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Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? - Religion (5) - Nairaland

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Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 6:53am On Jan 10, 2015
ayoku777:


I had this opinion before also; that salvation cannot be lost. If you study my earlier posts when I first joined NL newly; I even argued vehemently for the "Once saved Always saved" doctrine.

But too many scriptures started starring me in the face that said otherwise. And I just couldn't continue to pretend I didn't see them and flip the page.

Romans 11v21-22 -For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest He also spare not thee.

Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee goodness, if thou continue in His goodness: otherwise THOU ALSO SHALT BE CUT OFF.

This was Paul writing to the Roman church, making it clear that being cut off from Christ is a clear and present danger -if they don't continue in the faith.

Bro, I like to deal with every verse independently so we don't leave any verse unaddressed as if the bible contradict.

Romans 11:21-22

We must understand that chapter 9 to chapter 11 was dedicated to the Jews. Paul had spoken about the church and her justification from chapter 4 to chapter 8. Chapter 11 was not speaking of the salvation of the church but the fate of the Gentile nation.

There are two nations in the bible as far as God is concerned, the Israel nation and the Gentile nation. Israel had always been the begotten of the father, they had all the privileges-
Romans 9
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. (Even Christ was revealed in the flesh through this nation)

They had it all good.

A time came when they became disobedient, the were stuck in hypocrisy and religion thus self serving. This attitude led them to kill their Messiah, their king, Jesus. They eventually met their waterloo and judgement after they killed Stephen.

Romans 10:21
New Living Translation
But regarding Israel, God said, [size=22pt]"All day long I opened my arms to them, but they were disobedient and rebellious."[/size]

God blinded the mind of this rebellious nation that salvation might come to the Gentile nation who were in the past fatherless, destitute of salvation.

Romans
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather [size=22pt]through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy[/size].

The bible says it isn't completely over for the nation of Israel because they have only stumbled and blinded until the time of the Gentile is complete.

I have said all of this to explain that one verse, Romans 11v21-22

The fall(stumble) of the Jewish nation does not mean individuals within the Jewish nation cannot be saved independently of the nation through GRACE. But as a nation God had cut them down and he has attached a 'wild olive tree', that in itself is a miracle. A useless branch was picked by God and attached miraculously to partake of the the Holy tree.

All Paul was saying to the primarily Gentile church is that, 'don't go down the way the other nation did through unbelief'. That is not to disqualify individual christians that are saved but a warning to the Gentile nation as a whole.
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 7:07am On Jan 10, 2015
ayoku777:


Revelation 3v5 -He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I WILL NOT BLOT OUT HIS NAME OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before His angels.

Jesus doesn't make threats, He says the truth as it is. If names cannot be blotted out of the book of life, He will not say that it can for any reason.

The bible also prophesied about the "FALLING AWAY" that will come at the end of the age.

The book of Revelation of Jesus Christ unveils the person of Christ in His glory accompanied with judgement. When Jesus visited the world as a baby, his glory was veiled but the book of Revelation depict Jesus as a severe judge coming with power, even the stars of heaven will fall on that day. No grace in this book or at this time anymore, no justification in this era- the book of James and Peter and some part of the four gospels perfectly fit in to this book like hands in glove.

People will be judged by their works, ability to endure an inexplicable suffering that will see people cook their own children for a meal. A time when you will have to be tagged as a non-christian or suffer the despicable and abhorrent consequences. Words can't describe the tribulation that is to come at the time of this Great Tribulation, yet your salvation can only be achieved if you endure to the end. It is not a free gift like we have it now, it will be WORKED for in full. A hand full of people will survive this period.

1 Like

Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 7:40am On Jan 10, 2015
ayoku777:

The bible also prophesied about the "FALLING AWAY" that will come at the end of the age.

2Thessalonians 2v3 -Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a FALLING AWAY FIRST, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

It is clear, that an unbeliever cannot "fall away", because they were never standing -only a believer can fall.

