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Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by paxonel(m): 6:46am On Jan 11, 2015 |
vooks:we all know that there is time for everything. consequently, there was time before resurrection (between the birth of Christ and his resurrection, popularly known as the days of John the Baptist where the entering of Christianity suffereth violence I.e multitude of disciples or believers struggling to enter the time of Christianity ).this period falls within the time of old testament known as BC, because Christ was not yet crucified, even though it was recorded in the new testament. But no justification at this period. that means, believers may carry out miracles during this time, But they were yet to be justified because Christ has not yet died. And there was time after resurrection ( which is the time or era we are now also known as the time of Christianity or AD, which is the kingdom of God ) this is where there is justification. the event of pentecost in the book of act,was the beginning of Christianity ( the justified people ). act1:15 says they were about 120 people, I didn't write it. the name Christianity was gotten at Antioch, But Christianity has started long before then. name does not matter, name is only for identification, what matter is that we were justified at crufixion long before Antioch |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by Hiswordxray(m): 6:50am On Jan 11, 2015 |
5solas:Yes but you can't have faith without works. And if there is no works it shows there is no faith. |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 6:51am On Jan 11, 2015 |
Hiswordxray: Bro, you don't have a problem neither do I, don't adopt such language, it should be outlandish where God is been discussed. Faith is not generic, it can mean different things. I gave you a part where Jesus said 'ye of little faith', the Greek word used the is 'OLIGOPISTIS' The other 'faith' as used in 'the just shall live by faith' is 'PISTIS' and this can also be used in different ways. E.g you here people ask 'of what faith are you', that is way different from where it is used as 'trust' or 'hope'. |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 6:55am On Jan 11, 2015 |
Am allergic to BS 1. Did Paul teach 7 dispensations? Yes/no 2. Did anybody before John Darby teach 7 dispensations? A clear scripture showing how you will perish and end up in hell is rejected because of 1. The audience of the epistle to Hebr 2. The author of Hebrews 3. Dispensationalism garbage You are an old man. Old man listen up, start a thread on Dispensationalism and I gladly tear it apart and like Joagbaje, you will crawl back to the same hole you came from The OP is least interested in Dispensationalism and that's why out of respect for his/her request,am solely focused on the subject at hand; SINNING AFTER JUSTIFICATION AND ITS CONSEQUNCES You on the other hand are busy dancing like the ground under you is on fire,hopping from one irrelevance to the other all to defend your garbage. How sad shdemidemi: |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 6:58am On Jan 11, 2015 |
Hiswordxray: This thing seem so simple yet so hard to comprehend or accept. New International Version And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. New Living Translation And since it is through God's kindness, then it is not by their good works. For in that case, God's grace would not be what it really is--free and undeserved. English Standard Version But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace. New American Standard Bible But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. King James Bible And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Can't you see these two Apostles were coming from two different view points? One from Judaism/legalism/law/tradition and then Christ and one purely Christ and nothing else? Can't we just move from one level to a higher ground? Hebrews 6 1 Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,[a] and of faith in God, 1 Like |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 6:59am On Jan 11, 2015 |
You haven't answered me. Let me rephrase Peter believed in Jesus BEFORE His death and persisted after. At what exact point was he justified? At the death or resurrection of Jesus or at Pentecost? paxonel: |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 7:00am On Jan 11, 2015 |
vooks: Boy, get on with it, can't wait to see you tear scripture apart. Make a mention, I will be there. |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 7:04am On Jan 11, 2015 |
vooks: The condition for Pater's salvation was on the premise that 'Jesus is indeed the son of God' plus repentance. That is not the same for me today, I must believe in my heart that He died, He was buried and He rose to be saved. |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 7:05am On Jan 11, 2015 |
It's your junk. Teach the world and ask the mod to shut me out else you won't get past your first line of garbage Of course you are a coward,a weeping coward. Can I get you some more kleenex? shdemidemi: |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 7:06am On Jan 11, 2015 |
Were the disciples before Jesus' death justified? shdemidemi: |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 7:08am On Jan 11, 2015 |
