Weah96:


I have to commend you for admitting that all you have is faith. At least you're an honest person. Probably even the first one to admit that on NL.

That's how all christian deal with God,thru faith, reason comes later.
Factual evidence comes later.
God's word is d agency of faith, but you unbelieving folks ,one day every man will hav no excuse , faith will b done away with but you moronic guyz, atheists so called, it will b toooooooo late for ya. You'll b screaming and begging to be given another chance to believe in God but you won't be given.

asalimpo:


That's how all christian deal with God,thru faith, reason comes later.
Factual evidence comes later.
God's word is d agency of faith, but you unbelieving folks ,one day every man will hav no excuse , faith will b done away with but you moronic guyz, atheists so called, it will b toooooooo late for ya. You'll b screaming and begging to be given another chance to believe in God but you won't be given.

I respectfully, disagree with you. All Christians don't deal with God through faith and Christianity is not based on faith alone. Read Luke 1: 1-4. The origin of the New Testament is historically proven. So, it is not based on faith alone

slyfox5555:
asala1



Get your facts straight, Christianity never put Galileo under house arrest, the Catholics did. Also, the Bible never claimed that the earth was the center of our universe. Please stop stretching the facts as you are mis-representing them



So the creation story of the universe as described in the Bible is irrelevant? Care of offer your version of how we got here?



You seem not to have read the Bible very well. Let me give you examples before you choose only one side. Israel has suffered more for idolatry than any nation in the world. God has dealt with them more than their enemies. God chose to use them to reveal the true God to the world but this privilege carried a great responsibility. So, let us read the accounts:

1. The 1st war the Israelite s fought was a direct assault from the Amalekites. There was a shorter way from Egypt to Canaan, but the Amalekites were there. So God took them through a hazardous wilderness to avoid any confrontation. But while they were resting at Rephidim, the Amalekites suddenly attacked - unprovoked, determined to destroy Israel. Read Exodus 17:8-18
2. Read Moses plea to the King of Edom to pass through his borders and the King refused- Numbers 20:14-20. This account seems to contradict what you said above.
3. Here is another one - Numbers 21:21-24. Israel asked Sihon king of the Amorites for safe passage but he refused and fought Israel.

From the above, I wonder how it tallies with your account. From history; it's either the historical records as described are wrong and you are right or it's right and you are wrong - which is it?

1. Catholics are Muslims I guess.

2. I actually don't how we got here but I will rather believe my ancestors were created by Olodumare in Ife because I'm Yoruba than to believe that my ancestors were some Hebrew family created in some imaginary perfect garden in the middle east.

3. From the Bible, are the Israelites not the chosen people? How many different empires were ruined according to the bible because Yahweh is taking his people to the promise land- Jericho and Canaan came to my mind.

4. Will you as a president of a country allow people from another country encroach your territory? There are rules, every empire has their right to defend their territory. For example, will it be right for the US start destroying Nigeria if they refuse them entry into Niger republic through their country?

Please remove yourself from this mental slavery.

Empirical evidence? Through observation and experience i'm at a point that i feel there couldn't be an intelligent creator that allows so much natural disaster(tsunamis,earthquake,flooding e.t.c) and human disasters(killings,raping,mutilation,deformity from birth e.t.c) I'm sure you don't see how these should negate the belief in God's existence. Some of us (athiest,agnostic) feels if an intelligent creator exist and seems to be unconcerned about happenings on earth then IT IS AS GOOD AS IT IS NON EXISTING. Of what good is a father that abandons his children leaving then a bøok while staying in hiding for no sensible reason. Kids are raped,mutilated,bombed,slaughtered,abused,tortured by some religious fanatic God does nothing. Plane crashing,ISIS,BOKO HARAM,ALQUEDA massacre daily where is God. People dying of horrible diseases,poverty,war e.t.c where is God? Of what use is God? What does he/she do to make the world a better place. Oops, i forgot he is waiting for judgement day

asala1

1. Catholics are Muslims I guess.

My point was Catholics have traditions and practices that are not Biblical i.e. Confession to priest, purgatory. If you show me where it says the earth is the center of the universe in the Bible, then you have a case. So, far - you are mis-representing the Bible.

2. I actually don't how we got here but I will rather believe my ancestors were created by Olodumare in Ife because I'm Yoruba than to believe that my ancestors were some Hebrew family created in some imaginary perfect garden in the middle east.

Another ignorant statement - where in the Bible did it claim that Adam and Eve where Hebrews?

