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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? (4252 Views)
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Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by Nobody: 6:45pm On Jan 10, 2015 |
Note : I very honestly have NO evil motive for this article other then to dig deep with my brethren and friends and find the absolute truth, so please do not berate me for raising this dilemma on a public forum. Problem ; In most books of the bible it says that Yahweh himself will return to judge and save Mankind but in the New Testament it says Jesus will return and he will return to judge and save Mankind, so who is it, God or Jesus ? Please : I have replaced Lord or God with Yahweh wherever the Hebrew translation corresponds accordingly Let us start with the Old Testament examples ; Psalm 96:13 Let all creation rejoice before Yahweh, for he comes, he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world in righteousness and the peoples in his faithfulness. Isaiah 66:15 "See, Yahweh is coming with fire, and his chariots are like a whirlwind; he will bring down his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For with fire and with his sword Yahweh will execute judgment on all people, and many will be those slain by the Lord." Psalm 50:3 "…Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, Yahweh has shone forth. May our Yahweh come and not keep silence; Fire devours before Him, And it is very tempestuous around Him. He summons the heavens above, And the earth, to judge His people:…" - Zechariah 14:3-5 Then Yahweh will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. 4 On that day Yahweh's feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake[a] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then Yahweh my God will come, and all the holy ones with him. Isaiah 45:22 "Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other." It is clear from the scripture above that ; 1. Yahweh himself is coming. 2. Yahweh is coming with his holy ones 2. Yahweh will judge 3. Yahweh will destroy the wicked 4. Yahweh will save. New Testament Examples ; 2 Thessalonians 1:7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. Matthew 16:28 "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." John 5:22 In addition, the Father judges no one. Instead, he has given the Son absolute authority to judge, Revelation 1:7 "Look, he is coming with the clouds," and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him." So shall it be! Amen. Acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved." Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, It is clear from the scripture above that ; 1. Jesus himself is coming. 2. Jesus is coming with his Holy ones 2. Jesus will judge mankind 3. Jesus will destroy sinners 4. Jesus will save. In the light of these findings, I will like anyone who has an opinion be it for or against and irrespective of belief to help us solve this conundrum - Who is coming to save mankind - Who is coming to judge - Who is coming to destroy sinners - Who is coming with his holy ones 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by idumuose(m): 7:04pm On Jan 10, 2015 |
Frosbel, I do not mean to derail thread. I also want an explanation to this verse of scriptures in the book of Hebrews. "For it is appointed unto man once to die and after death judgement". People say once a man dies,judgement follows immediately.If he dies in christ he proceeds to heaven.If he dies without christ,he is on an expressway to hell.They use the richman and lazarus to draw their analogy. |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by Nobody: 7:05pm On Jan 10, 2015 |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by trustman: 7:14pm On Jan 10, 2015 |
Jesus Christ is Israel's Yahweh. With this I believe the two positions are reconciled. |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by Nobody: 7:16pm On Jan 10, 2015 |
trustman: So let me clarify, Jesus is the one and same person as Yahweh ? |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by Nobody: 8:27pm On Jan 10, 2015 |
idumuose: Please ask your question Here |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by BabaGnoni: 8:44pm On Jan 10, 2015 |
