Happy sunday to all.
I have been trying to reconcile and settle this for a long time now to no avail. I trust i will find what i'm looking for here on nl as always.
According to Genesis 2vs17 :but the tree of good and evil , thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou eatest of it thou shalt surely "die".
Genesis 3vs4: and the serpent said to the woman, Ye shall not surely "die".
Romans 5vs14: nevertheless "death" reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that has not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression. ---ALL KJV
So the above verses what kind of death were the referring to; spiritual, physical or otherwise? Please i wish most of you wiil address this. thanks

this is a hard oneoo but from what my pastor said sometime l wiil tell you this. I think the bible was referring to spiritual death. It couldnt have been physical death because Adam and Eve would have died physically anyway. They cant live forever. Hope that helped

Sookul:
this is a hard oneoo but from what my pastor said sometime l wiil tell you this. I think the bible was referring to spiritual death. It couldnt have been physical death because Adam and Eve would have died physically anyway. They cant live forever. Hope that helped

thanks bro it realy helped. Hope all these our nl pastor's will say something too.

Of course it means spiritual death. To be cut off from fellowship with God equals death.

Besides, the pair didn't immediately drop dead after the act of disobedience.

Let God explain what he meant by death

" And to Adam he said : " In the sweat of your face you will eat bread Until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For Dust you are and to dust you { Adam} Shall Return"" Gen 3:17- 19 !!

But Did Adam died the day he ate the fruit ... YES !! A day with God is 1000years , Adam spent a lifetime of 930 years , from Gods sight he didnt use a day , thus he died within a day and the curse of death overtake him and he finally returned to dust . Gen 3:19,

NOTE : durin that 930 years he fulfilled what God has foretold that he will bcom many ! Thus gave birth to sons and daughters before death finally snatch him away .

dein77:
Of course it means spiritual death. To be cut off from fellowship with God equals death.

Besides, the pair didn't immediately drop dead after the act of disobedience.

bros thanks 4 response. But there's a little mix up. If you read Romans 5vs14 as highlighted above it says "death reigned from Adam To Moses". The Bible stated elsewhere that the law brought sin and consequently death .(Moses brought the law long after Adam) Also if it were spiritual death how did the physical come about. Or is it God's original design even in Garden Of Eden?

CAPTIVATOR:
Let God explain what he meant by death

" And to Adam he said : " In the sweat of your face you will eat bread Until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For Dust you are and to dust you { Adam} Shall Return"" Gen 3:17- 19 !!

But Did Adam died the day he ate the fruit ... YES !! A day with God is 1000years , Adam spent a lifetime of 930 years , from Gods sight he didnt use a day , thus he died within a day and the curse of death overtake him and he finally returned to dust . Gen 3:19,

NOTE : durin that 930 years he fulfilled what God has foretold that he will bcom many ! Thus gave birth to sons and daughters before death finally snatch him away .

quite insightful. I think you just made this more interesting. You are the first to speak otherwise

CAPTIVATOR:
Let God explain what he meant by death

" And to Adam he said : " In the sweat of your face you will eat bread Until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For Dust you are and to dust you { Adam} Shall Return"" Gen 3:17- 19 !!

But Did Adam died the day he ate the fruit ... YES !! A day with God is 1000years , Adam spent a lifetime of 930 years , from Gods sight he didnt use a day , thus he died within a day and the curse of death overtake him and he finally returned to dust . Gen 3:19,

NOTE : durin that 930 years he fulfilled what God has foretold that he will bcom many ! Thus gave birth to sons and daughters before death finally snatch him away .

Very deep. I will have to read it again.

Please i want you to also consider this : Genesis 3 vs 4-5 reads "you shall not surely die, for God knows that the day thou shalt eat thereof thine eyes shall be opened and ye shall be as gods knowing good and evil." Truly when they (Adam nd Eve) ate the forbidden fruit, their eyes was truly opened to know good and evil (just as the serpent told them). And the same serpent promised that they shall not surely die.

DEagle1:
Please i want you to also consider this : Genesis 3 vs 4-5 reads "you shall not surely die, for God knows that the day thou shalt eat thereof thine eyes shall be opened and ye shall be as gods knowing good and evil."

Dont get it wrong my brother

Someone said an hairdresser can make hair! Thats a known fact , infact the work of an hairdresser .