'FALLING AWAY'- Paul explained this term in the same chapter, Paul writes that there is a man who will stand and exalt himself as God in the temple of God. He says this man of sin will be followed by many because of his power which will be from the working of satan. They will be deluded by God to follow his lies because they have refused to follow the truth.

The 'falling away' is a time when Jesus will reveal the man of sin, subsequent to a time when many must have followed this religious leader in their large numbers.

These people are not christians but people who are deluded, people who believe a lie
2 thess
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

They do not believe the truth of God's word and his gospel which is the gateway to christianity and salvation by Grace through justification..
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by denisbid: 7:46am On Jan 10, 2015
paxonel:


Hmmmm!
Not all who said to me lord lord will enter into the kingdom of heaven.
For you to understand this, let me explain something about the kingdom of God .
Before Christ was crucified ( before the kingdom of heaven was established on earth, many disciples followed Christ and called him lord lord in those days, just to attend the kingdom which was about to be established at that time,which is Christianity. But few of the disciples were able to hold their believe firm until christ was crucified, infact, all of them ran away, even Peter who thought his faith in Christ was strong even denied Christ.
At the end when Jesus was finally crucified, when the kingdom was established, out of the 5000 disciples who eat 5 loaves and 2 fishes,only about 120 disciples started the christianty, which is the kingdom of God,on the day of pentecost, act 1:15.
Hence, few disciples who called him lord lord ended up entering Christianity.
Thats why he told them, strive to enter the gate, many will try to enter but few will gain entry.
Hence. The kingdom of God suffereth violence and the violent taketh it by force.
And on that day, (the day of his resurrection ) many will say, we cast out demons,we heal the sick.
You know, Jesus actually gave his disciples power to cast out demons and heal the sick even when they were not yet christians.
But Jesus told them, i know you not, meaning, they ran away when he was about to be crucified even after they saw the miracles.
Those disciples (120 of them ) were those that actually did the will of the father because they held their believe till the end, and because they saw him appear to them after the resurrection.
Today, we christians are already in that kingdom, we don't need to suffer what the disciples suffered in the wilderness when Christianity was about to be established 2000 years ago. We are far better than they.
The list person in Christianity is far better than John the Baptist and Judas Iscariot who died before Christianity was established, and we are better than all the prophets of old testament or Judaism. So, when i see pastors reading old testament for promises, they are just belittling themselves.
And they made people still waiting for rapture, meanwhile, the kingdom of heaven is already inside us in our spirit.
You know,God lives eternally, man lost his eternal life as a result of sin. Jesus restored that eternal life to man by bringing his kingdom down on earth the moment he was crucified.
as many of us that believe are part of that kingdom on earth. That kingdom is christianity.(If you understand Jesus parables when he will say, the kingdom of heaven is like unto...
Jesus is the founder of Christianity,just like Mohammed founded islam.
Christianity started after Christ was crucified, that means, before the crucifixion, it was Judaism, another religion entirely, but the same bible.
God has rejected Judaism(old covenant) and lifted Christianity ( the new covenant which is kingdom of heaven) for salvation.
Hence Christianity is now our faith. Without Christianity our faith it is impossible to please God.

.





this looks strange, it makes me feel i have never read bible before. then what is our pastors doing??
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 8:00am On Jan 10, 2015
ayoku777:


2Cor 1v24 -Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: FOR BY FAITH YE STAND.

All this rise of atheism and return to lack of faith in Christ by former christians is part of the fulfilment of that "Falling Away" prophecy of the end time.

I think we must understand that 'faith' has no generic meaning in the bible. Most people have one preconceived interpretation of faith every time they come across the word.

'Faith' as used in 2 cor 1:24 is 'trust'. Trust in God.


For by trust in God we stand(stand does not mean 'save' here either)
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 8:17am On Jan 10, 2015
ayoku777:


These scriptures and a few others like then, shows that yes; even though faith is truly a gift -according to:

Ephesians 2v8 -For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that (faith) not of yourselves: IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD:

But like all gifts; the gift of faith can be received or rejected or returned.

Someone can be:

A Believer -Someone who receives the gift of faith in Christ.

