@coogar crackhaus

Can you name one disease a circumcised man can have that an uncircumcised man cannot have while I will go the opposite route and name a disease an uncircumcised man can have which a circumcised man cannot. Deal?

cococandy:
like I said before,there is no proof that circumcsion impedes sexuall pleasure.

All these POTENTIAL problems of circumcision in males are slim to almost non existent if compared to the rate of those who have done it successfully.
But like I said before,if that slim chance is enough to make you not want to circumsize your son, feel free to.
If on the other hand you think it is enough to start a movement against circumcision of boys, I will will support you.......from afar

But don't be getting in our way in our campaign against FGM. Whether you mean it or you're just kidding.
You have to know some people take nairaland too seriously.

this is not about any of us here - we are just arguing. the question you have been evading over more than 2 hours ago is still unanswered.

why is male circumcision accepted & female circumcision is a criminal offence? let's leave each other's babies out of it for once & argue constructively.

LordReed:
@coogar crackhaus
Can you name one disease a circumcised man can have that an uncircumcised man cannot have while I will go the opposite route and name a disease an uncircumcised man can have which a circumcised man cannot. Deal?

how about infant mortality that is attached to circümcised male babies? what else could be worse than the death of a child? is this what you condone?

this is another documented case of post-circumcision meningitis in a male infant in nigeria. read the symptoms suffered by this innocent boy...


https://ispub.com/IJPN/5/2/10572

AO, an 11-month-old boy was admitted into the children isolation ward of the Wesley Guild Hospital, Ilesa: an affiliate unit of the Obafemi Awolowo University, Ile-Ife, Nigeria, on the 26th of July 2004. He had been feverish 2-days prior admission. He subsequently developed irritability and convulsive movements of the lower limbs, but was feeding well through out this period. He had been circumcised 3 days before the onset of fever.

A nurse colleague of his father had earlier circumcised him at home but he bled moderately during the procedure, and this was controlled with extra dressing and pressure. The past medical history was not contributory. His mother was a 36-year-old civil servant and Father, a 42-year-old orthopaedic nurse.

Physical examination revealed a conscious, acutely ill, pale and febrile infant with an axillary temperature of 38.1°C. He was anicteric and pale, but irritable. The heart rate and respiratory rate were 180 beats and 72 cycles per minute respectively. Besides the presence of moderate hepatosplenomegaly, no other abnormalities were detected. However, the penile glans was still raw and septic. The yet unchanged dressing was still bloodstained.


Septicaemia was diagnosed. His haematocrit was 26 percent. Lumbar puncture revealed turbid Cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) on the basis of which, he was commenced on intravenous fluids, Ampicillin and Gentamicin. The gram staining revealed gram-positive cocci in clusters. Unfortunately, CSF proteins were not estimated. But the CSF microscopy showed 20 white and 2 red blood cells per cubic millimetre. His random blood sugar and CSF glucose were 7.4 and 0.5 millimoles per litre respectively.

Twenty hours later, he convulsed and lapsed into unconsciousness with bulging anterior fontanelle and generalised increase of muscle tone. The convulsions were terminated with intravenous Diazepam. The culture of both the wound swab and CSF yielded Staphylococcus aureus with similar antibiotic sensitivity and resistance. The antibiotic was changed to intravenous Ciprofloxacin, in line with the antibiotics sensitivity pattern obtained. Also, he was given intravenous Dexamethasone and intramuscular Phenobarbitone to forestall further convulsions. The patient made a good recovery and was discharge on the 12th day post admission.

most definitely, the pros surely outweigh the cons.

BABE3:


Please tell us the advantages and the disadvantages and lets see how they outweigh each other. Tell us how these advantages make circumcised males sèxually healthier than the uncircumcised ones.

In the new guidelines, the CDC says there is now strong evidence that male circumcision can:
Cut a man's risk of getting HIV from an infected female partner by 50 to 60 per cent.
Reduce their risk of genital herpes and certain strains of human papillomavirus by 30 per cent or more.
Lower the odds of urinary tract infections during infancy, and cancer of the penis in adulthood.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2860727/Benefits-circumcision-outweigh-risks-Procedure-cuts-risk-HIV-STDs-penile-cancer-official-report-declares.html#ixzz3L9xLCksv
This was from a research carried out at John Hopkins.

