@RandomAfricanAm

I realized you know about my Gullah/Seminole wars thread on the site Coli. I wanna apologize for using some of your source and not crediting you to it. I think I did credited you.

KidStranglehold:
@RandomAfricanAm
I realized you know about my Gullah/Seminole wars thread on the site Coli. I wanna apologize for using some of your source and not crediting you to it. I think I did credited you.

No need, this is more important then my "ego". Besides I get my info from others also. The extra stuff tends to come from corroborating/fact checking what I read before disseminating it. Example this civil war stuff came from an account I wanted to check out. I didn't want to believe it until I could find the same docs as the person I heard it from... so I searched till I found it.


This is a quick teaser. I'll upload the link to the actual news articles(this is one of two) from the library of congress when I PM send the raw file dump.

RandomAfricanAm:



No need, this is more important then my "ego". Besides I get my info from others also. The extra stuff tends to come from corroborating/fact checking what I read before disseminating it. Example this civil war stuff came from an account I wanted to check out. I didn't want to believe it until I could find the same docs as the person I heard it from... so I searched till I found it.


This is a quick teaser. I'll upload the link to the actual news articles(this is one of two) from the library of congress when I PM send the raw file dump.

Who did you originally hear this from?

KidStranglehold:


Who did you originally hear this from?

African American civil war memorial/museum researcher


*Edit* The researcher will be included in a video at the bottom of the post. I would have put it up months ago but I had to corroborate his findings first. Those news paper articles being the hardest to find because I didn't know what publication they were printed in. Another reason I didn't post him is because he got some stuff wrong that I know is wrong in terms of linguistics that would serve to under cut the rest of his argument. So I had to build his case sans the questionable content.

RandomAfricanAm:


African American civil war memorial/museum researcher

Oh okay. But why has this been so hidden? Just like the Gullah wars....

RandomAfricanAm:





*Edit* The researcher will be included in a video at the bottom of the post. I would have put it up months ago but I had to corroborate his findings first. Those news paper articles being the hardest. Another reason I didn't post him is because he got some stuff wrong that I know is wrong in terms of linguistics that would serve to under cut the rest of his argument. So I had to build his case sans the questionable content.

I TOTALLY get what you're saying. Even though you may like what a source is saying you still have to take it with a grain of salt. Before I took this video with a grain of salt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoNTDABXBxU

That's when I started researching the things he was saying in the video and not only was he 100% and not getting stuff wrong, but I found out some new things I never knew about.

KidStranglehold:


Oh okay. But why has this been so hidden? Just like the Gullah wars....

Now that is a "rabbit hole" question right there, having less to do with those wars and more to do with the roots of "western philosophy". To make it brief, what you know of the civil war and enslavement period isn't so much a lie as it's simply an incomplete account. To push the issue a bit, when people claim "objectivity" it has to be understood that whatever "object" they construct is a culturally constructed "object".

To make it plain, culturally they only care about the generals, high level details, stratagems, tactics, etc and not the troops so they don't write an account of them(omission).



"the object (subset of tracked attributes) is always a cultural construction"

RandomAfricanAm:



Now that is a "rabbit hole" question right there, having less to do with those wars and more to do with the roots of "western philosophy". To make it brief What you know of the civil war and enslavement period isn't so much a lie as it's simply incomplete. to push the issue a bit when people claim "objectivity" it has to be understood that hat ever "object" they construct is a culturally constructed.

To make it plain, culturally they only care about the generals, high level details, stratagems, tactics, etc and not the troops so they don't write an account of them(omission).



"the object (subset of tracked attributes) is always a cultural construction"

Very good take and it makes sense. When you hear about the Civil War you really don't hear much about the regular troops.

KidStranglehold:


1. Why are you separating "Black American" and "African American?" The two are really interchangeable.

For lack of a better way to distinguish between Americans who are descended from Africans who came to the US during and shortly after the slave trade, and those who came long after....
Basically, I've used African American to refer to such people as Nigerian Americans, Kenyan Americans, Ghanaian Americans, etc and Black Americans to refer to those people who cannot be described so specifically.

2. Again why can't English be the language black American language? I mean most Bahamians and Barbadians speak English and not a language "of their own." Does that mean their original language has been lost, especially Bahamians?