An unbeliever -One who rejects the gift of faith in Christ.

A Disbeliever -One who returns the gift of faith in Christ.

I will respond to this by saying we never played a part or worked for this gift of salvation. We were only called by God to accept it, if God does not call no one will accept this gift. It is not some power I have within me or the tone of the preacher or his gift of gab or eloquent speech that brought me to God. It was God Himself who woke the dead spirit/the inner man in me to respond to His call. If left to you and I, we will never choose God. He works in us to will, God said 'you did not call me but I called you'.

He gave us one way in, one way to a regeneration, one way to life eternal but He never gave us a way out. There was one way out of Egypt but there was no way back, if there were, the children of Israel would have gone back for cucumber, there was no way back to Egypt.

What you call a 'disbeliever' might simply be one aware of the truth but had never believed it completely.
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by BabaGnoni: 8:25am On Jan 10, 2015
shdemidemi:
The book of Revelation of Jesus Christ unveils the person of Christ in His glory accompanied with judgement.
When Jesus visited the world as a baby, his glory was veiled but the book of Revelation depict Jesus as a severe judge coming with power, even the stars of heaven will fall on that day.

No grace in this book or at this time anymore, no justification in this era
- the book of James and Peter and some part of the four gospels perfectly fit in to this book like hands in glove.

People will be judged by their works, ability to endure an inexplicable suffering that will see people cook their own children for a meal.

A time when you will have to be tagged as a non-christian or suffer the despicable and abhorrent consequences.
Words can't describe the tribulation that is to come at the time of this Great Tribulation,
yet your salvation can only be achieved if you endure to the end.

It is not a free gift like we have it now, it will be WORKED for in full.
A hand full of people will survive this period.

shdemidemi, God bless you for shouting this out from the rooftop
- it sure puts the frighteners on someone

Bleurgh!
One shudders at the manner of inexplicable suffering which will make a parent turn their kids into morsels of food.

Will parents REALLY be protecting themselves from dying of hunger or death by starvation
by ACTUALLY boiling and cooking their own children for morsels of meat?

Will parent without trying to help their kids or put their kids first, be that desperate to resort to cannibalism?

Eating of human flesh by a human being, to save their own hides, skins or flesh?
- God forbid, but, if the boot or shoe were on the other foot, by God's grace, rather them than me

What a shame. What an ignoble and abominable act this will turn out to be.
- despicable and abhorrent consequences indeed

1 Like

Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by ayoku777(m): 8:37am On Jan 10, 2015
denisbid:

this looks strange, it makes me feel i have never read bible before. then what is our pastors doing??

Paxonel is very right

That passage gave me problems too for a while. I had to pray to God and ask Him, who are those who called you Lord Lord and even did wonderful works in your name? Yet you never knew them?

Those guys are not christians, they are the jews who lived during the time of Christ's earthly ministry.

They followed Him, they called Him, “Lord, Lord”, they even did miracles and cast out devils in His name.

But they didn't do the will of the Father -which is to believe in Jesus as the Messiah, the Son of the living God, and in His death and resurrection.

These are not christians, these are jews who followed Jesus but didn't become christians.

Here are other scriptures that buttress this truth:

Luke 13v25-27 -When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lorf, open unto us; and He shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.

But He shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me all ye workers of iniquity.

These are Jews who lived and followed Christ during His earthly ministry. They drank and ate in His presence, listened to Him preach in their streets and even called Him Lord.

Many of such believers even casted out demons in His name:

Luke 9v49 -And John answered and said, Master, we saw one CASTING OUT DEVILS IN THY NAME; and we forbade him, because he followeth not with us.

And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

They did many works in His name, but many of such deserted Christ before His death and resurrection and didn't follow on to become christians. They left Jesus before the New covenant.

