johnydon22:


Nice one bro dont be surprised when he turns it upside down

They keep making wild and blind assertions that they can't demonstrate to be true.

We can never be good without God becos the bible says without God you can do nothing. God owns your life He can take it in less than a second. God is good

vccguy:
We can never be good without God becos the bible says without God you can do nothing. God owns your life He can take it in less than a second. God is good

You believe that one can never be good without God because A BOOK SAID SO, and not because you think so...
nice

My Questions:

Does being good in the absolute possible among humans?
do we ever have absolute control of being either?.

History has it that man has carnal and tendency/desirous for things good or bad based on pleasurable ends. Please help clear this...@Johndo

Acekidc4:
A frnd of My Dad who is a Religion Philosopher was arguing with my Dad n some of their frnds that being an Atheist does not mean"anything goes"- infact, quite the opposite. What do you think? Can Morality be Independent of GOD? Can people who don't believe in GOD still be as"Good" as those who do? What govern your own decision about whether and how to act Ethically?

I personally gather that many people believe that Atheism implies Nihilism- that rejecting GOD means rejecting Morality. A person who denies GOD, they reason must be, if not actively Evil, at least indifferent to considerations of Right n Wrong.

Now to my questions Nairalander's.
(1) Where does Morality come from?
(2) What guides your thinking about how to act?
(3) Do you choose to act Morally mostly because of the promise of Reward or the threat of Punishment- from GOD or from some other Authority. Do you agree contrary to what some believe, living your life ethically is even more important if you are an Atheist, since if you do something Morally Reprehensible there is no God to forgive you, and the only value your life has is the Choices you make?

Macof, Sukkot, Tallesty, Mizmycoli, Ymodulus, Seun, Xcapizt, pastorkun, Kay17, Joseph1013, Virginfinder, Truthman2012, Malvisguy212. Come oh!!! Abeg come contribute!!!

yes ofcourse.a person can be good without God but when he is dead, Satan will gladdingly welcome him at the entrance of hell.

dalaman:


Can you show me any value or moral system that wasn't created by man? Please show me one moral system that was created by God alone and not by man. Show me a moral system that was created by God alone without man in the picture. How does God make human life meaningful? Demonstrate that claim please. How is life meaningless without God. And which God by the way. Is the life of the christian more meaningful than that of the Hindu? Can you show that to be true? What about the life of the atheist? Is the life of a muslim better than that of an atheist? Can you demonstrate that to be true? How does God makes people's lives meaningful here on earth? Show me one moral system that God alone created, tell me why God created it and when he created it alone without human input.

before I get myself entangled in all this questions. human life is no more meaningful than that of other animals if there's no God. the meat you eat is killed no one complains, why is it ok to kill every other animals but wrong for one human to kill another human? have you thought about it, is it because we are so special or what. If God created humans, then every one has innate value and worth, violation of that is a crime against the person and the creator, knowing this the violator will be judged for his/her actions.

all those other questions are irrelevant to the point where trying to ash out here.

This is a NEW ORIGINAL FACTORY SMART KEY
FCC ID: M3N5WY8609 Part# 164-R8092

2011 2012 2013 2014
FORD EXPLORER
FORD EDGE
2013 2014
FORD TAURUS
FORD FLEX
FORD ESCAPE
FORD FOCUS
2011 2012 2013 2014
LINCOLN MKX
2013 2014
LINCOLN MKT
LINCOLN MKS


Abuja Office Suite 1& 2 Mangal Plaza Area 11 Garki
+2348037421100

PH office; Bob Izua Park, OluObasanjo Road Port Harcourt
Phone +2348029193550

Lagos Office : +2348137606444
www.carkeysnigeria.com

johnydon22:


The ancient Egyptian deity Horus also made such claims thousands of years before Jesus!

Cool! The question that needs to be answered is this: Where is Horus today? What positive impact does he offer his followers in this life and beyond?

johnydon22:
If you had read my post well you have seen where i stated Morality is a product of empathy, by taking the feelings of others into consideration in your deeds Nazi killing jews was certainly against empathy so how can it be moral in a universal scope? The ancient isrealites wiping entire cities, countries is not moral either and according to them yahweh told them to.


I think none needs being said more on this.. i think my point was clear enough

Now did you miss the part were i mentioned intellect? and am sure i never mentioned free will here i said Pure Will please dont change my words.