vooks: Go ahead if you so desire...are you bitter that you're not having your way, awww Make that mention boy let's look in to scripture. |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 7:11am On Jan 11, 2015 |
I can't start a thread to disprove what you believe because I don't even know what you do believe seeing there are several shades of Dispensationalism. That's Logic 101 but puny brains overheat over such stuff shdemidemi: |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by paxonel(m): 7:19am On Jan 11, 2015 |
BabaGnoni:ahahahaahaaa, bros ok how many times did christian mentioned in the bible? name does not matter, what matter is that, there is Christianity now. Jesus founded Christianity for men, not for himself, christians are men. all the parables of Jesus where geared at Christianity, anytime Jesus mentioned the kingdom of God in his parables, just know that he was talking about the Christianity he was going to establish. Christianity is the church, Jesus says i will build my church. the tag Christianity started at Antioch, But in the real sense, the religion has started long before Antioch at crucifixion. like i said, the name Christian doesn't matter, what matter is, we had a religion long before antioch, name is only adopted for identification before Antioch the apostles were called apostles or disciples, they were 12 of them, the other believers where known as disciples. the name christians, was gotten because of their good works, But they were justified by grace at crucifixion not by works. so, if we are to adopt the name christians, we should have this at the back of our mind |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 7:23am On Jan 11, 2015 |
vooks: Justification by faith as we have it in the epistles of Paul isn't what they had before the passion of Christ. They were justified to be a part of the kingdom Jesus came to earth to establish with the nation of Israel. But as a nation, israel denied its king.. John 1:11 New International Version He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. The speaker for the disciples asked Christ just before ascension- Acts 1:6 New International Version Then they gathered around him and asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?" To Peter, it was all about the kingdom and the disciples will definitely be a part of the Kingdom of God. To Apostle Paul it was not about 'Israel' getting restored as a kingdom where Jesus rules, it is now about the world getting saved through justification to be a part of the God's Kingdom. Not just for Israel anymore but for anyone who believe. |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by paxonel(m): 7:25am On Jan 11, 2015 |
vooks:at the resurrection of Jesus, that means, if Jesus had not resurrected he wouldn't have been justified |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 7:28am On Jan 11, 2015 |
vooks: I smell a coward behind this post...are you there vooksy? |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 7:31am On Jan 11, 2015 |
You are full of unintelligible glib. Were they justified before the death of Jesus Christ? If not, at what point were they justified shdemidemi: |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by Nobody: 7:34am On Jan 11, 2015 |
shdemidemi:i can't wait to follow that thread.Oya vooks over to you |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 7:38am On Jan 11, 2015 |
Thank you. After Resurrection, did Jesus appear to unbelievers? That is barring Paul paxonel: |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 7:38am On Jan 11, 2015 |
vooks: Lol..Guess you thought you had a checkmate question you can dwell on. Sorry to burst your bubbles. I know objectivity is not your forte neither is comprehension, I advice you take time to read the post again it might just resonate if you revise long enough. |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 7:41am On Jan 11, 2015 |
Bidam my broda, There is so much garbage there and the onus is on its adherents to present their version and we examine it. If it is so scriptural, do they want vooks to perish or remain in the dark? Be very wary of 'new' doctrines Bidam: |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 7:45am On Jan 11, 2015 |
Lol is for your teenage kids you never had 1. Were believers before resurrection justified? 2. If not, at what point were they justified? Paxonel has so eloquently and wisely answered. That's a man of God shdemidemi: |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 7:48am On Jan 11, 2015 |
vooks: Pauline doctrine is nothing new my friend, it has been there since Paul got saved. Exegetical study of scriptures shouldn't be frowned at either. you might just end up like Frosbel after that thread because you will be forced to make a choice between The Bible and Vooks' ' |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 7:51am On Jan 11, 2015 |
vooks: Stop asking answered questions my dear friend, you are not deranged that I think I am sure of. |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 7:54am On Jan 11, 2015 |
There was a man who used to beg his friends to hold him tightly every time he lost his cool lest he he beats up somebody. One day he was offended and he begged them and they did. But they released him and he was beaten up so bad. Bring it on negro, make my day. Trust me if I was to lose my faith, it would not be over harebrained half-misunderstood garbage shdemidemi: |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 8:03am On Jan 11, 2015 |