frosbel: only God, whose name is Yahweh or the unpronounceable word YHWH, can do an Agent Smith of Himself, like done in the Matrix and be God the Father, God the Son (i.e. Jesus Christ) and God the Holy Spirit simultaneously and/or concurrently - only God can be in two places at the same time. frosbel doesnt believe He can - only God can lay down His life and pick it up again. frosbel doesnt believe He can - only God can do the mind boggling miraculous virgin birth. frosbel doesnt believe He can too on this one Two Agent Smiths I solemnly urge you in the presence of God and Christ Jesus, who will someday judge the living and the dead when he appears to set up his Kingdom: - 2 Timothy 4:1 NLT And now the prize awaits me--the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give me on the day of his return. And the prize is not just for me but for all who eagerly look forward to his appearing - 2 Timothy 4:8 NLT Yes, and the Lord will deliver me from every evil attack and will bring me safely into his heavenly Kingdom. All glory to God forever and ever! Amen - 2 Timothy 4:18 NLT Remind everyone about these things, and command them in God's presence to stop fighting over words. Such arguments are useless, and they can ruin those who hear them. 2 Timothy 2:14 NLT Yes, each of us will give a personal account to God. - Romans 14:12 NLT the same shall give account to him that is ready to judge the living and the dead. - 1 Peter 4:5 Jubilee Bible 2000 |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by Nobody: 8:48pm On Jan 10, 2015 |
BabaGnoni: I suspect that you are a man with some degree of maturity so I know you will respect me for my points of view though you may disagree in which case it is your duty to convince with arguments that are sound, logical and reasonable. However if the 'fundamentalist' in you is set to defensive mode , I kindly request you keep out of this discussion. Note : Before you jump to conclusions, my point of view is contrary to this article, this is just a topic for discourse between mature, emotionally stable and reasonable fellows. |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by CANTICLES: 9:00pm On Jan 10, 2015 |
What a nice topic Lets turn to the scriptures , Act 17:31 explains " God ( Yahweh).. Has set a day in which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness through a man he has appointed (Jesus) " Act 17:30,31 1 Like |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by BabaGnoni: 9:00pm On Jan 10, 2015 |
frosbel:frosbel dont get emotional with this. Please dont try to emasculate me with your emotionalisms The preemptives are out of experience that it will lead to your well known confessed viewpoints I anticipate it will soon lead that which is why I appended "frosbel doesnt believe He can" Have you got a problem with "frosbel doesnt believe He can"? If you state yes, then I will retract, edit my post, stop and never use the phrase again I am not fighting you frosbel, just stated facts about you, besides 2 Timothy 2:14 is very instructive about fighting |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by Nobody: 9:02pm On Jan 10, 2015 |
BabaGnoni: I like the way you wriggled out of the comment I made on your attempt to derail this thread , and then quickly threw the 'emotional' card at me. Be rest assured I am not moved by emotion , only facts. Besides , you are quoting a book that was not written by Paul ( We will come to that on another day ) - . |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by Nobody: 9:08pm On Jan 10, 2015 |
CANTICLES: Good one CANTICLES , level headed as always. Do you think there is (or it is necessary for) a prophecy for this method of salvation/judgement in the old testament ? Thanks. |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by BabaGnoni: 9:11pm On Jan 10, 2015 |
frosbel: As earlier said I only preemptively stated facts The preemptives are out of experience that it will lead to your well known confessed viewpoints I anticipated it will soon lead to them which is why I appended "frosbel doesnt believe He can" Again, have you got a problem with "frosbel doesnt believe He can"? If you state yes, then I will retract, edit my post, stop and never use the phrase again. I too dont do emotions too. Dont set out to derail threads. Dont do rants. Prefer cool as a cucumber though Meanwhile, in my post before the penultimate one, you definitely saw and read without difficulties in the 7 provided verses, that it is God the Son, who is Jesus Christ, who will return, come to judge and save mankind Welcome to the world of ghostwriting. Ghostwriting since A.D. 67 - . |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by Nobody: 9:29pm On Jan 10, 2015 |
BabaGnoni: Ghost Writing ? Not sure what you are trying to insinuate, but snide remarks apart ; If Jesus is appointed by God to judge how do we reconcile this position to - John 8:15 , Hebrews 13:4 and Revelation 20:11,12. Before you rush to play another game of words, in almost all cases, 'judge' in the NT is the Greek word κρίνω ( pronounced krinó and strongs - 2919 ) which actually means judge as in judge with the ability to make verdicts / |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by leke12(m): 9:40pm On Jan 10, 2015 |