Call it whatever you deem fit.. you employ it or not is your choice
Nigeria is a nice big example of a religiously saturated society even with all the psychological fear and control utilized by religion, is still this... thanks for bringing that up.

that's the problem, you assume everyone think the same. which is not so again history has shown people came up with pretty crazy ideas for morality, you said goodness promotes well-being of a society, the Nazis believe that was the greater good, let bring it home, Nigeria in Calabar, they killed twins, they believed it was good didn't they? and so many other cultures around the world, the bible says we have a conscience we do know what is right but we don't always do it, the 10 comm. serves as an objective plum line cutting through all cultures to judge our actions against.

MrEdimulo82:
My Questions:

Does being good in the absolute possible among humans?

Thank you my brother for the questions... Like i have mentioned many times over nobody is born good or evil but we all have instincts for both. . . So when these two instincts are in us it falls down to the way you choose between them. . . Take for instance the world is deeply religious and from the many posts we get here they believe that absolute goodness comes from God, but why is it we have not seen any absolutely good person... Is something wrong somewhere?

MrEdimulo82:

do we ever have absolute control of being either?.

Humans have desires and emotions that greatly influence their decisions... taking this in mind is it possible to have absolute control.?

MrEdimulo82:

History has it that man has carnal and tendency/desirous for things good or bad based on pleasurable ends. Please help clear this...@Johndo

Yes man's desires greatly influence man's deeds but when taken to the contest of morality Our good must not be divorced from the good of others and the collective good of the society.

johnydon22:

Lol So christians dont kill, my brother i wonder which planet you are in.
If we start counting the day to day crimes committed by Christians, just here in Nigeria nairaland will be filled up.... the killings and robbing, seriously you can do better.

Christ is beyond myth as much as Hercules, Perseus are beyond myth my friend.

We have to recognize the fact that atheists are a minority in the world, therefore , we can't equate the number of atrocities committed with that of 1 billion church goers. There a principles that must be met before being an atheist, so are there principles before you can be called a Christian. You must obey the 12 commandments, you must follow all Jesus' principles word for word. Any nation with church goers, though may be sinful but won't be anything compared to when they lose the Christian values e.g USA. To prove that Christ is not a myth, we can read the Torah, old testament(which could not have been corrupted by Christians, though a lot argued that it was a maiden, not a virgin that was prophesied, but they are mutually inclusive) for confirmation and the fact that myth don't deal with history.

Psalms 2:7
Fulfilled
Luke 1:32 , Luke 1:35
As the descendant of Abraham
Genesis 17:7 ; Genesis 22:18
Fulfilled
Galatians 3:16
As the descendant of Isaac
Genesis 21:12
Fulfilled
Hebrews 11:17
As the descendant of David
Psalms 132:11 ; Jeremiah 23:5
Fulfilled
Acts 13:23 ; Romans 1:3
His coming at a set time
Genesis 49:10; Daniel 9:24 , Daniel 9:25
Fulfilled
Luke 2:1
His being born a virgin
Isaiah 7:14
Fulfilled
Matthew 1:22 , Matthew 1:23 ; Luke 2:7
His being called Immanuel
Isaiah 7:14
Fulfilled
Matthew 1:22 , Matthew 1:23
His being born in Bethlehem of Judea
Micah 5:2
Fulfilled
Matthew 2:1 ; Luke 2:4
His miracles
Isaiah 35:5 , Isaiah 35:6
Fulfilled
Matthew 11:4 ; John 11:47
His rejection by his brethren
Psalms 69:8 ; Isaiah 63:3
Fulfilled
John 1:11 , John 7:3
His being a stone of stumbling to the Jews
Isaiah 8:14
Fulfilled
Romans 9:32 ; 1 Peter 1:8
His being sold for thirty pieces silver
Zechariah 11:12
Fulfilled
Matthew 26:15
His price being given for the potters field
Zechariah 11:13
Fulfilled
Matthew 27:7 You can read these verses on biblehub.com. You don't want to believe these but you believe the earth is rotating under your feet and there is global warming.

tevinsolt:

before I get myself entangled in all this questions. human life is no more meaningful than that of other animals if there's no God. the meat you eat is killed no one complains, why is it ok to kill every other animals but wrong for one human to kill another human? have you thought about it, is it because we are so special or what. If God created humans, then every one has innate value and worth, violation of that is a crime against the person and the creator, knowing this the violator will be judged for his/her actions.

all those other questions are irrelevant to the point where trying to ash out here.

