PastorAIO:


Not unless I had the urge to protect my society. There is nothing to consider in human behaviour outside of our fundamental urges. 'Society' does not decide to ostracise certain people unless driven by urges to do so. Even Society can be seen as a product of a confluence of human urges. It is also possible for the majority of members of a society to experience urges against the society. That is what causes revolutions and anarchy. It's all part of the natural processes of history.

I'm not referring to a society as in a civilized populace but a group of similar individuals who band together because they are social creatures..
In short, I'm referring to a basal application of the term...

The tendency to value our kind is just another basic urge.

Exactly and it somewhat makes us evict any individual that poses a danger to us...

Of course we can have conflicting urges and this is what causes a) internal conflicts, and b) social and global conflicts.

Let's keep it concise here...I agree,but this topic has taken a course on its own already..

I can't figure out where you're going with this. Some people are drawn to their environment. Other people are more drawn to their inner world. Most people are somewhere inbetween. If you can't detach from the environment you'd be unable to day dream, you'd be unable to think abstractly, you'd be unable to form scientific theories, you'd be like an animal that can not step out of itself and consider it's life from an abstract perspective. In other words, you'd be sub-human. I don't think Religion is the cause of this. I think just being human is the reason for this.

I didn't claim religion is a cause of anything....I said,don't you agree that human curiosity that fuels religion,drives people into a state of dissociation?

PastorAIO:


Bring it on!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMb00lz-IfE

I may not be able to continue on our above discussion because of technical difficulties...would continue probably later.
And the video below is called "This is not random" by Veritasium

johnydon22:

Now do you accept that god doesnt know what you will do before you do it?

wordcat.
What is the purpose of freewill?

malvisguy212:
you are canal minded man, you can't explained the nature of God.

God knows that adam and eve will disobeyed Him, yet he did not interfere in there decision,bible say after they ate the fruit, they started hiding from God.

So human beings on earth can hide from your own God? Did they dig an underground bunker like Saddam or were they crouching behind an iroko tree?

malvisguy212:
wordcat.
What is the purpose of freewill?

Aren't u the one that suppose to tell us the purpose of freewill?

Ok, let me see if I can try......

By February 14th, we will all go out and vote for any candidate of our choice, the Federal Govt of Nigeria will not punish me if I vote Buhari just as I will face no punishment if I vote Jonathan, and I can even decide no to vote at all and no body will punish me for that.

This is a simply definition of free will; the ability to choose without facing any consequences for your choice.

davien:

I may not be able to continue on our above discussion because of technical difficulties...would continue probably later.

That's cool. I've already derived a fair bit of satisfaction from the exchange. I think if we were to push it further we would be taking it away from the initial topic of this thread. Unless you want to start a new thread.

timonski:
such intellect could predict the path/end of thoughtless processes. Predicting the actions of intelligent beings which can be influenced by other intelligent is open for further discussion.

PastorAIO:

I get you. Because we have free will, our decisions cannot be factored into the prognosis. hmmm.. Nice answer.

Wait o!!! Where does omnipotence fit into all of this?

Omnipotence to do what?

timonski:
Omnipotence to do what?

Does god not have a will? Omnipotence to do anything that he wills.

malvisguy212:
the bible never contradicts it's self.

Statement A.
Exodus 20 : 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Statement B.
Ezekiel 18 : 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

That sir, is a perfect example of contradiction among many other contradictions in the Bible. How do you read the Bible, backwards?

wordcat:


Aren't u the one that suppose to tell us the purpose of freewill?

Ok, let me see if I can try......

By February 14th, we will all go out and vote for any candidate of our choice, the Federal Govt of Nigeria will not punish me if I vote Buhari just as I will face no punishment if I vote Jonathan, and I can even decide no to vote at all and no body will punish me for that.

This is a simply definition of free will; the ability to choose without facing any consequences for your choice.

very good wordcat.
Freewill exist?

The president will not interfere in your decision to vote,even when he knows that you will vote against him, God will not intervene in your decision to rebel against him.

Another illustration for freewill is the Lazarus and the rich man, the rich man request to go and warn his brothers for the danger of not worshipping God, but Abraham say to him"let them listen to the prophet". They have the Freewill to accept the prophet word or reject.

LucemFerre:


Statement A.
Exodus 20 : 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Statement B.
Ezekiel 18 : 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

That sir, is a perfect example of contradiction among many other contradictions in the Bible. How do you read the Bible, backwards?

first, read the content of that chapter.
Exedus was talking about the universal sin,while the book of ezekiel was talking about individual sin, infacte ezekiel make it clear that the soul that sinneth it shall die.

malvisguy212:
very good wordcat.
Freewill exist?

The president will not interfere in your decision to vote,even when he knows that you will vote against him, God will not intervene in your decision to rebel against him.

Another illustration for freewill is the Lazarus and the rich man, the rich man request to go and warn his brothers for the danger of not worshipping God, but Abraham say to him"let them listen to the prophet". They have the Freewill to accept the prophet word or reject.

Lazy Christians! Can't u think for once?
Where did I stated that the president will know who I'll vote for?
Why do u lazy Christian like twisting issue like babies?