These are the ones who will be told Depart from me I never knew you. Those who followed Jesus and called him Lord under the old covenant but didn't follow Him into the new (post-resurrection)

Anyone who calls Jesus Lord from the heart now under the new covenant has the Holy Spirit, he is not a worker of iniquity and Jesus knows him.
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by ayoku777(m): 8:47am On Jan 10, 2015
shdemidemi:


I will respond to this by saying we never played a part or worked for this gift of salvation. We were only called by God to accept it, if God does not call no one will accept this gift. It is not some power I have within me or the tone of the preacher or his gift of gab or eloquent speech that brought me to God. It was God Himself who woke the dead spirit/the inner man in me to respond to His call. If left to you and I, we will never choose God. He works in us to will, God said 'you did not call me but I called you'.

He gave us one way in, one way to a regeneration, one way to life eternal but He never gave us a way out. There was one way out of Egypt but there was no way back, if there were, the children of Israel would have gone back for cucumber, there was no way back to Egypt.

What you call a 'disbeliever' might simply be one aware of the truth but had never believed it completely.

That is exactly what I am saying, God calls us but we reserve the right to answer the call or reject it.

I know that if God does not offer salvation, we can't desire it enough as to get it. But that He offers it doesn't mean we have no choice but to accept it.

Or do you think God is the one that makes those who accept Jesus to accept Him, and He made those who reject Jesus to reject Him?

Do you believe we have the God given right to receive, reject and return our faith in Christ OR God works in us to receive and reject Jesus too?
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by BabaGnoni: 8:53am On Jan 10, 2015
italo:
I wish I could help the guy above but how can you help a guy who says that Jesus' gospel is different from Paul's gospel
...and that the Jesus on earth is different from the one in heaven now.

His problem is too deep.

italo:
The above is the first thing I said about him when I got on this thread.
Then one biased BabaGnoni accused me of ad hominem and not arguing logically.
Then i decided to engage him in a reasonable discussion while quoting BabaGnoni all the time,
alas...the BabaGnoni has since disappeared into Afi River Forest.

There you go again.
Why couldnt you leave out "biased" when mentioning the ID?

"...accused me of ad hominem and not arguing logically..."
- © italo

accused me of ad hominem and not arguing logically?
Regarding the "ad hominem", you were getting personal with shdemidemi instead of tackling his current post or submission
C'mom admit it, you strayed when you outlined some of his opposing viewpoints which werent within the scope of this thread raised by FortresOfChrist

Regarding the "not arguing logically", I posted you made a logical fallacy
because if according to you, one who preaches is a preacher, teaches is a teacher, sings is a singer, bakes is a baker
and then drum roll, your pièce de résistance, one who sins is a sinner
why then is not your child who does bad, not a baddie
This is where I said you made a logical fallacy (i.e. you made a mistake)

alas...the BabaGnoni has since disappeared into Afi River Forest
- © italo

BabaGnoni has since disappeared into Afi River Forest?
You got that wrong, as BabaGnoni, personally would have preferred disappearing to the top of Afi Mountain

You don't know the half of it. You sure made me laugh
italo, subtlety is the art of saying something and getting out of the way before it is understood
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 8:55am On Jan 10, 2015
italo:
James 2:21 Was not our ancestor Abraham justified by works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?

Abraham was justified thousands of years before Jesus came.

Justification is dependent on works according to James and this is so looking from the perspective of the law and legalism. James is a Jew, even as a Christian he remained a practising Jew who upheld all of the temple worship and Jewish rituals and traditions. James' primary audience were the Jews also known as the 'circumicision'
Gal 2
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen(Gentiles), and they unto the circumcision(Jews).

This is how Paul explained justification-

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, [size=22pt]but by the faith of Jesus Christ[/size], even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Paul was sent to the heathen with his message of Grace that will never be accepted by the nation of Israel(then and now). Individual Jews can accept it but as a nation, the message of Grace is a concept that will never resonate with the nation. God made them blind to this truth.

Peter knew this but he could not face the persecution that comes with the message. However, he approved the message when he called it 'scripture'.


italo:

So your answer is false. Those people were justified, yet committed sin and went to hell.

how did they get justified?

italo:
That makes me correct. The early Church believed and was justified, yet it sinned and was called carnal.

