frank317:


Good now I think you have gotten my drift... I I won't get to hia unreasonable question from you again.

Why is it unreasonable? Because you cant answer?
You said you don't know that is the point so stop saying what you don't know if your beliefs have nothing to do with faith.

aaronson:
Op,face it,you 've just defeated the purpose for religion with the topic of your thread 'STUPIDITY' Now,If the doctrine of your God permits you to call an atheist like me stupid then your God isn't worth serving because atheist like me takes morality a top priority and prior to that I'm conscious of badmouthing people inorderwords,Atheist don't do God,We do Good so who's seems stupid now?

Lmao this doesn't make the question go

I know that God exist....
I have faith that God exist...

Chose one bro... I have no time for silliness.

sufido123:
Hjf

You conceded that you have no proof of God. This is important despite your claim that your belief is based on faith. Faith is not a choice though. You can't see white and say it is black because you have faith it is so.

Your denial of being abusive does not make sense. The caption of your thread belies the denial!
You should care about which God is real because your belief is mostly based on fear of eternal damnation. If you choose the wrong God assuming there is any God, you will face this damnation. Therefore saying that you don't care which is the real God is asinine.

It seems to me that no meaningful distinction exists between getting the God wrong but believing in something and getting the God wrong but not believing in anything.

I personally do not care about the physics or chemistry of the formation of the world, all I know is that there is no evidence of God.

Whether you believe or not in any deity, you must agree that this is a very intelligent and cerebral analysis. I give this guy 1000 likes. On this argument he is winning.

benalvino1:

Faith don't work with proof... the creation of earth in the bible and the God that create humans documented in the bible is what I believe... I don't use Hubble telescope to start talking crap.

This thread is not about me proving anything but about atheists who base their beliefs on backs to back up the creation of the universe with facts

You have used the classic religious cop out-begging the question. When it gets to the circular reasoning point I know that you've have nothing else but to hide under "I believe it because it is in the bible." Thank you for your time any way, it has been fun.

Take heed from your bible learn to rein in your tongue otherwise your religious beliefs are in vain.

benalvino1:

Why is it unreasonable? Because you cant answer?
You said you don't know that is the point so stop saying what you don't know if your beliefs have nothing to do with faith.

OK, ur belief has some thing to do with faith... So therefore you know what u are talking. Since when is faith the source of knowledge?

What belief by that way?

Everyone can now open thread on Nairaland and yarn rubbish.

benalvino1:

That's not the issue
Open a thread for that

I guess you can't answer that. We can ask the universe for signs that we want but ultimately we only see what we want to see. Funny people.

benalvino1:

Faith don't work with proof... the creation of earth in the bible and the God that create humans documented in the bible is what I believe... I don't use Hubble telescope to start talking crap.

This thread is not about me proving anything but about atheists who base their beliefs on backs to back up the creation of the universe with facts

I have to commend you for admitting that all you have is faith. At least you're an honest person. Probably even the first one to admit that on NL.

asala1:


I guess you can't answer that. We can ask the universe for signs that we want but ultimately we only see what we want to see. Funny people.

What signs?
Bible has said the earth was round long before scientist confirm it... then their belief was flat earth... bible said the universe is expanding long before science realized that...

I don't need any sign the bible said it... and yes I belief through faith.

benalvino1:


What signs?
Bible has said the earth was round long before scientist confirm it... then their belief was flat earth... bible said the universe is expanding long before science realized that...

I don't need any sign the bible said it... and yes I belief through faith.

Same Christianity that puts Galileo in house arrest because he said that the earth is not in the center of the Universe? My simple question which you tried dodging is "If God created the world. who created this God?

Bible? The same bible that said your ancestors are some Hebrew people (Adam and Eve). Guy, travel around the world and see that the bible creation story is just one out of the thousands of creation stories. Tell a man from China, Japan or an Indian that they are from Adam and Even, they will just laugh at you and think you are a mad man.

