KidStranglehold:


*Sigh*

Read the sources that were already posted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Berber_people

The usage of the term "Berber" is a recent one. No primary source during antiquity ever mentions a "Berber people" in the Maghreb. They went by Numidian, Ethiopian, Mauri or just their ethnic name.

Today their all binded together because they speak a common language which was recently named "Berber". This is the same case for "Cushite" and "Bantu".

The term "Berber" in all it's variations is wayyyy older than the 19th century. You'll find hints of that on this very thread.

And no, they don't all have/speak a common language either.

I'm sorry to be one to inform you of just how misleading Wiki can be.

Radoillo:



So I checked out the names mentioned in your 'proof:. Turns out they were caliphs of the Ummayyad Dynasty ruling from Cordoba, Spain (Abd errahman ibn Abd Allah, for example). Like I suspected you had taken the information out of context.

Nice.

The muslim fleet from east africa that attacked sicily? It was in medievel time from a book about the moors. The umayyad dynasty is from 661. The book was talking about 1301. There is Even mention about fleets from somalia. Dont confuse the abderahman from caliphate.

Look at the source below it says muslim fleet from was africa and it states by famous european Explorer that somalis were moors.

It also states that gods were shipped from east africa to al andulus.

Here is a map of the berber gene
[img]http://www.thegeneticatlas.com/E1b1b1_Y-DNA.htm[/img]
They were somalis before They mixed with european slaves and later mixed with turks when ottoman colonized it.

Bro if berbers were mentioned They might as well include somalis who were also called berbers. Naturally! It is not my fault you didn't know!

Look see it all Say from east africa! And mentioning Somalis as moors!

I will research this further give you moor stuff written.

EnlightenedSoul:


The term "Berber" in all it's variations is wayyyy older than the 19th century. You'll find hints of that on this very thread.

I'm sorry to be one to inform you of just how misleading Wiki can be.

And they don't speak a common language either.

Using Wikipedia as a cop out won't work. And you're misleading my argument.

I made it clear that the usage of Berber used today is DIFFERENT than the one used in antiquity. Funny since my source even states that.

No ones arguing whether the general word Berber is older than the 19th century or not. The point is the term "Berber" today and the one used to describe the Somalis had TWO different meanings and origins. Just like Ethiopia/Ethiopian has two different meanings from today and antiquity.

EnlightenedSoul:


The term "Berber" in all it's variations is wayyyy older than the 19th century. You'll find hints of that on this very thread.

And no, they don't speak a common language either.

I'm sorry to be one to inform you of just how misleading Wiki can be.

Right bro and somalis and north african were called berbers by the greeks and the romans themselves. If somalia was rich thriving country at that time and were called berbers as well. What right are given to deny them being part of the moors.

Wikipedia is a shitty source. Berber is corruption of the Word barbar which is what Both north africa and somalia was called from ancient time up!

Fine another source:

1820 (n.); 1832 (adj.), from Arabic name for the peoples living west of Egypt; perhaps ultimately from Greek barbaros "barbarians" (see Barbary).

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=Berber

Says the exact same thing about the modern usage of Berber being a recent 19th century term. And if I'm wrong find me a PRIMARY source that describes a Berber people west of Egypt. You can't because a people NEVER existed.

[quote author=Puntite post=29921079]

Right bro and somalis and north african were called berbers by the greeks and the romans themselves. If somalia was rich thriving country at that time and were called berbers as well. What right are given to deny them being part of the moors.

Wikipedia is a shitty source. Berber is corruption of the Word barbar which is what Both north africa and somalia was called from ancient time up. No the term berber was attributed the same way to somalis Then to the berbers in north africa.

Somalis were among the berbers. They were as i should examples of called by europeans moors.

KidStranglehold:


Using Wikipedia as a cop out won't work. And you're misleading my argument.

I made it clear that the usage of Berber used today is DIFFERENT than the one used in antiquity. Funny since my source even states that.

No ones arguing whether the general word Berber is older than the 19th century or not. The point is the term "Berber" today and the one used to describe the Somalis had TWO different meanings and origins. Just like Ethiopia/Ethiopian has two different meanings from today and antiquity.

The North African Amazigh (and etc) were referred to as Berbers in antiquity, just as they are in today's world. That definitely didn't start in the 19th century, nor do they speak a common language as you tried to state. Their languages are in fact numerous.

