xwolverine:


Are you a psychic to know what nationalities the technicians are? the fact that they work in SA doesn't make them southafricans. Sometimes its near impossible to understand your basis for assumptions.

Yes, they are bonafide South Africans

mzilakazi:


South Africans of course. bwahahaha!!!

This discussion is degenerating into a huge joke which negates the importance of educating you on the specifics of the Hind project. As a matter of principle, don't make assumptions without facts to back it up, it doesn't augur well with the level of intelligence expected of an adult on a public fora like Nairaland. Making conjectures and stating half-truths thereby turning an intelligent discuss into joystick measurement competition brings this thread into disrepute. I will only reply to your comments when you start backing up your assumptions with facts.

Now I understand why Oga Henry120 doesn't like educating you guys, its tiring and you sometimes wonder if you are speaking with an adult.
Oga Henry120 I doff my hat bruv, its not an easy task.

xwolverine:


This discussion is degenerating into a huge joke which negates the importance of educating you on the specifics of the Hind project. As a matter of principle, don't make assumptions without facts to back it up, it doesn't augur well with the level of intelligence expected of an adult on a public fora like Nairaland. Making conjectures and stating half-truths thereby turning an intelligent discuss into joystick measurement competition brings this thread into disrepute. I will only reply to your comments when you start backing up your assumptions with facts.

Now I understand why Oga Henry120 doesn't like educating you guys, its tiring and you sometimes wonder if you are speaking with an adult.
Oga Henry120 I doff my hat bruv, its not an easy task.

Tell me does it hurt you when South Africans have made upgrade on your MI-35s? We have done it to many nations before you.

mzilakazi:


Tell me does it hurt you when South Africans have made upgrade on your MI-35s? We have done it to many nations before you.

Hurt? you don't get it do you?
Unlike you, I am not emotional about this, because at the end of the day, my Hinds are the one being upgraded, while you are stuck with 11 Rooivalks. The money paid doesn't go to SANDF, but to the private pockets of Ivor Ichikowitz, at the end of the day the helos are still mine. Like I said earlier, you should focus on raising funds for the broke SANDF and the SAAF with toddler pilots. And while at it, hold your generals responsible for throwing $700 million down the drain for 11 helos.

xwolverine:


Hurt? you don't get it do you?
Unlike you, I am not emotional about this, because at the end of the day, my Hinds are the one being upgraded, while you are stuck with 11 Rooivalks. The money paid doesn't go to SANDF, but to the private pockets of Ivor Ichikowitz, at the end of the day the helos are still mine. Like I said earlier, you should focus on raising funds for the broke SANDF and the SAAF with toddler pilots. And while at it, hold your generals responsible for throwing $700 million down the drain for 11 helos.

Fact!! remains, SA has made upgrades on NAF MI-35 and that hurts @agaugust big time.

mzilakazi:
That's what American war experts also say, that BH is either equal in strength or if not more powerful than Nigerian military. The whole world agrees that Nigerian military is weak.

can you truly swear by zuma's shrivelled c0ck that "american experts" declared the NA incompetent?.how can BH be remotely equal to the NA?,BH may be trained,but they certainly do not possess the level of sophistication that the NA squanders like warm mead in a pub.the russians soldiers,in all their might,were totted out of afghanistan with the tip of their ears by "sophisticated bandits".

mzilakazi:



Fact!! remains, SA has made upgrades on NAF MI-35 and that hurts @agaugust big time.

Nope, it's Russians working on South African soil....that's if at all NAF used SA, because Brazil has same upgrade factory too from Russia

mzilakazi:


If you don't know that then you are more fool than I thought. By the way, we upgraded your MI35 just to help those who are mentally handicapped.

The Mi-35 Hind helicopter upgrade industry in South Africa is technically set up, supplied and controlled by Mil Company of Russia.

The facility is Russian technology and manpower shipped and set up on South African soil.

Another interested country can apply to Russia and get the facility established on their home soil as foreign Mil company branch.

Brazil has the same Russian helicopter upgrade facility in city of Juan Veloso http://rostec.ru/en/news/4514251

Why don't South Africa integrate Umbani guided bomb on Gripen jet? Sweden refused to give you technical help for Umbani bomb.

Russia gave you it's staff and equipment to do Hind upgrades, you did not ingeniously create the Mi-35 upgrade capability on your own.

DENEL does same with a Russian company.


"Russian Helicopters Holding Company and South Africa’s Denel Aviation have established an authorized maintenance, repairs and overhaul (MRO) service center for Russian-made civil helicopters. Unveiling the MRO Service Center was timed to coincide with the BRICS summit in South Africa that brings together heads of state of the largest emerging economies in the world - Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa.