Have you thought of this: Why will God create everyone in the world and loves one tribe over another? Do you know that according to the stories in the bible, If the Israelites were passing through Nigeria during their exodus, they would have destroyed your country, kill your parents, brothers, rape your sisters and take your children as slaves.

asala1:


Same Christianity that puts Galileo in house arrest because he said that the earth is not in the center of the Universe? My simple question which you tried dodging is "If God created the world. who created this God?

Bible? The same bible that said your ancestors are some Hebrew people (Adam and Eve). Guy, travel around the world and see that the bible creation story is just one out of the thousands of creation stories. Tell a man from China, Japan or an Indian that they are from Adam and Even, they will just laugh at you and think you are a mad man.

Have you thought of this: Why will God create everyone in the world and loves one tribe over another? Do you know that according to the stories in the bible, If the Israelites were passing through Nigeria during their exodus, they would have destroyed your country, kill your parents, brothers, rape your sisters and take your children as slaves.

So you couldn't answer the question eh?

sufido123

Atheism is not a belief system as you stated. It is a state of unbelief. You dismiss Budha as God but get upset when someone else dismisses your own God. There is no evidence there is any God period.

Dude, Buddah is not a God. Buddahism doesn't claim Buddah is a god. If you mentioned Islam, or Judaism I will agree with you. Atheism is a belief system in the non-existence of God; you have to "believe" there is no God to be an Atheist.

You may claim that you believe there is God but mere belief is not evidence. Furthermore, belief is not a choice. It is either day or night. You cannot choose to believe that it is daytime at night. You would be deemed insane if you do won't you?

Evidence? Really? Before we proceed I want to you to be objective, if you are - I will engage. Belief is based on so many things one of which is evidence. Typical example - I believe your parents gave birth to you. I don't believe you are a product of two he goats. Now, we can easily prove whether my belief is true or false. We can take the same approach to prove God.

slyfox5555:
sufido123



Dude, Buddah is not a God. Buddahism doesn't claim Buddah is a god. If you mentioned Islam, or Judaism I will agree with you. Atheism is a belief system in the non-existence of God; you have to "believe" there is no God to be an Atheist.



Evidence? Really? Before we proceed I want to you to be objective, if you are - I will engage. Belief is based on so many things one of which is evidence. Typical example - I believe your parents gave birth to you. I don't believe you are a product of two he goats. Now, we can easily prove whether my belief is true or false. We can take the same approach to prove God.

Its funny how the matter or atom that gave birth to the universe is smaller than my hand yet the earth alone is big,
Out of nothing an explosion bam then the universe was born.

asala1

Same Christianity that puts Galileo in house arrest because he said that the earth is not in the center of the Universe? My simple question which you tried dodging is "If God created the world. who created this God?

Get your facts straight, Christianity never put Galileo under house arrest, the Catholics did. Also, the Bible never claimed that the earth was the center of our universe. Please stop stretching the facts as you are mis-representing them

Bible? The same bible that said your ancestors are some Hebrew people (Adam and Eve). Guy, travel around the world and see that the bible creation story is just one out of the thousands of creation stories. Tell a man from China, Japan or an Indian that they are from Adam and Even, they will just laugh at you and think you are a mad man.

So the creation story of the universe as described in the Bible is irrelevant? Care of offer your version of how we got here?

Have you thought of this: Why will God create everyone in the world and loves one tribe over another? Do you know that according to the stories in the bible, If the Israelites were passing through Nigeria during their exodus, they would have destroyed your country, kill your parents, brothers, rape your sisters and take your children as slaves.

You seem not to have read the Bible very well. Let me give you examples before you choose only one side. Israel has suffered more for idolatry than any nation in the world. God has dealt with them more than their enemies. God chose to use them to reveal the true God to the world but this privilege carried a great responsibility. So, let us read the accounts:

1. The 1st war the Israelite s fought was a direct assault from the Amalekites. There was a shorter way from Egypt to Canaan, but the Amalekites were there. So God took them through a hazardous wilderness to avoid any confrontation. But while they were resting at Rephidim, the Amalekites suddenly attacked - unprovoked, determined to destroy Israel. Read Exodus 17:8-18
2. Read Moses plea to the King of Edom to pass through his borders and the King refused- Numbers 20:14-20. This account seems to contradict what you said above.
3. Here is another one - Numbers 21:21-24. Israel asked Sihon king of the Amorites for safe passage but he refused and fought Israel.