3. From the Bible, are the Israelites not the chosen people? How many different empires were ruined according to the bible because Yahweh is taking his people to the promise land- Jericho and Canaan came to my mind.

Your claim was that from their Exodus; they murdered innocent people. Upon closer look at the details and texts, it stated otherwise. I am not denying that their were wars in the Bible.

4. Will you as a president of a country allow people from another country encroach your territory? There are rules, every empire has their right to defend their territory. For example, will it be right for the US start destroying Nigeria if they refuse them entry into Niger republic through their country?

Stop playing pretend - the text was clear. If I was a president and someone asked for safe passage - I WILL NOT ATTACK THEM. Man up and admit if you mis-represented the text instead of playing smart.

Please remove yourself from this mental slavery

Try and get some education, most especially on Biblical narratives - you are free to believe in whatever you like, we all are.

Humans out of curiosity have written holy books(bible,quran,e.t.c) created many Gods allah,jehouah,zeus,sango e.t.c. These God have alot of similarities, they can't talk,act, be visible and all you see and hear is there worshippers telling us how great,good,just,caring there God is. There God except in their various books is completely impotent and unreachable when it comes to reality

Femmymata2:
Humans out of curiosity have written holy books(bible,quran,e.t.c) created many Gods allah,jehouah,zeus,sango e.t.c. These God have alot of similarities, they can't talk,act, be visible and all you see and hear is there worshippers telling us how great,good,just,caring there God is. There God except in their various books is completely impotent and unreachable when it comes to reality

So, basically God is an idea that people believe in but can't prove or can't explain what He or it is?

cloudstar:


So, basically God is an idea that people believe in but can't prove or can't explain what He or it is?

i agree with that... Aptly put

cloudstar:
sufido123

Interesting article, I will jump in a respond



I believe slyfox5555 was trying to compare how a belief can be true or false. Basically, how one can use logical, historical or even physiological evidence. So, let's use your parents as an example; what proof would you present that they are your parents?



That is very lousy conclusion. How in the world can I verify you are the one I am responding to? Is there a possibility it could be your sister, brother, wife, uncle or a hacker that has taken over your account? Mere communication is no "evidence or proof". No one knows both us to confirm that we are the actual people that communicated on this day and time. Are there any eye witness account to verify this?



Again, slyfox5555 was trying to point out that something is either true or false. The issue here is the verification or proof of God. My question to you would be - are there things you believe in that can't be traced or verified or proved?



The problem with this idea is that 'gods' such as Zeus and Thor are not comparable with the biblical understanding of God. There is a vast distinction between all of the Ancient near eastern gods and the God of the Bible.



This kind of statement ignores that there are different kinds of 'proof/evidence'. "Can you prove that there is a God?". In the mathematical sense no, but proving anything is very difficult. The word proof has two meanings. There's the rigorous meaning in maths that is very difficult to do and rare. But then there's the other meaning – beyond reasonable doubt". That's the kind of 'proof' we can present: arguments to bring someone beyond reasonable doubt



Again, it was an example of belief and comfirming where something is true or not.



Your position seems to be absolute! which if I am correct seems to be flawed. Except you are confirming that you know absolutely everything - then you are claiming that God doesn't exist



You are missing the point by over a mile. The example was to show that we can prove within reasonal doubt that you are a product between two humans. However, I can use the theory of evolution draw conclusion that you are a product of two he-goats . Again, the point was to show that proof is subjective - what you are requiring of proof or evidence is not a standard to prove God.

Let me ask you a question - Can you prove the origin of the following. In otherwords - what is:

1. Energy?
2. Consciouness?

Remember, I am asking what these things are, where did they come from?

To determine my parentage: There is DNA testing


How do you know this is me? You are being fastidious, it does not matter whether is me or my sister or anyone because in this forum we are all anonymous. The bottom line is that you know you are communicating with a human being. Therefore your position is not tenable.

You can't answer a question by posing another question. I am a humanist and you asked me if there is anything that I believe in that cannot be verified. The simple answer is no. I am not superstitious and I believe in things that are verifiable including when you tell me about your God, you have to prove that he/it exists.

That leads me to a response to your assertion that when I said that there is no evidence of God, it means I claimed to know it all. I do not claim to know it all, my claim is that there is no evidence of God and you have not been able to discredit this assertion. I don't even know enough to say there is no God, my position is there is no evidence of his existence and this is a truism.

I would not be debating the physics, biology and chemistry of the world, it will do you and I no good. I do not care what you think about evolution, consciousness or energy. It is a search I am not interested in. Similarly, my interest here only relates to the evidence of God's existence. If you have any verifiable evidence of God, I would be willing to share it with you but please do not tell me the bible is your evidence because it is not.

