Emperor4God:


[size=14pt]I agree with you that niether allah nor zues nor shiva can make you good.

People naturally are wicked, so the natural thing for people to be is evil.

Genesis 6:5
And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth,
and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
[/size]

[size=14pt]ONLY THE BLOOD OF JESUS CAN MAKE A MAN GOOD.
WITHOUT THE BLOOD OF JESUS WE ARE ALL DOOMED.


Romans 5 (KJV)
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that,
while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then,
being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
[/size]

Acekidc4:
A frnd of My Dad who is a Religion Philosopher was arguing with my Dad n some of their frnds that being an Atheist does not mean"anything goes"- infact, quite the opposite. What do you think? Can Morality be Independent of GOD? Can people who don't believe in GOD still be as"Good" as those who do? What govern your own decision about whether and how to act Ethically?

I personally gather that many people believe that Atheism implies Nihilism- that rejecting GOD means rejecting Morality. A person who denies GOD, they reason must be, if not actively Evil, at least indifferent to considerations of Right n Wrong.

Now to my questions Nairalander's.
(1)Where does Morality comes from?
(2)What guides your thinking about how to act?
(3)Do you choose to act Morally mostly because of the promise of Reward or the threat of Punishment- from GOD or from some other Authority. Do you agree contrary to what some believe, living your life ethically is even more important if you are an Atheist, since if you do something Morally Reprehensible there is no God to forgive you, and the only value your life has is the Choices you make?

Macof, Sukkot, Tallesty, Mizmycoli, Ymodulus, Seun, Xcapizt, pastorkun, Kay17, Joseph1013, Virginfinder, Truthman2012, Malvisguy212. Come oh!!! Abeg come contribute!!!

Image123:


Morality cannot be independent of God. Morality has to have absolutes. An independence of God means the loss of absolutes. We cannot afford to do just what we feel is good, because our feelings are different. There has to be a moral law giver, else in some cultures, it is good and okay to kill twins whilst in some other culture it is not okay. All humans are bad and a product of a fallen race. We are like files in a corrupt folder in a computer. No matter how useful or big or relevant the file is, it is still in a corrupt folder. It is corrupt. It needs an external help in the form of an up to date antivirus. We all need God to be good. Our good deeds do not make us good, they simply remain good deeds This is why the Bible calls our righteousness filthy rags, they are inadequate. so to be brief;
Morality comes from God, not from feeling.
God in conjunction with you should guide your thinking about how to act. These guide mine.
i am moral because of God mostly. There is no wrong in being moral because of the promise of Reward or the threat of Punishment. People have different motivations for doing things and God makes ample room for that. He provides rewards and threats too, you choose which motivates you better. Good parents and good governments also do likewise. There should be reward and there should be punishment. Being good for nothing should not be promoted or publicized or exalted above other reasons, without reason.

johnydon22:


You always manage to get words twisted. . . You asserted that doing good doesnt make someone good (i wonder) that only believing in god makes someone good... then i just made it clear to you that [size=20] Believing in any god or deity be it allah, yahweh, shiva, zeus doesnt make you good, your behaviour is what makes you good [/size] no more needs saying.

Image123:

You somehow manage to forget to answer my questions. Here they are.
-How do you arrive at these conclusions?

Image123:

-Why do you want or encourage me to be good for GOODNESS'sake?

Image123:

- Is it okay for me to be good for God's sake?

Acekidc4:
A frnd of My Dad who is a Religion Philosopher was arguing with my Dad n some of their frnds that being an Atheist does not mean"anything goes"- infact, quite the opposite. What do you think? Can Morality be Independent of GOD? Can people who don't believe in GOD still be as"Good" as those who do? What govern your own decision about whether and how to act Ethically?

I personally gather that many people believe that Atheism implies Nihilism- that rejecting GOD means rejecting Morality. A person who denies GOD, they reason must be, if not actively Evil, at least indifferent to considerations of Right n Wrong.

Now to my questions Nairalander's.
(1) Where does Morality come from?
(2) What guides your thinking about how to act?
(3) Do you choose to act Morally mostly because of the promise of Reward or the threat of Punishment- from GOD or from some other Authority. Do you agree contrary to what some believe, living your life ethically is even more important if you are an Atheist, since if you do something Morally Reprehensible there is no God to forgive you, and the only value your life has is the Choices you make?

Macof, Sukkot, Tallesty, Mizmycoli, Ymodulus, Seun, Xcapizt, pastorkun, Kay17, Joseph1013, Virginfinder, Truthman2012, Malvisguy212. Come oh!!! Abeg come contribute!!!