The berber DNA
http://www.thegeneticatlas.com/E1b1b1_Y-DNA.htm They were somali living there before They bleeped european slaves and ottoman turks.

EnlightenedSoul:


The North African Amazigh (and etc) were referred to as Berbers in antiquity, just as they are in today's world. That didn't start in the 19th century.

Then show me a primary source that states so. I already posted two sources that states the modern usage of "Berber" is RECENT.

EnlightenedSoul:


The North African Amazigh (and etc) were referred to as Berbers in antiquity, just as they are in today's world. That didn't start in the 19th century.

Here is map from antiquity were it show the one in north africa called berbers and somalia

Puntite:
The berber DNA
http://www.thegeneticatlas.com/E1b1b1_Y-DNA.htm They were somali living there before They bleeped european slaves and ottoman turks.

Favorite pic by Somali radicals. Only should a general map of Haplogroup E.

Northwest African males primary carry E-M81 which is not found in Somali males.


Stop claiming already.

Puntite:

Here is map from antiquity were it show the one in north africa called berbers and somalia

I'm not interested in your maps, Axum.

And where's the book?

KidStranglehold:


Then show me a primary source that states so. I already posted two sources that states the modern usage of "Berber" is RECENT.

Here

The name "Berber" derives from variants of the root "barbar," which exist in most Indo-European sub-languages and Arabic. The Greek word "Βαρβαρος" (or the English transliteration, "barbaros" was initially used to refer to non-native speakers (also as non-citizens) in a manner quite similar to the definition of the Sanskrit word "barbara," which also means stammering.

Greek writers, Isocrates (436 - 338 BC) and Xenophon (430 - 354 BC) frequently used "barbaros" when referring to Persians (and other Asians), and the ancient Romans used the word "barbarus" (feminine: barbara) to refer to foreigners, such as Huns, Gauls, and Africans. The Romans expanded its definition to a more negative connotation (e.g. savage and uncivilized), and from the Roman use of the word, we get our present use of "barbarian" in modern English, as well as variants in other European languages.

The term "Berber," as it relates to Africans, was first used by medieval Arabic-speaking Muslim writers (from the Arabic word, "al-barbar" in a similar manner to the original meaning of barbar--to refer to speakers of foreign languages. Arabic-speaking Muslim writers did not use it to refer to any particular African region, culture, or ethnicity. Instead, the term referred to non-Arabic speaking Muslims who were also indigenous Africans (i.e., "black". It was not until much later in history that Europeans began calling the northwest African coast, "Barbary," and even later before they began referring to certain northwest Africans as Berbers.

Here source
http://www.taneter.org/berbers.html

Puntite:

Here




Here source
http://www.taneter.org/berbers.html

Aye Dios mio!!! Read your own sources friend...

The term "Berber," as it relates to Africans, was first used by medieval Arabic-speaking Muslim writers (from the Arabic word, "al-barbar"wink in a similar manner to the original meaning of barbar--to refer to speakers of foreign languages. Arabic-speaking Muslim writers did not use it to refer to any particular African region, culture, or ethnicity. Instead, the term referred to non-Arabic speaking Muslims who were also indigenous Africans (i.e., "black"wink. It was not until much later in history that Europeans began calling the northwest African coast, "Barbary," and even later before they began referring to certain northwest Africans as Berbers.

Thank you for proving my point.

[quote author=KidStranglehold post=29921127]


Favorite pic by Somali radicals. Only should a general map of Haplogroup E.

Northwest African males primary carry E-M81 which is not found in Somali males.

Of course the european or turkish gene thanks for showing how mixed the somalis that live there are.

Also from your OWN link!

The French borrowed from the "Barbariae" name used on world maps when they invaded and terrorized Northwest Africa in 1830 AD. This entire region became known as "Berbérie" and eventually, the Tamazight speaking people would be distinguished from the Turks (used interchangeably with "Arab" by French writers at the time) by using "Berbères." The lasting effect has been the broader use of "Berber" to refer to all Tamazight speakers of Northwest Africa.

LMAO!!!

Like I said the modern useage of the word Berber is RECENT! The Berbers from Northwest Africa and the ancient ones from Somalia never had anything connections. And there was never a group refereed to as Berber in Northwest Africa during antiquity.

Thanks for proving me right again axum.

KidStranglehold:


Aye Dios mio!!! Read your own sources friend...


Thank you for proving my point.

The Word barbar was used. So it was the same shitt. I never refurted that berber was later use as i said it was a corruption of the Word barbar.

