of all the most difficult arguments to win are 1. is god dead? 2. messi and ronaldo who is better

the number 2 is always a topic of argument but never has it made much diffrence as the question number 1. most at times xtians and atheist always are at loggerheads and although few atheist attack other religions but the most targeted is christianity, why? because christianity so much elaborates on the power of a supernatural being and backs up all claims that God is not of human creation and therefore nobody can understand him but most attimes atheist always leave most christians and many other religious debaters stranded because of the way of approach that they use...today am going to teach you how to win or kpatakpata na draw in that argument..
1. LOGIC COUNTERS LOGIC: in an argument when asked to prove that God exist the simplest way to counter is to ask the atheist to prove that God does not exist you might think its dumb but actually it works, atheist do not and will never have a proof that God does not exist but in an argument they keep bringing reasons as to why they think God does not exist either but they all keep bringing the same dumb excuse that ''we have never seen him, i have never touched him'

2. THE HIDDEN PERSONALITY: never approach an atheist with a particular pattern do not come as a christian or muslim or budhist, with that pattern they are usually forced to go into the field of science, where the argument becomes easy to win

3. KNOWLEDGE OF THE OPPONENT:the main points that most atheist use are evil, inability to see God and sometimes during critical cases theory of evolution.....but calm down my friends all the above are not proofs but mere reasons why one might doubt the existence of God, so before diving into an argument or debate simply get down ur points on all these ready

4. DONT BE THE FANATICS THERE: the best way to loose an argument against an atheist is using bible verses or quran qoutes in the argument instead use examples for the case of evil in the world donot go and start qouting what jesus said about the end times but instead use logic to battle logic example you can counter the question of ''why is there evil in the world if there is God?'' with '' the nigerian goverment have set out the constitution to the benefit of the people, the federal goverment knows what is best for the people but despite all the laws in the country people still kill and steal and people still rebel because the people are not forced to do things but have the will to choose either good or bad thing but when they do bad they are punished, so the problem is not evil but what do you do with your will''..hope you can see the example

5.SCIENCE VS RELIGION: in atheist debates there must be a throw back to science and the theory of evolution and this is where you can grip them..they say that all matter nd all things came from energy and its changes..ask them ''what caused the first change because if energy of the same type all are in the same enviroment there isnt soposed to be a change for example if all energy forms before creation was magnetic energy then it should have still remained as at that'', another good question that atheist cant have an answer to is ''if we where created from energy then why would energy create us in form of perishable things, why arent we like terminators and roots that all we need to do is feed and live?''....another question is ''if we sy God doesnt exist then since when did we know what was right and what was wrong?''.......


and finally know that before you start an argument against an atheist that after that argument both you and the atheist are thrown into periods of thought where you might consider being an atheist and the atheist might consider being a religious person

If you need to "win an argument" against an atheist, you need to know why he doesn't believe God.

Start from there. And please, don't shout and raise your or voice and insult him or tell him he is going to "burn in hell." You are not helping matters.

Be patient and understanding. They are just looking for reasons to convince them beyond all reasonable doubts that there is a God out there who cares about them and mankind as a whole.

MzNelly:
If you need to "win an argument" against an atheist, you need to know why he doesn't believe God.

Start from there. And please, don't shout and raise your or voice and insult him or tell him he is going to "burn in hell." You are not helping matters.

Be patient and understanding. They are just looking for reasons to convince them beyond all reasonable doubts that there is a God out there who cares about them and mankind as a whole.

exactly..everyone a round of applause for this guy make that number 6
THE GREATEST ATHEIST WHERE ALL ONCE GREAT CHRISTIANS AND EVEN 98% OF THEM ON NAIRALAND WERE CHRISTIANS BEFORE

MzNelly:
If you need to "win an argument" against an atheist, you need to know why he doesn't believe God.

Start from there. And please, don't shout and raise your or voice and insult him or tell him he is going to "burn in hell." You are not helping matters.

Be patient and understanding. They are just looking for reasons to convince them beyond all reasonable doubts that there is a God out there who cares about them and mankind as a whole.