vooks: This is your best part of the discourse, isn't it? Exchanging those lines with you was my way of letting you spit out what you have been willing to do all along. Enough of all those childishness, get back to God's business- not vooks business so no need to get personal with it. No competition, no imposition of ideas, share your understanding while I share mine, we just might come out better christians. That is if you agree we both don't know it all. |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by Nobody: 8:06am On Jan 11, 2015 |
vooks:Ok vooks, back to the discuss concerning the heb verse you harangue shdemidemi with. I think it was a warning against apostasy, the hebrew audience were thinking of abandoning their faith in Jesus and lapsing back into Judaism...fastfoward to modern day and you will notice folks who are tired of church becoming atheist. This excerpt from an article i am reading now might provoke some thoughts and contribute to the discuss. The proper application of this passage requires review of the Jewish situation. The lesson is simple: If the believing Hebrews who had received gospel blessings and privileges fell away to Judaism, their practical recovery from judgment was impossible due to the seriousness and timing of their crime. The salvation of 6:9 is practical salvation from judgment (Compare Ac 2:40). This solution fits the overall message of Christ and the apostles to the Jews. This solution fits the overall context of Paul's persuasion against apostasy. This solution fits the immediate context of Paul's rebuke for slothfulness. This solution places a most excellent and severe warning land exhortation here. This solution fits Paul's fear of their departing from God (Heb 3:12) and fall (Heb 4:11). This solution fits Hebrews' wording (Heb 2:1-3; 4:1,11; 10:26-31,38-39; 12:15-17,25-29). This solution satisfies the urgency and finality of "nigh unto cursing" (Heb 6:. The Hebrews were under far greater gospel duty than the Gentiles at this time. When the Jews rejected Jesus Christ, Paul left them (Acts 18:6; 13:46; 28:28). But he was sure of renewing Gentile apostates again to repentance (Gal 4:19). The blinding of elect Jews is a great mystery of the gospel (Romans 11:25-28). The presence or lack of growth and fruit shows God's position to the ground (Heb 6:7-. Ground and men are similar - fruit evidences God's blessing and thorns His curse. Ground that brings forth thorns is rejected, nigh unto cursing, and to be burned. God rejects those that reject Him (II Kgs 17:20; Jer 7:29; Hos 4:6; Heb 12:17). God curses (swares against) His enemies (Ge 4:11-22; Deut 11:26-28; Heb 3:11,18). God will burn plants without fruit (Mat 3:10; 7:19; Jn 15:6; Heb 10:27; 12:29). Paul had similarly, though not identically, warned the Gentiles (I Cor 16:22). God burned up the Hebrew nation for rejecting Christ (Malachi 4:1; Matt 22:7) God will burn up the Gentiles that do not obey Christ's gospel (II Thess 1:7-10). |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 8:13am On Jan 11, 2015 |
The man does not see the disparity between the Hebrews and Christians, he thinks they are one and the same. Hence, what applies to a Jew (Hebrew) who mix Jesus with Judaism is applicable to a Christian who 'back slide'. What you posted might just fly over his head. |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by BabaGnoni: 9:00am On Jan 11, 2015 |
Bro... I dey kampe! Following your tail lights!! I blew my horn on one or two of your posts, but you didnt do same back, until now on this my post about Adam Right. Hmm. Sharp guy, I can see where you are coming at me from on this: That Adam actually believed the word of God but wilfully (i.e. intentionally and determinedly) went against it That Adam's faith in the word of God that "death shall surely happen" was there, intact. That Adam was not deceived but rather it was Eve who was deceived and who lost the faith I see a stalemate in this as opposed to you checkmating, if I didn't, I would have thrown in a towel Depending on your next response and whether you want to play a semantic move, you might even get checkmated |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 9:09am On Jan 11, 2015 |
BabaGnoni: Thank God bro I certainly will not ignore your posts if addressed to to me with a conscious intent to do so. I didn't see them, I read your post even when it isn't addressed to me and they are often worth a read, if you don't mind you can post them again. As for Adam, I think the right word is 'disobedience' and not lack of faith. I don't think that is really worth arguing about. |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 9:14am On Jan 11, 2015 |
I have never claimed to know all but I sure can sniff garbage from miles off. You got problem with that? Aks God who made me thus shdemidemi: |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 9:21am On Jan 11, 2015 |
vooks: Don't shove your nauseating attributes to God, rather deal with it with His Word. Get objective, make your point without expecting it to be a rule I must accept or share. Beyond that, make scripture the judge of what is garbage and what isn't.. |
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