KidStranglehold:
Also from your OWN link!


LMAO!!!

Like I said the modern useage of the word Berber is RECENT! The Berbers from Northwest Africa and the ancient ones from Somalia never had anything connections. And there was never a group refereed to as Berber in Northwest Africa during antiquity.


Thanks for proving me right again axum.

It said barbar was used and The same thing as berber. The Word barbar itself became later a due corruption berber. You retard! Dont read just arrive on your own conclusion. It had connections Both were called barbar no berber. Get it? Pluss look their berber language it has alot of somali in it but also european arabic.

I can show u source where Both somalis and north african berbers were called puntites or punic. They were somali before european slave mixing and ottamon turk mixing.

I can show you old pictures of berbers from the past from berber tribes who look100% somali

Even Berbers In the present that look like us

Here look

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqypwKg9RsQ

We even have the same culture and costom

Puntite:


The Word barbar was used. So it was the same shitt. I never refurted that berber was later use as i said it was a corruption of the Word barbar.

At this point, I don't even think you know what you're arguing.

Good day.

Puntidiot:


It said barbar was used and The same thing as berber. The Word barbar itself became later a due corruption berber. You retard! Dont read just arrive on your own conclusion

No I know exactly what I said. I'm saying people from Northwest Africa being called Berber is a recent phenomenon. And so by that they have no connections to Somalis. Since earlier you were trying to say Somalis were in North Africa due to Somalis being called Berbers by the Greeks.

Like I said you don't know what the heck you're arguing after being debunked so many times. Your own link you posted agreed with what I was saying, in that Berbers in North Africa weren't called Berber until the 19th century. So again NO CONNECTION with Somalis you a$$wipe.

KidStranglehold:
Also from your OWN link!


LMAO!!!

Like I said the modern useage of the word Berber is RECENT! The Berbers from Northwest Africa and the ancient ones from Somalia never had anything connections. And there was never a group refereed to as Berber in Northwest Africa during antiquity.

Thanks for proving me right again axum.

The modern usage of the word Berber is recent?

Well, if you meant the Europeans specifically (as I now see), you should've said so. My point was, the "Berbers" were referred to as "Berbers" (in all it's variations) in antiquity as well. They didn't suddenly *poof* become "Berbers" in the 19th century.

KidStranglehold:


No I know exactly what I said. I'm saying people from Northwest Africa being called Berber is a recent phenomenon. And so by that they have no connections to Somalis. Since earlier you were trying to say Somalis were in North Africa due to Somalis being called Berbers by the Greeks.

Like I said you don't know what the heck you're arguing after being debunked so many times. Your own link you posted agreed with what I was saying, in that Berbers in North Africa weren't called Berber until the 19th century. So again NO CONNECTION with Somalis you a$$wipe.

They and somalis were called barbar which was used by Greeks and romans and the word later became berber do you get it? Berber is new and Barbar is not dumb mofo

Go read what I wrote above!

EnlightenedSoul:


The modern usage of the word Berber is recent?

How can anyone argue with such a sentence?

Well, if you meant the Europeans specifically (as I now see), you should've said so. My point was, the "Berbers" were referred to as "Berbers" (in all it's variations) in antiquity as well. They didn't suddenly *poof* become "Berbers" in the 19th century.

If you're talking about Berbers from North Africa. Again no they weren't. There are three sources posted on here that doesn't agree with what you're arguing. People in the Maghreb weren't called Berber until the 19th century.

From Puntites own link:

The French borrowed from the "Barbariae" name used on world maps when they invaded and terrorized Northwest Africa in 1830 AD. This entire region became known as "Berbérie" and eventually, the Tamazight speaking people would be distinguished from the Turks (used interchangeably with "Arab" by French writers at the time) by using "Berbères." The lasting effect has been the broader use of "Berber" to refer to all Tamazight speakers of Northwest Africa.

The term "Berber," as it relates to Africans, was first used by medieval Arabic-speaking Muslim writers (from the Arabic word, "al-barbar"wink in a similar manner to the original meaning of barbar--to refer to speakers of foreign languages. Arabic-speaking Muslim writers did not use it to refer to any particular African region, culture, or ethnicity. Instead, the term referred to non-Arabic speaking Muslims who were also indigenous Africans (i.e., "black"wink. It was not until much later in history that Europeans began calling the northwest African coast, "Barbary," and even later before they began referring to certain northwest Africans as Berbers.

http://www.taneter.org/berbers.html

Again the people from Northwest Africa were not referred to as Berber until the 19th century by the French.