From the above, I wonder how it tallies with your account. From history; it's either the historical records as described are wrong and you are right or it's right and you are wrong - which is it?

benalvino2:


Its funny how the matter or atom that gave birth to the universe is smaller than my hand yet the earth alone is big,
Out of nothing an explosion bam then the universe was born.

We don't need the Bible or God to prove that our universe had a beginning. A beginning that all scientist have agreed to currently. Science has proven time and time again - you can't get nothing from nothing; so our Atheist brothers have to explain to us how we got our universe.

The Big Bang didn't come out of nothing - something caused it to happen.

slyfox5555:


We don't need the Bible or God to prove that our universe had a beginning. A beginning that all scientist have agreed to currently. Science has proven time and time again - you can't get nothing from nothing; so our Atheist brothers have to explain to us how we got our universe.

The Big Bang didn't come out of nothing - something caused it to happen.

Lmao all scientist huh? According to them they are still seeing light from the big bang from some billions of light years away and that's as far as they can see...

Am asking now
When the explosion occurred, what was the speed of light?
Did the galaxy expand trillions of times faster than the speed of light for light from the initial big bang reaching the earth by now?

benalvino2:


Lmao all scientist huh? According to them they are still seeing light from the big bang from some billions of light years away and that's as far as they can see...

Am asking now
When the explosion occurred, what was the speed of light?
Did the galaxy expand trillions of times faster than the speed of light for light from the initial big bang reaching the earth by now?

I think you are missing my point - scientist account about the Big Bang and the Genesis account in Genesis 1:1 are very similar. So, even putting God in the equation - scientist admit that our universe does have a beginning

An example - Albert Einstein was a scientist who though our universe never had a beginning, he thought it existed eternally. It wasn't until Hubble showed Einstein that our universe is constantly expanding that Einstein realized that our universe did indeed had a beginning and never existed eternally.

I hope that clear up things for you.

slyfox5555:


I think you are missing my point - scientist account about the Big Bang and the Genesis account in Genesis 1:1 are very similar. So, even putting God in the equation - scientist admit that our universe does have a beginning

An example - Albert Einstein was a scientist who though our universe never had a beginning, he thought it existed eternally. It wasn't until Hubble showed Einstein that our universe is constantly expanding that Einstein realized that our universe did indeed had a beginning and never existed eternally.

I hope that clear up things for you.

But they say God didn't do it so how is it similar?

benalvino1:
Newton's second law

Objects at rest remain that way unless acted upon by a force. In this case: The atoms of the universe. Gases expand naturally, but with forces. There has to be a force that set the expansion for the big bang.

Thermodynamics

The first law of thermodynamics states that the energy of a closed system is constant. Thermodynamics laws apply to all closed systems. The second law states that entropy of a closed system always increases. This means that eventually, the universe will flatten out to an omega state, when the entropy reaches maximum. The universe will then either return to timelessness, or bounce back causing another big bang. What has an end must have a beginning.

The law of causality

Every effect must have a cause. The universe had a beginning, therefore there must be a cause to it.

Cell theory

All cells can only come from preexisting cells through division. A cell cannot come about by other processes like Abiogenesis (according to cell theory).
NOTE: Abiogenesis is NOT a theory. It's a set of hypotheses.

The law of conservation of energy

Energy cannot be created or destroyed, but is conserved and changes form. However, the energy in the universe must have come from somewhere according to the law of causality.

Let me indulge u a bit.
You debunked everything about the big-bang (I'm agnostic btw), but the biblical account of creation is faulty right from the word go. You believe God created everything?

