves under a mission statement (currently one of materialism) and have sold it to layfolk as the holy grail of civilization. |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by Kay17: 11:43pm On Dec 03, 2014 |
sinequanon: The can be any club, company or partnership in the world. Especially when you have held that the mission or purpose of these scientists is unimportant because these people can decide whatever purpose they want! We have reached the bottom of the absurdity you are digging. Wherein you have reduced science to the whims of a club. Science definitely is beyond this. Science must have an identity dissimilar from a boating club. 1 Like |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by sinequanon: 11:57pm On Dec 03, 2014 |
Kay17: Don't try to steer the discussion by misquoting me, and hoping that I will respond to it. That tactic won't work. I will only pursue a debate about what I have actually said. If you can't find a direct way to make your point, we can leave it there. |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by plaetton: 12:15am On Dec 04, 2014 |
sinequanon:Lol. I see a problem with comprehension here. I never mentioned a thing about decision making. I am talking about awareness of the action after it been taken, not the decision to take the action . The action precedes the awareness of the action. 1 Like |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by sinequanon: 12:18am On Dec 04, 2014 |
plaetton: Well, that explains all of your posts. |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by Kay17: 12:19am On Dec 04, 2014 |
sinequanon: I did not misquote you. You were perfectly clear. 1 Like |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by sinequanon: 12:23am On Dec 04, 2014 |
Kay17: Well, keep studying your last post until you discover the discrepancy. I won't be drawn. |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by plaetton: 1:11am On Dec 04, 2014 |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by AllNaijaBlogger(m): 5:35am On Dec 04, 2014 |
plaetton: I understand your point. If I decide to slap someone and do it, it would take microseconds for my nerves to travel information from my hands to my brain to register the slap when it connects. 1 Like |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by PastorAIO: 1:52pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
Thsuperiorman: The Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection. Evolution has never been observed, neither has the theory been used to make an prognosis that has been proved true. We have witnessed the fact that species are adapted to their environment however we've never witnessed how they come to adapt to their environment. This theory is Subjective. Who said maths was science? I said 1+1=2 is an objective fact. Maths may be applied to the real world but it doesn't need any reference to the real world to exist or to be practiced. 1+1=2 is NOT an objective fact. The numbers used in maths refer to generalities while real world observations are of Specific instances of events. so 1+1=2 is actually strictly speaking 1x+1x=2x. So the question becomes, what is x? if x is a specific orange then 1+1 is NOT=2 An orange added to itself remains An orange. If however, x is applied to a general concept called Oranges. Then one instance of an orange plus another separate instance of an orange will yield two instances of oranges. but here the Oranges are not specific identities they are a general class. We could also have x referring to Fruits rather than oranges. Or even more widely to Things. Thereby one thing plus another separate thing will give you two things. But you see, we are talking about general classes which are formed by abstractions not from actually empirical experience. |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by Nobody: 6:45pm On Dec 07, 2014 |
PastorAIO: Okay, clearly you know very little ( I mean like 1%) or nothing about evolution and natural selection. I've been studying it for close to 5 years and maybe you skimmed through some text book. So I'm sorry I can't summarize 5 years or better still I wouldn't want you to take my word for it. But you would do good to your knowledge to read more about evolution, go to museums in London, United states, any where with good and reliable fossil or fossil record information. Read about radioactive dating, know why we cannot observe evolution etc. Then we can have a more beneficial discussion about those basic theories you are claiming to disprove as being facts (though you didn't do anything remotely close to trying to disprove them, but your accusations points to that)(No offense) PastorAIO: Gosh! This is goading Permit me to ignore what you said about 1+1=2 not being an objective fact because that would make you a disgrace to knowledge in general but, let me put it this way (I hope you get it this time) Maybe the numbers are confusing you If I keep ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() What could influence the fact that after bringing ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Now, if you say ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() (Note: I didn't ask if something or someone could perceive or experience them as anything else). No, because what is on the table "IS" ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() That is true (existential fact i.e objective)irrespective of what anything or anybody thinks of ![]() ![]() I can't believe I'm explaining "this" |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by LordReed(m): 6:56pm On Dec 07, 2014 |
Thsuperiorman: Uh, I think you are missing his point which is that Mathematics is an abstraction and can be practiced without "affiliation" to real world objects. 1 Like |
Re: The Problem With Religion, Including Science. by PastorAIO: 9:03pm On Dec 07, 2014 |
LordReed: Thank you. |
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