Sorry to disappoint you! Nobody is coming to judge the world. When you die, that's d day of ur judgment. You either go to heaven or hell. You knw pple who have near death experience always see micheal jackson, they neva see Adolf hitler or idi Amin.Lol! All these story about mount olive or chariots or any are such are pigments of man imagination. The jews did a great work to cook up those stories. Futhermore, yahweh is d name of d god worshiped by abraham and his clan before he left his family and imagine why will yahweh use chariot or horse when we have fighter jets and armoured cars for war. Using chariot is becos that's was d highest tech they use for war, so they think God wil come and use a more beta one. Lol 1 Like |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by BabaGnoni: 9:51pm On Jan 10, 2015 |
frosbel:Never mind frosbel, as ignorance is bliss. Besides, I've walked in your shoes which is why I can relate with you and understand you very well too If not sure, dont worry, it will come to you later if not sooner frosbel:Pot calling kettle black You rushed dishing out scriptures without been explicit about what you want reconciling Snide remarks apart, dont you think that's a task better left for mind readers or anyone with a crystal ball / I solemnly urge you in the presence of God and Christ Jesus, who will someday judge the living and the dead when he appears to set up his Kingdom: - 2 Timothy 4:1 NLT Yes, each of us will give a personal account to God. - Romans 14:12 NLT the same shall give account to him that is ready to judge the living and the dead. - 1 Peter 4:5 Jubilee Bible 2000 I think, I've figured out what the stumbling block is (i.e. what you're finding hard to swallow and stomach). This is why I've reproduced the 3 verses above. The idea you can't get your head around is God, then God becoming God the Father, God the Son and even God the Holy Spirit |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by honourhim: 10:19pm On Jan 10, 2015 |
Frosbel if only you can keep the thread at this level of rubbing minds with brethren then thats very ok. Keep it up if you can. |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by Emusan(m): 11:04pm On Jan 10, 2015 |
frosbel: I want to comment because of your first statement, so if truly you want to find the truth then you have only one option to choose from my conclusion. Firstly, you got it wrong for calling it A PROBLEM it's not a problem but how Yahweh actually operates. Secondly, thank God that you open this thread yourself and you're the very one who believe Jesus is not God but this thread should open your eyes to see perfect collaboration between Yahweh and the man Jesus Christ. Thirdly, this would've posed a lot of problem for the standard of Biblical teaching if Jesus is not YAHWEH IN THE FLESH. Now from the Old Testament books you quoted stating that Yahweh is coming to judge people I think the best question to ask here is how will Yahweh carry out this action? Since both statement agree that Yahweh will COME HIMSELF then the next question to ask is Will Yahweh come absolutely as God (when Universe itself can not contain Him talk less of Earth) or in what actual form will He come? Very importantly the testimony we have in the inspired word of God who can not lie is that THE MAN JESUS is Yahweh in the FLESH to judge people which means Yahweh didn't come in His totality of His majesty as God but simply took on HUMAN FLESH to fulfil His promise that's why Jesus Christ Himself can say "22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him." John 5:22-23 Lastly, had it been you pay close attention to what you read in the Bible you would've discovered that Yahweh spoke about coming in HUMAN FLESH. According you I will use Yahweh where LORD appeared "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the YAHWEH, make straight in the desert a highway for our God(Yahweh)." Isa 40:3 "Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me(Yahweh): and the YAHWEH, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the YAHWEH of hosts. Mal 3:1 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Isa 9:6 That's why the coming of Yahweh in the FLESH must not be through a normal sexual intercourse it must be a supernatural process (Miracle) but unfortunately you've denied the Virgin Birth. Conclusion, Apostle Paul and the rest of the NT writer provided parallel account of Jesus being Yahweh in the flesh in many ways i.e Yahweh and Jesus as the Judge of people, Yahweh and Jesus as the ONLY KING who rules forever, Yahweh and Jesus as the only exalted Being, Yahweh and Jesus as the ONLY Saviour e.t.c The two options for you to choose now, it's either you embrace the parallel account of these people (including Paul whom you believe in his writing) who put Jesus Christ in the position of Yahweh in the Flesh or you discard the whole NT and you know what happen if you do that. Shalom! 6 Likes |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by alotofgrace(m): 1:07am On Jan 11, 2015 |
ARE THEY REALLY DIFFERENT? |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by bingbagbo(m): 9:41am On Jan 11, 2015 |
