vooks:
So you can't possibly partake Holy Spirit if you are not Elect?

When you say partake, what do you mean?

God uses anyone through His Spirit to accomplish His purpose and that includes mr devil. If 'partake' does not mean the Holy Spirit is permanently resident in you, my answer is YES.

Let's go back to Matthew 7

Matthew 7:20-23 King James Version (KJV)
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Please walk me through how you ID the 'many' of v22 as being per-resurrection miracle workers/Christians and not post-resurrection

ayoku777:


Yes. I don't believe in the once saved always doctrine too.

Names can be blotted out of the book of life, meaning eternal life can be lost.

We need to KEEP the faith.

vooks:
Same case applies to you my broda

I am always ready for that..the onus is on you to show me a justified yet hell bound believer.

shdemidemi:


In that case, we need to analyse the scriptures that led to your current belief. If you so desire.

What does it mean for a name to be blotted out of the book of life?

Is it that the person was never saved or he lost the salvation?

Can someone who was never born again have his name in the book of life?

I see that people are dodging my questions, so I listed them here again.

Please BabaGnoni, shdemidemi, ayoku777, answer Yes or No. No long dubious epistles.

Vooks, alwaystrue, FortresOfChrist, please by my witnesses.
Tell us simply:

1. Were the people in Matt 7:22 justified?
2. Were members of the early Corinthian Church justified?
3. Did the members of the early Corinthian Church sin?
4. Was St. Paul justified when he wrote Romans 7?
5. Was St. Paul sinning when he wrote Romans 7?
6. Was Paul talking to justified believers in 1Cor6:8?
7. Were the people Paul was talking to in 1Cor6:8 doing wrong and sinning?
8. Do wrongdoers go to heaven?
9. In Rom11:20-23, was Paul talking to Roman justified believers?
10. Could these people be cut off from Christ?

ayoku777:


What does it mean for a name to be blotted out of the book of life?

Is it that the person was never saved or he lost the salvation?

Can someone who was never born again have his name in the book of life?

Please show me where the bible say ones name will be blotted out.

The word has VERY FEW meaning(s)
κοινωνός (koinōnos)

Strong: G2844

GK: G3128

a fellow, partner, companion, Mt. 23:30; Lk. 5:10; 1 Cor. 10:18, 20; 2 Cor. 8:23; Phlm. 17; Heb. 10:33; a sharer, partaker, 2 Cor. 1:7; 1 Pet. 5:1; 2 Pet. 1:4


Can Holy Spirit reside in some people temporarily? If yes, could you please give examples?

Thank you

shdemidemi:


When you say partake, what do you mean?

God uses anyone through His Spirit to accomplish His purpose and that includes mr devil. If 'partake' does not mean the Holy Spirit is permanently resident in you, my answer is YES.

italo:
I see that people are dodging my questions, so I listed them here again.

Please BabaGnoni, shdemidemi, ayoku777, answer Yes or No. No long dubious epistles.

Vooks, alwaystrue, FortresOfChrist, please by my witnesses.
Tell us simply:

1. Were the people in Matt 7:22 justified?
2. Were members of the early Corinthian Church justified?
3. Did the members of the early Corinthian Church sin?
4. Was St. Paul justified when he wrote Romans 7?
5. Was St. Paul sinning when he wrote Romans 7?
6. Was Paul talking to justified believers in 1Cor6:8?
7. Were the people Paul was talking to in 1Cor6:8 doing wrong and sinning?
8. Do wrongdoers go to heaven?
9. In Rom11:20-23, was Paul talking to Roman justified believers?
10. Could these people be cut off from Christ?

My friend I never evaded your question, I asked the last one that is yet to be answered if anything.

Before you see that, what do you understand by the words blotting out a name?

cc Ayoku777

shdemidemi:


Please show me where the bible say ones name will be blotted out.

@Image123 and @Bidam,
Happy new year. Good to know i was missed Gosh that was vain.



Guys and @FortresOfChrist,
Nice watching the different posts you get to learn from everyone no matter how minute.
The book of Revelation is just like the book of Malachi but the difference is just that God was promising to send John and His Son to forestall His destroying the earth while in Revelation it is total destruction if they refused to repent.

A prisoner who is justified but still feels the grace he has received for justification enables him to act less disciplined will only have himself to blame. There would not have been need for the warnings of Paul and Christ in Revelation to His Church if He didn't mean business.

