A frnd of My Dad who is a Religion Philosopher was arguing with my Dad n some of their frnds that being an Atheist does not mean"anything goes"- infact, quite the opposite. What do you think? Can Morality be Independent of GOD? Can people who don't believe in GOD still be as"Good" as those who do? What govern your own decision about whether and how to act Ethically?

I personally gather that many people believe that Atheism implies Nihilism- that rejecting GOD means rejecting Morality. A person who denies GOD, they reason must be, if not actively Evil, at least indifferent to considerations of Right n Wrong.

Now to my questions Nairalander's.
(1) Where does Morality come from?
(2) What guides your thinking about how to act?
(3) Do you choose to act Morally mostly because of the promise of Reward or the threat of Punishment- from GOD or from some other Authority. Do you agree contrary to what some believe, living your life ethically is even more important if you are an Atheist, since if you do something Morally Reprehensible there is no God to forgive you, and the only value your life has is the Choices you make?

Macof, Sukkot, Tallesty, Mizmycoli, Ymodulus, Seun, Xcapizt, pastorkun, Kay17, Joseph1013, Virginfinder, Truthman2012, Malvisguy212. Come oh!!! Abeg come contribute!!!

Acekidc4:

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Now to my questions Nairalander's.
(1)Where does Morality comes from?

Our morality comes from our humanity, by contrasting your feelings to that of others you will learn to be good towards all... The human nature is moral and good.

Acekidc4:

(2)What guides your thinking about how to act?

Our intellect guides our thinking and empathy guides our act... Morality do not depend on any book or creed. Those books too are also a product of humans and greatly influenced by their culture.
e.g- You do not need to rush and check in the bible or koran to check if stealing is good or bad, You know taking someone else's thing is not moral.

You do not need the bible or koran to tell you slavery and enslaving is bad even though both clearly never forbids it infact the two books endorsed it in a way.
So our morality stems from our humanity.. our intellect and empathy.

Acekidc4:

(3)Do you choose to act Morally mostly because of the promise of Reward or the threat of Punishment- from GOD or from some other Authority

Like i have always tried to tell theists.. Goodness doesnt depend on reward or punishment.
If you are good because of the promise of heaven, you are only good because you want reward thereby you are only good for your own gain at the end.. We call it "Selfishness" and is that real goodness?

If you are good because of the threat of hell, you are only good because you fear hell therefore you are only good for you own gain at the end saving your own skin...its called "Selfishness" is that real goodness?

I that try to be good without expecting any reward or hoping to escape punishment and you that is good cus of reward or fear, Who really is moral?

Real goodness entails being good because you know it is right and want good to happen. cus you believe the earth and humans deserve goodness.

Acekidc4:

. Do you agree contrary to what some believe, living your life ethically is even more important if you are an Atheist, since if you do something Morally Reprehensible there is no God to forgive you, and the only value your life has is the Choices you make?

The idea of God was brought to make people not to accept responsible for their actions.
I am responsible for all my actions be it good or bad..

And this issue of forgiveness is that not a deceptive concept to rid people of their guilt?
Take for instance i stole from you, i regret my actions and come back to seek your forgiveness and return the item and you forgive thereby you already cleared your mind of it and it doesnt hurt anymore cus you already forgave me cus i came to you.

I stole from you, i regret my actions then i go to my room and mutter some prayers, come and out and say i am forgiven when you that i took your item is still hurting and doesnt even know i did it.

Which is forgiveness and which is moral?

We do not need forgiveness from any deity or gods we only need forgiveness from ourselves and one another..

Acekidc4:

Macof, Sukkot, Tallesty, Mizmycoli, Ymodulus, Seun, Xcapizt, pastorkun, Kay17. Come oh!!! Abeg come contribute!!!

Come and tender your own opinion on this

Acekidc4:
A frnd of My Dad who is a Religion Philosopher was arguing with my Dad n some of their frnds that being an Atheist does not mean"anything goes"- infact, quite the opposite. What do you think? Can Morality be Independent of GOD? Can people who don't believe in GOD still be as"Good" as those who do? What govern your own decision about whether and how to act Ethically?