Genesis 1.2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

This was how things were before God started creation. There was waters already: indicating the presence of hydrogen and oxygen. The spirit moved, indicating the concept of space, and invariably, time. Space is not "vacuum" but atmospheric space so there lies Nitrogen, Co2, Sulphur, oxygen (again) and other inert gases. Later on, God separated the water (which he didn't make) from the land (which he didn't make). Land comprises silicon, and other plant nutrients like potassium, phosphorus and others.

Now I can go on and on and on! How did all the elements come to be as they were there ab initio prior to creation? You pointed out lapses in the big bang theory as regards newtons law of motion and primary thermodynamic laws but your own story has the biggest flaw of all!

I'm sure if the writers of the bible were aware of the periodic table when they wrote the bible, they would have stated how God created all the elements that make it up.

Like I said earlier, I'm agnostic and don't even know jack about the big-bang: that doesn't mean I should believe the 6-day creation fable written by unlettered men!!!

A heart tht can beats unaided for upto a lifetime. Clearly an engineering super marvel.
Creation so complex,it takes teams of scientists working for decades or centuries of man years to crack, some basic truth.
Yet, somebody looks at all thes and says hmm, chance created all this!
Sick thinking,man.

asalimpo:
A heart tht can beats unaided for upto a lifetime. Clearly an engineering super marvel.
Creation so complex,it takes teams of scientists working for decades or centuries of man years to crack, some basic truth.
Yet, somebody looks at all thes and says hmm, chance created all this!
Sick thinking,man.

What is your suggestion?

simplex2:


Let me indulge u a bit.
You debunked everything about the big-bang (I'm agnostic btw), but the biblical account of creation is faulty right from the word go. You believe God created everything?

Genesis 1.2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

This was how things were before God started creation. There was waters already: indicating the presence of hydrogen and oxygen. The spirit moved, indicating the concept of space, and invariably, time. Space is not "vacuum" but atmospheric space so there lies Nitrogen, Co2, Sulphur, oxygen (again) and other inert gases. Later on, God separated the water (which he didn't make) from the land (which he didn't make). Land comprises silicon, and other plant nutrients like potassium, phosphorus and others.

Now I can go on and on and on! How did all the elements come to be as they were there ab initio prior to creation? You pointed out lapses in the big bang theory as regards newtons law of motion and primary thermodynamic laws but your own story has the biggest flaw of all!

I'm sure if the writers of the bible were aware of the periodic table when they wrote the bible, they would have stated how God created all the elements that make it up.

Like I said earlier, I'm agnostic and don't even know jack about the big-bang: that doesn't mean I should believe the 6-day creation fable written by unlettered men!!!

So you remove genesis 1:1 where it says heavens(cosmos/universe) and the earth.... so you lied when you said the earth was already there

Misogynist2014:
Even your father Darwin was an agnostic, he couldn't prove the nonexistence of God.

Of course he can't. Nonexistence cannot be proven. Let me give you an example. The entire universe is riding on the back of an invisible turtle. Can you prove the nonexistence of this turtle?

Why do people demand the impossible.

If God exist, why do you need faith to believe that. Something seems to be wrong somewhere, thank goodness some humans feel the need to use there brains rather than depending on what some primitive people said 2000yrs ago. Industrial and french revolution occured because some individuals decided to be practical and forward thinking. We are in the era of positivism and not regurgating what some ancient hebrew men said...

Femmymata2:
If God exist, why do you need faith to believe that. Something seems to be wrong somewhere, thank goodness some humans feel the need to use there brains rather than depending on what some primitive people said 2000yrs ago. Industrial and french revolution occured because some individuals decided to be practical and forward think. We are in the era of positivism and not regurgating what some ancient hebrew men said...

It is recorded in our bible when God show his signs... Jesus rose from the dead and etc. God exist

slyfox5555:
sufido123



Dude, Buddah is not a God. Buddahism doesn't claim Buddah is a god. If you mentioned Islam, or Judaism I will agree with you. Atheism is a belief system in the non-existence of God; you have to "believe" there is no God to be an Atheist.