If they were 'carnal' (I am using 'carnal' as complete enmity with God), why would Paul say this about them-
1 cor 1
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints,
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 9:10am On Jan 10, 2015
ayoku777:


That is exactly what I am saying, God calls us but we reserve the right to answer the call or reject it.

I know that if God does not offer salvation, we can't desire it enough as to get it. But that He offers it doesn't mean we have no choice but to accept it.

Or do you think God is the one that makes those who accept Jesus to accept Him, and He made those who reject Jesus to reject Him?

Do you believe we have the God given right to receive, reject and return our faith in Christ OR God works in us to receive and reject Jesus too?

This is where the doctrine of 'election' comes in. Salvation is the complete work of God. If God comes calling, no man can resist His call, not even Saul turn Paul.

In the day of God's power, the bible says His people shall be willing. The ability to will is propelled by God, if there is no will, there wouldn't be an interest that leads to acceptance.

The salvation journey starts from God and ends with God. The same way Jesus called up the carcass of dead Lazarus, He calls our dead spirit to life, only then can we respond to the call.
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 9:23am On Jan 10, 2015
Ayoku777,
Have you ever read this verse?

Matthew 10:33 King James Version (KJV)
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by ayoku777(m): 9:28am On Jan 10, 2015
vooks:
Ayoku777,
Have you ever read this verse?

Matthew 10:33 King James Version (KJV)
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Yes sir, I have read it.

What's your point?

How do we deny Christ under the new covenant? Can someone who believes in Christ and has received the promise of the Spirit through faith still be said to be denying Christ?

This is how to deny Christ

1John 2v22 -Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is the antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

To deny Jesus is to not believe He is the Messiah, the Son of the living God.

A believer cannot deny Jesus, otherwise he is no more a believer.
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 9:31am On Jan 10, 2015
Can someone who believes in Christ presently DENY Him at some point in future?
ayoku777:


Yes sir, I have read it.

What's your point?

How do we deny Christ under the new covenant? Can someone who believes in Christ and has received the promise of the Spirit through faith still be said to be denying Christ?
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by ayoku777(m): 9:35am On Jan 10, 2015
vooks:
Can someone who believes in Christ presently DENY Him at some point in future?

Ofcourse, it is possible to give up on your faith in Christ Jesus.

Names can be blotted out of the book of life according to Jesus.

And that means someone who once had eternal life can lose it, if he loses his faith in Christ.

This is how to deny Christ

1John 2v22 -Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is the antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

To deny Jesus is to not believe He is the Messiah, the Son of the living God.

A believer cannot deny Jesus, otherwise he is no more a believer.
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 9:38am On Jan 10, 2015
Not to intrude,
Shdemidemi, are you one of those 'elect'?
shdemidemi:


This is where the doctrine of 'election' comes in. Salvation is the complete work of God. If God comes calling, no man can resist His call, not even Saul turn Paul.

In the day of God's power, the bible says His people shall be willing. The ability to will is propelled by God, if there is no will, there wouldn't be an interest that leads to acceptance.

The salvation journey starts from God and ends with God. The same way Jesus called up the carcass of dead Lazarus, He calls our dead spirit to life, only then can we respond to the call.
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 9:39am On Jan 10, 2015
vooks:
Not to intrude,
Shdemidemi, are you one of those 'elect'?


YES
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 9:40am On Jan 10, 2015
What would be the consequence of this denial of Jesus?
ayoku777:


Ofcourse, [size=4pt]it is possible to give up on your faith in Christ Jesus.

Names can be blotted out of the book of life according to Jesus.

And that means someone who once had eternal life can lose it, if he loses his faith in Christ.

This is how to deny Christ

1John 2v22 -Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is the antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

To deny Jesus is to not believe He is the Messiah, the Son of the living God.

A believer cannot deny Jesus, otherwise he is no more a believer.[/size]
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 9:40am On Jan 10, 2015
How do you know?
shdemidemi:



YES
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 9:42am On Jan 10, 2015
vooks:
How do you know?