Can we be good without God? At first the answer to this question may seem so obvious that even to pose it arouses indignation. For while those of us who are Christian theists undoubtedly find in God a source of moral strength and resolve which enables us to live lives that are better than those we should live without Him, nevertheless it would seem arrogant and ignorant to claim that those who do not share a belief in God do not often live good moral lives—indeed, embarrassingly, lives that sometimes put our own to shame....

Today I want to argue that if God exists, then the objectivity of moral values, moral duties, and moral accountability is secured, but that in the absence of God, that is, if God does not exist, then morality is just a human convention, that is to say, morality is wholly subjective and non-binding. We might act in precisely the same ways that we do in fact act, but in the absence of God, such actions would no longer count as good (or evil), since if God does not exist, objective moral values do not exist. Thus, we cannot truly be good without God. On the other hand, if we do believe that moral values and duties are objective, that provides moral grounds for believing in God.....

. First, if atheism is true, objective moral values do not exist. If God does not exist, then what is the foundation for moral values? More particularly, what is the basis for the value of human beings? If God does not exist, then it is difficult to see any reason to think that human beings are special or that their morality is objectively true. Moreover, why think that we have any moral obligations to do anything? Who or what imposes any moral duties upon us...

If there is no God, then any ground for regarding the herd morality evolved by homo sapiens as objectively true seems to have been removed. After all, what is so special about human beings? They are just accidental by-products of nature which have evolved relatively recently on an infinitesimal speck of dust lost somewhere in a hostile and mindless universe and which are doomed to perish individually and collectively in a relatively short time. Some action, say, incest, may not be biologically or socially advantageous and so in the course of human evolution has become taboo; but there is on the atheistic view nothing really wrong about committing incest. If, as Kurtz states, “The moral principles that govern our behavior are rooted in habit and custom, feeling and fashion,”5 then the non-conformist who chooses to flout the herd morality is doing nothing more serious than acting unfashionably.....





Moreover, if atheism is true, there is no moral accountability for one’s actions. Even if there were objective moral values and duties under naturalism, they are irrelevant because there is no moral accountability. If life ends at the grave, it makes no difference whether one lives as a Stalin or as a saint. As the Russian writer Fyodor Dostoyevsky rightly said: “If there is no immortality, then all things are permitted.”7

The state torturers in Soviet prisons understood this all too well. Richard Wurmbrand reports,

The cruelty of atheism is hard to believe when man has no faith in the reward of good or the punishment of evil. There is no reason to be human. There is no restraint from the depths of evil which is in man. The Communist torturers often said, ‘There is no God, no hereafter, no punishment for evil. We can do what we wish.’ I have heard one torturer even say, ‘I thank God, in whom I don’t believe, that I have lived to this hour when I can express all the evil in my heart.’ He expressed it in unbelievable brutality and torture inflected on prisoners.....


In summary, theological meta-ethical foundations do seem to be necessary for morality. If God does not exist, then it is plausible to think that there are no objective moral values, that we have no moral duties, and that there is no moral accountability for how we live and act. The horror of such a morally neutral world is obvious. If, on the other hand, we hold, as it seems rational to do, that objective moral values and duties do exist, then we have good grounds for believing in the existence of God. In addition, we have powerful practical reasons for embracing theism in view of the morally bracing effects which belief in moral accountability produces. We cannot, then, truly be good without God; but if we can in some measure be good, then it follows that God exists.....



Read the full article here >> http://www.reasonablefaith.org/can-we-be-good-without-god

FrenchyL:
Very interesting write up. My answer to that is NO! This is simply because the natural man was born with the Adamic nature which is already corrupt before birth. You need to understand that man is a spirit, he has a soul and he lives in a body. The word of God says: that the heart of man is desperately wicked"; this simply means that anyman without a recreated human spirit, which gives him the nature of God, is a ticking time bomb. It is not about how good that person appears to be rather it is in his nature. I believe things from the biblical perspective which is the Truth of God's word. We can go on and on about this but no man can be good without God. Finally, it is not just a God thing but a Jesus Christ thing because until one accepts him as Lord and Savior, life is simply empty and very meaningless.