As for why the rate of male circumcision is dropping,it is because of protest movement from people who think like coogar. You know how Americans like to be liberal minded,so it is not surprising that there are parents who want to give their boys the chance to make that choice for themselves.
I totally respect that decision

coogar:


this is not about any of us here - we are just arguing. the question you have been evading over more than 2 hours ago is still unanswered.

why is male circumcision accepted & female circumcision is a criminal offence? let's leave each other's babies out of it for once & argue constructively.



how about infant mortality that is attached to circümcised male babies? what else could be worse than the death of a child? is this what you condone?

this is another documented case of post-circumcision meningitis in a male infant in nigeria. read the symptoms suffered by this innocent boy...


https://ispub.com/IJPN/5/2/10572

When regular hygiene is not maintained, a white cheesy discharge called smegma may accumulate beneath the foreskin. Continued poor hygiene can lead to infections and urinary tract infections.

Is this what you condone?

LordReed:


When regular hygiene is not maintained, a white cheesy discharge called smegma may accumulate beneath the foreskin. Continued poor hygiene can lead to infections and urinary tract infections.

Is this what you condone?

this is also a risk for uncircumcised females - you didn't get the memo?

coogar:


this is not about any of us here - we are just arguing. the question you have been evading over more than 2 hours ago is still unanswered.

why is male circumcision accepted & female circumcision is a criminal offence? let's leave each other's babies out of it for once & argue constructively.

D

im not aware of the law (in Nigeria at least) that makes female circumcision a criminal offense.I could be wrong
If there is such a law, kudos to the government

I've answered this your question severally coogar. Male circumcision is done in the best interest of the boy while female circumcision is done with the warped mentality that it will keep her sexuallly in check.
Even if FGM has no disadvantages whatsoever,that reason is enough to ban the whole practice universally.

coogar:


this is also a risk for uncircumcised females - you didn't get the memo?

And females don't have complications arising from poorly done circumcisions?

Anyway let's stick with the males for now. Have another go.

LordReed:
@coogar crackhaus

Can you name one disease a circumcised man can have that an uncircumcised man cannot have while I will go the opposite route and name a disease an uncircumcised man can have which a circumcised man cannot. Deal?

Infant Mortality!

chic2pimp:


Infant Mortality!

Uncircumcised males are also subject so it doesn't qualify.

Why in turky they didnot know the Female circümcised it is an islam country and in turky no woman will get it.

This female circümcised comes from egypt for the woman and from the jewish for man.

Female circümcised comes from the egypt pharaos and we have about 4 different ones.

In kenya is a hospital who help woman after childbird because many have big problems.

FGM may complicate pregnancy and place women at higher risk for obstetrical problems, which are more common with the more extensive FGM procedures. ] In women with Type III who have developed vesicovaginal or rectovaginal fistulae (holes that allow urine or faeces to seep into the vagina), it is difficult to obtain clear urine samples as part of prenatal care, making the diagnosis of conditions such as pre-eclampsia harder. Cervical evaluation during labour may be impeded and labour prolonged. Third-degree laceration, anal-sphincter damage and emergency caesarean section are more common in infibulated women. Neonatal mortality is increased. The WHO estimated in 2006 that an additional 10–20 babies die per 1,000 deliveries as a result of FGM. The estimate was based on a study conducted on 28,393 women attending delivery wards at 28 obstetric centres in Burkina Faso, Ghana, Kenya, Nigeria, Senegal and Sudan. In those settings all types of FGM were found to pose an increased risk of death to the baby: 15 percent higher for Type I, 32 percent for Type II and 55 percent for Type III.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation

LordReed:


And females don't have complications arising from poorly done circumcisions?

Anyway let's stick with the males for now. Have another go.

you don't seem to get my point probably because you came late. i am not arguing for/against circumcision. my argument is based on what is good for the goose should be good for the gander.

if you think circumcision is wrong for women then same argument should stand for men. if you think circumcision is ok for women then the same should stand for men. don't nitpick & tell me one gender is pain-compliant & the other gender is fragile.

cococandy:
im not aware of the law (in Nigeria at least) that makes female circumcision a criminal offense.I could be wrong
If there is such a law, kudos to the government

so you dunno there's a strong campaign against FGM in africa? my argument is - where's the campaign against MGM?