Name of tree = TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL

As d above indicates , the product of that tree is to let anyone that eats it KNOW and have the knowledge of GOOD AND EVIL , Infact God himself know this truth, ( Gen 3:5) ..... But the vocal point of detectin who is lyin between God and Satan is their words .

God : " If u eat the tree of good and evil ( as the name indicates, you will know good and evil of course,) But You Will Surely Die ." Gen 2:17

Satan: " If you eat the tree of good and evil ( as d name indicates, you will know good and evil) But You surely will NOT Die" Gen 3:4

DEagle1:
Happy sunday to all.
I have been trying to reconcile and settle this for a long time now to no avail. I trust i will find what i'm looking for here on nl as always.
According to Genesis 2vs17 :but the tree of good and evil , thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou eatest of it thou shalt surely "die".
Genesis 3vs4: and the serpent said to the woman, Ye shall not surely "die".
Romans 5vs14: nevertheless "death" reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that has not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression. ---ALL KJV
So the above verses what kind of death were the referring to; spiritual, physical or otherwise? Please i wish most of you wiil address this. thanks

Gen 2:17 refers to both spiritual and physical death, while others refer to physical death.

CAPTIVATOR:
Let God explain what he meant by death

" And to Adam he said : " In the sweat of your face you will eat bread Until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For Dust you are and to dust you { Adam} Shall Return"" Gen 3:17- 19 !!

But Did Adam died the day he ate the fruit ... YES !! A day with God is 1000years , Adam spent a lifetime of 930 years , from Gods sight he didnt use a day , thus he died within a day and the curse of death overtake him and he finally returned to dust . Gen 3:19,

NOTE : durin that 930 years he fulfilled what God has foretold that he will bcom many ! Thus gave birth to sons and daughters before death finally snatch him away .

sorry the bible didn't say a day with God is 1000 years with man because if that is correct then God tells you I will give you something tomorrow then it is after 1000 years.
2 peter 3:8
but beloved be not ignorant of this one thingthat one day is with the lord AS A thousand years and a thousand years AS a one day

that is to say God's timing is different from man's timing.

God doesn't dwell in time . he dwells in eternity. it is man that dwells in time.
When God told adam you will surely die , he was referring to spiritual death. The separation from God.
The physical was destined to happen.
it is like when you uproot a plant from the earth .
it has died but physically it still looks okay but with time it will fade away.

DEagle1:
Happy sunday to all.
I have been trying to reconcile and settle this for a long time now to no avail. I trust i will find what i'm looking for here on nl as always.
According to Genesis 2vs17 :but the tree of good and evil , thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou eatest of it thou shalt surely "die".
Genesis 3vs4: and the serpent said to the woman, Ye shall not surely "die".
Romans 5vs14: nevertheless "death" reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that has not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression. ---ALL KJV
So the above verses what kind of death were the referring to; spiritual, physical or otherwise? Please i wish most of you wiil address this. thanks

They were all referring to spiritual death. except when Satan deceived eve that God was referring to physical death.
genesis 2:17 was telling man that he will die spiritually though physically he didn't die.

Romans 5:14
let me explain.
The bible said the wages of sin is death.....
that is spiritual death.
and when adam sinned spiritual death had entered the world and began to reign above all of them even if they didn't transgress like adam. spiritual death reigned over all because they all sinned in adam.

oprajo:


sorry the bible didn't say a day with God is 1000 years with man because if that is correct then God tells you I will give you something tomorrow then it is after 1000 years.
2 peter 3:8
but beloved be not ignorant of this one thingthat one day is with the lord AS A thousand years and a thousand years AS a one day

that is to say God's timing is different from man's timing.

God doesn't dwell in time . he dwells in eternity. it is man that dwells in time.
When God told adam you will surely die , he was referring to spiritual death. The separation from God.
The physical was destined to happen.
it is like when you uproot a plant from the earth .
it has died but physically it still looks okay but with time it will fade away.

You are correct to some extent, God's timing is different from humans. However, it also means that "day" from God's reckoning is more than 24hrs. It is thus evident that God used His reckoning when he said "day" in that Genesis. From that point, we can say that Adam didnt live more than God's "day".

The bold face isnt true. Granted, the death God pronounced means that Adam died a spiritual death, but God's statement shows that Adam would die physically too. Why do I say so?

