Every where in the world, it is becoming increasingly clear that schools are no longer what they used to be and consequently pupils/students are a far cry from what they used to be.

In yester years, when schools were indeed institute of learning, parents were always happy to send their errant or somewhat naughty children to boarding schools so as to teach them some well tailored manners. Schools were not just places you went to master your tenses or add up correctly. No. You also learnt to be cultured and well behaved. Teachers were respected and feared more than parents. To some extent, it would seem that parents gladly shelved the responsibility of scolding and training their kids to schools and teachers not to talk of seniors. But if this method produced the desired results was it so wrong? It would also appear that teachers then were just too happy to take on the extra responsibility of instilling discipline in their students.

These days, some schools gain the ‘cool’ logo because teachers are not allowed to discipline students. Students roam the street when they should be in school. There is absolutely no respect lost for their teachers. I am concentrating more on the public rather than private schools. I am well aware that some private schools manage to instil discipline and a lot of finesse into their students while some merely succeed in turning them into spoilt brats.

Unfortunately for the society that produces these uncultured students, their negative impacts are felt at the universities, in the work force and all the way to the top. Sometime recently in one of the Western countries, the lawmakers actually sat down to pass a bill forbidding parents from smacking their own children. What is the world coming to? Is it part of civilisation to spear the rod and spoil the child? If parents pass on the responsibility to teachers and teachers are hand tied not to punish or God forbid, beat erring students, what hope is there for us as a society and a race at large?

Now, the question is, do you subscribe to the Western views that children should not be punished in school? Do you honestly think that the students coming out of colleges everyday are fully baked and well armed to go into the Universities without succumbing to peer pressure to join cuts and such like?

Finally, what seems to be the way forward, the family or the institutions of learning?

Ra,

If the schools of yesterdays were so good at instilling discipline into the hearts and minds of young people, then why is our country so corrupt? Why have these 'disciplined' children turned out to be corrupt adults?

Is it possible that boarding school, by presenting students with a lot of unreasonable rules, only succeed in teaching young people how to be 'smart' and get around the rules?

Yeah yeah yeah, "schools and children of nowadays are bla bla bla, in the days past bla bla bla." As far as I know this is just a normal statement parents and adults always make that in their days things were much better than now. Your grandparents did the same, your parents too, you too now, and your children will. Are we then saying that the world is getting worse with each generation? If that's the case, I suppose we would have all perished!

The problems we are facing nowadays with schools and children is that the parents have abadoned their God-given responsibility to discipline their children to the school. The bible says "Spare the rod and spoil the child". No wonder we continue to have secret cults in our higher institutions of learnings. This is because most of the students did not receive the required home trainings.

In this our jet age, parents hardly have the time to be interested in what their kids are doing. All they do is think about how to make more money. A child that is left to himself/herself will definetly get spoilt. You cannot use money or gifts to substitute good moral and religious trainings for your children as some parents do.

There is nothing that can substitute godly training for children, and this has to be started at their early and formative age, and to be done by the parents. If the parents are hypocritical, the schildren will see into them and end up adopting their negative habits.

To answer, your question Ra, I don't subscribe to this so called western civilisation of not punishing children in schools. Let children be disciplined in schools, as in the olden days. But let their be a committee set up by the PTA to address any child abuse or act of wickedness that might be perpetrated by any teacher against any of the children.

If the schools of yesteryears were so wonderful and good at instilling discipline into the current generation of adults, then why is our country so corrupt? How come the "undisciplined" white boys and girls are able to run their countries better than we can in Africa in general? How come you don't have interracial killings breaking out from time to time in the US, for example.

seun:

If the schools of yesteryears were so wonderful and good at instilling discipline into the current generation of adults, then why is our country so corrupt. How come the "undisciplined" white boys and girls are able to run their countries better than we can in africa in general? How come you don't have interracial killings breaking out from time to time in the US, for example.

Seun, the answer to the question you just raised is very complex. The african nation is cursed. That is why we continue to have bad leadership, and ethnic and religious crisis. That is why we are bedevilled by so much problems.

This situation is clearly beyond the issue of discipling children at homes or in schools. The western world or the whites have their own maladies too, but the african case is beyond normal.

Interesting opinions so far, I don't even know where to start or what to even say. Maybe start on the issue on being cursed backwards, step by step. Is the African Continent cursed, or specifically Nigeria? Cursed by who? maybe the person that raised the issue on my motherland being cursed should tell me the answer because I am really anxious.

What makes you and I today in terms of character and definition of what is good and evil is the difference in training, experience together with the environmental factors around us while we were being brought up by our lovely parents. I personally didn't grow up under those stringent conditions that I totally classify "Child Abuse" and that does not make me a spoilt kid, or uncultured or unmannered whatever implies. But then again when you talk about sparing the rod, it does not mean beating up a kid for nothing ? thinking you are training him or her. it doesn't work. we just end up creating a sense of hatred and pain in the children.