FrenchyL:
Very interesting write up. My answer to that is NO! This is simply because the natural man was born with the Adamic nature which is already corrupt before birth. You need to understand that man is a spirit, he has a soul and he lives in a body. The word of God says: that the heart of man is desperately wicked"; this simply means that anyman without a recreated human spirit, which gives him the nature of God, is a ticking time bomb. It is not about how good that person appears to be rather it is in his nature. I believe things from the biblical perspective which is the Truth of God's word. We can go on and on about this but no man can be good without God. Finally, it is not just a God thing but a Jesus Christ thing because until one accepts him as Lord and Savior, life is simply empty and very meaningless.

jmoore:

if God does not exist, then morality is just a
human convention, that is to say, morality is wholly subjective and non-
binding.

jmoore:
If God
does not exist, then what is the foundation for moral values

jmoore:

what is so special about human beings?

jmoore:
, if atheism is true, there is no moral accountability for one’s
actions

jmoore:

The cruelty of atheism is hard to believe when man has no faith in the
reward of good or the punishment of evil. There is no reason to be
human. There is no restraint from the depths of evil which is in man[/b[.

katme:


Go live for a year in Japan bro...

johnydon22:


Our morality comes from our humanity, by contrasting your feelings to that of others you will learn to be good towards all... The human nature is moral and good.

Our intellect guides our thinking and empathy guides our act... Morality do not depend on any book or creed. Those books too are also a product of humans and greatly influenced by their culture.
e.g- You do not need to rush and check in the bible or koran to check if stealing is good or bad, You know taking someone else's thing is not moral.

You do not need the bible or koran to tell you slavery and enslaving is bad even though both clearly never forbids it infact the two books endorsed it in a way.
So our morality stems from our humanity.. our intellect and empathy.

Like i have always tried to tell theists.. Goodness doesnt depend on reward or punishment.
If you are good because of the promise of heaven, you are only good because you want reward thereby you are only good for your own gain at the end.. We call it "Selfishness" and is that real goodness?

If you are good because of the threat of hell, you are only good because you fear hell therefore you are only good for you own gain at the end saving your own skin...its called "Selfishness" is that real goodness?

I that try to be good without expecting any reward or hoping to escape punishment and you that is good cus of reward or fear, Who really is moral?

Real goodness entails being good because you know it is right and want good to happen. cus you believe the earth and humans deserve goodness.

The idea of God was brought to make people not to accept responsible for their actions.
I am responsible for all my actions be it good or bad..

And this issue of forgiveness is that not a deceptive concept to rid people of their guilt?
Take for instance i stole from you, i regret my actions and come back to seek your forgiveness and return the item and you forgive thereby you already cleared your mind of it and it doesnt hurt anymore cus you already forgave me cus i came to you.

I stole from you, i regret my actions then i go to my room and mutter some prayers, come and out and say i am forgiven when you that i took your item is still hurting and doesnt even know i did it.

Which is forgiveness and which is moral?

We do not need forgiveness from any deity or gods we only need forgiveness from ourselves and one another..

Come and tender your own opinion on this

Adiwana:

Dude,if you understand eternal damnation,then you will see that you'll do everytin possible to escape it and God is not a concept.In the bible,once you sin,you will suffer for it.even if you are going to heaven the next minute,you will suffer for it.

Adiwana:

I believe you are an atheist,so gonna clear things up
1)the bible tells us that when we bring our gift b4 the altar,we should go and make peace with others then come back and present the gift.when you pray to God,he forgives you but requires you to go back and obtain forgiveness from the offended.

Adiwana:

2)Every christain preaches about heaven&hell.Christ gave us that responsibility.for eg you know that when you read,you got a first class.will you advise others not to read cos you want to be the only one with a first class?i dont understand your bases for argument here

johnydon22:


ok read my post again... people are naturally wicked, WTF is wrong with all these guys... which planet did you all come from

kay29000:


Yea, you definitely can be good without God...Think of Bill Gates , Warren Buffet, Kay29000 and all the good they have done in this world. They are all atheist, but morally upright people.

Amongst my friends, I am the only Atheist, but I am the one that people from outside looking in see as the "good guy"amongst them.

Most people have this orientation that if you don't believe in God, you have to be an evil person or a worshiper of the Devil. But that is far from the truth. I don't believe in Heaven or Hell...God or The Devil. But I do believe I am responsible for all my actions, and this is the moral compas I live by.

Why do I do Good even without religion? Cos doing good feels good, and also I know the laws that Govern this Universe. One of those Laws is...The Law of Cause and Effect- Nothing happens by chance...For evry action, there is an equal and opposite reaction...I.E You reap what you sow.

Knowing all these...Why would I need a pastor to tell me to do good? Why would I need religion to threathen me with hell before I do good?