I personally gather that many people believe that Atheism implies Nihilism- that rejecting GOD means rejecting Morality. A person who denies GOD, they reason must be, if not actively Evil, at least indifferent to considerations of Right n Wrong.

Now to my questions Nairalander's.
(1)Where does Morality comes from?
(2)What guides your thinking about how to act?
(3)Do you choose to act Morally mostly because of the promise of Reward or the threat of Punishment- from GOD or from some other Authority. Do you agree contrary to what some believe, living your life ethically is even more important if you are an Atheist, since if you do something Morally Reprehensible there is no God to forgive you, and the only value your life has is the Choices you make?

Macof, Sukkot, Tallesty, Mizmycoli, Ymodulus, Seun, Xcapizt, pastorkun, Kay17. Come oh!!! Abeg come contribute!!!

My bros i hail. trust all is well. can you be good without God ? yes you can be good without God. everyman is created with an instinct of what is good and bad. what the bible does is reinforce what is already in you - because some people lose that instinct due to various reasons like desperation, or even when you are drunk or on drugs. so the bible is just a palpable guide. however even if you are very good without getting closer to God, it will help you somewhat but not too much because to be approved by God you have to study the word

revelation 1 vs 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

2 timothy 2 vs 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God

hosea 4 vs 6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me:

so basically when it comes to the time of rewarding those who drew closer to God by studying his words ? you will not get any rewards. secondly is that you dont have the protection of God so even while you are doing good, anything bad can happen to you.

however the only benefit in doing good if you dont believe in God is that the punishment for your sins will be very small. because punishment is based on how much sin you commit.

galatians 6 vs 7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

colosians 3 vs 25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

sukkot:
My bros i hail. trust all is well. can you be good without God ? yes you can be good without God. everyman is created with an instinct of what is good and bad. what the bible does is reinforce what is already in you - because some people lose that instinct due to various reasons like desperation, or even when you are drunk or on drugs. so the bible is just a palpable guide. however even if you are very good without getting closer to God, it will help you somewhat but not too much because to be approved by God you have to study the word

revelation 1 vs 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

2 timothy 2 vs 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God

hosea 4 vs 6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me:

so basically when it comes to the time of rewarding those who drew closer to God by studying his words ? you will not get any rewards. secondly is that you dont have the protection of God so even while you are doing good, anything bad can happen to you.

however the only benefit in doing good if you dont believe in God is that the punishment for your sins will be very small. because punishment is based on how much sin you commit.

galatians 6 vs 7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

colosians 3 vs 25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

Obadizzle!!

You don land Motherland??

Yes you can!

Religion endorsed slavery: morality wiped it out of existence.

Religion endorsed polygamy: morality is gradually taking it into extinction.

sukkot:
My bros i hail. trust all is well. can you be good without God ? yes you can be good without God. everyman is created with an instinct of what is good and bad. what the bible does is reinforce what is already in you - because some people lose that instinct due to various reasons like desperation, or even when you are drunk or on drugs. so the bible is just a palpable guide. however even if you are very good without getting closer to God, it will help you somewhat but not too much because to be approved by God you have to study the word

revelation 1 vs 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

2 timothy 2 vs 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God

hosea 4 vs 6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me:

so basically when it comes to the time of rewarding those who drew closer to God by studying his words ? you will not get any rewards. secondly is that you dont have the protection of God so even while you are doing good, anything bad can happen to you.

however the only benefit in doing good if you dont believe in God is that the punishment for your sins will be very small. because punishment is based on how much sin you commit.

galatians 6 vs 7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

colosians 3 vs 25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

So this fella is still alive? I thunk you had been taken away like brother Enoch.

i sincerely do not fully understand why anybody would want to be literally good for nothing.

I am good without obligation. You're good for fear of damnation. So yes i am good without god

Ishilove:

Obadizzle!!

You don land Motherland??

Madam contribute 4 d Mata na!!

To ensure people do good things is sort of why religion was created in the first place. I for one don’t think people need “God” in their lives to live morally, but a lot of people do.It helps instill people with a sense of good, and for that it’s appropriate. However, to think that without "God" we would have no morals is obviously not true. As long as the "God" ideology and fear of "hell fire" is helping to put many of people in check,It's all good.