You said it all bro. Deep inside the mind and spirit of an atheist is the burning desire to know God. They yearn to know the true and whole nature of God, and that is where the problem is! The simple logic is this; if one can never know all about anything, which is actually the case, then knowing all about God is a futile pursuit!

most of them are knuckle-heads sha.

This is what I got from you..

#1 when asked for positive evidence, ask for negative evidence e.g can you give me proof of Bigfoot being non-existent?

#2 hide your religion,never let them know you're a theist..

#3 when atheists list out why "god/gods" are implausible,they are not giving proofs only reasons e.g when davien says a five sided square is impossible(because by definition a square has four sides),he is only voicing an opinion...not giving proofs,you can still believe a square has five sides...

#4 ignore an atheist asking why evil prevails in sight of your mythology,rather shift the conversation to the nigerian government and why the constitution isn't perfect..

#5 when an atheist is holding you on the ropes of religion,throw the conversation to evolution and ask an unrelated question that neither you or he knows...

anthoniosp:
of all the most difficult arguments to win are 1. is god dead? 2. messi and ronaldo who is better

the number 2 is always a topic of argument but never has it made much diffrence as the question number 1. most at times xtians and atheist always are at loggerheads and although few atheist attack other religions but the most targeted is christianity, why? because christianity so much elaborates on the power of a supernatural being and backs up all claims that God is not of human creation and therefore nobody can understand him but most attimes atheist always leave most christians and many other religious debaters stranded because of the way of approach that they use...today am going to teach you how to win or kpatakpata na draw in that argument..
1. LOGIC COUNTERS LOGIC: in an argument when asked to prove that God exist the simplest way to counter is to ask the atheist to prove that God does not exist you might think its dumb but actually it works, atheist do not and will never have a proof that God does not exist but in an argument they keep bringing reasons as to why they think God does not exist either but they all keep bringing the same dumb excuse that ''we have never seen him, i have never touched him'

2. THE HIDDEN PERSONALITY: never approach an atheist with a particular pattern do not come as a christian or muslim or budhist, with that pattern they are usually forced to go into the field of science, where the argument becomes easy to win

3. KNOWLEDGE OF THE OPPONENT:the main points that most atheist use are evil, inability to see God and sometimes during critical cases theory of evolution.....but calm down my friends all the above are not proofs but mere reasons why one might doubt the existence of God, so before diving into an argument or debate simply get down ur points on all these ready

4. DONT BE THE FANATICS THERE: the best way to loose an argument against an atheist is using bible verses or quran qoutes in the argument instead use examples for the case of evil in the world donot go and start qouting what jesus said about the end times but instead use logic to battle logic example you can counter the question of ''why is there evil in the world if there is God?'' with '' the nigerian goverment have set out the constitution to the benefit of the people, the federal goverment knows what is best for the people but despite all the laws in the country people still kill and steal and people still rebel because the people are not forced to do things but have the will to choose either good or bad thing but when they do bad they are punished, so the problem is not evil but what do you do with your will''..hope you can see the example

5.SCIENCE VS RELIGION: in atheist debates there must be a throw back to science and the theory of evolution and this is where you can grip them..they say that all matter nd all things came from energy and its changes..ask them ''what caused the first change because if energy of the same type all are in the same enviroment there isnt soposed to be a change for example if all energy forms before creation was magnetic energy then it should have still remained as at that'', another good question that atheist cant have an answer to is ''if we where created from energy then why would energy create us in form of perishable things, why arent we like terminators and roots that all we need to do is feed and live?''....another question is ''if we sy God doesnt exist then since when did we know what was right and what was wrong?''.......


and finally know that before you start an argument against an atheist that after that argument both you and the atheist are thrown into periods of thought where you might consider being an atheist and the atheist might consider being a religious person

Atheism for me Is neo-Religion. Most especially christainity. They do not have any pattern of thought, no paradigms, no belief systems. Just to attack religion.

The only way I can believe in God is to see him or hear from him directly. If not, nothing can convince me.

I am not ready to 'believe' in God, i'd rather 'know' there is God.

An argument of his existence is only the first step to a reasonable doubt.