I've answered this your question severally coogar. Male circumcision is done in the best interest of the boy while female circumcision is done with the warped mentality that it will keep her sexuallly in check.
Even if FGM has no disadvantages whatsoever,that reason is enough to ban the whole practice universally.

but we have told you the practise keeps both genders in check. boys lose penile sensitivity as the removed foreskin contains plenty of nerve endings. uncut men enjoy sėx much more!

cococandy:

In the new guidelines, the CDC says there is now strong evidence that male circumcision can:
Cut a man's risk of getting HIV from an infected female partner by 50 to 60 per cent.
Reduce their risk of genital herpes and certain strains of human papillomavirus by 30 per cent or more.
Lower the odds of urinary tract infections during infancy, and cancer of the penis in adulthood.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2860727/Benefits-circumcision-outweigh-risks-Procedure-cuts-risk-HIV-STDs-penile-cancer-official-report-declares.html#ixzz3L9xLCksv
This was from a research carried out at John Hopkins.

As for why the rate of male circumcision is dropping,it is because of protest movement from people who think like coogar. You know how Americans like to be liberal minded,so it is not surprising that there are parents who want to give their boys the chance to make that choice for themselves.
I totally respect that decision

And I can also pull out 10s of researches that says that study up there is crap. Correlation isn't causation. The issue of circumcision and lower risk of STDs is still very much an ongoing debate.
But like many things, the more we repeat the claim, the more we believe it, even if it false.

GUD (genital ulcerative disease) is a disease associated with an Uncircum.P; Urethritis is a associated with circum.P.

Guess which of those diseases is more prevalent in America? Urethritis! Added to the fact that there are more Uncircumcised men roaming about.

cococandy:


As for why the rate of male circumcision is dropping,it is because of protest movement from people who think like coogar. You know how Americans like to be liberal minded,so it is not surprising that there are parents who want to give their boys the chance to make that choice for themselves.
I totally respect that decision

Presently, America is the only advanced western country with a relatively high rate of circumcision.
And what country is more liberal than USA? None. So you wonder why they're still hanging on to male circumcision.
It's simply because it's profitable for their health system. Male circumcision is unnecessary.

coogar:



so you dunno there's a strong campaign against FGM in africa? my argument is - where's the campaign against MGM?

I am aware of the campaign. That doesn't mean it has been entered into law as a criminal offense.(to the best of my knowledge)

How I wish ...

Hey coogar so you don't know there is a campaign against male circumcision? Kai. Your sleeping on top bike o.
Better go put your mouth where your mb is.

but we have told you the practise keeps both genders in check. boys lose penile sensitivity as the removed foreskin contains plenty of nerve endings. uncut men enjoy sėx much more!

bollocks

See your club people BTW

LordReed:


Uncircumcised males are also subject so it doesn't qualify.

It does not qualify. Says who? Infant Mortality is more prevalent in circumcised males than it is in uncircumsed male children.

cococandy:

I am aware of the campaign. That doesn't mean it has been entered into law as a criminal offense.(to the best of my knowledge)

How I wish ...

Hey coogar so you don't know there is a campaign against male circumcision? Kai. Your sleeping on top bike o.
Better go put your mouth where your mb is.

is that africa? i see 2 white male caucasoids holding a banner. where's the equivalent of the FGM campaign in africa?

bollocks
See your club people BTW

i want to see the western support of the abolition of male circumcision in africa - if it happens then parity is restored.

chic2pimp:

It does not qualify. Says who? Infant Mortality is more prevalent in circumcised males than it is in uncircumsed male children.

lordreed is just trolling.
plenty of boys have died after their circumcision - what could be worse than the death of a son?

coogar:


you don't seem to get my point probably because you came late. i am not arguing for/against circumcision. my argument is based on what is good for the goose should be good for the gander.

if you think circumcision is wrong for women then same argument should stand for men. if you think circumcision is ok for women then the same should stand for men. don't nitpick & tell me one gender is pain-compliant & the other gender is fragile.

Male and female reproductive organs are not the same so you can't do a one to one mapping and say anything good for the goose is good for the gander. Take for instance menstruation. Males don't experience it so no need for panty liners and stuff but going by the axiom then we must make boys wear panty liners because its good for girls? Females don't have any condition that will be solved by female circumcision, males do.

If that study from John Hopkins is not worthy of consideration,permit me to disregard any other.
Clearly every research is dismissible.