Paul identified why we die. He said:

[KJV] Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

So sin is the reason why Adam died, and the reason why we die too since we inherited that sin from Adam. Compare James 1:15

If it was only spiritual death, people of God like Abraham, Sarah and Timothy would never have died cos they were never spiritually dead. But they all died 'cos of sin from Adam.

oprajo:

They were all referring to spiritual death. except when Satan deceived eve that God was referring to physical death.
genesis 2:17 was telling man that he will die spiritually though physically he didn't die.

Romans 5:14
let me explain.
The bible said the wages of sin is death.....
that is spiritual death.
and when adam sinned spiritual death had entered the world and began to reign above all of them even if they didn't transgress like adam. spiritual death reigned over all because they all sinned in adam.

Please see my comment above.

I dont think you are correct here. True servants of Jehovah are not death spiritually. we read:

[AMP] Ephesians 2:1 And you [He made alive], when you were dead (slain) by [your] trespasses and sins.

You see that God made His true servants alive spiritually. So spiritually, true xtians are living, but this does not mean that they do not die physically.

Paul was not referring to spiritual death in that verse. Neither does the scripture support the assertion that true worshipers of God are still spiritually dead. Never!

Paul stated that we have been "reconciled" with God at Rom 5:10, 11. Any who is reconcilled with God is not dead spiritually. So his stating that death ruled as king even to spiritually living worshipers of God, shows the reference was to physical death.

man really died. man is an hebrew word which means spirit what remained was d flesh which means adamm dat was why adam couldn't take dominion over earth but jesus came to give us back dat spirit which is d holy ghost now we have to do all with jesus did john 14:12 mathew 18:18 but christian don't know they deal on doctrine and not d life of christ which is winning souls healing d sick raising d dead casting out devils etc as easy as that.

you question is a serious one because understanding it helps us alot to know what sin does.
..let us go back to Rom. 5:12.."therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned"..one thing that is clear from this verse is than sin brought death. everytime we sin, something in us die and that is our spiritual connection with God; we loss sight of God(that is spiritual death)..see how adam and eve hide themselves from God because they lost Him as soon as they ate the forbidden friut and God banished them from the garden(His domain where He does fellowship with them). So, the death in those verse is first of all spiritual. So, when the bible says the wages of sin is death, i believe that is what it meant; every time we sin, we die spiritually and when it is left unconfessed and without the ministry of the blood of Jesus, real death follows..i.e the death of the body and soul.

I must add this., to escape the second death, we must embrace the ministry of the blood of Jesus, His cross and resurrection for a complete victory over the Old Man.

Alexk2:
you question is a serious one because understanding it helps us alot to know what sin does.
..let us go back to Rom. 5:12.."therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned"..one thing that is clear from this verse is than sin brought death. everytime we sin, something in us die and that is our spiritual connection with God; we loss sight of God(that is spiritual death)..see how adam and eve hide themselves from God because they lost Him as soon as they ate the forbidden friut and God banished them from the garden(His domain where He does fellowship with them). So, the death in those verse is first of all spiritual. So, when the bible says the wages of sin is death, i believe that is what it meant; every time we sin, we die spiritually and when it is left unconfessed and without the ministry of the blood of Jesus, real death follows..i.e the death of the body and soul

I must add this., to escape the second death, we must embrace the ministry of the blood of Jesus, His cross and resurrection for a complete victory over the Old Man.

Why did Paul, Timothy and John die? Because they didnt confess their sins and they never accepted the blood of Jesus?

ezehy:
man really died. man is an hebrew word which means spirit what remained was d flesh which means adamm dat was why adam couldn't take dominion over earth but jesus came to give us back dat spirit which is d holy ghost now we have to do all with jesus did john 14:12 mathew 18:18 but christian don't know they deal on doctrine and not d life of christ which is winning souls healing d sick raising d dead casting out devils etc as easy as that.

Where in hebrew does Adam mean spirit?

JMAN05:


Please see my comment above.

I dont think you are correct here. True servants of Jehovah are not death spiritually. we read:

[AMP] Ephesians 2:1 And you [He made alive], when you were dead (slain) by [your] trespasses and sins.

You see that God made His true servants alive spiritually. So spiritually, true xtians are living, but this does not mean that they do not die physically.

Paul was not referring to spiritual death in that verse. Neither does the scripture support the assertion that true worshipers of God are still spiritually dead. Never!