Weah96:


So human beings on earth can hide from your own God? Did they dig an underground bunker like Saddam or were they crouching behind an iroko tree?

hey friend, if You want to talk about religion you talk but acts mature,we are all here to learn from each other. Thank you.

wordcat:


Lazy Christians! Can't u think for once?
Where did I stated that the president will know who I'll vote for?
Why do u lazy Christian like twisting issue like babies?

I understand your coment. I add mine.

PastorAIO:


What time did Jesus die?

that depends on whose account you read.....

malvisguy212:
hey friend, if You want to talk about religion you talk but acts mature,we are all here to learn from each other. Thank you.

It's difficult to address anything religious with seriousness or maturity, for that matter. Were you not the person who told me that a virgin once gave birth to a human boy child without coming into contact with human s.emen or any animal s.emen for that matter?

Were you not the person who told me that a man was once dancing on the whole ocean, that a snake can speak a man's native language to him, and that a dead Jewish man raised himself up from the soil after 3 days of laying dead?

Maturity is a relative term. In your head, it means I should pretend to be a f.ool.

Weah96:


It's difficult to address anything religious with seriousness or maturity, for that matter. Were you not the person who told me that a virgin once gave birth to a human boy child without coming into contact with human s.emen or any animal s.emen for that matter?

Were you not the person who told me that a man was once dancing on the whole ocean, that a snake can speak a man's native language to him, and that a dead Jewish man raised himself up from the soil after 3 days of laying dead?

Maturity is a relative term. In your head, it means I should pretend to be a f.ool.

I was hoping you will adjust, but I was wrong.
Thanks but no thank from where you learn this moral from.

malvisguy212:
first, read the content of that chapter.
Exedus was talking about the universal sin,while the book of ezekiel was talking about individual sin, infacte ezekiel make it clear that the soul that sinneth it shall die.

Hehe... Exodus was talking about UNIVERSAL SIN, but in the book of Ezekiel the Bible was talking about INDIVIDUAL SIN. Seriously?
Lol... Smfh... So, INDIVIDUALS are not part of the universe? Do you even read what you write? I have never come across any comment you made that isn't inconsistent... Your answers are either off or circular

Let me advice you, It's perfectly okay to be wrong or not to know. Being wrong has nothing to do with your level of intelligence. Take everyday as a learning process not a war that you must win. You can't know everything and as a matter of fact, you don't have to. Really, it's an advice, from my heart. I see you battling with everybody and you are terribly and pathetically inequipped. Take example from how you answered my question for goodness sake. (No offence)

"He must be very ignorant for he answers every question he is asked." - Voltaire

malvisguy212:
infacte ezekiel make it clear that the soul that sinneth it shall die.

Of course he did, I quoted it, remember? But that wasn't even part of the points I was trying to make.

malvisguy212:
very good wordcat.
Freewill exist?

The president will not interfere in your decision to vote,even when he knows that you will vote against him, God will not intervene in your decision to rebel against him.

Another illustration for freewill is the Lazarus and the rich man, the rich man request to go and warn his brothers for the danger of not worshipping God, but Abraham say to him"let them listen to the prophet". They have the Freewill to accept the prophet word or reject.

No the president dont knw if you will vote for him or not

LucemFerre:


Hehe... Exodus was talking about UNIVERSAL SIN, but in the book of Ezekiel the Bible was talking about INDIVIDUAL SIN. Seriously?
Lol... Smfh... So, INDIVIDUALS are not part of the universe? Do you even read what you write? I have never come across any comment you made that isn't inconsistent... Your answers are either off or circular

Let me advice you, It's perfectly okay to be wrong or not to know. Being wrong has nothing to do with your level of intelligence. Take everyday as a learning process not a war that you must win. You can't know everything and as a matter of fact, you don't have to. Really, it's an advice, from my heart. I see you battling with everybody and you are terribly and pathetically inequipped. Take example from how you answered my question for goodness sake. (No offence)

"He must be very ignorant for he answers every question he is asked." - Voltaire


Of course he did, I quoted it, remember? But that wasn't even part of the points I was trying to make.

I think the passages you quoted can be understood by looking at what God does in the Bible.

When parents do wrong or experience
punishment on earth, their children
share the ill effects - if a parent is put in
jail, their children are adversely. affected;
if a parent is abusive or negligent, their
children suffer. This sort of thing occurs
in many places in the Bible. For. instance, Achan and his family died as a result of his disobeying God ( Joshua 7). However, while children often shared the earthly punishment of their parents, they would not be punished for their parents' sins in the afterlife. Ezekiel 18 makes it clear that the real guilt belongs to the person who sinned, not their family. Deuteronomy 24:16 is an application of this principle to human-administered justice: while God decreed that some sins merited the death penalty, humans were not to apply the penalty to anyone other than the guilty party. If, as in the case of Achan, a family or nation was to be corporately punished, only God had the authority to decide that corporate punishment was merited.

johnydon22:

No the president dont knw if you will vote for him or not

I don tire for dat guy, I must confess.

davien:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMb00lz-IfE

I may not be able to continue on our above discussion because of technical difficulties...would continue probably later.
And the video below is called "This is not random" by Veritasium

Awesome video. Thanks for sharing.