For your assertion that other gods but Yahweh are false, you are again engaging in a conclusion you have no fact to support. You simply do not know which God is real if at all there is God. If you understand why you dismissed Zeus as God then you would understand why others dismiss Yahweh and his son. Of course you do not understand why you dismiss other gods, you have simply been brainwashed to do so

You were born an atheist and the rest of the dogma you acquired after birth were by accident of birth. I know it is difficult for you to admit that you cannot provide me with any evidence of the existence of God. The rest of your assertions though interesting are nothing but wild goose chases.

If your qwest is to discredit evolution to validate God, I say good luck in that but count me out. To me there is a possibility that both evolution and God dogma are both wrong. However, evolution makes more sense than the God delusion.

cloudstar:
asala1



My point was Catholics have traditions and practices that are not Biblical i.e. Confession to priest, purgatory. If you show me where it says the earth is the center of the universe in the Bible, then you have a case. So, far - you are mis-representing the Bible.



Another ignorant statement - where in the Bible did it claim that Adam and Eve where Hebrews?





Your claim was that from their Exodus; they murdered innocent people. Upon closer look at the details and texts, it stated otherwise. I am not denying that their were wars in the Bible.



Stop playing pretend - the text was clear. If I was a president and someone asked for safe passage - I WILL NOT ATTACK THEM. Man up and admit if you mis-represented the text instead of playing smart.



Try and get some education, most especially on Biblical narratives - you are free to believe in whatever you like, we all are.

This is the Hebrew word for "man". It could be ultimately derived from Hebrew אדם ('adam) meaning "to be red", referring to the ruddy colour of human skin

Adam (Hebrew: אָדָם‎) is a figure from the Book of Genesis, also mentioned in the New Testament, the Quran, the Book of Mormon, and the Book of Iqan. According to Womack's creation myth[1] of Abrahamic religions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam

The name Eve is a Hebrew baby name. In Hebrew the meaning of the name Eve is: Life, living, lively. Famous bearer: the Old Testament mother of the human race who tasted the forbidden fruit, precipitating the Fall of Man.

Eve (Hebrew: חַוָּה‎, Classical Hebrew: Ḥawwāh, Modern Israeli Hebrew: Khavah, Arabic: حواء‎, Syriac: ܚܘܐ, Tigrinya: ሕይዋን? or Hiywan) is a figure in the Book of Genesis in the Hebrew Bible. In Islamic tradition, Eve is known as Adam's wife although she is not specifically named in the Qur'an.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eve

So in the Bible,Yahweh didn't help the Israelites murder innocent people and destroy so many empires for just no cause? Who are their enemies? Are these other empires not the so called 'Yahweh creations'. If Yahweh created everyone as the bible claim, why will he allow some 'chosen generation' to destroy others because they don't allow them save passage? This is ridiculous. This is the God the Bible says created the whole world doing this:-

*Sihon refused Israel passage, went out to fight and was defeated (Numbers 21:21-26). All his cities were destroyed. [b]Men, women and children were slain[/b] (Deuteronomy 2:26-36). Israel took possession of his land.

*The Amorites in Jazer were dispossessed (Numbers 21:32). No other details were recorded.

*Og of Bashan fought Israel (Numbers 21:33-35). Sixty cities along with many walled and unwalled villages were destroyed. Men, women and children were all slain (Deuteronomy 3:1-11).

*Midian was destroyed for tempting Israel into idolatry (Numbers 31:3-19). All Midianite cities and encampments were burned. Only female virgins were allowed to live.

Do you know what sane people call these killings? GENOCIDE. Yes, Yahweh aided Genocide on the people he created.

BTW, I haven't finish reading the history of my ancestors not to talk of reading the folklore of some ancient Hebrew people.

Only you can remove yourself from this mental slavery.

Anyone trying to make this world a better place for us all to live is a God to me. I despise anything that divides humans be it God,race,ethnicity,political belief e.t.c because it denies us humans the great things that we can accomplish if we are united.

Femmymata2:
Humans out of curiosity have written holy books(bible,quran,e.t.c) created many Gods allah,jehouah,zeus,sango e.t.c. These God have alot of similarities, they can't talk,act, be visible and all you see and hear is there worshippers telling us how great,good,just,caring there God is. There God except in their various books is completely impotent and unreachable when it comes to reality

You are right on the money!