Paul stated that we have been "reconciled" with God at Rom 5:10, 11. Any who is reconcilled with God is not dead spiritually. So his stating that death ruled as king even to spiritually living worshipers of God, shows the reference was to physical death.

we are saying two different things. your statement is concerning a christian now . because a christian cannot be spiritually dead for he is already spiritually alive. and you are correct. But before we became spiritually alive where we not spiritually dead. that was what apostle paul was trying to say. he was saying that since we became spiritually dead because of what adam did why can't we become spiritually alive ( to become righteous through his Grace) because of what Jesus did. we are both correct

JMAN05:


You are correct to some extent, God's timing is different from humans. However, it also means that "day" from God's reckoning is more than 24hrs. It is thus evident that God used His reckoning when he said "day" in that Genesis. From that point, we can say that Adam didnt live more than God's "day".

The bold face isnt true. Granted, the death God pronounced means that Adam died a spiritual death, but God's statement shows that Adam would die physically too. Why do I say so?

Paul identified why we die. He said:

[KJV] Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

So sin is the reason why Adam died, and the reason why we die too since we inherited that sin from Adam. Compare James 1:15

If it was only spiritual death, people of God like Abraham, Sarah and Timothy would never have died cos they were never spiritually dead. But they all died 'cos of sin from Adam.

The physical death is certain because a man is spiritually dead. it just like the plant in the soil. when you uproot it, does it whither immediately ? no. but over a period of time it will whither . why because it has been separated from its source

JMAN05:


You are correct to some extent, God's timing is different from humans. However, it also means that "day" from God's reckoning is more than 24hrs. It is thus evident that God used His reckoning when he said "day" in that Genesis. From that point, we can say that Adam didnt live more than God's "day".

The bold face isnt true. Granted, the death God pronounced means that Adam died a spiritual death, but God's statement shows that Adam would die physically too. Why do I say so?

Paul identified why we die. He said:

[KJV] Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

So sin is the reason why Adam died, and the reason why we die too since we inherited that sin from Adam. Compare James 1:15

If it was only spiritual death, people of God like Abraham, Sarah and Timothy would never have died cos they were never spiritually dead. But they all died 'cos of sin from Adam.

The physical death is certain because a man is spiritually dead. it just like the plant in the soil. when you uproot it, does it whither immediately ? no. but over a period of time it will whither . why because it has been separated from its source.
The same with the fishes in the sea . when you remove them from water. they don't die immediately but over a period of time. meaning God expects everything to be connected to its source for sustainance. The same with adam. if God was referring to physical death there meaning adam ought to die that moment when he sinned and the devil told the truth expect adam never died physically that time . What God was referring to was spiritual death not the physical. physical is only a certainty because he is dead spiritually. physical death is the separation of the Spirit from the body while spiritual death is the separation of man from God

oprajo:

The physical death is certain because a man is spiritually dead. it just like the plant in the soil. when you uproot it, does it whither immediately ? no. but over a period of time it will whither . why because it has been separated from its source.
The same with the fishes in the sea . when you remove them from water. they don't die immediately but over a period of time. meaning God expects everything to be connected to its source for sustainance. The same with adam. if God was referring to physical death there meaning adam ought to die that moment when he sinned and the devil told the truth expect adam never died physically that time . What God was referring to was spiritual death not the physical. physical is only a certainty because he is dead spiritually. physical death is the separation of the Spirit from the body while spiritual death is the separation of man from God

In other words, Abraham, Paul, Timothy, Peter were separated from God? Yes or no.

And also know that no one who separates from God would have eternal life.

2. My dear Satan is a liar. Dont go along his path, if not, you too will be decieved like Adam. If you say that Adam should have died that day, you are in effect saying that God's day is 24hrs. Is that not against your earlier statement?

3. If adam died cos of spiritual death, and we die ciz of this spiritual death, then no man will inherit salvation, cos eternal life are for those who are alive spiritually.

The bible shows that true xtians are not dead, but they are spiritually alive. Do you believe that? Or are you and your pastor also separated from God? If you are, sorry, but I am not.

JMAN05:


In other words, Abraham, Paul, Timothy, Peter were separated from God? Yes or no.

And also know that no one who separates from God would have eternal life.

2. My dear Satan is a liar. Dont go along his path, if not, you too will be decieved like Adam. If you say that Adam should have died that day, you are in effect saying that God's day is 24hrs. Is that not against your earlier statement?

3. If adam died cos of spiritual death, and we die ciz of this spiritual death, then no man will inherit salvation, cos eternal life are for those who are alive spiritually.