They end up growing up in need for revenge to the pain they underwent during their development. Infact Seun's question, gives us a lot to think about. The truth is we believe so much in our orthodox system and its really ruining us, and would continue to ruin us if we continue to implement them.

Things like corruption for example? how does it develop. I think its from "greed" and where does "greed" comes from ? well we really need to address the problem right from the source to the origin. Referring to spiritual aspect is just uncalled for . Lets be real.

The discussion about whether or not Africa is cursed is continued at:
Is Africa cursed (spiritually)?

Interesting turn and twist to this thread really, although I must say we seem to have missed the point here. Seun, if the leaders who are admittedly products of the yester years more than anyone else are this greedy and void of any sense of remorse, what this present generation is capable of is indeed unthinkable, trust me.

Good point as it is, it veers away from the crux of the matter. Let us shift our focus from the minority in power and re-focus on the larger population; our own parents, uncles, aunts and cousins. Even to people who are light years older. The quality of education (chukka blocked as it is now) is a far cry from what it was. There exists no discipline on whatever level, parents expect teachers to tutor their children both academically and morally while teachers are far too busy cutting corners in endless attempts to make ends properly meet to care about what students are getting up to. I simply wanted to know if I'm too harsh in my assertion that parents ought to take more notice of who with and where their children 'hang out ', what comes out of their mouth, how they respect other people and expect it in return. Our schools on the other hand should be made aware of how low they've dropped in their duties to educate students and guide them in the right path.

I said it earlier but it is so important that it bears repetition, should this present generation by any chance gain access into power, it might not be long before there exists a huge vacuum where before there existed a great nation known as Nigeria.

Should parents know what their children are up to? Yes!

Should parents be harsh, authoritative 'disciplinarians'? No!

Should parents spend more time with their children? Yes, yes, yes!

Should parents spend all the time criticizing and punishing their children and regularly deny them the freedoms and pleasures of childhood in an effort to make them turn out right? No, no, no!

I am more concerned that parents today (maybe Lagos parents!) are so out of touch with their children that even when they decide to spend time with their children the children are not happy. Parents cannot make up for time spent away from children by being extra strict (i.e. harsh) when they are around. it does not work that way.

And the schools, institutions of lower and higher earning, what duty of care, if any, do they owe their students?

The responsibility of any business is to meet and try to exceed the expectations of its customers. So the responsibility of a school is simply: to meet and try to exceed the parents' expectations - or return their money!

Now the issue of what parents can rightfully delegate to a third party is more complex ...

If that suggestion was to be taken up, I'm afraid many schools will have to turn their classrooms into other business ventures as they are bound to refund parents. I am of the strong opinion that the schools are not doing half as much as they ought to be doing with and for students these days. I repeat that I am not talking about priviledged schools where parents pay through their noses and had better get more than their expectations, but more about public schools. Nigeria is bound to run into even deeper waters if nothing is done about the quality (I cringe to use that word) of students being produced and graduated from secondary schools as well as higer institutions.

I think public schools are a joke., and it's not only in Nigeria. You get what you pay for. These days even 'market women' send their children to private schools.

The problem is that, as a parent, there is nothing you can do to hold officials of the school accountable. If you withdraw your child in protest, the space simply goes to the next available child. they lose nothing. Ra, I'm afraid that there is nothing that can be done to solve the problem.

Perhaps the public schools should be sold off one at a time to enterprising businessmen. Government should then sponsor research into ways to reduce the cost of running schools in Nigeria, so that they will be able to charge lower school fees.

If Goverment doesn't do it, enterprising young men or corporate bodies eventually will.

Schools are not what they were. In the past, people learned just for the satisfaction that they were knowledgable. But now education is the way to ensure that at least you have got a good future. (not guaranted though). And exams I think are a waste of time.

We should be allowed to do more practical work than just merely studing from books. That is really boring! I think we all will learn more if we apply what we learned to professional world. I mean most of what we learned in school we hardly apply them when we start working ...

seun:

Should parents know what their children are up to?  Yes!

Should parents be harsh, authoritative 'disciplinarians'? No!

Should parents spend more time with their children? Yes, yes, yes!

Should parents spend all the time criticizing and punishing their children and regularly deny them the freedoms and pleasures of childhood in an effort to make them turn out right? No, no, no!

I am more concerned that parents today (maybe Lagos parents!) are so out of touch with their children that even when they decide to spend time with their children the children are not happy.  Parents cannot make up for time spent away from children by being extra strict (I.e. harsh) when they are around.  it does not work that way.