@asala1, thanks for your insightful comments. It disgust me when i read the part of the bible where God orders israelites to kill without mercy some other group of people which includes infants,children and women. I ask myself did God not create this little children himself? Is that all he can do to salvage the situation? Amöngst all the land in whole world God cannot find anyone suitable for his chosen people without massive bloodshed. I learnt God repents,grieve at times but does it have any morals at all. But why should i blame the authors of the bible for writing on the historical happenings that positiöns them as a superior race to the others. If yorubas are to write about themselves won't they do thesame!

cloudstar:
asala1



My point was Catholics have traditions and practices that are not Biblical i.e. Confession to priest, purgatory. If you show me where it says the earth is the center of the universe in the Bible, then you have a case. So, far - you are mis-representing the Bible.



Another ignorant statement - where in the Bible did it claim that Adam and Eve where Hebrews?



Your claim was that from their Exodus; they murdered innocent people. Upon closer look at the details and texts, it stated otherwise. I am not denying that their were wars in the Bible.



Stop playing pretend - the text was clear. If I was a president and someone asked for safe passage - I WILL NOT ATTACK THEM. Man up and admit if you mis-represented the text instead of playing smart.



Try and get some education, most especially on Biblical narratives - you are free to believe in whatever you like, we all are.

1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”

Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”

Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”

Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”

Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”

We all know the earth is moving. Don't believe some semi-educated ancient men. Oh sorry, Yahweh forgot that the earth actually moves when he
inspired them or I guess he was high on some heavenly leaves.

asala1

This is the Hebrew word for "man". It could be ultimately derived from Hebrew אדם ('adam) meaning "to be red", referring to the ruddy colour of human skin

Adam (Hebrew: אָדָם‎) is a figure from the Book of Genesis, also mentioned in the New Testament, the Quran, the Book of Mormon, and the Book of Iqan. According to Womack's creation myth[1] of Abrahamic religions.

The name Eve is a Hebrew baby name. In Hebrew the meaning of the name Eve is: Life, living, lively. Famous bearer: the Old Testament mother of the human race who tasted the forbidden fruit, precipitating the Fall of Man.

Eve (Hebrew: חַוָּה‎, Classical Hebrew: Ḥawwāh, Modern Israeli Hebrew: Khavah, Arabic: حواء‎, Syriac: ܚܘܐ, Tigrinya: ሕይዋን? or Hiywan) is a figure in the Book of Genesis in the Hebrew Bible. In Islamic tradition, Eve is known as Adam's wife although she is not specifically named in the Qur'an.

Bros, there is no where in the Bible that Adam or Eve are referred to as Hebrews; you seem to be making claims that the Bible didn't make.

So in the Bible,Yahweh didn't help the Israelites murder innocent people and destroy so many empires for just no cause? Who are their enemies? Are these other empires not the so called 'Yahweh creations'. If Yahweh created everyone as the bible claim, why will he allow some 'chosen generation' to destroy others because they don't allow them save passage? This is ridiculous.

Let's be more specific. Please provide the specifics you are referring to and then we can look at the context. It's one thing to sound rhetorically effective but it's another thing to look at the texts you are referring to to find out what it means. So, please provide specifics. Earlier, you said the same thing about the Exodus; you were proven wrong and here you are making general statements. Again, I am not saying that there were no wars and killings in the Bible - not at all. I am saying you can't cry foul until you have read what happened. In your case, you have cried foul so many times

BTW, I haven't finish reading the history of my ancestors not to talk of reading the folklore of some ancient Hebrew people.

Suit yourself

Only you can remove yourself from this mental slavery

The slavery you are referring to exist in your realm my friend - not mine

cloudstar:
asala1



Bros, there is no where in the Bible that Adam or Eve are referred to as Hebrews; you seem to be making claims that the Bible didn't make.



Let's be more specific. Please provide the specifics you are referring to and then we can look at the context. It's one thing to sound rhetorically effective but it's another thing to look at the texts you are referring to to find out what it means. So, please provide specifics. Earlier, you said the same thing about the Exodus; you were proven wrong and here you are making general statements. Again, I am not saying that there were no wars and killings in the Bible - not at all. I am saying you can't cry foul until you have read what happened. In your case, you have cried foul so many times



Suit yourself



The slavery you are referring to exist in your realm my friend - not mine

*Sihon refused Israel passage, went out to fight and was defeated (Numbers 21:21-26). All his cities were destroyed. Men, women and children were slain (Deuteronomy 2:26-36). Israel took possession of his land.

*The Amorites in Jazer were dispossessed (Numbers 21:32). No other details were recorded.