The bible shows that true xtians are not dead, but they are spiritually alive. Do you believe that? Or are you and your pastor also separated from God? If you are, sorry, but I am not.

you confusing two things . was adam a christian?.
1)Abraham was spiritually dead but not peter paul and Timothy when they became christians .
The bible says
Romans 5:14
nevertheless death reigned from adam to Moses EVEN OVER THOSE WHO HADN'T SINNED ACCORDING TO THE LIKENESS OF ADAM'S TRANSGRESDION ......

notice he didn't say death reigned from Adam to jesus? but from Adam to Moses .why because at the time of moses God gave them the Law. and if they could obey all the laws then they will have life
but they couldn't . that was why Jesus came.
John 10 :10
.....I HAVE COME THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE LIFE AND HAVE IT MORE ABUDANTLY .
you can't give life to someone who is alive but to someone who is dead. The people jesus was talking to were alive physically but were dead spiritually as a result of Adam's transgression

2) God doesn't have a day he doesn't dwell in time , Adam does. adam died that day because God told he would . if then say ada never died that day then God lied. that is the spiritually death which the bible refers to. 1 corinthians 15:22
for as in adam ALL DIE even so in christ all shall be made alive.

This verse said all died in adam . what kind of death if physical then everybody should have been in the grave before jesus came but paul wasn't referring to physical death but spiritual death which consumed everybody because of adam. A CHRISIAN IS NOT SPIRITUALLY DEAD BECAUSE HE HAS NO TIES WITH THE FIRST ADAM.
WHEN YOU BECOME BORN AGAIN YOU BECOME SPIRITUALLY ALIVE

3)A CHRISTIAN IS SPIRITUALLY ALIVE BECAUSE HE IS IN THE SECOND ADAM WHICH IS JESUS AND HE HAS ETERNAL LIFE

oprajo:

we are saying two different things. your statement is concerning a christian now . because a christian cannot be spiritually dead for he is already spiritually alive. and you are correct. But before we became spiritually alive where we not spiritually dead. that was what apostle paul was trying to say. he was saying that since we became spiritually dead because of what adam did why can't we become spiritually alive ( to become righteous through his Grace) because of what Jesus did. we are both correct

If the pronoucement of God is about spiritual death, why do we die physically?

why did Christ die physically?

What is the wages of sin? spiritual death or physical death?

Read 1cor 15:55, 56. Which death is mentioned there, physical of spiritual?

JMAN05:


If the pronoucement of God is about spiritual death, why do we die physically?

why did Christ die physically?

What is the wages of sin? spiritual death or physical death?

Read 1cor 15:55, 56. Which death is mentioned there, physical of spiritual?

physical death is a certainty. I have explained this before you die physically because you are dead spiritually. a christian dies physically even though he is spiritually alive because his body is mortal(that is death doomed) that is why we will get the immortal body at the rapture.
2) christ died physically because he died spiritually
Matthew 27:46
and in the ninth hour jesus cried out with a loud voice
Eli Eli lama sabachthani ? that is MY GOD MY GOD WHY HAS THOU FORSAKEN ME?
amplified version
..... THAT IS MY GOD MY GOD WHY HAVE YOU ABANDONED ME (LEAVING ME HELPLESS, FORSAKING AND FAILING ME IN MY NEED?
WHY DID THE FATHER FORSAKE HIM ? BECAUSE HE HAD TAKEN OUR PLACE WHICH MEANS ALL THE PUNISHMENT(which includes spiritual and physical) WE OUGHT TO FACE HE FACED IT , That was why the father forsook him . He died spiritually.
colossians 1:18
he is the head of the body the church who is the beginning, THE FIRST BORN FROM THE DEAD THAT IN ALL THINGS HE MIGHT HAVE THE PREEMINECE .

which death is he referring to ? physical no because 1) Jesus wasn't born out physical death but was RAISED FROM PHYSICAL DEATH. that was why it was the same body but a glorified one thst was it still had that the scars of his physical death.
2) Jesus wasn't the first person to be raised physically. lazarus e.t.c were raised before him.