I WANT TO ASK YOU OP, DOES YAHWEH HAVE BLOOD?? WELL THEN SEE, Acts 20:28 " Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock that the Holy Spirit has appointed you to as overseers, to shepherd the church of God, which He purchased with His own blood." 1 Like |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by dorox(m): 10:32am On Jan 11, 2015 |
bingbagbo: The revised standard version rendered the last part as "which he purchased with the blood of his own son", and the footnote of many other translations such as the New International Version indicated that it can be translated this way even though they used the one you quoted. |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by Nobody: 11:07am On Jan 11, 2015 |
CANTICLES:guy na wa for u o, why did u post my mind.. The truth sets on these,, God will judge the world throught Jesus Christ the righteous Judge because He ha s appointed Jesus to judge the whole world. PERIOD |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by Emusan(m): 12:15pm On Jan 11, 2015 |
ProphetUdeme: You and the guy you quoted didn't understand the OP, what the Op is simply saying is that Yahweh spoke many times in the OT that Yahweh will come by HIMSELF to judge His people but everything change in the NT that it's Jesus who will do the Judge. How come? Did Yahweh change His mind? Or, Has Yahweh truly come? Any idea? 4 Likes |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by Image123(m): 12:40pm On Jan 11, 2015 |
Trinity. 2+2=4 Two plus Two equals Four. This is a great mystery. |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by Nobody: 1:00pm On Jan 11, 2015 |
Emusan:(YAHWEH THE LORD consist of God the Father, Jesus and Holy Ghost) wen YHWH the Father foretold in the old testament about His future judgement on the world He already knew that He will Judge the World thru His Son Jesus who is also Yahweh(God) the Son. He didnt let the ancient people to know how He will judge the world and now the new testament reveals how the judgement will be like and that it will be thru Jesus who is also Yahweh.. The Father hath given all things into His (Jesus) hands and the Father Judgeth no man but has comitted all judgement to the Son. Jesus represents Yahweh God, so for God not to judge the world does not means that He changed His mind no, Jesus is now the all and all. Hope u understand my points? 2 Likes |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by Nobody: 1:09pm On Jan 11, 2015 |
ProphetUdeme:He understands your point quite alright. The problem is the Op who doesn't agree Jesus is God the Son like you stated and canticles who is a JW. 2 Likes |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by Nobody: 1:30pm On Jan 11, 2015 |
Bidam:ya brother thanks i already knew their beliefs which contradicts wit ours and their perception towards the trinity |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by CANTICLES: 2:19pm On Jan 11, 2015 |
frosbel: My Brother, according to your original post .... Its clear the hebrew scriptures said Yahweh will judge the world !! But since Act 17:31 has explained that Yahweh will be the judge , but he will do it through a man he has appointed , whom is Christ . ..... I PERCEIVE THIS IN THE HEBREW SCRIPTURES , Yahweh prophesied at Isaiah 11:1 " and there must go forth a twig out of the stump of Jesse; .......... And Upon him the spirit of Yahweh must settle down , and he Will Not Judge by any mere appearance to his eyes , and with righteousness he must judge the lowly ones of the earth " - Isa 11: 1-5 |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by BabaGnoni: 2:39pm On Jan 11, 2015 |
CANTICLES:So without flowery language but in layman's terms what is the verdict? Who is returning to judge and save mankind? Is it God or Jesus? |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by CANTICLES: 2:53pm On Jan 11, 2015 |
BabaGnoni: Act 17:31 reveal that Jehovah God Almighty, the God and Father Christ is d person who plans to judge mankind . His majesty has appointed Jesus Christ his son to overseer the whole work of judgement . So Jesus will be the one to carry out the WILL OF HIS FATHER After this, Jesus Christ wil report back to His Almighty God And Father "NEXT, he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power" 1 cor 15:24 1 Like |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by CANTICLES: 2:53pm On Jan 11, 2015 |
BabaGnoni: Act 17:31 reveal that Jehovah God Almighty, the God and Father of Christ is d person who plans to judge mankind . His majesty has appointed Jesus Christ his son to overseer the whole work of judgement . So Jesus will be the one to carry out the WILL OF HIS FATHER After this, Jesus Christ wil report back to His Almighty God And Father "NEXT, he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power" 1 cor 15:24 2 Likes |
Re: Who Will Return To Judge And Save Mankind , Is It GOD Or Is It JESUS ? by BabaGnoni: 6:01pm On Jan 11, 2015 |
CANTICLES:As simple as that? Thank you |
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