Yes, it kind of does mean that their original language has been lost, especially if no one speaks it anymore. The fact that English is now their means of communication does not mean people from that geographical region never spoke a language they came up with themselves. So whilst English has become their Language, the original native speakers of English were not the Bahamians, and so crediting them with being the "owners" per say of English would be wrong.

3. And like I said many Black American subgroups like the Creoles, Gullahs and many others languages still have strong connection to Africa. Look up the Gullahs. Not only have their culture been preserved, but their language.

These people are specifically named Gullahs, Creoles etc. We can say that everyone of them is a black American, but not every black American is one of them. This majority of black Americans who are not creole/gullah/African American are not aware of the languages whose ownership can be credited to their ancestry, so cannot really be said to have a language, but only to speak a language, which at this point in time turns out to be English. Tomorrow, who knows, it may be Chinese.



Why I even thought about this.....By thinking about how much of an Impression one gives by the way they speak.

Language seems to be important, especially so in the competitiveness of societies as a whole over others. In itself, it does not seem relevant, but when you look at how non migratory segments of society make their lives better , they seem to do so in blocks of a group of people who speak the same language. This happens worldwide, and within countries, examples being the US, Nigeria, China, and Singapore to name a few. Groups of people who fall more or less into the same bracket of society often speak the same language, or come from the cultural background that speaks that language, myself included. Though I am not suggesting that language is the reason for this nor do I think it is.

But from there my mind went on to discrepancies between people of the same language background, and the idea that welfare is somehow linked to dialect came up, then I wondered to America, and Britain and how different people speak very differently even when speaking the same language, and since then I have been wondering whether simply by listening to one's dialect and speech mannerisms you can truly tell what sort of background they come from. In all this, people like Black Americans seem to stand out as people who do not have a language to begin with, but still have the speech differences im thinking/thought about. so voila, i'm interested because a group of people do not seem to have a language.

And now I'm no longer interested

Since you said you're no longer interested then theres no need for me to reply unless you want me to.

KidStranglehold:
Since you said you're no longer interested then theres no need for me to reply unless you want me to.

^
^
^
This

Also...

RandomAfricanAm:
Yeah I'm still reluctant to go into the language talk because it's obvious that there are some serious assumptions made in his statement that must be dealt with before anything else can be mentioned.

Understand the component parts of a language (grammar, lexicon(vocabulary, definitions),etc)....

Random Example: Just because two languages share vocabulary words doesn't mean their grammar or definitions are the same.
("Obama" in Luo doesn't share the same definition as "Obama" in Japanese & "edo" in benin doesn't share the same definition as "edo" in Japan)


If things like this aren't known we can't even fully start a meaningful conversation.

That said...
@KidStranglehold

Hey I suggest you check this out. It is a good intro into what I meant earlier about the "rabbit hole" concerning fundamental "western philosophical" assumptions/problems that cloud most issues we talk about.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkkNa7eMyF0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X_NwaHQsOA?list=PL4140C1A4FDFB3208

@RandomAfricanAm

Bookedmarked videos. Gonna watch them later. Thanks!

Also still keeping a look out for the PM.

KidStranglehold:
Since you said you're no longer interested then theres no need for me to reply unless you want me to.

I would read your reply, and someone else might be interested. Im just not going to comment.

@RandomAfricanAm

Still waiting for the PM. Just letting you know.

Funny i was just thinking of what all i should send and what else do i need to find to make the actual article.
I'm in accellerated training for a gig i'm doing with AT&T so i don't have much free time.

@RandomAfricanAm'


Understood. Make that $$$.

There's no such thing as "black americans" . You don't stop being an AFRICAN just because your ancestors were enslaved. They are American-AFRICANS. Those who emigrated there by their own free will are Nigerian/Ghanaian/Sierra-Leonean/Keyan-Africans, that's all.

This "shit" is just a way for you to not unite, and build an economy wherever you might be in the diaspora. Look at what the NYPD did to Amadou Diallo. He wasn't a so-called "African-American", but they still murdered him. Why? Because to other non-African peoples, "ya'll are the same" . It's not like the police is going to NOT "stop & frisk" you, just because you happen to be a Ghanaian-African living in USA.