It was referring to spiritual death . He is the first man to be born out of spiritual death then the church. that was why
Hebrews 1:5
To unto which of the angels said he at any time
Thou art my SON , this day have I BEGOTTEN thee ?.....

he didn't say this day I have raised thee but begotten referring to his birth out of spiritual death.
Wages of sin is spiritual death ( that is separation from God) physical is only a certainty
spiritual death and physical death also been referred to in 1 corinthians 15
death has been defeated but not destroyed.

oprajo:

physical death is a certainty. I have explained this before you die physically because you are dead spiritually. a christian dies physically even though he is spiritually alive because his body is mortal(that is death doomed) that is why we will get the immortal body at the rapture.
2) christ died physically because he died spiritually
Matthew 27:46
and in the ninth hour jesus cried out with a loud voice
Eli Eli lama sabachthani ? that is MY GOD MY GOD WHY HAS THOU FORSAKEN ME?
amplified version
..... THAT IS MY GOD MY GOD WHY HAVE YOU ABANDONED ME (LEAVING ME HELPLESS, FORSAKING AND FAILING ME IN MY NEED?
WHY DID THE FATHER FORSAKE HIM ? BECAUSE HE HAD TAKEN OUR PLACE WHICH MEANS ALL THE PUNISHMENT(which includes spiritual and physical) WE OUGHT TO FACE HE FACED IT , That was why the father forsook him . He died spiritually.
colossians 1:18
he is the head of the body the church who is the beginning, THE FIRST BORN FROM THE DEAD THAT IN ALL THINGS HE MIGHT HAVE THE PREEMINECE .

which death is he referring to ? physical no because 1) Jesus wasn't born out physical death but was RAISED FROM PHYSICAL DEATH. that was why it was the same body but a glorified one thst was it still had that the scars of his physical death.
2) Jesus wasn't the first person to be raised physically. lazarus e.t.c were raised before him.

Christ died spiritually, and that was why his Father forsook him? Are you kidding me?

The cry of Jesus was just a fulfilment of scripture dear, not that his father forsook him. He was raised by this same Father. But God had to live him so that he would save mankind.

Without his blood, no one will be saved. If Christ died spiritually, his blood would not be valid to redeem mankind. Because what was needed to redeem us was the blood of a perfect man, not someone who is separated from God. Heb 9:14 Where are you getting this garbage from?

You are basically saying that your trinity was separated from God. Impeccable!!

- First born from the dead means that he was the first to be raised up immortal.

Read Gen 3:19

what as the punishment for Adam eating that fruit? Physical or spiritual death?

It was referring to spiritual death . He is the first man to be born out of spiritual death then the church. that was why
Hebrews 1:5
To unto which of the angels said he at any time
Thou art my SON , this day have I BEGOTTEN thee ?.....

he didn't say this day I have raised thee but begotten referring to his birth out of spiritual death.

That scripture isnt talking about born out of spiritual death. It was a decree God made to Christ by extension for a kingdom. It first fulfilled on David, then Jesus.

Remember what God said at Jesus baptism.

Christ has never been dead spiritually. Let me ask you: [size=15]When the bulls were offered in the Law for the sin of people, were the bulls killed spiritually or physically?[/size]

Wages of sin is spiritual death ( that is separation from God) physical is only a certainty
spiritual death and physical death also been referred to in 1 corinthians 15
death has been defeated but not destroyed.

1. "For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord" Rom 6:23

This scripture can only be plausible if the death is physical. For our sin results to death, while Christ gives eternal life. If Christ's gift were only spiritual life, then we will all physically die eternally. Paul was spiritually alive, but he died eventually. You may say, he will be raised as a person, but no, eternal existence was never part of the gift. The gift was just living spiritually (If your argument were to be consistent. that is the implication.)

2. Nope. What is referred to at that 1Cor 15: 55, 56 is not spiritual death, but physical one. Paul's words were after the "saints" had received immortality after resurrection from the dead. Death has no power over them anymore. The "saints" were spiritually alive even before they died, it is only physical death that is there enemy here.

oprajo:

you confusing two things . was adam a christian?.
1)Abraham was spiritually dead but not peter paul and Timothy when they became christians .
The bible says
Romans 5:14
nevertheless death reigned from adam to Moses EVEN OVER THOSE WHO HADN'T SINNED ACCORDING TO THE LIKENESS OF ADAM'S TRANSGRESDION ......

notice he didn't say death reigned from Adam to jesus? but from Adam to Moses .why because at the time of moses God gave them the Law. and if they could obey all the laws then they will have life
but they couldn't . that was why Jesus came.
John 10 :10
.....I HAVE COME THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE LIFE AND HAVE IT MORE ABUDANTLY .
you can't give life to someone who is alive but to someone who is dead. The people jesus was talking to were alive physically but were dead spiritually as a result of Adam's transgression

"Nevertheless, death ruled as king from Adam down to Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the same way that Adam transgressed, who bears a resemblance to the one who was to come."