Evidence? Really? Before we proceed I want to you to be objective, if you are - I will engage. Belief is based on so many things one of which is evidence. Typical example - I believe your parents gave birth to you. I don't believe you are a product of two he goats. Now, we can easily prove whether my belief is true or false. We can take the same approach to prove God.

You can't use the belief that my parents gave birth to me to compare your belief in God. First of all, the fact that my parents gave birth to me is a fact that can be verified in many ways. However, your belief in God cannot be verified Just like tooth fairy cannot be authenticated.

Secondly, there is no evidence of God but there is evidence that I exist because you and I are communicating right now. You cannot have a verifiable communication with God. Finally, you have no choice than to believe that my parents gave birth to me because if you believe that I am a product of two he goats, you would be laughed off by any reasonable person. You may even be considered insane.

Whether Budha is God or not is irrelevant to my argument. Choose any God you like, Zeus, Sango, Allah, Amadioha, balogun, Ogwugwu, Yahweh. The point is that many people believe in different gods and if you choose the wrong God, you would be considered an atheist.

You think that your God is the real God but you have no evidence that you are correct. Chances very from the probability that there are no gods to any or none of the gods people believe in today is the real God. If you happen to believe in Yahweh and it turns out that he is not the real God, then whichever God in existence would deem you an atheist.

I know thinking is hard so you would rather believe than think. However, understanding this hypothesis requires your thinking cap otherwise you would miss the point and compare your belief in God to he goat and my birth parents which is really absurd and insouciant.

There is no difference in getting God wrong and believing in something and getting God wrong and not believing in anything. This is essentially what the moral of my position is. You may choose to believe that I am a product of two he goats if it makes you feel better. However, such belief would be delusional because it is not true. Same with your belief in God

sufido123

Interesting article, I will jump in a respond

You can't use the belief that my parents gave birth to me to compare your belief in God. First of all, the fact that my parents gave birth to me is a fact that can be verified in many ways. However, your belief in God cannot be verified Just like tooth fairy cannot be authenticated.

I believe slyfox5555 was trying to compare how a belief can be true or false. Basically, how one can use logical, historical or even physiological evidence. So, let's use your parents as an example; what proof would you present that they are your parents?

Secondly, there is no evidence of God but there is evidence that I exist because you and I are communicating right now.

That is very lousy conclusion. How in the world can I verify you are the one I am responding to? Is there a possibility it could be your sister, brother, wife, uncle or a hacker that has taken over your account? Mere communication is no "evidence or proof". No one knows both us to confirm that we are the actual people that communicated on this day and time. Are there any eye witness account to verify this?

You cannot have a verifiable communication with God. Finally, you have no choice than to believe that my parents gave birth to me because if you believe that I am a product of two he goats, you would be laughed off by any reasonable person. You may even be considered insane

.

Again, slyfox5555 was trying to point out that something is either true or false. The issue here is the verification or proof of God. My question to you would be - are there things you believe in that can't be traced or verified or proved?

Whether Budha is God or not is irrelevant to my argument. Choose any God you like, Zeus, Sango, Allah, Amadioha, balogun, Ogwugwu, Yahweh. The point is that many people believe in different gods and if you choose the wrong God, you would be considered an atheist.

The problem with this idea is that 'gods' such as Zeus and Thor are not comparable with the biblical understanding of God. There is a vast distinction between all of the Ancient near eastern gods and the God of the Bible.

You think that your God is the real God but you have no evidence that you are correct. Chances very from the probability that there are no gods to any or none of the gods people believe in today is the real God. If you happen to believe in Yahweh and it turns out that he is not the real God, then whichever God in existence would deem you an atheist.

This kind of statement ignores that there are different kinds of 'proof/evidence'. "Can you prove that there is a God?". In the mathematical sense no, but proving anything is very difficult. The word proof has two meanings. There's the rigorous meaning in maths that is very difficult to do and rare. But then there's the other meaning – beyond reasonable doubt". That's the kind of 'proof' we can present: arguments to bring someone beyond reasonable doubt

I know thinking is hard so you would rather believe than think. However, understanding this hypothesis requires your thinking cap otherwise you would miss the point and compare your belief in God to he goat and my birth parents which is really absurd and insouciant.