Religion is waning now,we need another form of mind control to maintain a balanced society.

Image123:
i sincerely do not fully understand why anybody would want to be literally good for nothing.

So u re implying dat u should be good 4 sumtin rite!! So wich means b4 I do good to any1 I must first consider sum kind of rewards waiting 4 me after dat right?

Image123:
i sincerely do not fully understand why anybody would want to be literally good for nothing.

My oga it is called being good for goodness sake

Acekidc4:


So u re implying dat u should be good 4 sumtin rite!! So wich means b4 I do good to any1 I must first consider sum kind of rewards waiting 4 me after dat right?

refer him to my first reply to you on this thread

ifeness:
To ensure people do good things is sort of why religion was created in the first place. I for one don’t think people need “God” in their lives to live morally, but a lot of people do.It helps instill people with a sense of good, and for that it’s appropriate. However, to think that without "God" we would have no morals is obviously not true. As long as the "God" ideology and fear of "hell fire" is helping to put many of people in check,It's all good.

Religion is waning now,we need another form of mind control to maintain a balanced society.

I don't think dere can be anymore form of mind control again in dis world dat we re apart frm Religion!! Do u agree?

Acekidc4:


I don't kind dere can be anymore form of mind control again in dis world dat we re apart frm Religion!! Do u agree?

For thousands of years its been working. Christianity is only 2000 years old,I'm sure another messiah will be manufactured soon. Jesus coming back to take faithful believers to Paradise has been one of the best mind controls in the history of the planet.

Acekidc4:


So u re implying dat u should be good 4 sumtin rite!! So wich means b4 I do good to any1 I must first consider sum kind of rewards waiting 4 me after dat right?

Are you good for nothing? Do you prefer to be good for nothing? Why should one be good for nothing?

Image123:

Are you good for nothing? Do you prefer to be good for nothing? Why should one be good for nothing?

let me quote my self Like i have always tried to tell theists.. Goodness doesnt depend on reward
or punishment.
If you are good because of the promise of heaven, you are only good
because you want reward thereby you are only good for your own gain at
the end.. We call it "Selfishness" and is that real goodness?
If you are good because of the threat of hell, you are only good because
you fear hell therefore you are only good for you own gain at the end saving
your own skin...its called "Selfishness" is that real goodness?
I that try to be good without expecting any reward or hoping to escape
punishment and you that is good cus of reward or fear, Who really is moral?
Real goodness entails being good because you know it is right and want
good to happen. cus you believe the earth and humans deserve goodness.
BE GOOD FOR GOODNESS SAKE, that is the essence of real goodness

Yes I agree with you John. Being good for humanity sake is the ultimate.

johnydon22:

My oga it is called being good for goodness sake

What is goodness sake?

johnydon22:


Our morality comes from our humanity, by contrasting your feelings to that of others you will learn to be good towards all... The human nature is moral and good.

Oh! that is why the world is filled with good people.
But wait the world is not filled with good people...

My friend you can't say human nature is good but the other brother is more correct:

sukkot:
. everyman is created with an instinct of what is good and bad.

Yes everybody instinctively knows what is good and bad (as a result of Adam eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil).

But the problem is human do not have the instincts to actually do good. We have the knowledge but the ability to do good is lacking so we struggle and push ourselves to always to good. And religion has help by providing rewards and punishment that will motivate us to do good. But this (religion) is also not the solution to the problem.

Our knowledge of good makes us desire to do good but we always fail because we lack the life (the power or ability) to always do good. It is like a Chicken trying to fly like an eagle. It may succeed in flying very high but it can never fly like a eagle

We humans lack what it takes to truly be good. Do not misunderstand me, I am not saying we can not be good but we can't truly be good. Just as a chicken could fly but it can never fly like an eagle.

I have come to realize that every good a person do their is always a selfish motive behind it even when it comes to empathy (trust me I study psychology). Sometimes we do go just to make ourselves feel good about ourselves or to boost our ego and for the sake of self presentation ( make people see us as good people).