Senior management of Russian Helicopters Holding Company and Denel Aviation top executives attended the opening ceremony, along with heads of operator companies and prospective new buyers of Russian rotary-wing aircraft.

Russian Helicopters supplied all the equipment required for setting up the new maintenance and service center. In addition, the Russian holding company prepared full documentation and organized training for Denel Aviation employees. South African repair and maintenance technicians received training at the Novosibirsk Aircraft Repair Plant."

http://rostec.ru/en/news/1412

ATE too is a Russian branch in South Africa using a different name than Mil to work on Hind helicopters.

http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/south-african-and-russian-companies-in-helicopter-collaboration-2006-10-06


Southie glory thieves, international criminals, you have come again, this time na Russian glory you wan collect, if Putin catch you...

PHOTO : RUSSIAN EXPERTS TRANSFER HELICOPTER UPGRADE TECH AND TRAINING TO SOUTH AFRICAN BRANCH
.

mzilakazi:
Fact!! remains, SA has made upgrades on NAF MI-35 and that hurts @agaugust big time.

it is indeed shocking how the heat of the khalahari warps the common bantu mind.tell me,my esteemed friend,how does a private FOREIGN defence company{operating in SA},carrying out the mundane duty of upgrading nigeria's new MI35,translates into the whole of SA helping us make upgrades to the helo?

EVarn:
it is indeed shocking how the heat of the khalahari warps the common bantu mind.tell me,my esteemed friend,how does a private FOREIGN defence company{operating in SA},carrying out the mundane duty of upgrading nigeria's new MI35,translates into the whole of SA helping us make upgrades to the helo?

It's a Russian helicopter branch in South Africa, Brazil has the same thing....http://rostec.ru/en/news/4514251
.

Centrifude:


Who else provides such upgrades in this entire planet?

Brazil http://rostec.ru/en/news/4514251
.

GreenandGold:


Yet you go all out commenting on the beetle blog and it....

....says what it knows, and quotes what other say they know from their own source that is not his, he differentiates .

agaugust:


It's a Russian helicopter branch in South Africa, Brazil has the same thing....http://rostec.ru/en/news/4514251
.

these zulu barbarian savages would have claimed that they colonized america if they could.imagine,stealing the hard-work of honest russian folks!,embarrassing indeed.

mzilakazi:


We do not speak about equipment, we speak about the will to fight. BH is more aggressive and determined than Nigerian military.

You said BH is more powerful, is it a boxing match of muscles? Military power is weapons. Fool

xwolverine:


This discussion is degenerating into a huge joke which negates the importance of educating you on the specifics of the Hind project. As a matter of principle, don't make assumptions without facts to back it up, it doesn't augur well with the level of intelligence expected of an adult on a public fora like Nairaland. Making conjectures and stating half-truths thereby turning an intelligent discuss into joystick measurement competition brings this thread into disrepute. I will only reply to your comments when you start backing up your assumptions with facts.

Now I understand why Oga Henry120 doesn't like educating you guys, its tiring and you sometimes wonder if you are speaking with an adult.
Oga Henry120 I doff my hat bruv, its not an easy task.

You haven't yet patches, then, you would know it is not an easy task.

agaugust:


Brazil http://rostec.ru/en/news/4514251
.

Dude I'm talking about that Specific design which is normally associated with the Super-Hinds, its common knowledge that Brazil also offers Hind upgrades, show me a pic of a Brazil Modification that looks exactly or similar to the Super-Hind and I won't push this argument any further.

xwolverine:


And the hinds would stay idle while the Rooivalk shoots them out of the sky?


I thought you would put forward an intelligent argument, but i'm appalled at your assumptions.

Let me simplify it for you to understand that tactical warfare is not a game of one-sided assumptions. The Hinds are war tested and they have proven beyond reasonable doubt their capability. The Rooivalk on the other hand has only been used in a lopsided war against a ragtag rebel group, where the enemy doesn't have any capable aerial threat. Before a conflict between Nigeria and SA escalates to using the Helos, our fighter jets would have been scrambled to take out your non-existing tourist attraction Grippens and Rooivalks, while the Hinds would only come in for mop-up operations.

You are basing your assumptions on flawed premises like you are privy to the specifications of the Nigerian hinds. Just so you know, the hinds are not civilian hellos, and would know when there's a missile lock on it, with a capable counter measure in place.