We are saved and justified without having to work for it so we are enabled and less stressed to work in Him and do what He had fore-ordained by being a pleasure to God. Our lives are just not our own and that is why we have to be living sacrifices...it is a painful and uncomfortable process...it is never easy. That was why Paul said he died daily....mortify your members he said.

shdemidemi:


Please show me where the bible say ones name will be blotted out.

Rev 3v5 -He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before His angels.

vooks:
The word has VERY FEW meaning(s)
κοινωνός (koinōnos)

Strong: G2844

GK: G3128

a fellow, partner, companion, Mt. 23:30; Lk. 5:10; 1 Cor. 10:18, 20; 2 Cor. 8:23; Phlm. 17; Heb. 10:33; a sharer, partaker, 2 Cor. 1:7; 1 Pet. 5:1; 2 Pet. 1:4


Can Holy Spirit reside in some people temporarily? If yes, could you please give examples?

Thank you

The Holy Spirit does reside in men temporarily and this He did all through the old testament. No wonder David prayed saying-
King James Bible
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

That is why they used the term 'anointing'. People were anointed temporarily in the old when they are enabled by the Holy Spirit.

Today, the Holy Spirit permanently reside in every believer.

Do you see how CONTRADICTORY the hghlighted sentences are?

1. The Holy Spirit DOES
2.The Holy Spirit DOES NOT

shdemidemi:


The Holy Spirit does reside in men temporarily and this He did all through the old testament. No wonder David will pray that saying-
King James Bible
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

That is why they used the term 'anointing'. People were anointed temporarily in the old when they are enabled by the Holy Spirit.

Today, the Holy Spirit permanently reside in every believer.

italo:
I see that people are dodging my questions, so I listed them here again.

Please BabaGnoni, shdemidemi, ayoku777, answer Yes or No. No long dubious epistles.

Vooks, alwaystrue, FortresOfChrist, please by my witnesses.
Tell us simply:

1. Were the people in Matt 7:22 justified?
2. Were members of the early Corinthian Church justified?
3. Did the members of the early Corinthian Church sin?
4. Was St. Paul justified when he wrote Romans 7?
5. Was St. Paul sinning when he wrote Romans 7?
6. Was Paul talking to justified believers in 1Cor6:8?
7. Were the people Paul was talking to in 1Cor6:8 doing wrong and sinning?
8. Do wrongdoers go to heaven?
9. In Rom11:20-23, was Paul talking to Roman justified believers?
10. Could these people be cut off from Christ?

Obviously you've not understood my point or my stand.

I've been pretty explicit about my scriptural stand that A CHRISTIAN CAN LOSE HIS SALVATION but not until the point of unbelief (or disbelief) in Christ.

I don't believe a christian loses his salvation when he sins, no matter how many times and I've shown verses to buttress that.

But that if carnality degenerates to the point that He no more believes in Jesus as the Messiah; he is no more a believer. He has denied Christ and he loses his salvation.

That's my point.

ayoku777:


Rev 3v5 -He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before His angels.

Bro, did He say he will blot out any name here?

I know your argument might go in the line of, 'if he says he won't he probably can'. Is this enough to build a doctrine of 'blotting out names'?

shdemidemi:
My friend I never evaded your question, I asked the last one that is yet to be answered if anything.

Are you minding him...
He is learning selective forgetfulness and convenient ignorance just like frosbel does sometimes

italo:
As for the argument, maybe you can help me ask him these questions related to my earlier post:

Matt 7:21
²¹“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
²² On that day many will say to me,
‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?’
²³ Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.’

1. Were the people in the passage justified? Yes or no.
2. Did they commit sin? Yes or no.
3. Did the go to heaven? Yes or no.

@shdemidemi, please answer yes or no. No stories.