Morality is simply a human construct that is why only humans abide by it fully. Some animals can show empathy and some rudimentary form of morality. We are social animals and have a brain that is greater than that of all other animals when it comes to social living. Humans had to learn and create what ever values and customs they chose to live by. That is what history and anthropology has shown us. Or system of morality had to evolve through thousands of years to what it is now. No God has ever created any moral system for humans. Humans did that and use God and what ever form of religion or government they created as an enforcing mechanism. All moral codes are man made. until you can show any God creating a moral system alone without human input then you have no reason to say that God is the basis for any morality. By the way different Gods have different moral principles, so which moral principle are we even talking about?

tevinsolt:

before I get myself entangled in all this questions. human life is no more meaningful than that of other animals if there's no God. the meat you eat is killed no one complains, why is it ok to kill every other animals but wrong for one human to kill another human? have you thought about it, is it because we are so special or what. If God created humans, then every one has innate value and worth, violation of that is a crime against the person and the creator, knowing this the violator will be judged for his/her actions.

all those other questions are irrelevant to the point where trying to ash out here.

According to you human life is only special because God made it, forgetting that this God also made the animals so it makes them special too which means you have no right what so ever to kill any.

Humans possess high intellect that is what drives our thinking, It is in our intellect that we derive the concept of empathy.

So thats how we know that killing our fellow human is wrong cus we wouldnt want any to kill us too.

(Was abraham right or wrong to be willing to sacrifice isaac?)
that is what religious good is all about, doing what you are told no matter what is right.

Can you drive a car without tire? Anyway, u can't do any good without God cuz every good things come from him. We can't seperate ourself from him only if u are choose to be rule by satan.

tevinsolt:


that's the problem, you assume everyone think the same. which is not so again history has shown people came up with pretty crazy ideas for morality, you said goodness promotes well-being of a society, the Nazis believe that was the greater good, let bring it home, Nigeria in Calabar, they killed twins, they believed it was good didn't they? and so many other cultures around the world, the bible says we have a conscience we do know what is right but we don't always do it, the 10 comm. serves as an objective plum line cutting through all cultures to judge our actions against.

Cultures influence greatly in the human society, Oh yes Nazis Believed it was, So did the jews when they were killing and dashing infants against rocks, So did the calabar people... But this does not change the fact that it is wrong and we all know it goes against empathy towards the victims.

The 10 commandments if that is your yardstick for measuring morality is greatly disappointing... I do not see where it said do not enslaved, Do not make wars etc... You and do not need to check the 10 commandments to see if it is ok to steal, even tho it is not in the 10 commandments you and i still find it wrong to enslave anybody.

The ugarit text from whence these commandments were hewn accommodates many more laws against other vices the 10 commandment didnt..
Still yet it doesnt change the fact that both are all works of humans.

vccguy:
We can never be good without God becos the bible says without God you can do nothing. God owns your life He can take it in less than a second. God is good

Datz a big lie there, Bill gates and many other unbelievers are doing Great things without knowing any kind of God!! How abt dat?

My father stoped going to church bkx of the many ills pastors perpetrate. But that doesn't stop him from doing good till he died. u can b an atheist and also b better than a believer. it depends how u were trained wen young and the influence u received while growing together with how u understand life.

vccguy:
We can never be good without God becos the bible says without God you can do nothing. God owns your life He can take it in less than a second. God is good

Datz a big lie there, Bill gates and many other unbelievers are doing Great things without knowing any kind of God!! How abt dat?
Must I knw any kind of God b4 I attain greatness in Life, absolutely NO.

Acekidc4:


Datz a big lie there, Bill gates and many other unbelievers are doing Great things without knowing any kind of God!! How abt dat?

u r right guy not bkx u mentioned bill gate and some other unbealiver doing good but bkx it is 100% possible. it depend on how u C life and understand life.

johnydon22:


You believe that one can never be good without God because A BOOK SAID SO, and not because you think so...
nice

Don't mind him, he is Delusional!!