Again, it was an example of belief and comfirming where something is true or not.

There is no difference in getting God wrong and believing in something and getting God wrong and not believing in anything. This is essentially what the moral of my position is.

Your position seems to be absolute! which if I am correct seems to be flawed. Except you are confirming that you know absolutely everything - then you are claiming that God doesn't exist

You may choose to believe that I am a product of two he goats if it makes you feel better. However, such belief would be delusional because it is not true. Same with your belief in God

You are missing the point by over a mile. The example was to show that we can prove within reasonal doubt that you are a product between two humans. However, I can use the theory of evolution draw conclusion that you are a product of two he-goats . Again, the point was to show that proof is subjective - what you are requiring of proof or evidence is not a standard to prove God.

Let me ask you a question - Can you prove the origin of the following. In otherwords - what is:

1. Energy?
2. Consciouness?

Remember, I am asking what these things are, where did they come from?

cloudstar:
sufido123

Interesting article, I will jump in a respond



I believe slyfox5555 was trying to compare how a belief can be true or false. Basically, how one can use logical, historical or even physiological evidence. So, let's use your parents as an example; what proof would you present that they are your parents?



That is very lousy conclusion. How in the world can I verify you are the one I am responding to? Is there a possibility it could be your sister, brother, wife, uncle or a hacker that has taken over your account? Mere communication is no "evidence or proof". No one knows both us to confirm that we are the actual people that communicated on this day and time. Are there any eye witness account to verify this?

.

Again, slyfox5555 was trying to point out that something is either true or false. The issue here is the verification or proof of God. My question to you would be - are there things you believe in that can't be traced or verified or proved?



The problem with this idea is that 'gods' such as Zeus and Thor are not comparable with the biblical understanding of God. There is a vast distinction between all of the Ancient near eastern gods and the God of the Bible.



This kind of statement ignores that there are different kinds of 'proof/evidence'. "Can you prove that there is a God?". In the mathematical sense no, but proving anything is very difficult. The word proof has two meanings. There's the rigorous meaning in maths that is very difficult to do and rare. But then there's the other meaning – beyond reasonable doubt". That's the kind of 'proof' we can present: arguments to bring someone beyond reasonable doubt



Again, it was an example of belief and comfirming where something is true or not.



Your position seems to be absolute! which if I am correct seems to be flawed. Except you are confirming that you know absolutely everything - then you are claiming that God doesn't exist



You are missing the point by over a mile. The example was to show that we can prove within reasonal doubt that you are a product between two humans. However, I can use the theory of evolution draw conclusion that you are a product of two he-goats . Again, the point was to show that proof is subjective - what you are requiring of proof or evidence is not a standard to prove God.

Let me ask you a question - Can you prove the origin of the following. In otherwords - what is:

1. Energy?
2. Consciouness?

Remember, I am asking what these things are, where did they come from?

hi bro. Happy Christmas and new year.

malvisguy212:
hi bro. Happy Christmas and new year.

Same to you my brother. I wish you the best of the new year

Redlyn:


Of course he can't. Nonexistence cannot be proven. Let me give you an example. The entire universe is riding on the back of an invisible turtle. Can you prove the nonexistence of this turtle?

Why do people demand the impossible.

The question is, what is your definition of proof? A reasonable doubt or a mathematical certainty?

Femmymata2:
If God exist, why do you need faith to believe that. Something seems to be wrong somewhere, thank goodness some humans feel the need to use there brains rather than depending on what some primitive people said 2000yrs ago. Industrial and french revolution occured because some individuals decided to be practical and forward think. We are in the era of positivism and not regurgating what some ancient hebrew men said...

You don't need faith to believe in God. You don't need faith to believe in the origin of our universe. However, you can deduce with empiral evidence that there is intelligent design in our universe i.e. something higher, more intelligent than us created our universe. Most people allude that meta-physical attribute to a God