If there is a God, its a mockery to him to have his creatures doubt him. If his creations don't know or doubt his existence, then creator must b missing something.

anthoniosp:
of all the most difficult arguments to win are 1. is god dead? 2. messi and ronaldo who is better

the number 2 is always a topic of argument but never has it made much diffrence as the question number 1. most at times xtians and atheist always are at loggerheads and although few atheist attack other religions but the most targeted is christianity, why? because christianity so much elaborates on the power of a supernatural being and backs up all claims that God is not of human creation and therefore nobody can understand him but most attimes atheist always leave most christians and many other religious debaters stranded because of the way of approach that they use...today am going to teach you how to win or kpatakpata na draw in that argument..

Let's examine your atheist trumping template.

1. LOGIC COUNTERS LOGIC: in an argument when asked to prove that God exist the simplest way to counter is to ask the atheist to prove that God does not exist you might think its dumb but actually it works, atheist do not and will never have a proof that God does not exist but in an argument they keep bringing reasons as to why they think God does not exist either but they all keep bringing the same dumb excuse that ''we have never seen him, i have never touched him'

Yes, logic counters logic, but you cannot counter logic with a logical fallacy. What you have explained up there is a kind of logical fallacy known as Onus Probandi, that is, shifting the burden of proof. It is logically impossible to prove a negative (e.g. God does not exist), hence why the burden of proof is usually on the claimant (i.e. there is god)

2. THE HIDDEN PERSONALITY: never approach an atheist with a particular pattern do not come as a christian or muslim or budhist, with that pattern they are usually forced to go into the field of science, where the argument becomes easy to win

This is another kind of logical fallacy called the Equivocation Fallacy. If you want to argue for the existence of god or any other entity for that matter, you must first define what that entity is, otherwise, it is impossible to make your case. If you define god as an ant for instance, then of course, it makes no logical sense to disagree with the existence of god. But if you define god as an ant with trunk of an elephant, then your conception about god can be questioned. If you define god as 'some entity', you will be technically correct, and everybody would agree god exists, but the lack of precision makes your statement meaningless. Consider an examination scenario where you are asked for the answer to 1+1. If you say your answer is 'some number', you will be technically correct, but you'll never get any points for such an answer. Put simply, the meaningfulness of your claim (i.e. god exists) is directly proportional to the precision with which you definite the subject (what god are you referring to?)

3. KNOWLEDGE OF THE OPPONENT:the main points that most atheist use are evil, inability to see God and sometimes during critical cases theory of evolution.....but calm down my friends all the above are not proofs but mere reasons why one might doubt the existence of God, so before diving into an argument or debate simply get down ur points on all these ready

Yeah, okay

4. DONT BE THE FANATICS THERE: the best way to loose an argument against an atheist is using bible verses or quran qoutes in the argument instead use examples for the case of evil in the world donot go and start qouting what jesus said about the end times but instead use logic to battle logic example you can counter the question of ''why is there evil in the world if there is God?'' with '' the nigerian goverment have set out the constitution to the benefit of the people, the federal goverment knows what is best for the people but despite all the laws in the country people still kill and steal and people still rebel because the people are not forced to do things but have the will to choose either good or bad thing but when they do bad they are punished, so the problem is not evil but what do you do with your will''..hope you can see the example

Your advise is spot on, but your analogy is anything but logical. The Nigerian government is not all powerful, nor did it create (free)will. Unless you are prepared to concede that god is not all powerful. But first, you must define god (See my response to 2)

5.SCIENCE VS RELIGION: in atheist debates there must be a throw back to science and the theory of evolution and this is where you can grip them..they say that all matter nd all things came from energy and its changes..ask them ''what caused the first change because if energy of the same type all are in the same enviroment there isnt soposed to be a change for example if all energy forms before creation was magnetic energy then it should have still remained as at that'', another good question that atheist cant have an answer to is ''if we where created from energy then why would energy create us in form of perishable things, why arent we like terminators and roots that all we need to do is feed and live?''....another question is ''if we sy God doesnt exist then since when did we know what was right and what was wrong?''.......