*Og of Bashan fought Israel (Numbers 21:33-35). Sixty cities along with many walled and unwalled villages were destroyed. Men, women and children were all slain (Deuteronomy 3:1-11).

*Midian was destroyed for tempting Israel into idolatry (Numbers 31:3-19). All Midianite cities and encampments were burned. Only female virgins were allowed to live.

Do you know what sane people call these killings? GENOCIDE my friend. Yes, Yahweh aided Genocide on the people he created.


Adam and Eve are Hebrew names, just like Obasanjo is a yoruba name

Only you can remove yourself from this mental slavery.

asala1

1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”

Cha - why do you step so low to validate stupi.dity. This is a verse that is a psalm i.e. a poem. David was given a metaphoric expression about God's power. Did you read verses 31 and 32? Can the earth rejoice? Can the sea roar like a lion? These are simple metaphoric examples and that is very common in the Bible.

Jesus said in the gospels - I am the Door. Does that mean He is a physical door that is in your house? You are directly mis-representing the authors and the passages you have quoted. It shows little to nothing on your grasp on what you quoted. It's really pathetic though

It shows how little you know about the subject you are debating

Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”

Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”

Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”

Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”

Bros, I wouldn't do myself justice if I responded to you - please go back to school and read up on your basic literature. While at it, sit down and read the Bible, actually read it to get some insight. When you do that, you will see how shallow and pointless your claims are.

We all know the earth is moving. Don't believe some semi-educated ancient men. Oh sorry, Yahweh forgot that the earth actually moves when he inspired them or I guess he was high on some heavenly leaves.

From your argument so far; I can see who is high on some "leaves"

Femmymata2:
@asala1, thanks for your insightful comments. It disgust me when i read the part of the bible where God orders israelites to kill without mercy some other group of people which includes infants,children and women. I ask myself did God not create this little children himself? Is that all he can do to salvage the situation? Amöngst all the land in whole world God cannot find anyone suitable for his chosen people without massive bloodshed. I learnt God repents,grieve at times but does it have any morals at all. But why should i blame the authors of the bible for writing on the historical happenings that positiöns them as a superior race to the others. If yorubas are to write about themselves won't they do thesame!

Thanks. I think Yahweh just love the sight of blood. Can't someone who created the whole world make a land flowing with milk and honey from a barren land and settle the Israelites there to save the brutal killing?

cloudstar:
asala1



Cha - why do you step so low to validate stupi.dity. This is a verse that is a psalm i.e. a poem. David was given a metaphoric expression about God's power. Did you read verses 31 and 32? Can the earth rejoice? Can the sea roar like a lion? These are simple metaphoric examples and that is very common in the Bible.

Jesus said in the gospels - I am the Door. Does that mean He is a physical door that is in your house? You are directly mis-representing the authors and the passages you have quoted. It shows little to nothing on your grasp on what you quoted. It's really pathetic though

It shows how little you know about the subject you are debating ;



Bros, I wouldn't do myself justice if I responded to you - please go back to school and read up on your basic literature. While at it, sit down and read the Bible, actually read it to get some insight. When you do that, you will see how shallow and pointless your claims are.



From your argument so far; I can see who is high on some "leaves"

This is also a peom abi?

[Then spake Joshua to JEHOVAH in the day when JEHOVAH delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.
And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
And there was no day like that before it or after it, that JEHOVAH hearkened unto the voice of a man: for JEHOVAH fought for Israel. (Joshua 10:12-14)

sufido123

To determine my parentage: There is DNA testing

So, what happens if both your parents were dead - what then?

How do you know this is me? You are being fastidious, it does not matter whether is me or my sister or anyone because in this forum we are all anonymous. The bottom line is that you know you are communicating with a human being. Therefore your position is not tenable.

I am communicating with someone, that is true - there is no standard to suggest or that you are who you are. You could be on one of the Russian space station for all we know. My point is simple - writing on an online forum that over 6.5 billion people have access to doesn't prove who you are. We need more evidence i.e. legal evidence

You can't answer a question by posing another question. I am a humanist and you asked me if there is anything that I believe in that cannot be verified. The simple answer is no. I am not superstitious and I believe in things that are verifiable including when you tell me about your God, you have to prove that he/it exists.

Remember I asked you - What is the origin of energy, what is energy? Can you show me energy? I am sure you believe in energy and you know it exist - we all do. However, can you show me energy or tell me what energy is? Can you look at it under a microscope?

That leads me to a response to your assertion that when I said that there is no evidence of God, it means I claimed to know it all. I do not claim to know it all, my claim is that there is no evidence of God and you have not been able to discredit this assertion. I don't even know enough to say there is no God, my position is there is no evidence of his existence and this is a truism.