The US doesn't enforce male child circumcision.

BABE3:



And I can also pull out 10s of researches that says that study up there is crap. Correlation isn't causation. The issue of circumcision and lower risk of STDs is still very much an ongoing debate.
But like many things, the more we repeat the claim, the more we believe it, even if it false.

GUD (genital ulcerative disease) is a disease associated with an Uncircum.P; Urethritis is a associated with circum.P.

Guess which of those diseases is more prevalent in America? Urethritis! Added to the fact that there are more Uncircumcised men roaming about.




Presently, America is the only advanced western country with a relatively high rate of circumcision.
And what country is more liberal than USA? None. So you wonder why they're still hanging on to male circumcision.
It's simply because it's profitable for their system. Male circumcision is unnecessary.

chic2pimp:


It does not qualify. Says who? Infant Mortality is more prevalent in circumcised males than it is in uncircumsed male children.

For the discussion I issued a condition, read the post again.

Please provide a link to the statistic.

LordReed:

Male and female reproductive organs are not the same so you can't do a one to one mapping and say anything good for the goose is good for the gander. Take for instance menstruation. Males don't experience it so no need for panty liners and stuff but going by the axiom then we must make boys wear panty liners because its good for girls? Females don't have any condition that will be solved by female circumcision, males do.

how are they not the same?
clitorïs - a flesh of nerve endings
foreskin - a flesh of nerve endings

what's the difference in what is being removed? why shouldn't we do one to one mapping of the two sëxes when the major criticisms of FGM hinges on....

•lack of consent
•child abuse
•control of lïbido
•painful experience
•reduction of sexual pleasure.

which of these 5 points is excluded when you circumcise a male baby? did he give you consent that the female baby cannot give? yet you compare the deliberate mutilation of male kids to menstruation.

do women die because they menstruate? what kinda analogy is this for feck's sake? how can you argue that girls are abused during circumcision but boys aren't?

coogar:


is that africa? i see 2 white male caucasoids holding a banner. where's the equivalent of the FGM campaign in africa?



i want to see the western support of the abolition of male circumcision in africa.

you're an African man. Who better to kick up the protest than you? You're young and full of strength. Do the male folk this honor.

If western hospitals allow parents of boys who don't want their sons circumsized to be,what makes you think they won't support Africans who want to do the same?

And why do we need western support.

coogar:


lordreed is just trolling.
plenty of boys have died after their circumcision - what could be worse than the death of a son?

Beats me too.
Don't know of any ailment greater than death or do you?

cococandy:
If that study from John Hopkins is not worthy of consideration,permit me to disregard any other.
Clearly every research is dismissible.

The US doesn't enforce male child circumcision.

Yes, US doesn't enforce it; they know they can't. So what better way to make people like you think it's a must to circumcise your male child than to start promoting the myth that uncircumcision causes STDs/STIs ?

Though more parents are starting to realize it's büllshït.

cococandy:
you're an African man. Who better to kick up the protest than you? You're young and full of strength. Do the male folk this honor.

If western hospitals allow parents of boys who don't want their sons circumsized to be,what makes you think they won't support Africans who want to do the same?

And why do we need western support.

the western support is the pillar behind the FGM campaign in africa. i remember the UK pledging £35m last year to fight against FGM. where's the MGM equivalent?

chic2pimp:


Beats me too.
Don't know of any ailment greater than death or do you?

let's just assume he's under the influence of shekpe

LordReed:


For the discussion I issued a condition, read the post again.

Please provide a link to the statistic.

What conditions did you issue?

Cococandy,

I have been following this debate and it was very interesting. I have simultaneously done some research and it is CLEAR AND OBVIOUS that female circumcision cannot be compared to male circumcision. Female circumcision has no advantages but is harmful and bears risks which are more often than not dangerous to mother and child during child birth. The effects of female circumcision are more often than not devastating.

By contrast male circumcision is debatable. There are pros and cons, that much is obvious.

You have been arguing that the advantages outweigh. I have read English and German websites and medical journals and I am not 100% sure but the evidence seems to favor your stand on this matter.

The following source is a good summary and a reliable source and I can comfortably say that it states what most serious sources from the English and German speaking world state.

Medical researchers recommend male circumcision

2 March 2012

Penile cancer, HIV, HPV, syphilis and kidney inflammation are among a number of medical conditions whose risk can be lowered by the practice of infant male circumcision, says a study led by the University of Sydney.