BabaGnoni:
1. Were the people in the passage justified? Yes or no.
>> Ans: No
2. Did they commit sin? Yes or no.
>> Ans: Yes
3. Did the go to heaven? Yes or no.
>> Ans: No

The people in that verse weren't genuine saints to start with
italo check the argument in Romans 3:7 out for reasons behind the binaries given above

Someone might argue,
"If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?"
- Romans 3:7 NIV


Goshen360 with some instructives, had earlier did some overtime on righteous and the righteousness of God in Christ

Jesus in Luke 5:32 and Luke 15:7 hinted what a sinner that repents becomes.
The fact & truth of the matter, is that sinner after repetance becomes righteous
Sinners translate and become righteous (i.e. received righteousness via Christ)

I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."
- Luke 5:32 NIV

I say unto you,
that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth,
more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
- Luke 15:7 King James Bible

In the same way,
I tell you that there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents
than over 99 righteous people who don't need to repent."
- Luke 15:7 ISV

The righteousnes of God in Christ is superimposed on a repented sinner, so that what God sees, is not sin, but rather what He sees, is His righteous, in Christ.
The repented sinner no longer has the sinner tag, he is now a new creation, old things have passed away and all things about him/her has become new
The person is now RIGHTEOUS and as opposed to been called a SINNER, is now called a SAINT

One who believes is a believer. One who preaches is a preacher.
One who doesnt believe is an unbeliever. One who sings is a singer. One who teaches is a teacher.
So does it require rocket science to know that one who sins is a sinner?
- © italo

italo, this is a logical fallacy because your child that does anything BAD, but is not necessarily called a BADDIE
In every parents' eye, their kid wont melt butter in their mouths, so are saints in God's eyes or with God (i.e. saints aren't called sinners)
- it's all down to the Righteous of God in Christ that saints possess or have

Scripture 1 Peter 4:18, like lets us know that there is a distinction between the sinner and the righteous

And if a righteous person is saved with difficulty, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?
- 1 Peter 4:18 Holman Christian Standard Bible

The above © italo copyright does not apply or work with the Saints‎. Saints sins but have the opportunity to approach the throne of grace boldly for mercy (i.e. forgiveness) and assistance when their world crumbles and/or in the times of trouble like after sinning (i.e. Hebrews 4:15-16)

We all sin at the drop of the hat but it in the context of now been made righteous and being a Saint, it doesn't necessarily make us sinners
‎- Sinners are those bound to or heading for destruction in the Lake of fire. This is the instructive distinction of who is a sinner and who is a saint

Now we know that God heareth not sinners:
but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth
- John 9:31 KJ Bible

But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners,
is therefore Christ the minister of sin?
God forbid.
Galatians 2:17KJ Bible

Saints that sins ARE NOT sinners, but are saints or righteous that sin
Saints can revert back to sinners though

Grace, is the ability to do things effortlessly, like ability to refrain from effortlessly sinning
(i.e. not sin easily and without having to struggle with not comitting sin)

Birds fly gracefully, they fly without struggling (i.e. God gave them that grace),
Saints are given grace NOT FOR sin or sinning but given grace NOT to sin (i.e. ability to effortlessly not sin)

https://www.nairaland.com/2076644/christian-justify-still-guilty-charged/1#29626486

Notice the red text from the above that he was answered

vooks:
Do you see how CONTRADICTORY the hghlighted sentences are?

1. The Holy Spirit DOES
2.The Holy Spirit DOES NOT

No contradiction at all. There is an OLD and a NEW.

The functions of the Holy Spirit before the ascension of Christ isn't the same with His function in His dispensation.

He was present in the dispensation of the father, He was also present in the dispensation of the son, we are presently in the dispensation of the HOLY SPIRIT.

vooks:
Let's go back to Matthew 7

Matthew 7:20-23 King James Version (KJV)
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Please walk me through how you ID the 'many' of v22 as being per-resurrection miracle workers/Christians and not post-resurrection

Ofcourse!

If a new testament believer, miracle worker, prophet, demon caster at a point stops believing in Christ, he ceases to be a believer.

Maybe we need to go back to the fundamentals and define who a believer is.

Revelation 3:5King James Version (KJV)
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

3 Promises to him that overcomes
1. Clothed in white raiment
2. His name will NOT be blotted out
3. Jesus will confess his name before the Father

What about he who won't overcome? The exact OPPOSITE of that.
1. Won't be clothed in white raiment
2. His name will be blotted out
3. Jesus will deny him (He said that in the Gospels) before the Father

Before you respond, ponder, what's the value of a promise to overcomers if it is equally available to non-overcomers? Isn't that like Jesus promising Power/Holy Spirit to them that believe yet he readily baptizes even unbelievers?
And exactly what do you mean by blotting out his name from the book of life?

shdemidemi:


Bro, did He say he will blot out any name here?

I know your argument might go in the line of, 'if he says he won't he probably can'. Is this enough to build a doctrine of 'blotting out names'?

shdemidemi:


Bro, did He say he will blot out any name here?

