For many centuries women have not been allowed to lead or to teach in churches based in part upon what God supposedly stated in 1 Corinthians 14:34 and 35.

1 Corinthians 14:34 and 35 (NASB)
(34) Let the women keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but let them subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
(35) And if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

There is good evidence that these two verses were not part of Paul’s original writing, but were added to the text by scribes or copyists. It is never desirable to change Christian practice by omitting a verse of the Bible. Nevertheless, it is honest to recognize that occasionally the biblical text was changed, and in this case there are a number of pieces of evidence that certainly seem to warrant removing these verses that say women should be silent in the church. Before we examine those, however, it must be admitted that if these verses are an addition to the Greek text, it would have been an early addition, because the verses appear in the Greek manuscripts of 1 Corinthians.

Please Read the rest Here

mcfynest:
Women are to keep quiet in church excrpt when permmitted to talk by their husbands and singles should nt talk unless the overseer instructs them to, this will bring orderliness, that is why it is advisable for women to be children sunday school teachers

frosbel:


A Man made law from an ancient era when Men where in control of everything. It is not a scriptural injunction.

frosbel:
For many centuries women have not been allowed to lead or to teach in churches based in part upon what God supposedly stated in 1 Corinthians 14:34 and 35.

1 Corinthians 14:34 and 35 (NASB)
(34) Let the women keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but let them subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
(35) And if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

There is good evidence that these two verses were not part of Paul’s original writing, but were added to the text by scribes or copyists. It is never desirable to change Christian practice by omitting a verse of the Bible. Nevertheless, it is honest to recognize that occasionally the biblical text was changed, and in this case there are a number of pieces of evidence that certainly seem to warrant removing these verses that say women should be silent in the church. Before we examine those, however, it must be admitted that if these verses are an addition to the Greek text, it would have been an early addition, because the verses appear in the Greek manuscripts of 1 Corinthians.

Please Read the rest
http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/should-women-be-silent-in-the-church-a-biblical-study-of-1-corinthians-1434-and-35


"How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?" - Jeremiah 8:8

esere826:
Hi frosbel

Nice question, I also read the link you provided. This is my opinion:

It is very possible that Paul did say that women should not speak in church.
Unlike what the article in the link says, the text does flow perfectly.
It talks about confusion and disorder and tries to manage this by limiting the amount of outspoken voices in a congregation.

If my assumption is correct, then the challenge would be to answer this question: "was what Paul said the word of God?"

For those that hold literarily tight to the bible. Their answer would be "yes, afterall, all scriptures are God-breathed"
For those that allow some loose ends, Pauls conclusion to his statement would make them have no choice than to agree that it was the word of God. For paul says: "If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment."
Some will just form ignoring and skip that chapter about women silence in church.

I on my part think that Paul was not correct if indeed he said both.
In my opinion (still assuming he said both) he was either
1) giving a command from God which God meant for that time
or
2) making reference to earlier Jewish traditions (considered as God's commandment) of male -female separation in synangogue activities
or
3) he was mis-representing God

Now, I'll push further.
If it was (3), then I will still be able to understand and empathise with him.
In our modern day, we have folks who are close to God, or who like to think that they are closer to God than others.
What I have observed is that these folks do a lot of mis representation of God. They say what God says, and add theirs
and then sum up everything as coming from God

But why would they mis-represent God?
It is understandable.
I doubt that many times we who call ourselves Christians have actually heard God speak in plain human-like language
my experience is that he tends to speak in inprints
when you receive that imprint you then try to translate it into language
in translating it, you use your words which are many times coloured by your personality, and values
in fact (and typical of any oral transfer of information) the time gap between the imprint and when you say it can give enough room for the story to blossom beyond what was originally said except you write it down immediately

Despite this flaw in the communication process,
what you end up saying does carry the nucleus of the initial message although the peripherals might have been distorted
For example, I suspect that the message of tithing, first fruits etc have been seriously distorted.
however the nucleus of still remains the same. That we should make finance available for the Church to spend in achieving the goals of Christ

Still on the matter of Paul, my conclusion is that if indeed it was number (3) that happened
it did not shift from the original message/command which was that:
....there should be some order in church.

frosbel:

"How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?" - Jeremiah 8:8

esere826:
[size=5pt]BabaGnoni

Yours is another great point of view with regards to Paul speaking sarcastically
and it is possible.