You should be comparing the Hinds with the Apache's not an experimental Rooivalk only being operated by SA. You should be more worried about getting the parts for your 11 Rooivalks.

You keep punching these South-Africans below the belt.

"Experimental Rooivalk"...... classic!!

half-french helicopter.

xwolverine:


Now I'm sure you guys spend without foresight, if thats not the case then I don't know what is. Why would you spend a crazy amount of money on a non-sustainable venture and all you got from it was 11 helos? Same way you got Grippens without thinking of the pilots to fly them, sometimes I wonder if there's something in the water your decision makers drink.

$700 million has gone to corruption and a whole sovereign nation can only point to 11 helos, that's a record scandal spiced up with a huge dose of corruption.

Actually, they only got 10. 10 sub-par helicopters for a county with an area of over 1.2 million kilometers.

xwolverine:


No sir, i did help to keep his company running. Ever wondered why ATE which owns the upgrade tech was acquired by Paramount Advanced Technologies? The company needs customers like me to keep afloat seeing that the SAAF are not smart enough to spend with sense.

If the Rooivalk project got an international customer, the project would still be running by now, and we wouldn't be talking about shutting down development.

13 failed bids.

It says a lot about what people really think of the helicopter.

@agaugust
"The agreement provides for the integration of
ATE (and other) avionics in a wide range of
Russian civil helicopter designs"

"The ATE avionics packages would be available
for integration on newly-built helicopters or as
moder-nisation and upgrade packages for older
examples of these models."

This means that South African Technology (Avionics) will be integrated into Russian Models, the Upgrade Packages are still of South African Origin, it doesn't say anything about A.T.E belonging to Russia.

Russia provides the Aircraft or Airframes and we upgrade them with our kit. It is a collaboration, when you have such a collaboration you will need technology transfer, because South African tech is basically Western Technology and we need to understand Russian technology to incorporate our tech, that's why A.T.E tech is considered as the combination of western and eastern technology

"ATE has also developed a composite rotor blade
for the Mi-24, to replace its original metal
blades.
This new composite blade has been entirely
designed and developed in South Africa."


Thank you for sharing that A.T.E has developed their very own indigenous Rotor Blades

#Where does it say A.T.E belongs to Russia and the A.T.E Ugrade kit is from Russia


Learn to read and understand!!!

No one denys the fact that products are of Russian origin, and that for someone to do any kind of upgrades on other peoples products they first need to be trained by the creators, but that deal was sign in 2006 which means its already been 8years now S.A doesn't need Russia to help them or train them, we can do it on our own now.

agaugust:

[size=13pt]
Show us photo of the 5 Badger IFVs....and they are all factory prototypes anyway !

SANDF has NO SINGLE Badger IFV in service, you failed to prove that they are in service, we will wait till year 2020 when Badger dream may likely come to alive [/size]
.

sources have been posted

5 are in service
16 more on the way
236 to begin being built this year

agaugust:


[size=16pt]

Stop lying dude, I proved yesterday !

Basic version Badger armour and BTR-4 armour are same level, resists small arms only.
[/size]

http://www.armyrecognition.com/south_africa_african_army_wheeled_armoured_vehicle/badger_denel_8x8_armoured_infantry_fighting_vehicle_technical_data_sheet_specifications_pictures_.html
.

You said our badger is not amphibious

This means it has been up-armored

Thus it is resistant to 30mm AP

You made these assertions, not me.

agaugust:


Oh you forgot, 15 million South Africans have NEVER seen electricity since they were born !
.

More Nigerians have never seen electricity than there are South Africans

agaugust:
[size=13pt]

Who cares, we have 11 NAF F-7 jet fighters, we need only 1 sink your Stealth frigate.

F-7 jet speed is as fast as Umkhonto missile, so we can waste all your anti-aircraft missiles, and rocket the SAN frigate after that. Simple
.[/size]

Nope

We have talked about this before

Missiles are coming head-on, so speed is useless

You have never proven what rockets you have - so until you do, your F-7's will have to come into CRAM range and get eaten by AHEAD ammo

agaugust:


I have posted specs from website tanknutdave and video of detailed specs on youtube and proved BTR-4 is superior to the Badger.

The locomotive smoke puffing engine alone has rendered the Badger IFV obsolete as at today 2015, don't even mention specs

Meanwhile, in the jail cage where you are incarcerated in ANC prison yard, you are not aware that America is building new sophisticated amphibious IFV in a desperate effort to match the Russians who are too far ahead of USA in amphibious vehicle capability.