We do not do good because it is who we are but their is always a selfish motive behind every good we do. This is because being good is not human nature, we only have the knowledge of good and lack the life to always do it.

The solution is Christ, for he is the life. With Christ in you, you have the ability to always be good. But just like an eagle learn to fly we also need to learn to live by the life of Christ. This learning is different from gathering knowledge of good but it is to help us tap into the life of God in us.

God alone is good. He alone is expert in doing good by living by His life we have the ability to always be good.

The problem is that Christianity have because a religion, it had chosen the wisdom of men, it only knows how to give knowledge and it doesn't know how to give life and teach people to live by that life.

I do good not because of reward or punishment but because it is the only thing I know how to do, it is who I am. This is how it is suppose to be.

Image123:

Are you good for nothing? Do you prefer to be good for nothing? Why should one be good for nothing?

Yes I can be good 4 notin in return!! Why can't I be good toward my fellow human being without expecting some kind of Rewards in return!!

cold:
I am good without obligation. You're good for fear of damnation. So yes i am good without god

There is none good, no, not one.

ifeness:


For thousands of years its been working. Christianity is only 2000 years old,I'm sure another messiah will be manufactured soon. Jesus coming back to take faithful believers to Paradise has been one of the best mind controls in the history of the planet.

Yes I might b forced 2 agree with u but I really doubt dat happening!!

Acekidc4:


Yes I can be good 4 notin in return!! Why can't I be good toward my fellow human being without expecting some kind of Rewards in return!!

Lol, i didn't mention rewards. i'm good because of God, not because of rewards or punishment. Nonetheless, is it wrong to be good for something? Who made it wrong if so?

Image123:

Lol, i didn't mention rewards. i'm good because of God, not because of rewards or punishment. Nonetheless, is it wrong to be good for something? Who made it wrong if so?

Am not saying it is wrong to be good 4 sumtin, but is it Mandatory? And Mind u d Good we re refering to here is*GOOD DEEDS* pls take note.

Hiswordxray:

Oh! that is why the world is filled with good people.
But wait the world is not filled with good people...

My friend you can't say human nature is good but the other brother is more correct:

Yes everybody instinctively knows what is good and bad
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Oh yes exactly the point i needed pass across... We are all capable of great evil and great good.. it is the choices we make that determines what we do.

Take me for example ; I rape, I steal, I kill, I rob as much i as i want and the much i want is 0 (zero).

Acekidc4:


Yes I might b forced 2 agree with u but I really doubt dat happening!!

It won't happen certainly. Now the kids are grown,our destiny is in our hands now. Even if there are "Gods" they will only watch us destroy or preserve ourselves from a distance.

Acekidc4:


Am not saying it is wrong to be good 4 sumtin, but is it Mandatory? And Mind u d Good we re refering to here is*GOOD DEEDS* pls take note.

Okay, so nothing wrong with being good for God's sake. Very good. It makes more sense to be good for something than to be good for nothing.

Image123:

Okay, so nothing wrong with being good for God's sake. Very good. It makes more sense to be good for something than to be good for nothing.

Lol even if that something is just an idea? Its still same as being good for nothing...

Mind you were talking about reward and punishment tho

Image123:
i sincerely do not fully understand why anybody would want to be literally good for nothing.

Of course you do not understand. Your mind has been conditioned to do good for the sake of a reward for far too long. However, you need to know that such goodness is actually selfishness as an earlier poster has rightly pointed. Consider a man who feeds and houses the homeless because he feels it's the right thing to do, and a man who does the same because he believes the government will pay him a million dollars for doing it. Who do you think is inherently good between the two?

johnydon22:


Oh yes exactly the point i needed pass across... We are all capable of great evil and great good.. it is the choices we make that determines what we do.

Take me for example ; I rape, I steal, I kill, I rob as much i as i want and the much i want is 0 (zero).

So are you saying you have never done something bad that you didn't want to do?

johnydon22:


Lol even if that something is just an idea? Its still same as being good for nothing...

Mind you were talking about reward and punishment tho

So something can be the same as nothing?