I'v said it on this forum before..,Religion is a kind of psychiatric meant to check people who are not morally upright,people who know what is good and bad but still go ahead to do what is bad.,there would be nothing like religion if all of humanity were living in peace,love,kindness and moral discipline.
If i should give freely to the poor and less privilegde out of pure love and compassion without expecting anything in return,my christian friend might only give becos his "God" said so,or becos he's expecting a reward from his God and not neccesarily out of pure love.
I can't imagine myself paying tithe to the church becos "God" said so,instead i would rather use that money to pay for someones health care.
I don't see how paying tithe becos God said so makes any sense to me.

johnydon22:


The story of cain an?bel is still a human constructed fabricated story..

Originally a kenite fable adopted by the jews ...

So humans do it all, fabricate and form stories to fit any idea they concieve

Do u believe in god

Etetejake:



u r right guy not bkx u mentioned bill gate and some other unbealiver doing good but bkx it is 100% possible. it depend on how u C life and understand life.

Thank you for dat sensible Comment!!

Etetejake:



u r right guy not bkx u mentioned bill gate and some other unbealiver doing good but bkx it is 100% possible. it depend on how u C life and understand life.

well put bro..

danjumakolo:


Do u believe in god

They are thousands of God(s) believd by humans, i for one believe in none cus i find that concept implausible and archaic.

I choose to live in reality!!!

FrenchyL:


Cool! The question that needs to be answered is this: Where is Horus today? What positive impact does he offer his followers in this life and beyond?

The horus fable greatly influenced the egyptain society for thousands of years...

This Jesus concept is still a modern fable compared to that of horus.
So if it stays as long as the horus concept have it will too slip down the drain of human history and nothing and nothing more just like horus.

If this horus fable was directly brought to africans by the missionaries, am sure you will still feel the same way for it as you do now for the Jesus fable.

Like i have always tried to tell theists.. Goodness doesnt depend on reward or punishment.
If you are good because of the promise of heaven, you are only good because you want reward thereby you are only good for your own gain at the end.. We call it "Selfishness" and is that real goodness?

If you are good because of the threat of hell, you are only good because you fear hell therefore you are only good for you own gain at the end saving your own skin...its called "Selfishness" is that real goodness?

I that try to be good without expecting any reward or hoping to escape punishment and you that is good cus of reward or fear, Who really is moral?

Real goodness entails being good because you know it is right and want good to happen. cus you believe the earth and humans deserve goodness.


Most intelligent comment

unmask:
Like i have always tried to tell theists.. Goodness doesnt depend on reward or punishment.
If you are good because of the promise of heaven, you are only good because you want reward thereby you are only good for your own gain at the end.. We call it "Selfishness" and is that real goodness?

If you are good because of the threat of hell, you are only good because you fear hell therefore you are only good for you own gain at the end saving your own skin...its called "Selfishness" is that real goodness?

I that try to be good without expecting any reward or hoping to escape punishment and you that is good cus of reward or fear, Who really is moral?

Real goodness entails being good because you know it is right and want good to happen. cus you believe the earth and humans deserve goodness.


Most intelligent comment

Am a humanist bro!!!

Acekidc4:


Thank you for dat sensible Comment!!

THANKS BRO

Ahhhh! If you ask me, na who I go ask?
Those who claim to know God, in fact sit at his right hand, how good are they? Some of them have wickedness running in their blood streams. Being good has nothing to do with God, it's a thing of the heart and conscience

johnydon22:


The horus fable greatly influenced the egyptain society for thousands of years...

This Jesus concept is still a modern fable compared to that of horus.
So if it stays as long as the horus concept have it will too slip down the drain of human history and nothing and nothing more just like horus.

If this horus fable was directly brought to africans by the missionaries, am sure you will still feel the same way for it as you do now for the Jesus fable.

Very interesting! So what kind of words does horus give his people? Does he give them certain powers ? And where is he today? Dead or Alive? If he is dead, then when did he die? If he is alive, then where is he today? How relevant is he in today's world?

I also need to ask you if you believe in Jesus Christ? Just for the record.

FrenchyL:


Very interesting! So what kind of words does horus give his people? Does he give them certain powers ? And where is he today? Dead or Alive? If he is dead, then when did he die? If he is alive, then where is he today? How relevant is he in today's world?

I also need to ask you if you believe in Jesus Christ? Just for the record.

Read the post again and again till you get it.