Also, not all the slave-ships went directly to the states, they stopped in the caribbean to pick up "cargo" too, so there are many American-Africans with a multi-ethnic background (i.e Many have a combination of bantu, akan, igbo, wolof, mande, tuareg, fulani ancestry) , so it's difficult for our brothers in the US of A to EXACTLY pinpoint the exact ethnic group from which they hail. Sometimes it's IMPOSSIBLE.

Just RAA and KSH have articulated our point better than I could hope to thus far.

But, just for shits and giggles...

[size=16pt]List Of Surviving Creole Languages Spoken By African-Americans Today[/size]

Louisiana creole = French + Native American + African(Bambara, Wolof, Fon)
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=lou

Gullah/Geechee = English + African(Mandinka, Wolof, Bambara, Fula, Mende, Vai, Akan, Ewe, Yoruba, Igbo, Hausa, Kongo, Umbundu, Kimbundu)
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=gul

Afro-Seminole = Similar to Gullah, but less English, and no Mende influence.
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=afs

And one of the many now extinct unique AA languages.

Negro/Jersey Dutch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_Dutch

Supper:
Just RAA and KSH have articulated our point better than I could hope to thus far.

But, just for shits and giggles...

[size=16pt]List Of Surviving Creole Languages Spoken By African-americans Today[/size]

Louisiana creole = French + Native American + African(Bambara, Wolof, Fon)
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=lou

Gullah/Geechee = English + African(Mandinka, Wolof, Bambara, Fula, Mende, Vai, Akan, Ewe, Yoruba, Igbo, Hausa, Kongo, Umbundu, Kimbundu)
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=gul

Afro-Seminole = Similar to Gullah, but less English, and no Mende influence.
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=afs

And one of the many now extinct unique AA languages.

Negro/Jersey Dutch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_Dutch

Mind if I post this on the Coli?

KidStranglehold:


Mind if I post this on the Coli?

No, go right ahead. Just wanted feel what it was like posting here again. lol BTW I answered your email.

Never knew there was an extinct African American influenced Dutch language.

KidStranglehold:
Never knew there was an extinct African American influenced Dutch language.

There was a whole Afro-Dutch AA subculture in the Tri state area from it's colonial past.
http://www.academia.edu/3726524/Afro-Dutch_Folklore_and_Folklife

Check out the Pinkster festival that was once practiced up there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkster

Supper:


There was a whole Afro-Dutch AA subculture in the Tri state area from it's colonial past.
http://www.academia.edu/3726524/Afro-Dutch_Folklore_and_Folklife

Check out the Pinkster festival that was once practiced up there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkster

I'm from the Tri-State area and never knew of this.

KidStranglehold:


I'm from the Tri-State area and never knew of this.

Don't expect your public school curriculum nor your ghetto street-corner "scholars" in NYC to cover it, either.

Supper:


Don't expect your public school curriculum nor your ghetto street-corner "scholars" in NYC to cover it, either.

LOL!

Supper:


Don't expect your public school curriculum nor your ghetto street-corner "scholars" in NYC to cover it, either.

Hahaha to much! I have to acknowledge the perks of coming into my knowledge kinda randomly and independent of a lot of the F**kery that goes on. The sad part is that a lot of the works who they read from are diminished because of the propagation of misinterpretations.


The best way I can think of it is this....

Imagine a group of people who're malnourished because they eat the same foods. One day a master chief comes amongst them and tells them they actually have a more varied array of foods to choose from and also they come from a group of people who has a historic array of foods and dishes they could add to there diet that will improve there health.

Now while thats a great Idea in theory, in practice you have to teach those people how to cook not just tell them about foods and dishes. If you don't they are going to misinterpret how to create those dishes and screw up cooking those foods. Which will make the master chief them self look bad even though they are quite accomplished.



When I finally learned about African history my first conundrum was those people(ghetto street-corner "scholars" and how can they be both "wrong" and "right" at the same time. It was after a little thought that I realized that it wasn't the knowledge that was so much "bad"/"wrong" as was their interpretation of it(those two things are closely linked and easy to confuse)

Example:
Yes the Egyptians had a model approximating a glider


No Egyptians weren't flying gliders through the desert(there is a magazine cover depicting this**wish I could find it again**)




@Kidstranglehold
Passed the AT&T evaluation still have some training but hopefuly i'll get a sample batch of that data to you within the next couple days.