"The US Marine Corps’ AAVP7 Amtracs have been their primary ship to shore amphibious armored personnel carrier for a long time; the AAV7A1 was initially fielded in 1972, and underwent a major service life extension program and product improvement program from 1983-1993.

The personnel version of the new EFVs would carry a crew of 3, plus a reinforced rifle squad of 17 combat-loaded Marines. A high-tech weapons station would provide firepower. The EFV was expected to come in 2 main variants: EFV-P infantry fighting vehicles, and EFV-C command vehicles."

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usmcs-expeditionary-fighting-vehicle-sdd-phase-updated-02302/

@Patches, you got lost in a time machine, Soweto jail is not a good place to live o !
.

Augustus

That is the USMC

Their job is amphibious assault

Obviously their vehicals will be amphibious

The US Army (you know, the biggest of their armed services) is phasing out their amphibious vehicals

And in anycase, the USMC are considering the Patria for the same program
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/patrias-amv-for-usmcs-mpc-04062/

And no, you have yet to post how the BTR is better than the Badger. We want stats, analysis, details.

Why cant you tell us how it is better? Why are you unable to perform this simple task?

agaugust:


BTR-4 has periscope dude, cant't you read ? TKN-3MU combined day/night periscope.....Olodo

The BTR-4 also has a 360 degree view camera and video-tv, plus a 180 degree armoured glass view which Badger does not have
.

Badger also has a periscope as a backup system for the commander.

And you have yet to provide a source for this 360 degree camera

Badger driver can place his mantle in 3 positions, completely open, open and with a BP window, or "buttoned-down" where he uses a perisocope (pictures 1, 2 and 3)

So, badger has all the things the BTR has, as well as an added 360 degree veiwfinder with 3rd gen night vision

mzilakazi:


That's a lie. only 2million SA who live in places which seem to be difficult to erect posts for electrification do not have electricity in SA. FACT!!!

Those areas are as follows:
*Informal settlement
*Mountainous places
*Faraway places which are either listed as unknown.

Over 50 million Nigerians have no electricity

#HardFacts

agaugust:


Badger camera is exposed fully to snipers, BTR-4 camera is securely located under other steel frames.

Badger design is obsolete since 10 years ago on drawing paper
.

First, this is a ridiculous notion about "snipers" hitting a moving target, while under fire. Further, you have yet to prove that a snipers round will knock it out

Second, your BTR has not 360 degree veiwfinder

Third your BTR is a 2006 design, the Badger is a 2012 design

You say the BTR is better, yet as usual you cannot tell us why.

agaugust:


Valour ship and Heroine submarine are NOT built for effective maritime patrolling. You forgot how hungry South Africa is to buy modern IPV, MPV, and OPVs, you almost shiiit in your paaants here last month crying for imaginary IPVs and OPVs, swearing to to your village idols that ANC will buy 10 OPVs for your navy despite being broke....you have a short memory dude !
.

Valour Class is fine for maritime patrol, we just need more vessels that are cheaper to run

South Africa has 3X the money Nigeria does (more now since the oil price bottomed out) we can buy things you can only dream of - proven by the fact that tenders for 6 OPV's have been released.

Cry more delicious Nigerian tears.

agaugust:


Both standard Patria and Badger armour have protection only against small arms. So what ?
.

Amphibious Patria is only protected against small arms - because they need to keep it light

You say ours is not amphibious - this means heavyer armor is used. Thus, ours is using the same heavy armor that protects against 30mm AP rounds.

You have a choice, is ours Amphibious and have the same protection as the BTR?

OR

Is ours not amphibious and have heavy armor protection against 30mm?

Choice is yours.

agaugust:


That is NOT body armour dude, that is chassis under belly against land mines which MRAPS are supposed to do, NOT IFV.

BTR-4 has ground clearance to reduce IED threat. How many IEDs will you meet in a modern day war when land mines have been largely banned? Only insurgents use them, and BTR-4 has protection from basic IED.

You don't need land mine to kill Badger IFV, just Boko Haram 12.7mm machine guns will cut into the Badger like my finger pierces butter

All your 10 soldiers will d.ie inside the Badger when Bokos open fire with browning machine guns

.

First - read what you just said.

"We dont need mine/IED protection because only rebels use them"

Do I need to remind you that you are currently at war with an islamist rebel group?

According to your own argument our Badger is protected against 30mm AP

No, your BTR has zero IED protection.

agaugust:


Nigeria's BTR-4 current numbers are top secret, and more can be purchased as time goes on.

South African army has NO SINGLE Badger IFV in service today
.

Sources have been posted

5 in service

16 more on the way

236 to begin production this year