I believe you should discipline your kids, why? because its character-forming. If you grew up in a family where you were caned for errors or bad behaviour it would become clear to you after some time that its for your own good and after some time it becomes second nature. The inherent politeness or discipline in african kids is because parents take time to discipline their kids.

Agreed parents have not wised up to the fact that they need to be closer to their kids as this would reduce uneccessary punishment. This is because fathers still see themselves as breadwinners and taskmasters/disciplinarians and not as nurturers.

in schools, i believe corporal punishement should be made an article of law but a punishment journal might be instituted in schools for logging punishments and the degree of and reason for the punishment. this would reduce victimisation due to the fact that teachers know there is a written record (this might be kept by specially appointed class monitors). It would reduce the hedonism and unruly behaviour that is sweeping the nation.

My personal opinion is that corporal punishment is a very primitive way to discipline a child. It is effective on the short term, which makes the parent blind to the need to use methods of discipline that work on the long term.

Many people think they are teching their children to be upright, but all they are teaching their children is that might is right. "I have the power, so if you do something I don't like I will inflict pain on you". Might is right, so if I make a mistake nothing happens, but if you make the same mistake and I catch you, you are in deep trouble. Might is right, and that is why when there is any problem our youths pick up cutlasses and start making bonfires and cutting heads. Because might is right.

Are you saying that Charles Taylor wasn't beaten as a little kid? What about Sanni Abacha? The soldiers working with him? Were the perpetrators of our civil war not beaten as children? What about those who are corrupt among our politicians?

Africans are fond of defending elements of their culture that clearly aren't working for them. With all the child-abuse that takes place in this country, we are more corrupt than "morally bankrupt" countries like the United State with their "evil" gay rights "heinous crimes" against unborn children.

Sorry, beating is not the way to train a child. It is a way to harden a child. We have a lot of hardened people in this country, and I am tired of it. I want us to have more people with tender, gentle hearts.

Seun:

If the schools of yesteryears were so wonderful and good at instilling discipline into the current generation of adults, then why is our country so corrupt? How come the "undisciplined" white boys and girls are able to run their countries better than we can in Africa in general? How come you don't have interracial killings breaking out from time to time in the US, for example.

Seun:

If the schools of yesteryears were so wonderful and good at instilling discipline into the current generation of adults, then why is our country so corrupt? How come the "undisciplined" white boys and girls are able to run their countries better than we can in Africa in general? How come you don't have interracial killings breaking out from time to time in the US, for example.

Huh? Maybe you forgot about ethnic cleansing in serbia and former yugoslavia. Not to mention the current issues going on in the eurasian countries that resemble african problems

Seun:

My personal opinion is that corporal punishment is a very primitive way to discipline a child. It [I]is[/I] effective on the short term, which makes the parent blind to the need to use methods of discipline that work on the long term.

Many people think they are teching their children to be upright, but all they are teaching their children is that might is right. "I have the power, so if you do something I don't like I will inflict pain on you". Might is right, so if I make a mistake nothing happens, but if you make the same mistake and I catch you, you are in deep trouble. Might is right, and that is why when there is any problem our youths pick up cutlasses and start making bonfires and cutting heads. Because might is right.

Are you saying that Charles Taylor wasn't beaten as a little kid? What about Sanni Abacha? The soldiers working with him? Were the perpetrators of our civil war not beaten as children? What about those who are corrupt among our politicians?

Africans are fond of defending elements of their culture that clearly aren't working for them. With all the child-abuse that takes place in this country, we are more corrupt than "morally bankrupt" countries like the United State with their "evil" gay rights "heinous crimes" against unborn children.

Sorry, beating is not the way to train a child. It is a way to harden a child. We have a lot of hardened people in this country, and I am tired of it. I want us to have more people with tender, gentle hearts.

Corporal punishment is legal in many states in the USA. You paint too saintly a picture of the states. The southern states condone corporal punishment, yet they are the strongest and richest country on earth

Firstly, I don't subscribe to the story about Nigeria or Africa being cursed.
It's all boulderdash . We just didn't develop as quickly as Europe and the US in the areas that matter today(namely Science and Technology). We are a confused people, since the days of slave trade, and we need more than a GREAT LEADER to lead us out of the wilderness. We need to WANT to leave the wilderness.
Secondly, our "Institutions of Learning" are nothing more than "Institutions of Getting Certificates". More teachers are unconcerned about developing the "Leaders of tommorrow", and concerned about extra-curricular salary generating ventures.
Thirdly, Africans as a whole will find it really hard to escape the above two positions, 'because we don't actually have the inner undefinable quality in Europeans, called PATRIOTISM. We had no choice over the creation of our countries, and as such, we don't really really see why the country's interests supercedes our personal interests.

Or so I think .... 

All about education is now something else,especially in this our country Nigeria.We are just managing and asking GOD to come to our aid.

Would you still support corporal punishment?