I know your argument might go in the line of, 'if he says he won't he probably can'. Is this enough to build a doctrine of 'blotting out names'?

He says he won't blot out the names of those who overcome. What of those who don't overcome? He will still not blot it out?

Is it an empty warning?

Does the Holy Spirit reside in some people temporarily? Either He does or he doesn't

I trust English is your secondary language but you do understand tenses

shdemidemi:


No contradiction at all. There is an OLD and a NEW.

The functions of the Holy Spirit before the ascension of Christ isn't the same with His function in His dispensation.

He was present in the dispensation of the father, He was also present in the dispensation of the son, we are presently in the dispensation of the HOLY SPIRIT.

vooks:

Revelation 3:5King James Version (KJV)
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

3 Promises to him that overcomes
1. Clothed in white raiment
2. His name will NOT be blotted out
3. Jesus will confess his name before the Father

What about he who won't overcome? The exact OPPOSITE of that.
1. Won't be clothed in white raiment
2. His name will be blotted out
3. Jesus will deny him (He said that in the Gospels) before the Father

Before you respond, ponder, what's the value of a promise to overcomers if it is equally available to non-overcomers? And exactly what do you mean by blotting out his name from the book of life?

Touché!

Exactly the point.

ayoku777:


Obviously you've not understood my point or my stand.

I've been pretty explicit about my scriptural stand that A CHRISTIAN CAN LOSE HIS SALVATION but not until the point of unbelief (or disbelief) in Christ.

I don't believe a christian loses his salvation when he sins, no matter how many times and I've shown verses to buttress that.

But that if carnality degenerates to the point that He no more believes in Jesus as the Messiah; he is no more a believer. He has denied Christ and he loses his salvation.

That's my point.

Then these questions are for you.

6. Was Paul talking to justified believers in 1Cor6:8?
7. Were the people Paul was talking to in 1Cor6:8 doing wrong and sinning?
8. Do wrongdoers go to heaven?
9. In Rom11:20-23, was Paul talking to Roman justified believers?
10. Could these people be cut off from Christ by failing to be kind?

italo:
Ah...so you're alive. Now can you answer the queries I put to you?

And yes, I can call anyone who does bad a baddie...or anyone who steals a thief...or anyone who lies a liar...
or anyone who pretends a pretender...or anyone who sins a sinner.

No fallacy there.

I am alive and kicking
As mentioned above stop playing amnesia, you have already been answered

Not so fast Watson, who mentioned: "...call ANYONE who does bad a baddie"?
I wrote is YOUR CHILD who does bad, a baddie?
Do you call your CHILD, that's if you have any at all, a baddie?

Taking it further, does the bible teach that believers (i.e. christians) are sinners or teaches that they are righteous (i.e. saints)?
Yes or No?
Which? Sinners or Saints? (i.e. righteous)
Back up your answers with scripture (i.e. validate it with scripture please)

ayoku777:

Maybe we need to go back to the fundamentals and define who a believer is.

I think this is the core issue. Who is a believer? Checking this is to bring out the words of Jesus Christ and add the epistles of Paul.
Seems people think believing in Jesus involves just the notion he died for our sins and rose again and discard his whole person and the truth he spoke even in the gospels.

ayoku777:


He says he won't blot out the names of those who overcome. What of those who don't overcome? He will still not blot it out?

Is it an empty warning?

The problem here is the 'what of'. What if there name was never written there?

Why don't we work with what Jesus said rather than assume that He might be saying something else on the flip side?

If God really knows the end from the beginning, would He really need to be blotting out names that He had written?

The book of Revelation says only a remnant of 14400 will be saved, don't you think He knows them already if He can know their number?

Is God a reactive God, does He do plan B, do things catch him off guard to necessitate improvisation?

BabaGnoni:


Are you minding him...
He is learning selective forgetfulness and convenient ignorance just like frosbel does sometimes





Notice the red text from the above that he was answered

1. Were the people in Matt 7:22 justified?
2. Were members of the early Corinthian Church justified?
3. Did the members of the early Corinthian Church sin?
4. Was St. Paul justified when he wrote Romans 7?
5. Was St. Paul sinning when he wrote Romans 7?
6. Was Paul talking to justified believers in 1Cor6:8?
7. Were the people Paul was talking to in 1Cor6:8 doing wrong and sinning?
8. Do wrongdoers go to heaven?
9. In Rom11:20-23, was Paul talking to Roman justified believers?
10. Could these people be cut off from Christ?

vooks:
Does the Holy Spirit reside in some people temporarily? Either He does or he doesn't

I trust English is your secondary language but you do understand tenses

Do you know what it means to rightly divide the Word?