@PastorAIO do you think 'God' can ever be defined objectively? Happy New Year btw. Abeg, no quit NL despite the mockery the frontpage and most sections have become.

malvisguy212:
first, read the content of that chapter.
Exedus was talking about the universal sin,while the book of ezekiel was talking about individual sin, infacte ezekiel make it clear that the soul that sinneth it shall die.

Pls which one is universal sin and which one is individual sin?

Is universal sin committed by the universe? And individual sin committed by humans?

Explain biko

frank317:


Pls which one is universal sin and which one is individual sin?

Is universal sin committed by the universe? And individual sin committed by humans?

Explain biko

Romans 5:12
New International Version
Therefore, just as sin entered the world
through one man, and death through
sin, and in this way death came to all
people, because all sinned.

And bible also say"the soul that sinned it shall die"

malvisguy212:
Romans 5:12
New International Version
Therefore, just as sin entered the world
through one man, and death through
sin, and in this way death came to all
people, because all sinned.

And bible also say"the soul that sinned it shall die"

Oga... Differentiate between universal sin and personal sin...

davien:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMb00lz-IfE

I may not be able to continue on our above discussion because of technical difficulties...would continue probably later.
And the video below is called "This is not random" by Veritasium

These guys are confused. I don't even know where to start with them.

Let me try.

1:12 Fundamentally they seem to not know what information is. They get is confused with Order and Meaning. Information is what makes an Impression, What Influences, what Marks something else.

I know the sky is blue because Information in the form of lightwaves passes from the sky and makes an impression on my optical nerves.

I can take a stamp and make a mark on a piece of plasticene and I have just informed the plasticene. In other words I have just imparted Form to the plasticene.

The information can be of Order, or it can be of chaos. When I see white noise on the tv screen I'm well informed that it is white noise. I don't need to see order to know that.

3:23
Not only do they confuse Order, and Meaning with Information but they seem to not know what a code is. If write out information in a code and then compress the code into a smaller code I don't change the amount of information in the code. I've just found a more succinct way of encoding the information which itself totally stays the same.
How they jump from misunderstanding what a code is to saying that 'Randomness is Pure information' would make even a seasoned Nairalander who has seen all kinds of idiotic reasoning, like myself, throw up his breakfast. also the expression on the dudes face when he says , 'you wanna know how much information something has you have to know how random it is' like he is saying something deep. He reminds me of one of those evangelical pastors. It seems that they save that 'deep' facial expression for when they are about to say something particularly inane.

7:16
Laplace makes the conditional statement that if you knew the position and velocity of every thing then you could predict everything.

Quantum uncertainty says it is impossible to know the position and velocity. That doesn't disprove Laplace. It merely says that the conditions that Laplace requires are not possible.

malvisguy212:
I believe you are tired, that why you dints read my coment well.

I never said eve rebels against God, I say "satan urged rebellions against God".

God never disown his creation,God only punished them the way a father will punish his son if they did wrong.

This is one of the fundamental problems with religion.Man constantly tries to mirror himself as god. You cannot liken an omnipotent being to a man (father) It is pure delusion and one of the reasons people lack belief in religion.

malvisguy212:
science will support there claimed if it true, there are many scientific claimed the bible made that science did not discover until 100years later, this is things ONLY GOD COULD HAVE KNOWN read here https://www.nairaland.com/1305164/things-only-god-could-known

If this religious people present there case the way bible present it own, everyone would have known the truth.

malvisguy212 please quit this thread you are making a fool of yourself with your delusional claims. Or at least try approaching the questions from a more pragmatic and objective perspective.

davien:
Can one have definitive proof of "god" and still be free to reject "god"? (think critically)

I always know you know God exist but you are angry with him for some reason.
Please, just tell me why you are angry with God? I want to know.

plaetton:

liar.
From which bible are you reading from?
Eve never rebelled against god.
If we are to take the bible literally, then it is clear that she was simply naively misled into eating a fruit she was not supposed to eat.
How does that translate into a rebellion against god.

There is no child that has not, at one time or another, been misled into disobeying his or her father.
Good fathers don't disown their naive children on account of one small act of disobedience.

You are an expert at twisting the bible.

God didn't disown Eve. He still cared for them and even cloth them. God also promised to protect Cain after he murdered his brother.
God is good but it is people that are running away from him because of their guilt.
You don't need to feel guilty anymore, God loves you and he had send His son to cleans you of your guilt. Just draw near to him.

davien:
Your presupposition does not express the entirety of all possible events.... for example
1."gods" could exist
2."goddesses" could exist
3."a god/goddess" could exist
4.In the event that anyone exists it could be deistic
5.It could be a "personal god"
6.It could be an "anthropomorphic god"
7.It could be an alien life-form
etc
You just grabbed number 3 and 5 and applied a circular argument that either 3 is true or not...then moved on to say "jesus" is number 5...that sir is dishonest.
And you haven't still answered my question...why can the devil have definitive proof of "god" and be free to reject "god" while we get faith alone?....why can't we have definitive proof?

God had given you the greatest proof and it lies deep in your heart.