Your petitions don't make any sense at all. Atheists do not claim to know/have all the answers. In fact, their level of knowledge varies drastically from person to person, and they disagree a lot, even on subjects within the realms of science. It's the obsessive compulsive need of religionists to impose an answer on everything that is the problem here.

and finally know that before you start an argument against an atheist that after that argument both you and the atheist are thrown into periods of thought where you might consider being an atheist and the atheist might consider being a religious person

What is your point?

1 - A religious need training to "win an argument" against an atheist

2 - An atheist do not need training to "win an argument" against a religious

You become intelligent to turn atheist and not becoming an atheist to get intelligent.....That's more credible and vital reason you can't win an argument over an atheist like me,Naaaahhh not even your pastor.

frank317:
The only way I can believe in God is to see him or hear from him directly. If not, nothing can convince me.

I am not ready to 'believe' in God, i'd rather 'know' there is God.

An argument of his existence is only the first step to a reasonable doubt.

If there is a God, its a mockery to him to have his creatures doubt him. If his creations don't know or doubt his existence, then creator must b missing something.

He speaks to you directly and shows himself to you everyday, but you obstinately shut your eyes and close your ears to him.

frank317:
The only way I can believe in God is to see him or hear from him directly. If not, nothing can convince me.

I only know you exist on Nairaland through your posts.

How am I sure you're the one who actually wrote those words?

Now for me to see and hear from you directly, your GHOST (your unknown person typing word on NL) must give me a direction either phone number or address of resident or someone who knows you better can do the work. All these are just the process I MUST FOLLOW before I could see and hear from you

Now do you think if you want to see and hear from God you won't pass through any process?

aaronson:
You become intelligent to turn atheist and not becoming an atheist to get intelligent.....That's more credible and vital reason you can't win an argument over an atheist like me,Naaaahhh not even your pastor.

So can you show us small of your intelligence here by bringing a topic you think no one could win over you?

Emusan:


So can you show us small of your intelligence here by bringing a topic you think no one could win over you?

Need I remind you intelligent people never admit being intelligent but arise to the occasion when need be then leaves when the ovation is the loudest!!!

aaronson:
Need I remind you intelligent people never admit being intelligent but arise to the occasion when need be then leaves when the ovation is the loudest!!!

So as you've reminded me then let this occasion arises so that you can get the loudest ovation here and stop attack a straw man.

paulGrundy:


He speaks to you directly and shows himself to you everyday, but you obstinately shut your eyes and close your ears to him.

No sir... I didn't hear God speak to me and so didn't shut my ears to anything. Did u hear God speak to me?

Is it possible to shut my ears to the voice of creator?

Emusan:


I only know you exist on Nairaland through your posts.

How am I sure you're the one who actually wrote those words?

Now for me to see and hear from you directly, your GHOST (your unknown person typing word on NL) must give me a direction either phone number or address of resident or someone who knows you better can do the work. All these are just the process I MUST FOLLOW before I could see and hear from you

Now do you think if you want to see and hear from God you won't pass through any process?

Lol... You described what my 'unknown person typing on Nairaland' can do before you reach me only to end up saying they are the process YOU must follow before you can see or hear from me. Stop contradicting yourself to prove a point.

Now if I don't make necessary and clearly defined effort for you to reach me... Then you have the right say I don't exist.

However... Do you realize we are talking about our creator? To me, if there is a creator.. I fantomize him to be way way way way way beyond all these processes.

AgentOfAllah:

Let's examine your atheist trumping template.


Yes, logic counters logic, but you cannot counter logic with a logical fallacy. What you have explained up there is a kind of logical fallacy known as Onus Probandi, that is, shifting the burden of proof. It is logically impossible to prove a negative (e.g. God does not exist), hence why the burden of proof is usually on the claimant (i.e. there is god)


This is another kind of logical fallacy called the Equivocation Fallacy. If you want to argue for the existence of god or any other entity for that matter, you must first define what that entity is, otherwise, it is impossible to make your case. If you define god as an ant for instance, then of course, it makes no logical sense to disagree with the existence of god. But if you define god as an ant with trunk of an elephant, then your conception about god can be questioned. If you define god as 'some entity', you will be technically correct, and everybody would agree god exists, but the lack of precision makes your statement meaningless. Consider an examination scenario where you are asked for the answer to 1+1. If you say your answer is 'some number', you will be technically correct, but you'll never get any points for such an answer. Put simply, the meaningfulness of your claim (i.e. god exists) is directly proportional to the precision with which you definite the subject (what god are you referring to?)