OLD from NEW?

FLESH from SPIRIT?

Do you understand what the dispensation of the HOLY SPIRIT is?

Do you understand what distinguishes the dispensation of the Spirit from that of the Father and the Son; and the capacity it operated at the different times?

italo:
1. Were the people in Matt 7:22 justified?
2. Were members of the early Corinthian Church justified?
3. Did the members of the early Corinthian Church sin?
4. Was St. Paul justified when he wrote Romans 7?
5. Was St. Paul sinning when he wrote Romans 7?
6. Was Paul talking to justified believers in 1Cor6:8?
7. Were the people Paul was talking to in 1Cor6:8 doing wrong and sinning?
8. Do wrongdoers go to heaven?
9. In Rom11:20-23, was Paul talking to Roman justified believers?
10. Could these people be cut off from Christ?

Jokester... trust my guy, italo.
This 1-10 is a revised version after the first 1-3 botched attempt
Go over my post up there, your earlier 1-3 and the revised 1-10, was preemptively touched in it

shdemidemi:


The problem here is the 'what of'. What if there name was never written there?

The fact that He exhorts and reserves reward for overcomers means not all are overcomers. Otherwise the promises are hopelessly redundant. Think of Shdemidemi promising his daughter that he SHALL be her father.

Why don't we work with what Jesus said rather than assume that He might be saying something else on the flip side?

What is the POINT of that promise?

If God really knows the end from the beginning, would He really need to be blotting out names that He had written?

This is FATALISM. If God knows whom he will save, what is our job of preaching or even studying scriptures and praying? He knows whom He will save and doing that don't affect His choice.

The book of Revelation says only a remnant of 14400 will be saved, don't you think He knows them already if He can know their number?

Fatalism 101

Is God a reactive God, does He do plan B, do things catch him off guard to necessitate improvisation?

Moot point.
Why is Jesus promising rewards to overcomers out of the church and not the whole church?

shdemidemi:


The problem here is the 'what of'. What if there name was never written there?

Why don't we work with what Jesus said rather than assume that He might be saying something else on the flip side?

If God really knows the end from the beginning, would He really need to be blotting out names that He had written?

The book of Revelation says only a remnant of 14400 will be saved, don't you think He knows them already if He can know their number?

Is God a reactive God, does He do plan B, do things catch him off guard to necessitate improvisation?

No no no!! There is a flip side to every statement Jesus makes.

If not, we can say that just because the bible says those who believe have eternal life doesn't mean thosw who don't believe will not have it too.

If believers have eternal life, then unbelievers don't have eternal life. It is correct.

If overcomes will not have their names blotted out, those who don't overcome will have it blotted out.

Overcomers are those who keep their saving faith till the end.

An mind you, that God knows all things doesn't mean he is responsible for those things.

That God knows whether you will overcome or not doesn't mean he's the one that will make you not overcome.

The foreknowledge of God does not imply the imposition of His sovereignty.

ayoku777:


No no no!! There is a flip side to every statement Jesus makes.

If not, we can say that just because the bible says those who believe have eternal life doesn't mean thosw who don't believe will not have it too.

If believers have eternal life, then unbelievers don't have eternal life. It is correct.

If overcomes will not have their names blotted out, those who don't overcome will have it blotted out.

Overcomers are those who keep their saving faith till the end.

An mind you, that God knows all things doesn't mean he is responsible for those things.

That God knows whether you will overcome or not doesn't mean he's the one that will make you not overcome.

The foreknowledge of God does not imply the imposition of His sovereignty.

The bible did not leave us guessing or making assumptions with the issue of the unrighteous. The fate of an unbeliever is written in white and black for all to see. All I am saying is that we must stick to what was said and not think out what was not said- error might creep in.

Please address the rest of the questions

If God really knows the end from the beginning, would He really need to be blotting out names that He had written?

The book of Revelation says only a remnant of 14400 will be saved, don't you think He knows them already if He can know their number?

Is God a reactive God, does He do plan B, do things catch him off guard to necessitate improvisation?