EnlightenedSoul:


The modern usage of the word Berber is recent?

How can anyone argue with such a sentence?

Well, if you meant the Europeans specifically (as I now see), you should've said so. My point was, the "Berbers" were referred to as "Berbers" (in all it's variations) in antiquity as well. They didn't suddenly *poof* become "Berbers" in the 19th century.

Look at this video a Moroccan Berber posted not a somali

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqypwKg9RsQ


Both somalis and Moroccan were called Barbar not Berber

Berber is new Barbar is not!

We both were also called puntites or Punic.

You are so desperate! I swear! Ask any dark skinned Berber if he is related to somalis he says most certainly.

The word Berber is new BARBAR is not see the difference

From
My own

The term "Berber," as it relates to Africans, was first used by medieval Arabic-speaking Muslim writers (from the Arabic word, "al-barbar"wink in a similar manner to the original meaning of barbar--to refer to

See Barbar was used to refer to both North Africa and somalia

The word itself later became Berber dumbfuck!

Barbar!!

Puntite:

Look at this video a Moroccan Berber posted not a somali

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqypwKg9RsQ


Both somalis and Moroccan were called Barbar not Berber

Berber is new Barbar is not!

We both were also called puntites or Punic.

You are so desperate! I swear! Ask any dark skinned Berber if he is related to somalis he says most certainly.

So a pseudo-science YouTube video is your source? Which argument is basically eyeballing and using genetics out of context?

Like I said Somalis do not carry Berber marker E-M81. Again STOP CLAIMING and take your hamitic unity trash somewhere else...

KidStranglehold:


So a pseudo-science YouTube video is your source? Which argument is basically eyeballing and using genetics out of context?

Like I said Somalis do not carry Berber marker E-M81. Again STOP CLAIMING and take your hamitic unity trash somewhere else...

Ironic cuz a Berber North African posted that dumb video shit. That DNA proves nothing becuz it came about through asmixture from either European or Turkish.

Puntite:


Ironic cuz a Berber North African posted that dumb shit. That DNA proves nothing becuz it came about through asmixture from either European or Turkish we were also called as well as the Berbers Punic or puntite .

here they named the "Land of Punt," sacred to later Egyptians as the source of the race. The Pun people founded the island fortress of Ha-fun, which commands the whole of that coast, and hence came the Punic.

Ha-fun is city in somalia. Go search both somalis and Berbers were
Called Barbar and Punic. No wishfull thinking is going to change that. The Berber language is a mix of European somali and little Arabic.

They were originally somali even the darkskinned Berbers themselves tureg don't refute that

Puntite:

Look at this video a Moroccan Berber posted not a somali

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqypwKg9RsQ


Both somalis and Moroccan were called Barbar not Berber

Berber is new Barbar is not!

We both were also called puntites or Punic.

You are so desperate! I swear! Ask any dark skinned Berber if he is related to somalis he says most certainly.

Sorry. You're 'argument' is ages different from mine, Axum.

KidStranglehold:


If you're talking about Berbers from North Africa. Again no they weren't. There are three sources posted on here that doesn't agree with what you're arguing. People in the Maghreb weren't called Berber until the 19th century.

Again the people from Northwest Africa were not referred to as Berber until the 19th century by the French.

Yes, I'm talking about North Africa!

Look, perhaps the French started calling them "Berbers" in 19th century, but other civilizations such as the Greeks and Arabs were already in the habit of doing so longgg before the 19th century, in antiquity.

I wish I could show you some (primary) older texts on history of at least the Arabs doing so, but they would be in Arabic anyway and of little use to you.

EnlightenedSoul:


Yes, I'm talking about North Africa.

Look, perhaps the French started calling them "Berbers" in 19th century, but other civilizations such as the Greeks and Arabs indeed refer to them as "Berbers" long before that, in antiquity. They were already in the habit of doing so.


I wish I could show you so some (primary) older texts, but they would be in Arabic anyway.

I showed him ibn battuta in medieval time calling both somalis and himself berber.

The word had different variation and Barbar was most used in the past before Berber

Puntite:


I showed him ibn battuta in medieval time calling both somalis and himself berber.

The word had different variation and Barbar was most used in the past before Berber

Why are you claiming Berbers, Moors etc etc? Is that why you opened this one? Smh.

It's not the same.