To that I said - what is the standard to prove or show evidence that He exists? I admitted that I can't mathematically prove God neither can I mathematically prove you ate dinner 5 years ago. So, if you are looking for a mathematical proof - then no - I can't prove God mathematically. However, proof can be showing something beyond reasonable doubt and in such a case - God can be proven.

I would not be debating the physics, biology and chemistry of the world, it will do you and I no good. I do not care what you think about evolution, consciousness or energy. It is a search I am not interested in. Similarly, my interest here only relates to the evidence of God's existence. If you have any verifiable evidence of God, I would be willing to share it with you but please do not tell me the bible is your evidence because it is not.

Dude, I will not even go to the Bible. I want to use a standard that we both agree to; actually that scientist agree to. That is why I asked you what energy was because it's such a common thing but you ignored the question. So again, what evidence do you want?

For your assertion that other gods but Yahweh are false, you are again engaging in a conclusion you have no fact to support. You simply do not know which God is real if at all there is God. If you understand why you dismissed Zeus as God then you would understand why others dismiss Yahweh and his son. Of course you do not understand why you dismiss other gods, you have simply been brainwashed to do so

I am not dismissing Zeus, I am saying the categorization on the Christian God and Zeus (as an example) is flawed because they are totally different in their character, their laws, how they relate, their history. So, they are not the same and it's a big error to claim that you can categorize them as the same. Zeus was created and is a product of two other gods so are nearly all other gods. The Christian God is the 1st un-caused cause; wasn't created and created all things. Again, do the research before you make such claims.

There are people today that claim they are gods - we have a place for them - the mental hospital

You were born an atheist and the rest of the dogma you acquired after birth were by accident of birth. I know it is difficult for you to admit that you cannot provide me with any evidence of the existence of God. The rest of your assertions though interesting are nothing but wild goose chases.

You seem not to play by the rules you are setting. I have asked you for the standard of evidence so many times but you keep ignoring me.

If your qwest is to discredit evolution to validate God, I say good luck in that but count me out. To me there is a possibility that both evolution and God dogma are both wrong. However, evolution makes more sense than the God delusion.

I am not discrediting anything - you seem to be running in circles pointing fingers but can't get specific with me

asala1

[Then spake Joshua to JEHOVAH in the day when JEHOVAH delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.
And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
And there was no day like that before it or after it, that JEHOVAH hearkened unto the voice of a man: for JEHOVAH fought for Israel. (Joshua 10:12-14)

Cha - so we have left the Bible "claiming the earth is the center of the universe" and now we are on the sun? . Dude - I take God beg you, please stop making yourself look stup.id online. You gave examples that were easily rebuffed and debunked. You have left that and you are here talking about a whole new topic.

What has the sun in this passage got to do with the earth is the center of the universe?

cloudstar:


I respectfully, disagree with you. All Christians don't deal with God through faith and Christianity is not based on faith alone. Read Luke 1: 1-4. The origin of the New Testament is historically proven. So, it is not based on faith alone

theyre some rare instances where some ppl had spiritual encounters tht made believe that God is real. But eventually all christians hav to conduct their lives and beliefs on nothing other than with no other than a "God said ... ".
This is the m.o in the kingdom of God. This is how faith operates.

cloudstar:
sufido123



So, what happens if both your parents were dead - what then?



I am communicating with someone, that is true - there is no standard to suggest or that you are who you are. You could be on one of the Russian space station for all we know. My point is simple - writing on an online forum that over 6.5 billion people have access to doesn't prove who you are. We need more evidence i.e. legal evidence



Remember I asked you - What is the origin of energy, what is energy? Can you show me energy? I am sure you believe in energy and you know it exist - we all do. However, can you show me energy or tell me what energy is? Can you look at it under a microscope?



To that I said - what is the standard to prove or show evidence that He exists? I admitted that I can't mathematically prove God neither can I mathematically prove you ate dinner 5 years ago. So, if you are looking for a mathematical proof - then no - I can't prove God mathematically. However, proof can be showing something beyond reasonable doubt and in such a case - God can be proven.



Dude, I will not even go to the Bible. I want to use a standard that we both agree to; actually that scientist agree to. That is why I asked you what energy was because it's such a common thing but you ignored the question. So again, what evidence do you want?