The book say so and I believe the book with all of my being.
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 9:43am On Jan 10, 2015
What book and where does it say that Shdemidemi is Elect?
shdemidemi:


The book say so and I believe the book with all of my being.
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by ayoku777(m): 9:45am On Jan 10, 2015
vooks:
What would be the consequence of this denial of Jesus?

What is the end of those who don't believe in the Jesus as the Messiah and Son of God?

Ofcourse it is the Lake of fire.

What's your point?
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 9:48am On Jan 10, 2015
Thank you sir.

Don't you think this verse contradicts Once-Saved-Always-Saved teaching?
If you confess Christ and then you deny him, He is still 'bound' to confess you before the Father
ayoku777:


What is the end of those who don't believe in the Jesus as the Messiah and Son of God?

Ofcourse it is the Lake of fire.

What's your point?
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 9:51am On Jan 10, 2015
vooks:
What book and where does it say that Shdemidemi is Elect?

The bible is the book my friend.

It says I am an elect of God countlessly in scripture. Every believer is who has the Spirit of Christ in them is. Do you want to see where the book says a believer(which I am a part) of the gospel is an elect?
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 9:53am On Jan 10, 2015
Let me trust you on this one
Can you have the Spirit of Christ in you WITHOUT being Elect?
shdemidemi:


The bible is the book my friend.

It says I am an elect of God countlessly in scripture. Every believer is who has the Spirit of Christ in them is. Do you want to see where the book says a believer(which I am a part) of the gospel is an elect?
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by ayoku777(m): 9:54am On Jan 10, 2015
vooks:
Thank you sir.

Don't you think this verse contradicts Once-Saved-Always-Saved teaching?
If you confess Christ and then you deny him, He is still 'bound' to confess you before the Father

Yes. I don't believe in the once saved always doctrine too.

Names can be blotted out of the book of life, meaning eternal life can be lost.

We need to KEEP the faith.
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 9:55am On Jan 10, 2015
vooks:
Let me trust you on this one
Can you have the Spirit of Christ in you WITHOUT being Elect?


Never
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 9:57am On Jan 10, 2015
ayoku777:


Yes. I don't believe in the once saved always doctrine too.

Names can be blotted out of the book of life, meaning eternal life can be lost.

We need to KEEP the faith.

In that case, we need to analyse the scriptures that led to your current belief. If you so desire.
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 9:58am On Jan 10, 2015
So you can't possibly partake Holy Spirit if you are not Elect?
shdemidemi:



Never
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by italo: 9:59am On Jan 10, 2015
BabaGnoni:

There you go again.
Why couldnt you leave out "biased" when mentioning the ID?

"...accused me of ad hominem and not arguing logically..."
- © italo

accused me of ad hominem and not arguing logically?
Regarding the "ad hominem", you were getting personal with shdemidemi instead of tackling his current post or submission
C'mom admit it, you strayed when you outlined some of his opposing viewpoints which werent within the scope of this thread raised by FortresOfChrist

Regarding the "not arguing logically", I posted you made a logical fallacy
because if according to you, one who preaches is a preacher, teaches is a teacher, sings is a singer, bakes is a baker
and then drum roll, your pièce de résistance, one who sins is a sinner
why then is not your child who does bad, not a baddie
This is where I said you made a logical fallacy (i.e. you made a mistake)

alas...the BabaGnoni has since disappeared into Afi River Forest
- © italo

BabaGnoni has since disappeared into Afi River Forest?
You got that wrong, as BabaGnoni, personally would have preferred disappearing to the top of Afi Mountain

You don't know the half of it. You sure made me laugh
italo, subtlety is the art of saying something and getting out of the way before it is understood

Ah...so you're alive. Now can you answer the queries I put to you?

And yes, I can call anyone who does bad a baddie...or anyone who steals a thief...or anyone who lies a liar...or anyone who pretends a pretender...or anyone who sins a sinner.

No fallacy there.
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 9:59am On Jan 10, 2015
Same case applies to you my broda
shdemidemi:


In that case, we need to analyse the scriptures that led to your current belief. If you so desire.

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