Who is the one who is to come?

2) God doesn't have a day he doesn't dwell in time , Adam does. adam died that day because God told he would . if then say ada never died that day then God lied. that is the spiritually death which the bible refers to. 1 corinthians 15:22
for as in adam ALL DIE even so in christ all shall be made alive.

God does not dwell in time, but Peter told us that if we are to estimate His time, it will be a day to our 1000 yrs. Thats plane. And Adam never lived up to it. How hard is that?

This verse said all died in adam . what kind of death if physical then everybody should have been in the grave before jesus came but paul wasn't referring to physical death but spiritual death which consumed everybody because of adam. A CHRISIAN IS NOT SPIRITUALLY DEAD BECAUSE HE HAS NO TIES WITH THE FIRST ADAM.
WHEN YOU BECOME BORN AGAIN YOU BECOME SPIRITUALLY ALIVE

People cant all be in the grave because none have lived up to God's "day". Well, His statement was that Adam will never live up to His "day".

Death still rules as king. You cant ask death where is your stings. Can you? But you can ask such from spiritual death. because when you are born again, as you say, you are then spiritually alive. Spiritual death has no power over you.

3)A CHRISTIAN IS SPIRITUALLY ALIVE BECAUSE HE IS IN THE SECOND ADAM WHICH IS JESUS AND HE HAS ETERNAL LIFE

So spiritual death has no power over them, but physical death do. Agreed?

JMAN05:


"Nevertheless, death ruled as king from Adam down to Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the same way that Adam transgressed, who bears a resemblance to the one who was to come."

Who is the one who is to come?



God does not dwell in time, but Peter told us that if we are to estimate His time, it will be a day to our 1000 yrs. Thats plane. And Adam never lived up to it. How hard is that?



People cant all be in the grave because none have lived up to God's "day". Well, His statement was that Adam will never live up to His "day".

Death still rules as king. You cant ask death where is your stings. Can you? But you can ask such from spiritual death. because when you are born again, as you say, you are then spiritually alive. Spiritual death has no power over you.



So spiritual death has no power over them, but physical death do. Agreed?

1) Jesus is the one to come that is the second adam .
2 ) stop miss quoting peter. peter never said God one day is our thousand years. answer this question if God one day is our thousand years then when God says I will give you something tomorrow then it means what?
2 peter 3: 8-9
but beloved be not ignorant of this one thing that one day is with God as a thousand yearsand a thousand years as one day.
9) The lord is nt SLACK concerning his promises as some men count slackness but is long-suffering to us ward not willing that any should perish but all should come to repentance.

in context of what peter is saying that a thousand years is AS A DAY. he didn't say a thousand years is a day but as a . that is a figure of SPEECH was used here . which is simile. The use of as and like.
when I say be bold AS a lion . does that mean that you are a lion?
the next verse he talked about people accusing God of slackness . The
verses from 3-10 was about the rapture . God doesn't dwell in time but msb does . That is why God doesn't have a future or a past . he dwells in eternity.

3) death has been abolished, defeated but hasn't been destroyed.
1 corinthians 15: 26
the last enemy that shall been destroyed is death.
Death doesn't reign again because it has been defeated but it will be destroyed. Spiritual and physical death had no authority over a christian. you die when you chose not when death chooses
so a christian can't die spiritually but dies physically not because he physical death has authority over him but because his body is mortal. when he will be given the immortal body at the time of the rapture

JMAN05:


Christ died spiritually, and that was why his Father forsook him? Are you kidding me?

The cry of Jesus was just a fulfilment of scripture dear, not that his father forsook him. He was raised by this same Father. But God had to live him so that he would save mankind.

Without his blood, no one will be saved. If Christ died spiritually, his blood would not be valid to redeem mankind. Because what was needed to redeem us was the blood of a perfect man, not someone who is separated from God. Heb 9:14 Where are you getting this garbage from?

You are basically saying that your trinity was separated from God. Impeccable!!

- First born from the dead means that he was the first to be raised up immortal.

Read Gen 3:19

what as the punishment for Adam eating that fruit? Physical or spiritual death?



That scripture isnt talking about born out of spiritual death. It was a decree God made to Christ by extension for a kingdom. It first fulfilled on David, then Jesus.

Remember what God said at Jesus baptism.