Many times, the bible somehow does not easily capture the emotional undertones behind statements made
I noticed such gaps with some of Jesus comments in the new testament which did not make sense to me previously
however, when I reviewed them after giving Jesus more human emotional attributes, they began to make more sense to me.

but then again BabaGnoni
Frosbel is not far from your point either
He concludes that ancient lying scribes made the changes
while you suggest that modern unskilled scribes were not able to properly transcribe the message

the meeting point is that there is possibly a misrepresentation of what Paul said in this verse[/size]

esere826:
...Frosbel is not far from your point either
He concludes that ancient lying scribes made the changes
while you suggest that modern unskilled scribes were not able to properly transcribe the message

the meeting point is that there is possibly a misrepresentation of what Paul said in this verse

BabaGnoni:


....................................
PS: esere826 you sabi watch a 26 minutes long video wherever you are?

mcfynest:


But it is found in the holy books?

frosbel:



"How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?" - Jeremiah 8:8

joseph1832:
If its bad misrepresentation or the fault of the copyist or interpreter like many of you said, won't all this put the whole Bible in 'skepticism'. I mean why misinterpret one verse when you can misinterpret the whole Bible?.

frosbel:

esere826:

A) On my own part, I think there are at least two sets of people when it comes to study.
-The first set accepts anything that comes to them and build their knowledge base within this.
-The 2nd set challenge assumptions, and look out for gaps. The goal is not to destroy the mineral being mined, but to chip at the rough edges and dirt until the diamond within glitters really good.

esere826:
As the 2nd set of studiers improve a body of knowledge, they pass it on to the 1st set who finally accept it as the defacto guide book.
Every season, every age, scholars are busy working on the bible which they present in the form of versions such as NIV, KJV etc

We are thus 2 different sets of people. The first which are in majority don't bother themselves with suspicions
The 2nd which are a small minority are curious and suspicious of many things and seek to find answers. Some end up becoming atheists, others become a different breed of Christians from the mainstream.

esere826:
I should be able to

BabaGnoni:

^^^
I asked because I know you once relocated and wasn't sure where exactly you are right now

I will provide a video which after watching it, I'll like to know what you thought of it

I will also provide a transcript of the video
but to be honest reading the transcript without actually watching the video, wouldn't give the information provided in the video any justice at all, as one can't read from the transcript, as demonstrated in the video, the tones Paul allegedly used when he wrote the letter to the set of "aggrieved" Corinthians

Anyways, watch out for the video & transcript, as I am still on the road, driving. I will post both as soon as I am back indoors

mmsen:
So the Bible is not the unerring word of god?

Because the Bible is very consistent when it comes to the standing of women:

Genesis 3:16 - "A woman shall be ruled by her husband"

Exodus 21:7 - "Women can be sold"

1 Cor. 11:7 -"For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man."

And let us not forget this prize verse:

1 Cor, 7:1 - "It is good for man to have nothing to do with a woman"

Famous theologians such as Martin Luther subscribed to the notion that women were inferior, writing -
"boys are good crops, girls are weeds".
AND "If women become tired or even die, that does not matter. Let them die in childbirth, that is why they are there."

This is the nature of xtianity, like it or not

johnydon22:
Alright now most of you all are blaming paul,

johnydon22:
i thought ALL scriptures are breathed word of god...

johnydon22:
Or is it that you choose when its convenient enough for you to claim god did it or blame the writer.. "Common christians decide already"

BabaGnoni:

... grabbing at straws

mmsen:
Those are very clear and concise quotes lifted straight from the Bible or the writings of one of the best respected Protestant theologians.

esere826:
yeah, i'm back to an internet friendly zone ooo

Thanks

EvilBrain1:
Saint Paul was a misogynist. It is very clear in all his writings. He had a very low opinion of women which is why he wrote what he wrote.

It is ridiculous to try and rehabilitate him by claiming that the parts of his letters you don't happen to like weren't written by him.
You'll need pretty strong evidence for that and that evidence simply does not exist.
While he almost certainly didn't write 1st and 2nd Timothy and he might not have written Ephesians, the 2 letters to the Corinthians are definitely his and the misogyny in them is perfectly in line with the pseudoepigraphical letters.

Even when you remove all the likely forged stuff from the new testament there's still plenty of bigotry left.
In fact, the forged stuff was included in the canon precisely because it was in line with the spirit of the rest of the books.
The christian message is mainly one of intolerance to other religions, groups and lifestyles. And women were not spared.

h t t p://youtu.be/A1JIKOMQV5A

There is good evidence that these two verses were not part of Paul’s original writing, but were added to the text by scribes or copyists. It is never desirable to change Christian practice by omitting a verse of the Bible. Nevertheless, it is honest to recognize that occasionally the biblical text was changed, and in this case there are a number of pieces of evidence that certainly seem to warrant removing these verses that say women should be silent in the church. Before we examine those, however, it must be admitted that if these verses are an addition to the Greek text, it would have been an early addition, because the verses appear in the Greek manuscripts of 1 Corinthians.

frosbel:

"How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?" - Jeremiah 8:8