The review of current international evidence for the benefits and risks of infant male circumcision is published today in the Open Journal of Preventive Medicine.

"This is the world's first evidence-based policy on infant circumcision and its authors include five Fellows of the Royal Australasian College of Physicians," lead author, Professor Brian Morris, from Sydney Medical School at the University, said.

"The evidence in favour of infant circumcision is now so strong that advocating this simple, inexpensive procedure for baby boys is about as effective and safe as childhood vaccination".

The study points out that many common childhood conditions, including kidney damage, will become rare if baby boys are circumcised in the first weeks of life.

Circumcision was found to protect men, and their sexual partners, from several common sexually transmitted infections, as well as cancers of the penis and cervix.

"The scientific evidence shows no adverse effects on sexual function, sensitivity, satisfaction or sensation - if anything the opposite," said Professor Morris.

The policy suggests that for maximum benefits, safety, convenience and cost savings, circumcision should be performed in infancy and with local anaesthesia. It claims that the risk-benefit analysis shows benefits outweigh minor risks by a factor of over 100 to 1.

"It is now up to state governments to ensure that bans on elective infant male circumcision in public hospitals are lifted without delay. And it is essential that the federal government revises the Medicare rebate so that this procedure is affordable for low-income families.

"The costs saved will be enormous, as this policy statement shows that half of uncircumcised males will suffer an adverse medical condition over their lifetime, and many will die as a result of diseases preventable by circumcision," Professor Morris said.

The 12 authors of the published study include the University's Professor Stephen Leeder, Director, Menzies Centre for Health Policy; Associate Professor Leslie Schrieber, Sydney Medical School; and Professor Adrian Mindel, Director of the Sexually Transmitted Infections Research Centre.

http://sydney.edu.au/news/84.html?newsstoryid=8755

coogar:


let's just assume he's under the influence of shekpe

Extremely high

Ok, those against Male circumcision do something about it and those against Female circumcision do something about it.

Blowing hot air on NL won't make a difference apart from perhaps raising awareness.

How much right does a child have to decide his own or Her own destiny?

Children are
Circumcised at birth/childhood
Denied the breast and fed formula
Dragged to the church, mosque or wherever the family shrine may be

So what do we do?

Everyone has to be involved in what should and shouldn't happen to their children but to what degree?

Who decides, The state or the parent?

There is no easy solution so we should start with those practice that have clear benefits ie breast feeding and debate those which are less obvious or plainly harmful

I wonder what would be the argument if all circumcision is carried out in the best institutions by highly trained staff.

I am in no way supporting circumcision I am just wondering

coogar:


how are they not the same?
clitorïs - a flesh of nerve endings
foreskin - a flesh of nerve endings

what's the difference in what is being removed? why shouldn't we do one to one mapping of the two sëxes when the major criticisms of FGM hinges on....

•lack of consent
•child abuse
•control of lïbido
•painful experience
•reduction of sexual pleasure.

which of these 5 points is excluded when you circumcise a male baby? did he give you consent that the female baby cannot give? yet you compare the deliberate mutilation of male kids to menstruation.

do women die because they menstruate? what kinda analogy is this for feck's sake? how can you argue that girls are abused during circumcision but boys aren't?

Please stop this nonsense of seeking consent from a baby. Do you seek consent before sticking a needle into a baby's àss for inoculations? Is it not painful and traumatic, don't things go wrong? That's the silliest excuse to ever bring up in discussing what is good for a child, that the child cannot give consent. Of course he/she can't bloody well give consent or else they won't need you to be parents.

If you want to compare the specific parts of the male and female sexual organs then the clitoris is akin to the glans not the foreskin.

Circumcision for males has never had as its goal control of libido so I don't know what that is doing there.

How is it child abuse to make a decision for the well being of a child?

I specifically asked you to name a disease that only affects circumcised males and the best you could come up with was a situation where the circumcision was poorly done and call me trolling. Your responses are more of emotional outbursts than an attempt to really look at the evidence.

coogar:


let's just assume he's under the influence of shekpe

You are just a clown.

Lol. So who is changing my b***** feeding to bosom feeding?
Political correctness gone mad!

chic2pimp:

What conditions did you issue?

Post up where you got your statistics from and I will repost my post.