Yeah, okay


Your advise is spot on, but your analogy is anything but logical. The Nigerian government is not all powerful, nor did it create (free)will. Unless you are prepared to concede that god is not all powerful. But first, you must define god (See my response to 2)


Your petitions don't make any sense at all. Atheists do not claim to know/have all the answers. In fact, their level of knowledge varies drastically from person to person, and they disagree a lot, even on subjects within the realms of science. It's the obsessive compulsive need of religionists to impose an answer on everything that is the problem here.


What is your point?

Thumbs up man........nice logical reasoning

frank317:


Lol... You described what my 'unknown person typing on Nairaland' can do before you reach me only to end up saying they are the process YOU must follow before you can see or hear from me. Stop contradicting yourself to prove a point.

Now if I don't make necessary and clearly defined effort for you to reach me... Then you have the right say I don't exist.

However... Do you realize we are talking about our creator? To me, if there is a creator.. I fantomize him to be way way way way way beyond all these processes.

The simple question is, is there anything to do to have direct contact with this creator if the creator truly exists?

Emusan:


The simple question is, is there anything to do to have direct contact with this creator if the creator truly exists?

How do I know? since I have no direct contact with the creator.

frank317:


How do I know? since I have no direct contact with the creator.

Then do you think you can have a direct contact with the Creator without passing through any process?

Emusan:


Then do you think you can have a direct contact with the Creator without passing through any process?

What process? Abegoo, no creator gave me any process. Sorry, didn't I just tell you I have no contact with any creator?

frank317:

What process? Abegoo, no creator gave me any process. Sorry, didn't I just tell you I have no contact with any creator?

But you're the one who said until you see and hear from this creator that you will believe, then I asked if you want to see and hear from this creator, won't you do some certain things?

Emusan:


But you're the one who said until you see and hear from this creator that you will believe, then I asked if you want to see and hear from this creator, won't you do some certain things?

Lol...that's the problem, I don't know any certain thing to do to see or hear from the creator since I have never had any contact with him.
The creator should know better, therefore if he wants me to see him...I definitely will see or hear from him. For now I have seen or heard from no creator and there is nothing I can do about it.

frank317:

Lol...that's the problem, I don't know any certain thing to do to see or hear from the creator since I have never had any contact with him.

Your problem is the bolded part, you don't know or you don't want to follow the creator's process?

The creator should know better, therefore if he wants me to see him... I definitely will see or hear from him. For now I have seen or heard from no creator and there is nothing I can do about it.

The point is did you ever follow the process the creator has laid down for you to see and hear from him?

Emusan:


Your problem is the bolded part, you don't know or you don't want to follow the creator's process?

Stop dancing around. Who/what's the creator and what is this creator's "process"?

AgentOfAllah:
Stop dancing around. Who/what's the creator and what is this creator's "process"?

I should stop dancing around so that you can continue

Does that bolded part make any sense to you?

The first process is FAITH-the believe that the creator exist...do you have faith?

Why waste your time to debate with an atheist at the begining. 'For they hear, but understand not and they see indeed, but perceive not.'
Why is an atheist trying so hard to prove to you the non existence of what he/she thinks and believes doesnt exist at all. It doesnt make sense.

Emusan:


Your problem is the bolded part, you don't know or you don't want to follow the creator's process?

once again, what process. I never told you i know of any creator's process. It seems you are not reading my post. Did i tell you anything about the creator's process?

The point is did you ever follow the process the creator has laid down for you to see and hear from him?

again.... what process

Emusan:


I should stop dancing around so that you can continue

Does that bolded part make any sense to you?

The first process is[b] FAITH-the believe[/b] that the creator exist...do you have faith?

sorry, that is not any process.

I dont need faith to believe my mum gave birth to me. I know she gave birth to me. why will i need faith to believe in the creator

Emusan:


I should stop dancing around so that you can continue

Does that bolded part make any sense to you?

The first process is FAITH-the believe that the creator exist...do you have faith?

What is faith?