I am not dismissing Zeus, I am saying the categorization on the Christian God and Zeus (as an example) is flawed because they are totally different in their character, their laws, how they relate, their history. So, they are not the same and it's a big error to claim that you can categorize them as the same. Zeus was created and is a product of two other gods so are nearly all other gods. The Christian God is the 1st un-caused cause; wasn't created and created all things. Again, do the research before you make such claims.

There are people today that claim they are gods - we have a place for them - the mental hospital



You seem not to play by the rules you are setting. I have asked you for the standard of evidence so many times but you keep ignoring me.



I am not discrediting anything - you seem to be running in circles pointing fingers but can't get specific with me

You seem to be the one changing the rules. I asked you for evidence of god's existence but you claimed that you can't mathematically prove the existence of God. I never asked you for the mathematics of god delusion, all I asked is any tangible evidence. You want it to be mathematics of God. I specifically excluded anything outside evidence of God like biology, chemistry, physics, evolution. Let me also add the exclusion of math or any studies beside tangible evidence. Provide me with any evidence of God or just find something else to do.

For the rest of your arguments, you are pulling straws and going in vicious circles. Any attempt to change your cause of action seems to hit a brick wall. I doff my hat to you though for not being insultive like most christians who have no valid arguments.

I am no longer interested in your hypotheticals. If it makes you feel better to say I am in Russian space station or that I am not who I am, then do it. You may also conclude that if my parents are dead, my parentage can't be verified. It won't change anything for me. The what ifs are just attempts in futility.

The fact remains that you have not been able to present a scintilla of evidence of God. I do know that you have a track record of believing in amorphous things. If you believe in Yahweh and his son, you would definitely believe anything. Therefore, I won't be surprised by any of your spurious beliefs.

How specific do you want be to be? I asked for any evidence of God. Do you have it? Yes or no?

sufido123:


You seem to be the one changing the rules. I asked you for evidence of god's existence but you claimed that you can't mathematically prove the existence of God. I never asked you for the mathematics of god delusion, all I asked is any tangible evidence. You want it to be mathematics of God. I specifically excluded anything outside evidence of God like biology, chemistry, physics, evolution. Let me also add the exclusion of math or any studies beside tangible evidence. Provide me with any evidence of God or just find something else to do.

For the rest of your arguments, you are pulling straws and going in vicious circles. Any attempt to change your cause of action seems to hit a brick wall. I doff my hat to you though for not being insultive like most christians who have no valid arguments.

I am no longer interested in your hypotheticals. If it makes you feel better to say I am in Russian space station or that I am not who I am, then do it. You may also conclude that if my parents are dead, my parentage can't be verified. It won't change anything for me. The what ifs are just attempts in futility. The fact remains that you have not been able to present a scintilla of evidence of God.

How specific do you want be to be? I asked for any evidence of God. Do you have it? Yes or no?

God is not a physcal being.
Your assumption is flawed and trite. It assumes first,tht anything that is real is physcal? (an unproven/provable assumption). Next,it uses this false base as a yard stick.
Let me ask yo a question,
if life is all physical and without God existing,
then, why hav all ancient societies had a belief in God?

Why do men of all strata and division of the world have znd inclination to worship a higher being? Who made them so

cloudstar:


The question is, what is your definition of proof? A reasonable doubt or a mathematical certainty?

By proof I mean Evidence of some sort which stands up to scrutiny. Not speculation.

asalimpo:

God is not a physcal being.
Your assumption is flawed and trite. It assumes first,tht anything that is real is physcal? (an unproven/provable assumption). Next,it uses this false base as a yard stick.
Let me ask yo a question,
if life is all physical and without God existing,
then, why hav all ancient societies had a belief in God?

Why do men of all strata and division of the world have znd inclination to worship a higher being? Who made them so

Ancient people were wrong in many things including religion, slavery, world is flat, human sacrifice etc. That majority could be ignorant have been proven time and time again. There was a time majority believed that sicknesses were caused by the devil or evil spirits..Africans still believe this but the rest of the world have moved beyond this. I am not assuming anything, all I need is evidence of God! It is not trite to ask for it.

Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence. Why are you so confident that God exists when you have conceded that God can't be proven because he is not physical? How do you then know that he exists besides following the ancient belief?

Even in your Christian doctrine, you have abandoned many teachings because they are absurd viz: being stoned for working on sabbath, for adultery, for not being a virgin on wedding night if you are a woman, wearing clothing made of two different linens, selling your daughter into slavery, drinking poison and playing with snakes to show your faith. Not having sex was required of you. Christ required that you become a eunuch. I can go on and on.

b

Redlyn:


By proof I mean Evidence of some sort which stands up to scrutiny. Not speculation.