@Supper
You've been M.I.A for a minute yourself I see.

@RandomAfricanAm

Congratulations!!!!

RandomAfricanAm:


@Kidstranglehold
Passed the AT&T evaluation still have some training but hopefuly i'll get a sample batch of that data to you within the next couple days.

@Supper
You've been M.I.A for a minute yourself I see.

Haha, wow. Man, your analogies sure are well thought out. Good to be back and rev up ol' sparky(my supper account). lol I ghosted for about a month hovering around a couple old and new threads and noticed that surprisingly rise in the level of content in the discussion, particularly that submitted by AAs since back before I left, thanks in large part to you and KSH. So, why not come back and join the dream team.

And you're exactly right, these people who buy into these "scholars" lack the critical thinking skills and emotional discipline to hold the information given to them, whether it be from the HS classroom or the street scholar dvd characters, under the black light so to speak. But, instead form a bond with their surrogate prophets, instill an unheathly amount of idolation and trust in them, almost to the point of idol-worship, and take everything in with their hearts. It's a cruel cult of personality atypical of those that come from disenfranchised communities with low educational background.

Thus, why we get our myths about super natural, melanin mind-reading, ancient black samurai, olmecs of the pharaohic dynasty XX who lived on the super continent Pangaea had a command of 100 battle spaceships and shot eye lasers from their pupils. lol It get ridiculous.

Btw......congrats on the At&t evaluation. Got to get back to practicing Jscrip my damn self. lol

Supper:


Haha, wow. Man, your analogies sure are well thought out. Good to be back and rev up ol' sparky(my supper account). lol I ghosted for about a month hovering around a couple old and new threads and noticed that surprisingly rise in the level of content in the discussion, particularly that submitted by AAs since back before I left, thanks in large part to you and KSH. So, why not come back and join the dream team.

And you're exactly right, these people who buy into these "scholars" lack the critical thinking skills and emotional discipline to hold the information given to them, whether it be from the HS classroom or the street scholar dvd characters, under the black light so to speak. But, instead form a bond with their surrogate prophets, instill an unheathly amount of idolation and trust in them, almost to the point of idol-worship, and take everything in with their hearts. It's a cruel cult of personality atypical of those that come from disenfranchised communities with low educational background.

Thus, why we get our myths about super natural, melanin mind-reading, ancient black samurai, olmecs of the pharaohic dynasty XX who lived on the super continent Pangaea had a command of 100 battle spaceships and shot eye lasers from their pupils. lol It get ridiculous.

Btw......congrats on the At&t evaluation. Got to get back to practicing Jscrip my damn self. lol

LAMO!!!!!! While I do respect Tariq Nasheed for his work. I must admit he got the wrong people to speak on his Hidden Colors series.

One man make the most simplest of mistakes by thinking Ancient Ghana was located in modern day Ghana!!!

And freaking melanin powers!??

One I point this out to other black people they catch a hissyfit...

KidStranglehold:




One I point this out to other black people they catch a hissyfit...

Of course they do. You're attacking their prophet. I mean we've seen how people can get when you speak ill about their prophets.....Hello France

and hidden colors.........smh

runoko rashidi.........super smh

phil valentine.........ultra smh

KidStranglehold:




One man make the most simplest of mistakes by thinking Ancient Ghana was located in modern day Ghana!!!

You just reminded me of a part in the movie where they talked about Mansa Musa of the Mali empire and Moctezuma I of the Aztec empire being the same person, despite the fact that they lived at least 61 years apart!!!!! And people lap it up.

.......*slams head against wall*.

Supper:


Of course they do. You're attacking their prophet. I mean we've seen how people can get when you speak ill about their prophets.....Hello France

and hidden colors.........smh

runoko rashidi.........super smh

phil valentine.........ultra smh

The problem I have with some Afrocentrics is they never "update" their sources. They still hang onto chancellor Williams, Henri Clarke, Ivan Van Sertima, Diop, etc. Not saying that those guys are bad, but their sources are quite dated. Especially Chancellor Williams and Sertima.

I see many people like those in Hidden Colors and Clyde Winters hang onto Sertima's dated theory of the Olmec's being black.


We need to start looking to the S.O.Y. Keita's who's ideas are more up to date.