Christ has never been dead spiritually. Let me ask you: [size=15]When the bulls were offered in the Law for the sin of people, were the bulls killed spiritually or physically?[/size]



1. "For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord" Rom 6:23

This scripture can only be plausible if the death is physical. For our sin results to death, while Christ gives eternal life. If Christ's gift were only spiritual life, then we will all physically die eternally. Paul was spiritually alive, but he died eventually. You may say, he will be raised as a person, but no, eternal existence was never part of the gift. The gift was just living spiritually (If your argument were to be consistent. that is the implication.)

2. Nope. What is referred to at that 1Cor 15: 55, 56 is not spiritual death, but physical one. Paul's words were after the "saints" had received immortality after resurrection from the dead. Death has no power over them anymore. The "saints" were spiritually alive even before they died, it is only physical death that is there enemy here.

Jesus died spiritually. the father don't need to forsake him in other that he will be able for man.
Jesus didn't say that only to fulfill prophecy but because it actually happened if not then he will be lying.
Psalm 22 : 1
my God my God why hast thou forsaken me ? WHY ART SO FAR FROM HELPING ME AND FROM THE WORDS OF MY ROARING?
MEANING JESUS cried out for the father help but the father couldn't not that he wouldn't help him . Jesus had taken man place . Every form punishment man had to face jesus faced it . so if jesus didn't die spiritually because man had to die spiritually then he wasn't a legal sacrifice.

The blood of jesus was not the only sacrifice but part of the the sacrifice. Jesus himself is the sacrifice.
Hebrews 9 : 26
...... but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away SIN BY THE SACRIFICE OF HIMSELF.

The blood of bulls and goats never blotted out sin but only covered because they were not the perfect sacrifice.
The word First begotten in greek is from two words PROTOS WHICH MEANS FIRST AND TIKTO WHICH MEANS TO BORN.
just like when you say my first child or born . what I said also is that I have a at least a second. God is saying that he has those who follow which is the CHURCH.Resurrection mean to bring back to life. Jesus body was RESURRECTED NOT BEGOTTEN. if to BEGOTTEN MEANS TO RESURRRECT THEN JESUS SHOULD HAVE STILL BE CALLED ONLY BEGOTTEN NOT FIRST BEGOTTEN because the church had not been Resurrected physically yet.
if adam hadn't sinned he would have lived for ever not because he had eternal life but because death hadn't entered into the world.

JMAN05:


Why did Paul, Timothy and John die? Because they didnt confess their sins and they never accepted the blood of Jesus?

which bible are you reading sir.? it was paul who made the ministry of the blood more clearer and he wrote the romans that we brought the questn.....how could he and other apostles not have confessed their sin and accept His cleansing blood?....read your bible very well pls.

[quote
author=oprajo post=30115980]
Jesus died spiritually. the father don't need to forsake him in other
that he will be able for man.
Jesus didn't say that only to fulfill prophecy but because it actually
happened if not then he will be lying.
Psalm 22 : 1
my God my God why hast thou forsaken me ? WHY ART SO FAR FROM HELPING ME
AND FROM THE WORDS OF MY ROARING?
MEANING JESUS cried out for the father help but the father couldn't not
that he wouldn't help him . Jesus had taken man place . Every form
punishment man had to face jesus faced it . so if jesus didn't die
spiritually because man had to die spiritually then he wasn't a legal
sacrifice.

The blood of jesus was not the only sacrifice but part of the the
sacrifice. Jesus himself is the sacrifice.
Hebrews 9 : 26
...... but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away
SIN BY THE SACRIFICE OF HIMSELF.

The blood of bulls and goats never blotted out sin but only covered
because they were not the perfect sacrifice.
The word First begotten in greek is from two words PROTOS WHICH MEANS
FIRST AND TIKTO WHICH MEANS TO BORN.
just like when you say my first child or born . what I said also is that
I have a at least a second. God is saying that he has those who follow
which is the CHURCH.Resurrection mean to bring back to life. Jesus body
was RESURRECTED NOT BEGOTTEN. if to BEGOTTEN MEANS TO RESURRRECT THEN
JESUS SHOULD HAVE STILL BE CALLED ONLY BEGOTTEN NOT FIRST BEGOTTEN
because the church had been Resurrected physically yet.
if adam hadn't sinned he would have lived for ever not because he had
eternal life but because death hadn't entered into the world. [/quote] i have to follow you after going through your replies...God bless you sir.

pls., there is no need for arguement but trust God to open His eye to the truth in His word. shalom!