Proof has two meanings:

1. There's the rigorous meaning in maths that is very difficult to do and rare
2. Then there's the other meaning – beyond reasonable doubt

So, I can't mathematically or scientifically prove that God exist. However, I can provide evidence beyond reasonable doubt that He does. If you are interested, we can get started

asalimpo:

theyre some rare instances where some ppl had spiritual encounters tht made believe that God is real. But eventually all christians hav to conduct their lives and beliefs on nothing other than with no other than a "God said ... ".
This is the m.o in the kingdom of God. This is how faith operates.

What I mean is this:

1. Believing in the historical Jesus doesn't require faith. That is because the actual events happened. We can verify those events even if the Bible didn't exist
2. Historical evidence showed that Jesus was crucified - so we don't need faith to believe that.

If you say we need faith to please God and to live as Christians then I agree but you do not need faith to believe in God

cloudstar:


Proof has two meanings:

1. There's the rigorous meaning in maths that is very difficult to do and rare
2. Then there's the other meaning – beyond reasonable doubt

So, I can't mathematically or scientifically prove that God exist. However, I can provide evidence beyond reasonable doubt that He does. If you are interested, we can get started

How many times have you been asked to provide this evidence? Do so without much ado!

sufido123

You seem to be the one changing the rules. I asked you for evidence of god's existence but you claimed that you can't mathematically prove the existence of God. I never asked you for the mathematics of god delusion, all I asked is any tangible evidence.

I keep asking you, what kind of evidence do you want? We can't inspect God in a lab neither can we call Him up for a meeting to prove He exist. So, I keep asking you; what kind of evidence do you want but you keep looping around.

You want it to be mathematics of God. I specifically excluded anything outside evidence of God like biology, chemistry, physics, evolution. Let me also add the exclusion of math or any studies beside tangible evidence. Provide me with any evidence of God or just find something else to do.

You still seem not to understand the premise. I am stating that I can't mathematically or scientifically prove God so if the evidence or proof you are requesting is a mathematical or scientific one then no - I can't provide such evidence. However, I can logically provide strong evidence that a Creator/God exist. That has been and is my point

For the rest of your arguments, you are pulling straws and going in vicious circles. Any attempt to change your cause of action seems to hit a brick wall. I doff my hat to you though for not being insultive like most christians who have no valid arguments.

You seem to shy away from constructive conversation. Why, I have no clue.

I am no longer interested in your hypotheticals. If it makes you feel better to say I am in Russian space station or that I am not who I am, then do it. You may also conclude that if my parents are dead, my parentage can't be verified. It won't change anything for me. The what ifs are just attempts in futility.

Another attempt in the wrong direction. We are talking about proof, you opinion is irrelevant. Proof that you are child of your parents would be your birth certificate. If you were not born in a hospital; proof that you are related to your parents would be eye witness account. Those are called legal and historical proof. That is what I am trying to get you to see. Proof that you are who you say you are would be your drivers license confirmed by some authority; a video chat, confirmation of your location. Those are all trails that we can confirm. So, you playing smart and avoiding the question shows how little you understand what I was getting at.

I gave you the example of providing proof/evidence that you ate dinner 5 years ago? You can't scientifically prove this - it has to be a legal or eye witness proof to confirm if you ate dinner or not. So, while there are so many categories of evidences and proofs; we can use one or a combination of more than one to provide evidence.

The fact remains that you have not been able to present a scintilla of evidence of God. I do know that you have a track record of believing in amorphous things. If you believe in Yahweh and his son, you would definitely believe anything. Therefore, I won't be surprised by any of your spurious beliefs. How specific do you want be to be? I asked for any evidence of God. Do you have it? Yes or no?

Bros - what is your standard of evidence oh? How many times do I have to ask? I can provide theological and philosophical arguments. I can provide logical arguments to prove beyond reasonable doubt that God exist. The question is - will those proofs be acceptable to you - if they won't then there is no need for me to waste my time. If you will ignore the arguments and evidence as irrelevant then there is no need to bother. Hence the reason I have stated several times, I can't prove God mathematically or scientifically if those are your standard of evidence.

We can debate the existence of God until the cows come home. It can be very interesting, especially when one goes into the detail and explore the subject in depth but for an atheist, they might be missing the point or avoiding the real issue.

sufido123:


How many times have you been asked to provide this evidence? Do so without much ado!

I guess you are reading with your eyes close. WHAT KIND OF PROOF DO YOU WANT OOOO. Do you want a scientific proof, logical proof, theological one? What type of proof do you want?